Knicks · Give Me Your Ntilikina Evaluation (page 6)

Ball on Frank - “He’s very tough to guard and he proved that tonight,” said Ball, whose dad, LaVar, from courtside gave Ntilikina earfuls every time he passed by. “He’s a great player. He’s young just like me playing in a big city and trying to find his way. Much respect to him, and all the best moving forward.”

Frank on Ball - "Playing against him was exciting. He’s a great player. He’s going to be great. He has size, vision, unbelievable vision of the court. I mean, he can make plays,”

Two fine young men and talented young players. Both have great careers ahead of them.

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:I like this:

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/940249015853207552

Click here to view the Tweet

This tweet conflates numbers with aggresiveness. Its not Frank's PPG thats an issue, its Frank passing on many opportunities to score. Most of those players werent PGs either. More important for a PG to get to the rim, in part to make it easier on their teammates.

i would add that Butler was the 30th pick in the draft and Gianni's was 15th. Guys that scouted Gianni's raved about his potential but going 8th in a strong draft is going to up the expectations.

+100

Add that Giannis was a 6'11" freak. Which is main reason he has become a huge scorer. Some just dont understand tgis was about the type of player that should be taken at an 8 and not Frank. Its a simple argument. Think its just Old school guys not paying attention to where the NBA is and is heading. GS and Houston have tremendous scorers. And none of them were unable to adapt to a collective defensive unit. This notion that Frank can become a very good scorer but high level offensive players are unable to become sound defenders is short sighted. Some of us think it's easier to teach Steph Curry to be part of a good defensive scheme while others think they can teach Frank to be Steph Curry. Just look at Macbuckets amd Kanter.

Btw. Was at Laker game last night and Frank looked great. If he keeps getting more confident with his jumper and more aggressive on drives, he will become a very good point guard.

I get the notion. But I think you have just sold Frank specifically short. You made a mention of where the NBA is headed. Frank is a player that could potentially guard 3 positions. Frank potentially could play on and off ball offensively and play multiple positions offensively. Frank could potentially play multiple roles for a team and given different assignments through out a game. Flexibility like that is were the NBA he headed. And Frank while he may not have a scorers mentality in the slightest at the moment. He has displayed the skill to score in a variety of ways. He can get buckets in the flow of a game from 3, pull up jumpers, post ups, and hopefully penetration lol. His willingness and ability to pass, His ability and willingness to defend, to go with his over sized frame and arms giving him a physical advantage over most guards defensively. He isn't a 21-22 yr old college junior or senior who developed his game and body over the yrs. He is 19 yrs old who hasn't come close to developing physically. Growing in the hardest position in the NBA.

exactly... if there is an NBA trend its position-less basketball. When Frank is on a big because of a switch its literally fun to watch. He's tough to shoot over and he's even tougher to pass around.

Sorry.. great 2-way players are not easy pickings anywhere. Teams get lucky late sometimes, but that is most certainly NOT a trend. Lets see... a PG who had already shown strong play vs. grown men at 18 years old, 6'5 with a 7'0 wingspan and the last time he played against his peers he was essentially declared the best young guard in EU and Hosfstra says "naa... not with the 8th pick. Not good enough." I mean you just kinda shrug at that. I get that guy's had their ponies and favorites in the race but how people see Frank after 25 games in the NBA and *STILL* dont think he was worth the 8th pick is funny. He looks pretty good to me, but hey, I like triangle guards

Of the 4 guards we were looking at in Smith, Monk, Ntilikina and Mitchell they ALL were worthy of the 8th pick. If you had to rank them based on their first 20ish games Mitchell has looked the best, followed by Frank, then Dennis Smith and Monk has really struggled.

What's also interesting is that Phil Jackson the fossil that he was bring antiquated styles. Was willing to select unique players like KP and Frank who are clear representations of modern bball.

KP was the obvious pick @ 4....If Jahili Okafor had slipped, you better believe phil would have taken Jahlil over KP.

How does he slip? It as a 4 player then a big drop after. It was Towns, Oka4, KP. The suprise was lakers taking Russell. So who comes in over Russell to create Oka4 and KP there at the 4?
It’s on record Gaines implored Phil to take KP if we had the no. 1 pick.

what do you have other than blind hate that makes you say Phil picks Oka4 over KP?

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:I like this:

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/940249015853207552

Click here to view the Tweet

This tweet conflates numbers with aggresiveness. Its not Frank's PPG thats an issue, its Frank passing on many opportunities to score. Most of those players werent PGs either. More important for a PG to get to the rim, in part to make it easier on their teammates.

i would add that Butler was the 30th pick in the draft and Gianni's was 15th. Guys that scouted Gianni's raved about his potential but going 8th in a strong draft is going to up the expectations.

+100

Add that Giannis was a 6'11" freak. Which is main reason he has become a huge scorer. Some just dont understand tgis was about the type of player that should be taken at an 8 and not Frank. Its a simple argument. Think its just Old school guys not paying attention to where the NBA is and is heading. GS and Houston have tremendous scorers. And none of them were unable to adapt to a collective defensive unit. This notion that Frank can become a very good scorer but high level offensive players are unable to become sound defenders is short sighted. Some of us think it's easier to teach Steph Curry to be part of a good defensive scheme while others think they can teach Frank to be Steph Curry. Just look at Macbuckets amd Kanter.

Btw. Was at Laker game last night and Frank looked great. If he keeps getting more confident with his jumper and more aggressive on drives, he will become a very good point guard.

I get the notion. But I think you have just sold Frank specifically short. You made a mention of where the NBA is headed. Frank is a player that could potentially guard 3 positions. Frank potentially could play on and off ball offensively and play multiple positions offensively. Frank could potentially play multiple roles for a team and given different assignments through out a game. Flexibility like that is were the NBA he headed. And Frank while he may not have a scorers mentality in the slightest at the moment. He has displayed the skill to score in a variety of ways. He can get buckets in the flow of a game from 3, pull up jumpers, post ups, and hopefully penetration lol. His willingness and ability to pass, His ability and willingness to defend, to go with his over sized frame and arms giving him a physical advantage over most guards defensively. He isn't a 21-22 yr old college junior or senior who developed his game and body over the yrs. He is 19 yrs old who hasn't come close to developing physically. Growing in the hardest position in the NBA.

exactly... if there is an NBA trend its position-less basketball. When Frank is on a big because of a switch its literally fun to watch. He's tough to shoot over and he's even tougher to pass around.

Sorry.. great 2-way players are not easy pickings anywhere. Teams get lucky late sometimes, but that is most certainly NOT a trend. Lets see... a PG who had already shown strong play vs. grown men at 18 years old, 6'5 with a 7'0 wingspan and the last time he played against his peers he was essentially declared the best young guard in EU and Hosfstra says "naa... not with the 8th pick. Not good enough." I mean you just kinda shrug at that. I get that guy's had their ponies and favorites in the race but how people see Frank after 25 games in the NBA and *STILL* dont think he was worth the 8th pick is funny. He looks pretty good to me, but hey, I like triangle guards

Of the 4 guards we were looking at in Smith, Monk, Ntilikina and Mitchell they ALL were worthy of the 8th pick. If you had to rank them based on their first 20ish games Mitchell has looked the best, followed by Frank, then Dennis Smith and Monk has really struggled.

What's also interesting is that Phil Jackson the fossil that he was bring antiquated styles. Was willing to select unique players like KP and Frank who are clear representations of modern bball.

KP was the obvious pick @ 4....If Jahili Okafor had slipped, you better believe phil would have taken Jahlil over KP.

How does he slip? It as a 4 player then a big drop after. It was Towns, Oka4, KP. The suprise was lakers taking Russell. So who comes in over Russell to create Oka4 and KP there at the 4?
It’s on record Gaines implored Phil to take KP if we had the no. 1 pick.

what do you have other than blind hate that makes you say Phil picks Oka4 over KP?

A big butt?

Did we actually work out OK4? Can't remember- he might have turned us down.

Lakers did not seem to like his D, if I remember the articles... and his outside shooting has always been suspect...seem to recall a clip of him shooting Js for the Lakers which was terrible.

We got the right player, no matter how we ended up with him, and at the time of the draft, the only player I would have taken over him was Towns.

