Knicks · Okafor for such a ridiculous price could be a big winner of a deal (page 3)

HofstraBBall wrote:May agree about buying low and selling high. However, would have to figure out to do with all the other centers taking up space. Second rounder would be worth it but think Philly would want more.

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:May agree about buying low and selling high. However, would have to figure out to do with all the other centers taking up space. Second rounder would be worth it but think Philly would want more.

I think Philly would be happy to get anything back at this point. This is like the time we gave up a 1 for Bargnani when there was a good chance they were going to release him.

What exactly would be wrong with sending oquinn to philly with a #2 for ok afore and give jag I'll that back up c position for the next 60 games? Heck u can buy a 2-- absolute no brainer

BRIGGS wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:May agree about buying low and selling high. However, would have to figure out to do with all the other centers taking up space. Second rounder would be worth it but think Philly would want more.

I think Philly would be happy to get anything back at this point. This is like the time we gave up a 1 for Bargnani when there was a good chance they were going to release him.

What exactly would be wrong with sending oquinn to philly with a #2 for ok afore and give jag I'll that back up c position for the next 60 games? Heck u can buy a 2-- absolute no brainer

EnySpree wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

EnySpree wrote:I think no one wants to trade for him because he's Gonna get waived anyway... Okafor is in the exact same boat Willy is in. Super talent but something missing in the charecters department. I think Okafor is legit embarrassed and has a chip on his shoulder. He got into better physical shape dio he cares. Willy just doesn't seem to care on his end.

Id be willing to give them a future 2 in 2021 or something. Its a steal--the guy was a #3 pick 2 years ago and avg 17-7 when healthy. He looked good beginning of year. If he practices and trains hard--he can be better than Kanter with ease--he gives us that 6-11 265 pounder who can protect KP. This is a no brainer to me--what is the odds of a 2nd rounder being better than OK4---none. You either believe a guy will work hard or not--I do not see this as anything but pure upside of a deal. Yes he is unrestricted BUT you get him in here--hes on the team. Kanter asks for 85mm Im not paying that--ill pay Ok4 a 1/3 of that.

Also I know some people will say why do you care about the frontcourt anyway? Potentially Kanter and Oquinn are gonzo--I like Ok4 as Kanters back up-- and Willy can stay 3.

Oquinn Beasley Lee Sessions all for sale.

Briggs: how dare you bring a common sense approach to the issue. Only Mills and Perry know how much they’re willing to pay for KAnters services and he’s playing hard, above his career performance, knowing he’s being contemplated by other teams as well. He’s probably toast and OQuinn has curb appeal as well. Given this scenario, it leaves us with Wily (still poor defensively)and Noah, who has been written about exhaustively. Given the richness of 5s in this years draft, do you think that Ayers,Begley or Bamba are better alternatives to Okafor? Cheaper with better upside.

BRIGGS wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:May agree about buying low and selling high. However, would have to figure out to do with all the other centers taking up space. Second rounder would be worth it but think Philly would want more.

I think Philly would be happy to get anything back at this point. This is like the time we gave up a 1 for Bargnani when there was a good chance they were going to release him.

What exactly would be wrong with sending oquinn to philly with a #2 for ok afore and give jag I'll that back up c position for the next 60 games? Heck u can buy a 2-- absolute no brainer

I'd like to think that we can do better for KOQ and a 2nd rounder. Like maybe find an upgrade at PG, which could get us back on track for the playoffs (not necessarily my goal but the FO would clearly prefer.)

TripleThreat wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Whatever anyone wanst to say negative about Okafor--they said worse about Enes Kanter. Okafor has more talent than Kanter--who cost us 17-18mm per.

I do not like what I have seen from Willy although its certainly not all of his fault. Okafor is a good piece for a future 2.

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topi...

"There are only a few players in the NBA who are worse defenders than Enes Kanter in the pivot. Maybe so few you could count them on one hand. You managed to find one of maybe a handful of pivots actually WORSE than Kanter on defense.

Okafor

- Is a gigantic @sshole. His team mates hate him. His coaches hate him. His front office hates him. Many of his local fans hate him. He's a massive character risk

- He's lazy and just doesn't give a sh*t. The dude just does not care. We are talking Eddy Curry/Andrew Bynum/Erick Dampier/Andres Biedriens/Greg Ostertag/Bargs level "I just don't give a sh*t, but let me keep cashing checks"

- Is a zero on defense. I mean zero. Zero defensive IQ. Zero in close contact. Zero for rebounding. Zero on the pick and roll. Zero for team defense. Zero as a help defender. Zero at defending the rim. Zero. Zero. Zero.

