Knicks · Okafor for such a ridiculous price could be a big winner of a deal (page 1)

Whatever anyone wanst to say negative about Okafor--they said worse about Enes Kanter. Okafor has more talent than Kanter--who cost us 17-18mm per.

I do not like what I have seen from Willy although its certainly not all of his fault. Okafor is a good piece for a future 2.

We already have one enigma in Biz... having 2 is too much.
You not trade out proven star and not trade for proven Barganis, especially high 2-d rounder...

Okafor is nowhere near the player Kanter is. Kanter is an elite rebounder and an adequate enough shooter, passer, and defender to remain a positive impact player. Remember, Kanter was the 3rd pick in the draft too. If i am not mistaken, Okafor has been one of the least impactful players in the entire NBA the last couple of seasons. Even if there is still upside there, it would likely be no better than simply trying to minimize his negative overall impact. This guy can put up points in a hurry, but is otherwise a bad player. Willy offers more upside in terms of overall impact. I think you have to trust that there is a reason no one is willing to give a 2nd rounder for Okafor.

I think no one wants to trade for him because he's Gonna get waived anyway... Okafor is in the exact same boat Willy is in. Super talent but something missing in the charecters department. I think Okafor is legit embarrassed and has a chip on his shoulder. He got into better physical shape dio he cares. Willy just doesn't seem to care on his end.

EnySpree wrote:I think no one wants to trade for him because he's Gonna get waived anyway... Okafor is in the exact same boat Willy is in. Super talent but something missing in the charecters department. I think Okafor is legit embarrassed and has a chip on his shoulder. He got into better physical shape dio he cares. Willy just doesn't seem to care on his end.

The thing that both Willy and Okafor are missing is Warrior attitude.
The hunger to be the best at all cost every minute player steps out on the court.
Okafor was around long enough to conclude that this is just not there.
Willy still have time to get angry, stop being a big kid, and became a man.
Mediterranean people are more laid back type... they need time to wake up this bull in them.
Need to let him run with the bulls zo...

arkrud wrote:

EnySpree wrote:I think no one wants to trade for him because he's Gonna get waived anyway... Okafor is in the exact same boat Willy is in. Super talent but something missing in the charecters department. I think Okafor is legit embarrassed and has a chip on his shoulder. He got into better physical shape dio he cares. Willy just doesn't seem to care on his end.

The thing that both Willy and Okafor are missing is Warrior attitude.
The hunger to be the best at all cost every minute player steps out on the court.
Okafor was around long enough to conclude that this is just not there.
Willy still have time to get angry, stop being a big kid, and became a man.
Mediterranean people are more laid back type... they need time to wake up this bull in them.
Need to let him run with the bulls zo...

I think Okafor was hurt by being drafted by a team he didn't fit. Philly should have traded the pick. If it wasn't for Embiid and Simmons, the "process" would be considered a joke. There's more to team building than collecting assets. Just ask Isiah. As for Okafor he doesn't make sense for us now. You want to bring him in so he can pull here like he's doing I'm Philly?

EnySpree wrote:I think no one wants to trade for him because he's Gonna get waived anyway... Okafor is in the exact same boat Willy is in. Super talent but something missing in the charecters department. I think Okafor is legit embarrassed and has a chip on his shoulder. He got into better physical shape dio he cares. Willy just doesn't seem to care on his end.

Just curious why you think Okafor and Willy are similar in the character dept. Okafor has had some issues pop up over the last couple of years and has never seemed connected to his teammates etc. So i get why anyone would say he has character issues. Willy generally seems well liked, works hard, and other than responding to the media about wanting more playing time, doesn't seem like a headcase or immature in any way. At least from what i can see.

arkrud wrote:

EnySpree wrote:I think no one wants to trade for him because he's Gonna get waived anyway... Okafor is in the exact same boat Willy is in. Super talent but something missing in the charecters department. I think Okafor is legit embarrassed and has a chip on his shoulder. He got into better physical shape dio he cares. Willy just doesn't seem to care on his end.