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:I like this:

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/940249015853207552

Click here to view the Tweet

This tweet conflates numbers with aggresiveness. Its not Frank's PPG thats an issue, its Frank passing on many opportunities to score. Most of those players werent PGs either. More important for a PG to get to the rim, in part to make it easier on their teammates.

i would add that Butler was the 30th pick in the draft and Gianni's was 15th. Guys that scouted Gianni's raved about his potential but going 8th in a strong draft is going to up the expectations.

+100

Add that Giannis was a 6'11" freak. Which is main reason he has become a huge scorer. Some just dont understand tgis was about the type of player that should be taken at an 8 and not Frank. Its a simple argument. Think its just Old school guys not paying attention to where the NBA is and is heading. GS and Houston have tremendous scorers. And none of them were unable to adapt to a collective defensive unit. This notion that Frank can become a very good scorer but high level offensive players are unable to become sound defenders is short sighted. Some of us think it's easier to teach Steph Curry to be part of a good defensive scheme while others think they can teach Frank to be Steph Curry. Just look at Macbuckets amd Kanter.

Btw. Was at Laker game last night and Frank looked great. If he keeps getting more confident with his jumper and more aggressive on drives, he will become a very good point guard.

I get the notion. But I think you have just sold Frank specifically short. You made a mention of where the NBA is headed. Frank is a player that could potentially guard 3 positions. Frank potentially could play on and off ball offensively and play multiple positions offensively. Frank could potentially play multiple roles for a team and given different assignments through out a game. Flexibility like that is were the NBA he headed. And Frank while he may not have a scorers mentality in the slightest at the moment. He has displayed the skill to score in a variety of ways. He can get buckets in the flow of a game from 3, pull up jumpers, post ups, and hopefully penetration lol. His willingness and ability to pass, His ability and willingness to defend, to go with his over sized frame and arms giving him a physical advantage over most guards defensively. He isn't a 21-22 yr old college junior or senior who developed his game and body over the yrs. He is 19 yrs old who hasn't come close to developing physically. Growing in the hardest position in the NBA.

exactly... if there is an NBA trend its position-less basketball. When Frank is on a big because of a switch its literally fun to watch. He's tough to shoot over and he's even tougher to pass around.

Sorry.. great 2-way players are not easy pickings anywhere. Teams get lucky late sometimes, but that is most certainly NOT a trend. Lets see... a PG who had already shown strong play vs. grown men at 18 years old, 6'5 with a 7'0 wingspan and the last time he played against his peers he was essentially declared the best young guard in EU and Hosfstra says "naa... not with the 8th pick. Not good enough." I mean you just kinda shrug at that. I get that guy's had their ponies and favorites in the race but how people see Frank after 25 games in the NBA and *STILL* dont think he was worth the 8th pick is funny. He looks pretty good to me, but hey, I like triangle guards

Of the 4 guards we were looking at in Smith, Monk, Ntilikina and Mitchell they ALL were worthy of the 8th pick. If you had to rank them based on their first 20ish games Mitchell has looked the best, followed by Frank, then Dennis Smith and Monk has really struggled.

What's also interesting is that Phil Jackson the fossil that he was bring antiquated styles. Was willing to select unique players like KP and Frank who are clear representations of modern bball.

KP was the obvious pick @ 4....If Jahili Okafor had slipped, you better believe phil would have taken Jahlil over KP.

How does he slip? It as a 4 player then a big drop after. It was Towns, Oka4, KP. The suprise was lakers taking Russell. So who comes in over Russell to create Oka4 and KP there at the 4?
It’s on record Gaines implored Phil to take KP if we had the no. 1 pick.

what do you have other than blind hate that makes you say Phil picks Oka4 over KP?

Maybe Gaines talks Phil into still picking KP, but I thought it was common knowledge that Phil would've taken Okafor if he were available.

Common knowledge? Based on what?

Welpee wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:I like this:

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/940249015853207552

Click here to view the Tweet

This tweet conflates numbers with aggresiveness. Its not Frank's PPG thats an issue, its Frank passing on many opportunities to score. Most of those players werent PGs either. More important for a PG to get to the rim, in part to make it easier on their teammates.

i would add that Butler was the 30th pick in the draft and Gianni's was 15th. Guys that scouted Gianni's raved about his potential but going 8th in a strong draft is going to up the expectations.

+100

Add that Giannis was a 6'11" freak. Which is main reason he has become a huge scorer. Some just dont understand tgis was about the type of player that should be taken at an 8 and not Frank. Its a simple argument. Think its just Old school guys not paying attention to where the NBA is and is heading. GS and Houston have tremendous scorers. And none of them were unable to adapt to a collective defensive unit. This notion that Frank can become a very good scorer but high level offensive players are unable to become sound defenders is short sighted. Some of us think it's easier to teach Steph Curry to be part of a good defensive scheme while others think they can teach Frank to be Steph Curry. Just look at Macbuckets amd Kanter.

Btw. Was at Laker game last night and Frank looked great. If he keeps getting more confident with his jumper and more aggressive on drives, he will become a very good point guard.

I get the notion. But I think you have just sold Frank specifically short. You made a mention of where the NBA is headed. Frank is a player that could potentially guard 3 positions. Frank potentially could play on and off ball offensively and play multiple positions offensively. Frank could potentially play multiple roles for a team and given different assignments through out a game. Flexibility like that is were the NBA he headed. And Frank while he may not have a scorers mentality in the slightest at the moment. He has displayed the skill to score in a variety of ways. He can get buckets in the flow of a game from 3, pull up jumpers, post ups, and hopefully penetration lol. His willingness and ability to pass, His ability and willingness to defend, to go with his over sized frame and arms giving him a physical advantage over most guards defensively. He isn't a 21-22 yr old college junior or senior who developed his game and body over the yrs. He is 19 yrs old who hasn't come close to developing physically. Growing in the hardest position in the NBA.

exactly... if there is an NBA trend its position-less basketball. When Frank is on a big because of a switch its literally fun to watch. He's tough to shoot over and he's even tougher to pass around.

Sorry.. great 2-way players are not easy pickings anywhere. Teams get lucky late sometimes, but that is most certainly NOT a trend. Lets see... a PG who had already shown strong play vs. grown men at 18 years old, 6'5 with a 7'0 wingspan and the last time he played against his peers he was essentially declared the best young guard in EU and Hosfstra says "naa... not with the 8th pick. Not good enough." I mean you just kinda shrug at that. I get that guy's had their ponies and favorites in the race but how people see Frank after 25 games in the NBA and *STILL* dont think he was worth the 8th pick is funny. He looks pretty good to me, but hey, I like triangle guards

Of the 4 guards we were looking at in Smith, Monk, Ntilikina and Mitchell they ALL were worthy of the 8th pick. If you had to rank them based on their first 20ish games Mitchell has looked the best, followed by Frank, then Dennis Smith and Monk has really struggled.

What's also interesting is that Phil Jackson the fossil that he was bring antiquated styles. Was willing to select unique players like KP and Frank who are clear representations of modern bball.

KP was the obvious pick @ 4....If Jahili Okafor had slipped, you better believe phil would have taken Jahlil over KP.

How does he slip? It as a 4 player then a big drop after. It was Towns, Oka4, KP. The suprise was lakers taking Russell. So who comes in over Russell to create Oka4 and KP there at the 4?
It’s on record Gaines implored Phil to take KP if we had the no. 1 pick.

what do you have other than blind hate that makes you say Phil picks Oka4 over KP?

Maybe Gaines talks Phil into still picking KP, but I thought it was common knowledge that Phil would've taken Okafor if he were available.

common knowledge isnt very useful on draft day. I mean I think every draft board everywhere had Towns/OK4/Russel in some 1/2/3 order so common knowledge had us taking one of them, UNTIL we fell to 4. I think its just that simple. The notion of dropping out of top 3 "saving Phil from taking OK4" isnt really fair. At all. Nobody knew the top scout in the Knicks org thought KP was the best player in the draft and was pushing the Knicks to take him no matter where they picked. I am not saying Knicks would have followed that direction. I am saying however that there was a lot of common knowledge that was not common.