- Can't space the floor offensively. Has an elite back to the basket tool set, but is a player who hurts your team just by being on the floor.

- Crappy passer. ( A byproduct of don't care/don't try/screw you/f**k you, give me another check, because he was actually competent at it in college)

- ....to bring in a guy who is a lockerroom and media distraction, a sulker and lazy with a bad attitude who will cry to the press openly. Who will also chew up minutes from both Zinger and Kanter. Because, yes, the Knick need yet ANOTHER pivot who can't defend the rim, can't play defense and clogs the floor spacing.

....to take in an @sshole that the team would have to likely overpay at some point, to be a long term @sshole on the roster.

Why is Okafor NOT getting minutes in Philly. And don't say a logjam of talent there. He's not getting minutes because he's a very limited player who doesn't give a sh*t and who is locker room poison and a gigantic steaming @sshole to boot.

.... wants him if he's close to free for cost. As a flier. No one is giving up real assets for him because Philly has tried to trade him a long time, and NO ONE ELSE WANTS HIM.

Okafor has an interesting low post tool set. Not production, but a raw TOOL SET. His footwork is pretty good when his back is to the basket. All his other fundamentals though are completely shot. Which is why NO ONE ELSE WANTS HIM EXCEPT FOR NEARLY FREE AND NO ONE ELSE WANTS TO TRADE FOR HIM, EXCEPT FOR NEARLY FREE.

How can someone watch as much basketball as you do, and have no actual conception of fundamental concepts like rim protection, floor spacing, sunk costs, opportunity costs, cost control, positional value, and on and on and on."

Yes. Great post. Fuck OK4.

I think that hes been discounted because hes not Joel Embiid. Young kid 21 years old picked 3rd who has already showed advanced bonafides.

IF Steve Mills and Perry start a culture of hard work--then we will see if Ok4 buys in--well well worth a 2 pick. The guy was picked 3rd two years ago--won a CHAMPIONSHIP as a freshmen and some people think they know his whole deal already--the kids 21.

BRIGGS wrote:Okafor scoring 31 before hitting 20 years old.

I think that hes been discounted because hes not Joel Embiid. Young kid 21 years old picked 3rd who has already showed advanced bonafides.

IF Steve Mills and Perry start a culture of hard work--then we will see if Ok4 buys in--well well worth a 2 pick. The guy was picked 3rd two years ago--won a CHAMPIONSHIP as a freshmen and some people think they know his whole deal already--the kids 21.

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Okafor scoring 31 before hitting 20 years old.

I think that hes been discounted because hes not Joel Embiid. Young kid 21 years old picked 3rd who has already showed advanced bonafides.

IF Steve Mills and Perry start a culture of hard work--then we will see if Ok4 buys in--well well worth a 2 pick. The guy was picked 3rd two years ago--won a CHAMPIONSHIP as a freshmen and some people think they know his whole deal already--the kids 21.

How many videos could be made of him giving up 31?
I like how MeloSG referred to this as speculative trading. If you keep giving up assets for these long-shot wild dreams, you'll quickly find yourself without any draft picks and 99% of the time with players who don't help their teams.

You like numbers bonn--what would you rather have pick 44 in the 2021 draft or the 3rd pick from the 2015?

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Okafor scoring 31 before hitting 20 years old.

I think that hes been discounted because hes not Joel Embiid. Young kid 21 years old picked 3rd who has already showed advanced bonafides.

IF Steve Mills and Perry start a culture of hard work--then we will see if Ok4 buys in--well well worth a 2 pick. The guy was picked 3rd two years ago--won a CHAMPIONSHIP as a freshmen and some people think they know his whole deal already--the kids 21.

How many videos could be made of him giving up 31?
I like how MeloSG referred to this as speculative trading. If you keep giving up assets for these long-shot wild dreams, you'll quickly find yourself without any draft picks and 99% of the time with players who don't help their teams.

Bonn, you were close, he was a +/- of -29.

http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/id/40...

martin wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Okafor scoring 31 before hitting 20 years old.

I think that hes been discounted because hes not Joel Embiid. Young kid 21 years old picked 3rd who has already showed advanced bonafides.

IF Steve Mills and Perry start a culture of hard work--then we will see if Ok4 buys in--well well worth a 2 pick. The guy was picked 3rd two years ago--won a CHAMPIONSHIP as a freshmen and some people think they know his whole deal already--the kids 21.

How many videos could be made of him giving up 31?
I like how MeloSG referred to this as speculative trading. If you keep giving up assets for these long-shot wild dreams, you'll quickly find yourself without any draft picks and 99% of the time with players who don't help their teams.