The thing that both Willy and Okafor are missing is Warrior attitude.
The hunger to be the best at all cost every minute player steps out on the court.
Okafor was around long enough to conclude that this is just not there.
Willy still have time to get angry, stop being a big kid, and became a man.
Mediterranean people are more laid back type... they need time to wake up this bull in them.
Need to let him run with the bulls zo...

Willy is 23 years old and has been playing professional basketball now for 5-7 years now. You would think thus wouldn't be any issue for him. Kristaps and Frank don't have that problem. Kuz probably didn't have it that's why he isn't on the team. Okafor took on a bunch of dudes in a street fight by himself last year. His dad is also a certified hood dude. So with him I think its laziness. Okafor at least will be aggressive to score. Willy plays like he's in the driveway with his little cousins trying not to hurt anyone

Knixkik wrote:

EnySpree wrote:I think no one wants to trade for him because he's Gonna get waived anyway... Okafor is in the exact same boat Willy is in. Super talent but something missing in the charecters department. I think Okafor is legit embarrassed and has a chip on his shoulder. He got into better physical shape dio he cares. Willy just doesn't seem to care on his end.

Just curious why you think Okafor and Willy are similar in the character dept. Okafor has had some issues pop up over the last couple of years and has never seemed connected to his teammates etc. So i get why anyone would say he has character issues. Willy generally seems well liked, works hard, and other than responding to the media about wanting more playing time, doesn't seem like a headcase or immature in any way. At least from what i can see.

Charecter on the court....

Dont believe Okafor has Kanter's motor, isnt hungry for success like Kanter. Still, if you put Okafor on the Spurs with Pops. An old school kind of coach (like coach K) with a pedigree, he might respond.

Okafor appears to need some structure, sure didn't have that in Philly. Didn't help himself either with his club stuff.

EnySpree wrote:I think no one wants to trade for him because he's Gonna get waived anyway... Okafor is in the exact same boat Willy is in. Super talent but something missing in the charecters department. I think Okafor is legit embarrassed and has a chip on his shoulder. He got into better physical shape dio he cares. Willy just doesn't seem to care on his end.

Id be willing to give them a future 2 in 2021 or something. Its a steal--the guy was a #3 pick 2 years ago and avg 17-7 when healthy. He looked good beginning of year. If he practices and trains hard--he can be better than Kanter with ease--he gives us that 6-11 265 pounder who can protect KP. This is a no brainer to me--what is the odds of a 2nd rounder being better than OK4---none. You either believe a guy will work hard or not--I do not see this as anything but pure upside of a deal. Yes he is unrestricted BUT you get him in here--hes on the team. Kanter asks for 85mm Im not paying that--ill pay Ok4 a 1/3 of that.

Also I know some people will say why do you care about the frontcourt anyway? Potentially Kanter and Oquinn are gonzo--I like Ok4 as Kanters back up-- and Willy can stay 3.

Oquinn Beasley Lee Sessions all for sale.

BRIGGS wrote:

EnySpree wrote:I think no one wants to trade for him because he's Gonna get waived anyway... Okafor is in the exact same boat Willy is in. Super talent but something missing in the charecters department. I think Okafor is legit embarrassed and has a chip on his shoulder. He got into better physical shape dio he cares. Willy just doesn't seem to care on his end.

Id be willing to give them a future 2 in 2021 or something. Its a steal--the guy was a #3 pick 2 years ago and avg 17-7 when healthy. He looked good beginning of year. If he practices and trains hard--he can be better than Kanter with ease--he gives us that 6-11 265 pounder who can protect KP. This is a no brainer to me--what is the odds of a 2nd rounder being better than OK4---none. You either believe a guy will work hard or not--I do not see this as anything but pure upside of a deal. Yes he is unrestricted BUT you get him in here--hes on the team. Kanter asks for 85mm Im not paying that--ill pay Ok4 a 1/3 of that.