Anywho I am just loving the mental make up of this team. These guys all want to win.

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:I like this:

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/940249015853207552

Click here to view the Tweet

This tweet conflates numbers with aggresiveness. Its not Frank's PPG thats an issue, its Frank passing on many opportunities to score. Most of those players werent PGs either. More important for a PG to get to the rim, in part to make it easier on their teammates.

i would add that Butler was the 30th pick in the draft and Gianni's was 15th. Guys that scouted Gianni's raved about his potential but going 8th in a strong draft is going to up the expectations.

+100

Add that Giannis was a 6'11" freak. Which is main reason he has become a huge scorer. Some just dont understand tgis was about the type of player that should be taken at an 8 and not Frank. Its a simple argument. Think its just Old school guys not paying attention to where the NBA is and is heading. GS and Houston have tremendous scorers. And none of them were unable to adapt to a collective defensive unit. This notion that Frank can become a very good scorer but high level offensive players are unable to become sound defenders is short sighted. Some of us think it's easier to teach Steph Curry to be part of a good defensive scheme while others think they can teach Frank to be Steph Curry. Just look at Macbuckets amd Kanter.

Btw. Was at Laker game last night and Frank looked great. If he keeps getting more confident with his jumper and more aggressive on drives, he will become a very good point guard.

I get the notion. But I think you have just sold Frank specifically short. You made a mention of where the NBA is headed. Frank is a player that could potentially guard 3 positions. Frank potentially could play on and off ball offensively and play multiple positions offensively. Frank could potentially play multiple roles for a team and given different assignments through out a game. Flexibility like that is were the NBA he headed. And Frank while he may not have a scorers mentality in the slightest at the moment. He has displayed the skill to score in a variety of ways. He can get buckets in the flow of a game from 3, pull up jumpers, post ups, and hopefully penetration lol. His willingness and ability to pass, His ability and willingness to defend, to go with his over sized frame and arms giving him a physical advantage over most guards defensively. He isn't a 21-22 yr old college junior or senior who developed his game and body over the yrs. He is 19 yrs old who hasn't come close to developing physically. Growing in the hardest position in the NBA.

exactly... if there is an NBA trend its position-less basketball. When Frank is on a big because of a switch its literally fun to watch. He's tough to shoot over and he's even tougher to pass around.

Sorry.. great 2-way players are not easy pickings anywhere. Teams get lucky late sometimes, but that is most certainly NOT a trend. Lets see... a PG who had already shown strong play vs. grown men at 18 years old, 6'5 with a 7'0 wingspan and the last time he played against his peers he was essentially declared the best young guard in EU and Hosfstra says "naa... not with the 8th pick. Not good enough." I mean you just kinda shrug at that. I get that guy's had their ponies and favorites in the race but how people see Frank after 25 games in the NBA and *STILL* dont think he was worth the 8th pick is funny. He looks pretty good to me, but hey, I like triangle guards

Of the 4 guards we were looking at in Smith, Monk, Ntilikina and Mitchell they ALL were worthy of the 8th pick. If you had to rank them based on their first 20ish games Mitchell has looked the best, followed by Frank, then Dennis Smith and Monk has really struggled.

What's also interesting is that Phil Jackson the fossil that he was bring antiquated styles. Was willing to select unique players like KP and Frank who are clear representations of modern bball.

KP was the obvious pick @ 4....If Jahili Okafor had slipped, you better believe phil would have taken Jahlil over KP.

How does he slip? It as a 4 player then a big drop after. It was Towns, Oka4, KP. The suprise was lakers taking Russell. So who comes in over Russell to create Oka4 and KP there at the 4?
It’s on record Gaines implored Phil to take KP if we had the no. 1 pick.

what do you have other than blind hate that makes you say Phil picks Oka4 over KP?

Maybe Gaines talks Phil into still picking KP, but I thought it was common knowledge that Phil would've taken Okafor if he were available.

common knowledge isnt very useful on draft day. I mean I think every draft board everywhere had Towns/OK4/Russel in some 1/2/3 order so common knowledge had us taking one of them, UNTIL we fell to 4. I think its just that simple. The notion of dropping out of top 3 "saving Phil from taking OK4" isnt really fair. At all. Nobody knew the top scout in the Knicks org thought KP was the best player in the draft and was pushing the Knicks to take him no matter where they picked. I am not saying Knicks would have followed that direction. I am saying however that there was a lot of common knowledge that was not common.

Anywho I am just loving the mental make up of this team. These guys all want to win.

My original comment was more about KP brought non traditional, unique, unicorn skills that antiquated Phil was willing to roll the dice on. Even if OK4 would have been the target if he was there which we don't know for sure if true. Phil still didn't have to stick with KP. He could have traded down, could have drafted KP and traded him for other pieces etc etc...

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:I like this:

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/940249015853207552

Click here to view the Tweet

This tweet conflates numbers with aggresiveness. Its not Frank's PPG thats an issue, its Frank passing on many opportunities to score. Most of those players werent PGs either. More important for a PG to get to the rim, in part to make it easier on their teammates.

i would add that Butler was the 30th pick in the draft and Gianni's was 15th. Guys that scouted Gianni's raved about his potential but going 8th in a strong draft is going to up the expectations.

+100

Add that Giannis was a 6'11" freak. Which is main reason he has become a huge scorer. Some just dont understand tgis was about the type of player that should be taken at an 8 and not Frank. Its a simple argument. Think its just Old school guys not paying attention to where the NBA is and is heading. GS and Houston have tremendous scorers. And none of them were unable to adapt to a collective defensive unit. This notion that Frank can become a very good scorer but high level offensive players are unable to become sound defenders is short sighted. Some of us think it's easier to teach Steph Curry to be part of a good defensive scheme while others think they can teach Frank to be Steph Curry. Just look at Macbuckets amd Kanter.

Btw. Was at Laker game last night and Frank looked great. If he keeps getting more confident with his jumper and more aggressive on drives, he will become a very good point guard.

I get the notion. But I think you have just sold Frank specifically short. You made a mention of where the NBA is headed. Frank is a player that could potentially guard 3 positions. Frank potentially could play on and off ball offensively and play multiple positions offensively. Frank could potentially play multiple roles for a team and given different assignments through out a game. Flexibility like that is were the NBA he headed. And Frank while he may not have a scorers mentality in the slightest at the moment. He has displayed the skill to score in a variety of ways. He can get buckets in the flow of a game from 3, pull up jumpers, post ups, and hopefully penetration lol. His willingness and ability to pass, His ability and willingness to defend, to go with his over sized frame and arms giving him a physical advantage over most guards defensively. He isn't a 21-22 yr old college junior or senior who developed his game and body over the yrs. He is 19 yrs old who hasn't come close to developing physically. Growing in the hardest position in the NBA.

exactly... if there is an NBA trend its position-less basketball. When Frank is on a big because of a switch its literally fun to watch. He's tough to shoot over and he's even tougher to pass around.

Sorry.. great 2-way players are not easy pickings anywhere. Teams get lucky late sometimes, but that is most certainly NOT a trend. Lets see... a PG who had already shown strong play vs. grown men at 18 years old, 6'5 with a 7'0 wingspan and the last time he played against his peers he was essentially declared the best young guard in EU and Hosfstra says "naa... not with the 8th pick. Not good enough." I mean you just kinda shrug at that. I get that guy's had their ponies and favorites in the race but how people see Frank after 25 games in the NBA and *STILL* dont think he was worth the 8th pick is funny. He looks pretty good to me, but hey, I like triangle guards

Of the 4 guards we were looking at in Smith, Monk, Ntilikina and Mitchell they ALL were worthy of the 8th pick. If you had to rank them based on their first 20ish games Mitchell has looked the best, followed by Frank, then Dennis Smith and Monk has really struggled.

What's also interesting is that Phil Jackson the fossil that he was bring antiquated styles. Was willing to select unique players like KP and Frank who are clear representations of modern bball.

KP was the obvious pick @ 4....If Jahili Okafor had slipped, you better believe phil would have taken Jahlil over KP.

How does he slip? It as a 4 player then a big drop after. It was Towns, Oka4, KP. The suprise was lakers taking Russell. So who comes in over Russell to create Oka4 and KP there at the 4?
It’s on record Gaines implored Phil to take KP if we had the no. 1 pick.

what do you have other than blind hate that makes you say Phil picks Oka4 over KP?