Bonn, you were close, he was a +/- of -29.

http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/id/40...

On a team that won 10-20 games each year the last 5 years. Its all relative. Whats his =- on the Spurs? And just to go further--look at our present team without Kanter--its gone to hll. Kanter the same guy who was poo poo unmercifully. The player(ok4) has talent that most other Cs do not--thats what Im looking at--hes strong skilled and my bet very humbled right now.

martin wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Okafor scoring 31 before hitting 20 years old.

I think that hes been discounted because hes not Joel Embiid. Young kid 21 years old picked 3rd who has already showed advanced bonafides.

IF Steve Mills and Perry start a culture of hard work--then we will see if Ok4 buys in--well well worth a 2 pick. The guy was picked 3rd two years ago--won a CHAMPIONSHIP as a freshmen and some people think they know his whole deal already--the kids 21.

How many videos could be made of him giving up 31?
I like how MeloSG referred to this as speculative trading. If you keep giving up assets for these long-shot wild dreams, you'll quickly find yourself without any draft picks and 99% of the time with players who don't help their teams.

Bonn, you were close, he was a +/- of -29.

http://www.espn.com/nba/boxscore/_/id/40...

Love to have him on our G league team after he's cut.

Uptown wrote:If we can get Ok4 for a second rounder, then its a no brainer. He is a much better prospect than any 2nd rounder or end of the 1st round player we can get...He's young and is extremely skilled in the post. Unfortunately, he got caught up on the process and hasn't gotten a fair chance...

I'm not as down on OK4 as some, but here are things to consider: 1) He wants to go to a situation where there's playing time. We can't promise him that. Why would he come here to sit the bench when he can do that in Philly. 2) He's a free agent next year, so he can simply leave if he's not happy. We can't make him suck it up like we are with Willy. 3) How much of a no-brainer is it if no other team is doing it? There's a good chance he'll get bought out.
Second round picks are assets. There's no reason to give 'em up if we don't have to. Maybe,if the roster undergoes some changes in the coming weeks, we can revisit this. But I don't send the need to bring him here other than giving Willy another sulking partner on the bench. I don't think we even have the roster space anyway

You can't make it in the NBA if you have a mental disability - I'm not even joking here. How can you expect someone like that to execute pro level schemes?

Uptown wrote:If we can get Ok4 for a second rounder, then its a no brainer. He is a much better prospect than any 2nd rounder or end of the 1st round player we can get...He's young and is extremely skilled in the post. Unfortunately, he got caught up on the process and hasn't gotten a fair chance...

If the Knicks traded for Okafor, Willy would have even less time to make a case for himself in NY. Wouldn't mind Okafor pushing Willy. He needs it.

I agree that Philly botched his development. Surprised no one has bitten yet. Still believe the Spurs would be a great destination for OK4. I believe he would really respond in an environment less prone to drama, more structured. That was totally lacking in Philly.

simrud wrote:Beas averaged 19 one season - so what? Guy is unplayable because he is borderline mentally handicapped.

You can't make it in the NBA if you have a mental disability - I'm not even joking here. How can you expect someone like that to execute pro level schemes?

WTF are you talking about? The guy went to Duke and was the main cog in a championship as a freshmen?

BRIGGS wrote:

simrud wrote:Beas averaged 19 one season - so what? Guy is unplayable because he is borderline mentally handicapped.

You can't make it in the NBA if you have a mental disability - I'm not even joking here. How can you expect someone like that to execute pro level schemes?

WTF are you talking about? The guy went to Duke and was the main cog in a championship as a freshmen?

Yeah that proves it - just like all the football players who can't sign their name after graduating.

Kanter is Kanter because he is a dominant rebounder, hits his fts, gets buckets at a high per second/possession rate. Doesn't need a high usage rate to do these things.

Its not just the 2nd rd pick we are giving up. But within the rest of the year until he becomes a FA. There will need to be a lot of heavy lifting to make it work just to see if he can reach his potential. Then how about Jeff showing him tough love if his defense is poor for a stretch. How does that work for the impending FA?

We may just not be in the best position to do this. And odds are out of the ton of big men coming out of the draft this yr or drafts in the future. A mid to late first rounder ends up being better than him in a few years.

simrud wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

simrud wrote:Beas averaged 19 one season - so what? Guy is unplayable because he is borderline mentally handicapped.

You can't make it in the NBA if you have a mental disability - I'm not even joking here. How can you expect someone like that to execute pro level schemes?

WTF are you talking about? The guy went to Duke and was the main cog in a championship as a freshmen?

Yeah that proves it - just like all the football players who can't sign their name after graduating.

Believe you are confusing Duke with another school. This program.