Also I know some people will say why do you care about the frontcourt anyway? Potentially Kanter and Oquinn are gonzo--I like Ok4 as Kanters back up-- and Willy can stay 3.

Oquinn Beasley Lee Sessions all for sale.

BRIGGS wrote:Whatever anyone wanst to say negative about Okafor--they said worse about Enes Kanter. Okafor has more talent than Kanter--who cost us 17-18mm per.

I do not like what I have seen from Willy although its certainly not all of his fault. Okafor is a good piece for a future 2.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

"There are only a few players in the NBA who are worse defenders than Enes Kanter in the pivot. Maybe so few you could count them on one hand. You managed to find one of maybe a handful of pivots actually WORSE than Kanter on defense.

Okafor

- Is a gigantic @sshole. His team mates hate him. His coaches hate him. His front office hates him. Many of his local fans hate him. He's a massive character risk

- He's lazy and just doesn't give a sh*t. The dude just does not care. We are talking Eddy Curry/Andrew Bynum/Erick Dampier/Andres Biedriens/Greg Ostertag/Bargs level "I just don't give a sh*t, but let me keep cashing checks"

- Is a zero on defense. I mean zero. Zero defensive IQ. Zero in close contact. Zero for rebounding. Zero on the pick and roll. Zero for team defense. Zero as a help defender. Zero at defending the rim. Zero. Zero. Zero.

- Can't space the floor offensively. Has an elite back to the basket tool set, but is a player who hurts your team just by being on the floor.

- Crappy passer. ( A byproduct of don't care/don't try/screw you/f**k you, give me another check, because he was actually competent at it in college)

- ....to bring in a guy who is a lockerroom and media distraction, a sulker and lazy with a bad attitude who will cry to the press openly. Who will also chew up minutes from both Zinger and Kanter. Because, yes, the Knick need yet ANOTHER pivot who can't defend the rim, can't play defense and clogs the floor spacing.

....to take in an @sshole that the team would have to likely overpay at some point, to be a long term @sshole on the roster.

Why is Okafor NOT getting minutes in Philly. And don't say a logjam of talent there. He's not getting minutes because he's a very limited player who doesn't give a sh*t and who is locker room poison and a gigantic steaming @sshole to boot.

.... wants him if he's close to free for cost. As a flier. No one is giving up real assets for him because Philly has tried to trade him a long time, and NO ONE ELSE WANTS HIM.

Okafor has an interesting low post tool set. Not production, but a raw TOOL SET. His footwork is pretty good when his back is to the basket. All his other fundamentals though are completely shot. Which is why NO ONE ELSE WANTS HIM EXCEPT FOR NEARLY FREE AND NO ONE ELSE WANTS TO TRADE FOR HIM, EXCEPT FOR NEARLY FREE.

How can someone watch as much basketball as you do, and have no actual conception of fundamental concepts like rim protection, floor spacing, sunk costs, opportunity costs, cost control, positional value, and on and on and on."

No thank you, he is not NBA player, maybe he needs very good shrink to help him

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Whatever anyone wanst to say negative about Okafor--they said worse about Enes Kanter. Okafor has more talent than Kanter--who cost us 17-18mm per.

I do not like what I have seen from Willy although its certainly not all of his fault. Okafor is a good piece for a future 2.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=57478&page=3

"There are only a few players in the NBA who are worse defenders than Enes Kanter in the pivot. Maybe so few you could count them on one hand. You managed to find one of maybe a handful of pivots actually WORSE than Kanter on defense.

Okafor

- Is a gigantic @sshole. His team mates hate him. His coaches hate him. His front office hates him. Many of his local fans hate him. He's a massive character risk

- He's lazy and just doesn't give a sh*t. The dude just does not care. We are talking Eddy Curry/Andrew Bynum/Erick Dampier/Andres Biedriens/Greg Ostertag/Bargs level "I just don't give a sh*t, but let me keep cashing checks"

- Is a zero on defense. I mean zero. Zero defensive IQ. Zero in close contact. Zero for rebounding. Zero on the pick and roll. Zero for team defense. Zero as a help defender. Zero at defending the rim. Zero. Zero. Zero.