Maybe Gaines talks Phil into still picking KP, but I thought it was common knowledge that Phil would've taken Okafor if he were available.

common knowledge isnt very useful on draft day. I mean I think every draft board everywhere had Towns/OK4/Russel in some 1/2/3 order so common knowledge had us taking one of them, UNTIL we fell to 4. I think its just that simple. The notion of dropping out of top 3 "saving Phil from taking OK4" isnt really fair. At all. Nobody knew the top scout in the Knicks org thought KP was the best player in the draft and was pushing the Knicks to take him no matter where they picked. I am not saying Knicks would have followed that direction. I am saying however that there was a lot of common knowledge that was not common.

Anywho I am just loving the mental make up of this team. These guys all want to win.

Doesn't this feel better than losing, 8 wks ago most of you were so committed to losing and drafting once we got rid of melo. so much was wrong with that level of thinking, it wasn't even funny,

Funny how "KNICKOFTIME" (a losing advocate)just disappeared with melo gone and the team winning

If we had atl or the bulls record, that would have meant frank was a major, major project, and many would have been completely turned off by the pick.

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:I like this:

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/940249015853207552

Click here to view the Tweet

This tweet conflates numbers with aggresiveness. Its not Frank's PPG thats an issue, its Frank passing on many opportunities to score. Most of those players werent PGs either. More important for a PG to get to the rim, in part to make it easier on their teammates.

i would add that Butler was the 30th pick in the draft and Gianni's was 15th. Guys that scouted Gianni's raved about his potential but going 8th in a strong draft is going to up the expectations.

+100

Add that Giannis was a 6'11" freak. Which is main reason he has become a huge scorer. Some just dont understand tgis was about the type of player that should be taken at an 8 and not Frank. Its a simple argument. Think its just Old school guys not paying attention to where the NBA is and is heading. GS and Houston have tremendous scorers. And none of them were unable to adapt to a collective defensive unit. This notion that Frank can become a very good scorer but high level offensive players are unable to become sound defenders is short sighted. Some of us think it's easier to teach Steph Curry to be part of a good defensive scheme while others think they can teach Frank to be Steph Curry. Just look at Macbuckets amd Kanter.

Btw. Was at Laker game last night and Frank looked great. If he keeps getting more confident with his jumper and more aggressive on drives, he will become a very good point guard.

I get the notion. But I think you have just sold Frank specifically short. You made a mention of where the NBA is headed. Frank is a player that could potentially guard 3 positions. Frank potentially could play on and off ball offensively and play multiple positions offensively. Frank could potentially play multiple roles for a team and given different assignments through out a game. Flexibility like that is were the NBA he headed. And Frank while he may not have a scorers mentality in the slightest at the moment. He has displayed the skill to score in a variety of ways. He can get buckets in the flow of a game from 3, pull up jumpers, post ups, and hopefully penetration lol. His willingness and ability to pass, His ability and willingness to defend, to go with his over sized frame and arms giving him a physical advantage over most guards defensively. He isn't a 21-22 yr old college junior or senior who developed his game and body over the yrs. He is 19 yrs old who hasn't come close to developing physically. Growing in the hardest position in the NBA.

exactly... if there is an NBA trend its position-less basketball. When Frank is on a big because of a switch its literally fun to watch. He's tough to shoot over and he's even tougher to pass around.

Sorry.. great 2-way players are not easy pickings anywhere. Teams get lucky late sometimes, but that is most certainly NOT a trend. Lets see... a PG who had already shown strong play vs. grown men at 18 years old, 6'5 with a 7'0 wingspan and the last time he played against his peers he was essentially declared the best young guard in EU and Hosfstra says "naa... not with the 8th pick. Not good enough." I mean you just kinda shrug at that. I get that guy's had their ponies and favorites in the race but how people see Frank after 25 games in the NBA and *STILL* dont think he was worth the 8th pick is funny. He looks pretty good to me, but hey, I like triangle guards

Of the 4 guards we were looking at in Smith, Monk, Ntilikina and Mitchell they ALL were worthy of the 8th pick. If you had to rank them based on their first 20ish games Mitchell has looked the best, followed by Frank, then Dennis Smith and Monk has really struggled.

What's also interesting is that Phil Jackson the fossil that he was bring antiquated styles. Was willing to select unique players like KP and Frank who are clear representations of modern bball.

KP was the obvious pick @ 4....If Jahili Okafor had slipped, you better believe phil would have taken Jahlil over KP.

How does he slip? It as a 4 player then a big drop after. It was Towns, Oka4, KP. The suprise was lakers taking Russell. So who comes in over Russell to create Oka4 and KP there at the 4?
It’s on record Gaines implored Phil to take KP if we had the no. 1 pick.

what do you have other than blind hate that makes you say Phil picks Oka4 over KP?

Maybe Gaines talks Phil into still picking KP, but I thought it was common knowledge that Phil would've taken Okafor if he were available.

common knowledge isnt very useful on draft day. I mean I think every draft board everywhere had Towns/OK4/Russel in some 1/2/3 order so common knowledge had us taking one of them, UNTIL we fell to 4. I think its just that simple. The notion of dropping out of top 3 "saving Phil from taking OK4" isnt really fair. At all. Nobody knew the top scout in the Knicks org thought KP was the best player in the draft and was pushing the Knicks to take him no matter where they picked. I am not saying Knicks would have followed that direction. I am saying however that there was a lot of common knowledge that was not common.

Anywho I am just loving the mental make up of this team. These guys all want to win.

Doesn't this feel better than losing, 8 wks ago most of you were so committed to losing and drafting once we got rid of melo. so much was wrong with that level of thinking, it wasn't even funny,

Funny how "KNICKOFTIME" (a losing advocate)just disappeared with melo gone and the team winning

If we had atl or the bulls record, that would have meant frank was a major, major project, and many would have been completely turned off by the pick.

NOBODY was cheering to tank. Fans just didnt want to trade picks anymore like we used to do

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:I like this:

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/940249015853207552

Click here to view the Tweet

This tweet conflates numbers with aggresiveness. Its not Frank's PPG thats an issue, its Frank passing on many opportunities to score. Most of those players werent PGs either. More important for a PG to get to the rim, in part to make it easier on their teammates.

i would add that Butler was the 30th pick in the draft and Gianni's was 15th. Guys that scouted Gianni's raved about his potential but going 8th in a strong draft is going to up the expectations.

+100

Add that Giannis was a 6'11" freak. Which is main reason he has become a huge scorer. Some just dont understand tgis was about the type of player that should be taken at an 8 and not Frank. Its a simple argument. Think its just Old school guys not paying attention to where the NBA is and is heading. GS and Houston have tremendous scorers. And none of them were unable to adapt to a collective defensive unit. This notion that Frank can become a very good scorer but high level offensive players are unable to become sound defenders is short sighted. Some of us think it's easier to teach Steph Curry to be part of a good defensive scheme while others think they can teach Frank to be Steph Curry. Just look at Macbuckets amd Kanter.

Btw. Was at Laker game last night and Frank looked great. If he keeps getting more confident with his jumper and more aggressive on drives, he will become a very good point guard.

I get the notion. But I think you have just sold Frank specifically short. You made a mention of where the NBA is headed. Frank is a player that could potentially guard 3 positions. Frank potentially could play on and off ball offensively and play multiple positions offensively. Frank could potentially play multiple roles for a team and given different assignments through out a game. Flexibility like that is were the NBA he headed. And Frank while he may not have a scorers mentality in the slightest at the moment. He has displayed the skill to score in a variety of ways. He can get buckets in the flow of a game from 3, pull up jumpers, post ups, and hopefully penetration lol. His willingness and ability to pass, His ability and willingness to defend, to go with his over sized frame and arms giving him a physical advantage over most guards defensively. He isn't a 21-22 yr old college junior or senior who developed his game and body over the yrs. He is 19 yrs old who hasn't come close to developing physically. Growing in the hardest position in the NBA.

exactly... if there is an NBA trend its position-less basketball. When Frank is on a big because of a switch its literally fun to watch. He's tough to shoot over and he's even tougher to pass around.

Sorry.. great 2-way players are not easy pickings anywhere. Teams get lucky late sometimes, but that is most certainly NOT a trend. Lets see... a PG who had already shown strong play vs. grown men at 18 years old, 6'5 with a 7'0 wingspan and the last time he played against his peers he was essentially declared the best young guard in EU and Hosfstra says "naa... not with the 8th pick. Not good enough." I mean you just kinda shrug at that. I get that guy's had their ponies and favorites in the race but how people see Frank after 25 games in the NBA and *STILL* dont think he was worth the 8th pick is funny. He looks pretty good to me, but hey, I like triangle guards

Of the 4 guards we were looking at in Smith, Monk, Ntilikina and Mitchell they ALL were worthy of the 8th pick. If you had to rank them based on their first 20ish games Mitchell has looked the best, followed by Frank, then Dennis Smith and Monk has really struggled.

What's also interesting is that Phil Jackson the fossil that he was bring antiquated styles. Was willing to select unique players like KP and Frank who are clear representations of modern bball.

KP was the obvious pick @ 4....If Jahili Okafor had slipped, you better believe phil would have taken Jahlil over KP.

How does he slip? It as a 4 player then a big drop after. It was Towns, Oka4, KP. The suprise was lakers taking Russell. So who comes in over Russell to create Oka4 and KP there at the 4?
It’s on record Gaines implored Phil to take KP if we had the no. 1 pick.

what do you have other than blind hate that makes you say Phil picks Oka4 over KP?

Maybe Gaines talks Phil into still picking KP, but I thought it was common knowledge that Phil would've taken Okafor if he were available.

common knowledge isnt very useful on draft day. I mean I think every draft board everywhere had Towns/OK4/Russel in some 1/2/3 order so common knowledge had us taking one of them, UNTIL we fell to 4. I think its just that simple. The notion of dropping out of top 3 "saving Phil from taking OK4" isnt really fair. At all. Nobody knew the top scout in the Knicks org thought KP was the best player in the draft and was pushing the Knicks to take him no matter where they picked. I am not saying Knicks would have followed that direction. I am saying however that there was a lot of common knowledge that was not common.

Anywho I am just loving the mental make up of this team. These guys all want to win.

Doesn't this feel better than losing, 8 wks ago most of you were so committed to losing and drafting once we got rid of melo. so much was wrong with that level of thinking, it wasn't even funny,

Funny how "KNICKOFTIME" (a losing advocate)just disappeared with melo gone and the team winning

If we had atl or the bulls record, that would have meant frank was a major, major project, and many would have been completely turned off by the pick.

NOBODY was cheering to tank. Fans just didnt want to trade picks anymore like we used to do

Some didn't directly say tank despite the many tank threads, but in a indirect way, they were ok with the Knicks losing for a high pick, and how they didn't build a team to win.

knicks1248 wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:I like this:

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/940249015853207552

Click here to view the Tweet

This tweet conflates numbers with aggresiveness. Its not Frank's PPG thats an issue, its Frank passing on many opportunities to score. Most of those players werent PGs either. More important for a PG to get to the rim, in part to make it easier on their teammates.

i would add that Butler was the 30th pick in the draft and Gianni's was 15th. Guys that scouted Gianni's raved about his potential but going 8th in a strong draft is going to up the expectations.

+100

Add that Giannis was a 6'11" freak. Which is main reason he has become a huge scorer. Some just dont understand tgis was about the type of player that should be taken at an 8 and not Frank. Its a simple argument. Think its just Old school guys not paying attention to where the NBA is and is heading. GS and Houston have tremendous scorers. And none of them were unable to adapt to a collective defensive unit. This notion that Frank can become a very good scorer but high level offensive players are unable to become sound defenders is short sighted. Some of us think it's easier to teach Steph Curry to be part of a good defensive scheme while others think they can teach Frank to be Steph Curry. Just look at Macbuckets amd Kanter.

Btw. Was at Laker game last night and Frank looked great. If he keeps getting more confident with his jumper and more aggressive on drives, he will become a very good point guard.

I get the notion. But I think you have just sold Frank specifically short. You made a mention of where the NBA is headed. Frank is a player that could potentially guard 3 positions. Frank potentially could play on and off ball offensively and play multiple positions offensively. Frank could potentially play multiple roles for a team and given different assignments through out a game. Flexibility like that is were the NBA he headed. And Frank while he may not have a scorers mentality in the slightest at the moment. He has displayed the skill to score in a variety of ways. He can get buckets in the flow of a game from 3, pull up jumpers, post ups, and hopefully penetration lol. His willingness and ability to pass, His ability and willingness to defend, to go with his over sized frame and arms giving him a physical advantage over most guards defensively. He isn't a 21-22 yr old college junior or senior who developed his game and body over the yrs. He is 19 yrs old who hasn't come close to developing physically. Growing in the hardest position in the NBA.

exactly... if there is an NBA trend its position-less basketball. When Frank is on a big because of a switch its literally fun to watch. He's tough to shoot over and he's even tougher to pass around.

Sorry.. great 2-way players are not easy pickings anywhere. Teams get lucky late sometimes, but that is most certainly NOT a trend. Lets see... a PG who had already shown strong play vs. grown men at 18 years old, 6'5 with a 7'0 wingspan and the last time he played against his peers he was essentially declared the best young guard in EU and Hosfstra says "naa... not with the 8th pick. Not good enough." I mean you just kinda shrug at that. I get that guy's had their ponies and favorites in the race but how people see Frank after 25 games in the NBA and *STILL* dont think he was worth the 8th pick is funny. He looks pretty good to me, but hey, I like triangle guards

Of the 4 guards we were looking at in Smith, Monk, Ntilikina and Mitchell they ALL were worthy of the 8th pick. If you had to rank them based on their first 20ish games Mitchell has looked the best, followed by Frank, then Dennis Smith and Monk has really struggled.

What's also interesting is that Phil Jackson the fossil that he was bring antiquated styles. Was willing to select unique players like KP and Frank who are clear representations of modern bball.

KP was the obvious pick @ 4....If Jahili Okafor had slipped, you better believe phil would have taken Jahlil over KP.

How does he slip? It as a 4 player then a big drop after. It was Towns, Oka4, KP. The suprise was lakers taking Russell. So who comes in over Russell to create Oka4 and KP there at the 4?
It’s on record Gaines implored Phil to take KP if we had the no. 1 pick.

what do you have other than blind hate that makes you say Phil picks Oka4 over KP?

Maybe Gaines talks Phil into still picking KP, but I thought it was common knowledge that Phil would've taken Okafor if he were available.

common knowledge isnt very useful on draft day. I mean I think every draft board everywhere had Towns/OK4/Russel in some 1/2/3 order so common knowledge had us taking one of them, UNTIL we fell to 4. I think its just that simple. The notion of dropping out of top 3 "saving Phil from taking OK4" isnt really fair. At all. Nobody knew the top scout in the Knicks org thought KP was the best player in the draft and was pushing the Knicks to take him no matter where they picked. I am not saying Knicks would have followed that direction. I am saying however that there was a lot of common knowledge that was not common.

Anywho I am just loving the mental make up of this team. These guys all want to win.

Doesn't this feel better than losing, 8 wks ago most of you were so committed to losing and drafting once we got rid of melo. so much was wrong with that level of thinking, it wasn't even funny,

Funny how "KNICKOFTIME" (a losing advocate)just disappeared with melo gone and the team winning

If we had atl or the bulls record, that would have meant frank was a major, major project, and many would have been completely turned off by the pick.

NOBODY was cheering to tank. Fans just didnt want to trade picks anymore like we used to do

Some didn't directly say tank despite the many tank threads, but in a indirect way, they were ok with the Knicks losing for a high pick, and how they didn't build a team to win.

not really. Yes some feel a high pick would be beneficial but that doesnt mean they were cheering to lose. Building through the draft is still very very important no matter where the pick lands

meloshouldgo wrote:Common knowledge? Based on what?