- Can't space the floor offensively. Has an elite back to the basket tool set, but is a player who hurts your team just by being on the floor.

- Crappy passer. ( A byproduct of don't care/don't try/screw you/f**k you, give me another check, because he was actually competent at it in college)

- ....to bring in a guy who is a lockerroom and media distraction, a sulker and lazy with a bad attitude who will cry to the press openly. Who will also chew up minutes from both Zinger and Kanter. Because, yes, the Knick need yet ANOTHER pivot who can't defend the rim, can't play defense and clogs the floor spacing.

....to take in an @sshole that the team would have to likely overpay at some point, to be a long term @sshole on the roster.

Why is Okafor NOT getting minutes in Philly. And don't say a logjam of talent there. He's not getting minutes because he's a very limited player who doesn't give a sh*t and who is locker room poison and a gigantic steaming @sshole to boot.

.... wants him if he's close to free for cost. As a flier. No one is giving up real assets for him because Philly has tried to trade him a long time, and NO ONE ELSE WANTS HIM.

Okafor has an interesting low post tool set. Not production, but a raw TOOL SET. His footwork is pretty good when his back is to the basket. All his other fundamentals though are completely shot. Which is why NO ONE ELSE WANTS HIM EXCEPT FOR NEARLY FREE AND NO ONE ELSE WANTS TO TRADE FOR HIM, EXCEPT FOR NEARLY FREE.

How can someone watch as much basketball as you do, and have no actual conception of fundamental concepts like rim protection, floor spacing, sunk costs, opportunity costs, cost control, positional value, and on and on and on."

TT you have post after post killing Kanter--guess what---theyd be all wrong. Same thing w OK4--hes a steal with a 2nd rounder and a low cost asset that we can give 50-60 games of play to.

A second rounder for Okafor is nothing. The Knicks just have too many fives. It still might be worth it.

CrushAlot wrote:A second rounder for Okafor is nothing. The Knicks just have too many fives. It still might be worth it.

Yeah, he's no favorite of mine, but on the talent/youth/upside alone, I think you gotta do it.

EnySpree wrote:I think no one wants to trade for him because he's Gonna get waived anyway... Okafor is in the exact same boat Willy is in. Super talent but something missing in the charecters department. I think Okafor is legit embarrassed and has a chip on his shoulder. He got into better physical shape dio he cares. Willy just doesn't seem to care on his end.

I agree with Briggs. It’s early in the game for both Okafor and Wily and both can develop. I don’t know anything about their characters as little has been published. Both have consider potential.

CrushAlot wrote:A second rounder for Okafor is nothing. The Knicks just have too many fives. It still might be worth it.

My bet is people would be shocked on how good he would be with KP. It also opens up other potential moves. I once thought the guy was the 2nd coming of a version of Tim Duncan. The guy would still be the same age as Duncan coming into the nBA--hes 21?

Im well aware that we have to focus on the guard/wing position--but I personally couldnt pass it up. Its the same sentiment we heard with Kanter

BRIGGS wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:A second rounder for Okafor is nothing. The Knicks just have too many fives. It still might be worth it.

My bet is people would be shocked on how good he would be with KP. It also opens up other potential moves. I once thought the guy was the 2nd coming of a version of Tim Duncan. The guy would still be the same age as Duncan coming into the nBA--hes 21?

Im well aware that we have to focus on the guard/wing position--but I personally couldnt pass it up. Its the same sentiment we heard with Kanter

Unlike Willy, Okafor isn't tied up for a couple of years. He can simply move to more desirable situation at the end of the year. We need to settle our current situation first before we consider adding more projects. Why would Okafor want to sit on the bench for us when he can already do that in Philly. Trading a 2 would just be a waste of an asset. I could see it if we were able to flip a few of our 5s in the process. We already have a young reclamation project to worry about.

The problem is he is a FA after this season. I think he will want a lot of money to resign and someone will give it to him.