Here's one take:

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/Delblogo/status/941212664130400256

Click here to view the Tweet

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:I like this:

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/940249015853207552

Click here to view the Tweet

This tweet conflates numbers with aggresiveness. Its not Frank's PPG thats an issue, its Frank passing on many opportunities to score. Most of those players werent PGs either. More important for a PG to get to the rim, in part to make it easier on their teammates.

i would add that Butler was the 30th pick in the draft and Gianni's was 15th. Guys that scouted Gianni's raved about his potential but going 8th in a strong draft is going to up the expectations.

+100

Add that Giannis was a 6'11" freak. Which is main reason he has become a huge scorer. Some just dont understand tgis was about the type of player that should be taken at an 8 and not Frank. Its a simple argument. Think its just Old school guys not paying attention to where the NBA is and is heading. GS and Houston have tremendous scorers. And none of them were unable to adapt to a collective defensive unit. This notion that Frank can become a very good scorer but high level offensive players are unable to become sound defenders is short sighted. Some of us think it's easier to teach Steph Curry to be part of a good defensive scheme while others think they can teach Frank to be Steph Curry. Just look at Macbuckets amd Kanter.

Btw. Was at Laker game last night and Frank looked great. If he keeps getting more confident with his jumper and more aggressive on drives, he will become a very good point guard.

I get the notion. But I think you have just sold Frank specifically short. You made a mention of where the NBA is headed. Frank is a player that could potentially guard 3 positions. Frank potentially could play on and off ball offensively and play multiple positions offensively. Frank could potentially play multiple roles for a team and given different assignments through out a game. Flexibility like that is were the NBA he headed. And Frank while he may not have a scorers mentality in the slightest at the moment. He has displayed the skill to score in a variety of ways. He can get buckets in the flow of a game from 3, pull up jumpers, post ups, and hopefully penetration lol. His willingness and ability to pass, His ability and willingness to defend, to go with his over sized frame and arms giving him a physical advantage over most guards defensively. He isn't a 21-22 yr old college junior or senior who developed his game and body over the yrs. He is 19 yrs old who hasn't come close to developing physically. Growing in the hardest position in the NBA.

exactly... if there is an NBA trend its position-less basketball. When Frank is on a big because of a switch its literally fun to watch. He's tough to shoot over and he's even tougher to pass around.

Sorry.. great 2-way players are not easy pickings anywhere. Teams get lucky late sometimes, but that is most certainly NOT a trend. Lets see... a PG who had already shown strong play vs. grown men at 18 years old, 6'5 with a 7'0 wingspan and the last time he played against his peers he was essentially declared the best young guard in EU and Hosfstra says "naa... not with the 8th pick. Not good enough." I mean you just kinda shrug at that. I get that guy's had their ponies and favorites in the race but how people see Frank after 25 games in the NBA and *STILL* dont think he was worth the 8th pick is funny. He looks pretty good to me, but hey, I like triangle guards

Of the 4 guards we were looking at in Smith, Monk, Ntilikina and Mitchell they ALL were worthy of the 8th pick. If you had to rank them based on their first 20ish games Mitchell has looked the best, followed by Frank, then Dennis Smith and Monk has really struggled.

What's also interesting is that Phil Jackson the fossil that he was bring antiquated styles. Was willing to select unique players like KP and Frank who are clear representations of modern bball.

KP was the obvious pick @ 4....If Jahili Okafor had slipped, you better believe phil would have taken Jahlil over KP.

How does he slip? It as a 4 player then a big drop after. It was Towns, Oka4, KP. The suprise was lakers taking Russell. So who comes in over Russell to create Oka4 and KP there at the 4?
It’s on record Gaines implored Phil to take KP if we had the no. 1 pick.

what do you have other than blind hate that makes you say Phil picks Oka4 over KP?

Maybe Gaines talks Phil into still picking KP, but I thought it was common knowledge that Phil would've taken Okafor if he were available.

common knowledge isnt very useful on draft day. I mean I think every draft board everywhere had Towns/OK4/Russel in some 1/2/3 order so common knowledge had us taking one of them, UNTIL we fell to 4. I think its just that simple. The notion of dropping out of top 3 "saving Phil from taking OK4" isnt really fair. At all. Nobody knew the top scout in the Knicks org thought KP was the best player in the draft and was pushing the Knicks to take him no matter where they picked. I am not saying Knicks would have followed that direction. I am saying however that there was a lot of common knowledge that was not common.

Anywho I am just loving the mental make up of this team. These guys all want to win.

Doesn't this feel better than losing, 8 wks ago most of you were so committed to losing and drafting once we got rid of melo. so much was wrong with that level of thinking, it wasn't even funny,

Funny how "KNICKOFTIME" (a losing advocate)just disappeared with melo gone and the team winning

If we had atl or the bulls record, that would have meant frank was a major, major project, and many would have been completely turned off by the pick.

Bruh, you bitched about and disagrees with every move made this off-season. You should be the last person looking to call out other posters like Knickoftime. Who most likely left if he did more so due to his conflict with Briggs then due to the Knicks winning. According to you we can't develop anyone anyway so this is all futile at the end if the day. Smh

The fans who want the high lotto pick. The reasoning is understandable and self explainitory. Kevin Durant and Westbrook lost a ton which landed James Harden. Shouldn't base prospects on what they accomplish their rookie yrs. Frank could easily struggle his rookie yr. We could suck land a top 3 pick and then Frank show major progress his sophomore yr. Nobody would care next season that he struggled his rookie yr.

The season only gonna get harder and we still can't win on the road. It's very possible the bottom fall out eventually. As long as Frank is getting meaningfully reps and development. KP continues to hone his inner unicorn. And we are able to get good evaluation on Kanter and Doug. Its a successful season. No dysfunction just a young team trying to grow.

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:I like this:

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/940249015853207552

Click here to view the Tweet

This tweet conflates numbers with aggresiveness. Its not Frank's PPG thats an issue, its Frank passing on many opportunities to score. Most of those players werent PGs either. More important for a PG to get to the rim, in part to make it easier on their teammates.

i would add that Butler was the 30th pick in the draft and Gianni's was 15th. Guys that scouted Gianni's raved about his potential but going 8th in a strong draft is going to up the expectations.

+100

Add that Giannis was a 6'11" freak. Which is main reason he has become a huge scorer. Some just dont understand tgis was about the type of player that should be taken at an 8 and not Frank. Its a simple argument. Think its just Old school guys not paying attention to where the NBA is and is heading. GS and Houston have tremendous scorers. And none of them were unable to adapt to a collective defensive unit. This notion that Frank can become a very good scorer but high level offensive players are unable to become sound defenders is short sighted. Some of us think it's easier to teach Steph Curry to be part of a good defensive scheme while others think they can teach Frank to be Steph Curry. Just look at Macbuckets amd Kanter.

Btw. Was at Laker game last night and Frank looked great. If he keeps getting more confident with his jumper and more aggressive on drives, he will become a very good point guard.

I get the notion. But I think you have just sold Frank specifically short. You made a mention of where the NBA is headed. Frank is a player that could potentially guard 3 positions. Frank potentially could play on and off ball offensively and play multiple positions offensively. Frank could potentially play multiple roles for a team and given different assignments through out a game. Flexibility like that is were the NBA he headed. And Frank while he may not have a scorers mentality in the slightest at the moment. He has displayed the skill to score in a variety of ways. He can get buckets in the flow of a game from 3, pull up jumpers, post ups, and hopefully penetration lol. His willingness and ability to pass, His ability and willingness to defend, to go with his over sized frame and arms giving him a physical advantage over most guards defensively. He isn't a 21-22 yr old college junior or senior who developed his game and body over the yrs. He is 19 yrs old who hasn't come close to developing physically. Growing in the hardest position in the NBA.

exactly... if there is an NBA trend its position-less basketball. When Frank is on a big because of a switch its literally fun to watch. He's tough to shoot over and he's even tougher to pass around.

Sorry.. great 2-way players are not easy pickings anywhere. Teams get lucky late sometimes, but that is most certainly NOT a trend. Lets see... a PG who had already shown strong play vs. grown men at 18 years old, 6'5 with a 7'0 wingspan and the last time he played against his peers he was essentially declared the best young guard in EU and Hosfstra says "naa... not with the 8th pick. Not good enough." I mean you just kinda shrug at that. I get that guy's had their ponies and favorites in the race but how people see Frank after 25 games in the NBA and *STILL* dont think he was worth the 8th pick is funny. He looks pretty good to me, but hey, I like triangle guards

Of the 4 guards we were looking at in Smith, Monk, Ntilikina and Mitchell they ALL were worthy of the 8th pick. If you had to rank them based on their first 20ish games Mitchell has looked the best, followed by Frank, then Dennis Smith and Monk has really struggled.

What's also interesting is that Phil Jackson the fossil that he was bring antiquated styles. Was willing to select unique players like KP and Frank who are clear representations of modern bball.

KP was the obvious pick @ 4....If Jahili Okafor had slipped, you better believe phil would have taken Jahlil over KP.

How does he slip? It as a 4 player then a big drop after. It was Towns, Oka4, KP. The suprise was lakers taking Russell. So who comes in over Russell to create Oka4 and KP there at the 4?
It’s on record Gaines implored Phil to take KP if we had the no. 1 pick.

what do you have other than blind hate that makes you say Phil picks Oka4 over KP?

Maybe Gaines talks Phil into still picking KP, but I thought it was common knowledge that Phil would've taken Okafor if he were available.

common knowledge isnt very useful on draft day. I mean I think every draft board everywhere had Towns/OK4/Russel in some 1/2/3 order so common knowledge had us taking one of them, UNTIL we fell to 4. I think its just that simple. The notion of dropping out of top 3 "saving Phil from taking OK4" isnt really fair. At all. Nobody knew the top scout in the Knicks org thought KP was the best player in the draft and was pushing the Knicks to take him no matter where they picked. I am not saying Knicks would have followed that direction. I am saying however that there was a lot of common knowledge that was not common.

Anywho I am just loving the mental make up of this team. These guys all want to win.

You are right Fish!!! I stand corrected, the wording on my original post was wrong...We did fall out of the top 3 and slipped to 4. Had we been in the top 3, I belive phil takes Ok4. He was the ideal big for the Triangle....

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:I like this:

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/940249015853207552

Click here to view the Tweet

This tweet conflates numbers with aggresiveness. Its not Frank's PPG thats an issue, its Frank passing on many opportunities to score. Most of those players werent PGs either. More important for a PG to get to the rim, in part to make it easier on their teammates.

i would add that Butler was the 30th pick in the draft and Gianni's was 15th. Guys that scouted Gianni's raved about his potential but going 8th in a strong draft is going to up the expectations.

+100

Add that Giannis was a 6'11" freak. Which is main reason he has become a huge scorer. Some just dont understand tgis was about the type of player that should be taken at an 8 and not Frank. Its a simple argument. Think its just Old school guys not paying attention to where the NBA is and is heading. GS and Houston have tremendous scorers. And none of them were unable to adapt to a collective defensive unit. This notion that Frank can become a very good scorer but high level offensive players are unable to become sound defenders is short sighted. Some of us think it's easier to teach Steph Curry to be part of a good defensive scheme while others think they can teach Frank to be Steph Curry. Just look at Macbuckets amd Kanter.

Btw. Was at Laker game last night and Frank looked great. If he keeps getting more confident with his jumper and more aggressive on drives, he will become a very good point guard.

I get the notion. But I think you have just sold Frank specifically short. You made a mention of where the NBA is headed. Frank is a player that could potentially guard 3 positions. Frank potentially could play on and off ball offensively and play multiple positions offensively. Frank could potentially play multiple roles for a team and given different assignments through out a game. Flexibility like that is were the NBA he headed. And Frank while he may not have a scorers mentality in the slightest at the moment. He has displayed the skill to score in a variety of ways. He can get buckets in the flow of a game from 3, pull up jumpers, post ups, and hopefully penetration lol. His willingness and ability to pass, His ability and willingness to defend, to go with his over sized frame and arms giving him a physical advantage over most guards defensively. He isn't a 21-22 yr old college junior or senior who developed his game and body over the yrs. He is 19 yrs old who hasn't come close to developing physically. Growing in the hardest position in the NBA.

exactly... if there is an NBA trend its position-less basketball. When Frank is on a big because of a switch its literally fun to watch. He's tough to shoot over and he's even tougher to pass around.

Sorry.. great 2-way players are not easy pickings anywhere. Teams get lucky late sometimes, but that is most certainly NOT a trend. Lets see... a PG who had already shown strong play vs. grown men at 18 years old, 6'5 with a 7'0 wingspan and the last time he played against his peers he was essentially declared the best young guard in EU and Hosfstra says "naa... not with the 8th pick. Not good enough." I mean you just kinda shrug at that. I get that guy's had their ponies and favorites in the race but how people see Frank after 25 games in the NBA and *STILL* dont think he was worth the 8th pick is funny. He looks pretty good to me, but hey, I like triangle guards

Of the 4 guards we were looking at in Smith, Monk, Ntilikina and Mitchell they ALL were worthy of the 8th pick. If you had to rank them based on their first 20ish games Mitchell has looked the best, followed by Frank, then Dennis Smith and Monk has really struggled.

What's also interesting is that Phil Jackson the fossil that he was bring antiquated styles. Was willing to select unique players like KP and Frank who are clear representations of modern bball.

KP was the obvious pick @ 4....If Jahili Okafor had slipped, you better believe phil would have taken Jahlil over KP.

How does he slip? It as a 4 player then a big drop after. It was Towns, Oka4, KP. The suprise was lakers taking Russell. So who comes in over Russell to create Oka4 and KP there at the 4?
It’s on record Gaines implored Phil to take KP if we had the no. 1 pick.

what do you have other than blind hate that makes you say Phil picks Oka4 over KP?

Maybe Gaines talks Phil into still picking KP, but I thought it was common knowledge that Phil would've taken Okafor if he were available.

common knowledge isnt very useful on draft day. I mean I think every draft board everywhere had Towns/OK4/Russel in some 1/2/3 order so common knowledge had us taking one of them, UNTIL we fell to 4. I think its just that simple. The notion of dropping out of top 3 "saving Phil from taking OK4" isnt really fair. At all. Nobody knew the top scout in the Knicks org thought KP was the best player in the draft and was pushing the Knicks to take him no matter where they picked. I am not saying Knicks would have followed that direction. I am saying however that there was a lot of common knowledge that was not common.

Anywho I am just loving the mental make up of this team. These guys all want to win.

Doesn't this feel better than losing, 8 wks ago most of you were so committed to losing and drafting once we got rid of melo. so much was wrong with that level of thinking, it wasn't even funny,

Funny how "KNICKOFTIME" (a losing advocate)just disappeared with melo gone and the team winning

If we had atl or the bulls record, that would have meant frank was a major, major project, and many would have been completely turned off by the pick.

your the guy who going on and on abut how this would never be anything but a losing culture under Mills and Hornecek. Now your saying isnt this better than tanking? Whatever. Go revisit the "how long before Hornecek is fired" junk you started. Sucka

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:I like this:

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/940249015853207552

Click here to view the Tweet

This tweet conflates numbers with aggresiveness. Its not Frank's PPG thats an issue, its Frank passing on many opportunities to score. Most of those players werent PGs either. More important for a PG to get to the rim, in part to make it easier on their teammates.

i would add that Butler was the 30th pick in the draft and Gianni's was 15th. Guys that scouted Gianni's raved about his potential but going 8th in a strong draft is going to up the expectations.

+100

Add that Giannis was a 6'11" freak. Which is main reason he has become a huge scorer. Some just dont understand tgis was about the type of player that should be taken at an 8 and not Frank. Its a simple argument. Think its just Old school guys not paying attention to where the NBA is and is heading. GS and Houston have tremendous scorers. And none of them were unable to adapt to a collective defensive unit. This notion that Frank can become a very good scorer but high level offensive players are unable to become sound defenders is short sighted. Some of us think it's easier to teach Steph Curry to be part of a good defensive scheme while others think they can teach Frank to be Steph Curry. Just look at Macbuckets amd Kanter.

Btw. Was at Laker game last night and Frank looked great. If he keeps getting more confident with his jumper and more aggressive on drives, he will become a very good point guard.

I get the notion. But I think you have just sold Frank specifically short. You made a mention of where the NBA is headed. Frank is a player that could potentially guard 3 positions. Frank potentially could play on and off ball offensively and play multiple positions offensively. Frank could potentially play multiple roles for a team and given different assignments through out a game. Flexibility like that is were the NBA he headed. And Frank while he may not have a scorers mentality in the slightest at the moment. He has displayed the skill to score in a variety of ways. He can get buckets in the flow of a game from 3, pull up jumpers, post ups, and hopefully penetration lol. His willingness and ability to pass, His ability and willingness to defend, to go with his over sized frame and arms giving him a physical advantage over most guards defensively. He isn't a 21-22 yr old college junior or senior who developed his game and body over the yrs. He is 19 yrs old who hasn't come close to developing physically. Growing in the hardest position in the NBA.

exactly... if there is an NBA trend its position-less basketball. When Frank is on a big because of a switch its literally fun to watch. He's tough to shoot over and he's even tougher to pass around.

Sorry.. great 2-way players are not easy pickings anywhere. Teams get lucky late sometimes, but that is most certainly NOT a trend. Lets see... a PG who had already shown strong play vs. grown men at 18 years old, 6'5 with a 7'0 wingspan and the last time he played against his peers he was essentially declared the best young guard in EU and Hosfstra says "naa... not with the 8th pick. Not good enough." I mean you just kinda shrug at that. I get that guy's had their ponies and favorites in the race but how people see Frank after 25 games in the NBA and *STILL* dont think he was worth the 8th pick is funny. He looks pretty good to me, but hey, I like triangle guards

Of the 4 guards we were looking at in Smith, Monk, Ntilikina and Mitchell they ALL were worthy of the 8th pick. If you had to rank them based on their first 20ish games Mitchell has looked the best, followed by Frank, then Dennis Smith and Monk has really struggled.

What's also interesting is that Phil Jackson the fossil that he was bring antiquated styles. Was willing to select unique players like KP and Frank who are clear representations of modern bball.

KP was the obvious pick @ 4....If Jahili Okafor had slipped, you better believe phil would have taken Jahlil over KP.

How does he slip? It as a 4 player then a big drop after. It was Towns, Oka4, KP. The suprise was lakers taking Russell. So who comes in over Russell to create Oka4 and KP there at the 4?
It’s on record Gaines implored Phil to take KP if we had the no. 1 pick.

what do you have other than blind hate that makes you say Phil picks Oka4 over KP?

Nothing blind about the reasons I hated phils tenure here...Even Stevie can glance had phils resume here and rejoice at the fact that that dude is on a Monatana ranch rather than in the Knicks front office or falling asleep at draft camps....

Based on what was being reported at the time; based on the needs of a post-up big in the triangle, there were reports that phil liked Ok4 had the Knicks not fallen out of the top 3....

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:I like this:

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/940249015853207552

Click here to view the Tweet

This tweet conflates numbers with aggresiveness. Its not Frank's PPG thats an issue, its Frank passing on many opportunities to score. Most of those players werent PGs either. More important for a PG to get to the rim, in part to make it easier on their teammates.

i would add that Butler was the 30th pick in the draft and Gianni's was 15th. Guys that scouted Gianni's raved about his potential but going 8th in a strong draft is going to up the expectations.

+100

Add that Giannis was a 6'11" freak. Which is main reason he has become a huge scorer. Some just dont understand tgis was about the type of player that should be taken at an 8 and not Frank. Its a simple argument. Think its just Old school guys not paying attention to where the NBA is and is heading. GS and Houston have tremendous scorers. And none of them were unable to adapt to a collective defensive unit. This notion that Frank can become a very good scorer but high level offensive players are unable to become sound defenders is short sighted. Some of us think it's easier to teach Steph Curry to be part of a good defensive scheme while others think they can teach Frank to be Steph Curry. Just look at Macbuckets amd Kanter.

Btw. Was at Laker game last night and Frank looked great. If he keeps getting more confident with his jumper and more aggressive on drives, he will become a very good point guard.

I get the notion. But I think you have just sold Frank specifically short. You made a mention of where the NBA is headed. Frank is a player that could potentially guard 3 positions. Frank potentially could play on and off ball offensively and play multiple positions offensively. Frank could potentially play multiple roles for a team and given different assignments through out a game. Flexibility like that is were the NBA he headed. And Frank while he may not have a scorers mentality in the slightest at the moment. He has displayed the skill to score in a variety of ways. He can get buckets in the flow of a game from 3, pull up jumpers, post ups, and hopefully penetration lol. His willingness and ability to pass, His ability and willingness to defend, to go with his over sized frame and arms giving him a physical advantage over most guards defensively. He isn't a 21-22 yr old college junior or senior who developed his game and body over the yrs. He is 19 yrs old who hasn't come close to developing physically. Growing in the hardest position in the NBA.

exactly... if there is an NBA trend its position-less basketball. When Frank is on a big because of a switch its literally fun to watch. He's tough to shoot over and he's even tougher to pass around.

Sorry.. great 2-way players are not easy pickings anywhere. Teams get lucky late sometimes, but that is most certainly NOT a trend. Lets see... a PG who had already shown strong play vs. grown men at 18 years old, 6'5 with a 7'0 wingspan and the last time he played against his peers he was essentially declared the best young guard in EU and Hosfstra says "naa... not with the 8th pick. Not good enough." I mean you just kinda shrug at that. I get that guy's had their ponies and favorites in the race but how people see Frank after 25 games in the NBA and *STILL* dont think he was worth the 8th pick is funny. He looks pretty good to me, but hey, I like triangle guards

Of the 4 guards we were looking at in Smith, Monk, Ntilikina and Mitchell they ALL were worthy of the 8th pick. If you had to rank them based on their first 20ish games Mitchell has looked the best, followed by Frank, then Dennis Smith and Monk has really struggled.

What's also interesting is that Phil Jackson the fossil that he was bring antiquated styles. Was willing to select unique players like KP and Frank who are clear representations of modern bball.

KP was the obvious pick @ 4....If Jahili Okafor had slipped, you better believe phil would have taken Jahlil over KP.

How does he slip? It as a 4 player then a big drop after. It was Towns, Oka4, KP. The suprise was lakers taking Russell. So who comes in over Russell to create Oka4 and KP there at the 4?
It’s on record Gaines implored Phil to take KP if we had the no. 1 pick.

what do you have other than blind hate that makes you say Phil picks Oka4 over KP?

Maybe Gaines talks Phil into still picking KP, but I thought it was common knowledge that Phil would've taken Okafor if he were available.

common knowledge isnt very useful on draft day. I mean I think every draft board everywhere had Towns/OK4/Russel in some 1/2/3 order so common knowledge had us taking one of them, UNTIL we fell to 4. I think its just that simple. The notion of dropping out of top 3 "saving Phil from taking OK4" isnt really fair. At all. Nobody knew the top scout in the Knicks org thought KP was the best player in the draft and was pushing the Knicks to take him no matter where they picked. I am not saying Knicks would have followed that direction. I am saying however that there was a lot of common knowledge that was not common.

Anywho I am just loving the mental make up of this team. These guys all want to win.

You are right Fish!!! I stand corrected, the wording on my original post was wrong...We did fall out of the top 3 and slipped to 4. Had we been in the top 3, I belive phil takes Ok4. He was the ideal big for the Triangle....

There is your belief and there is this:

martin wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Common knowledge? Based on what?

Here's one take:

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/Delblogo/status/941212664130400256

Click here to view the Tweet

Look lets not get sidetracked by the always important task of ensuring Phil doesnt get too much credit for anything and go back to focusing Frank, one of the best young PGs in the league and a 19 defensive phenom. Phuck I love triangle guards. What can I say... Im just super biased

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Welpee wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Uptown wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

fishmike wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

martin wrote:I like this:

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/NewEraKnicks/status/940249015853207552

Click here to view the Tweet

This tweet conflates numbers with aggresiveness. Its not Frank's PPG thats an issue, its Frank passing on many opportunities to score. Most of those players werent PGs either. More important for a PG to get to the rim, in part to make it easier on their teammates.

i would add that Butler was the 30th pick in the draft and Gianni's was 15th. Guys that scouted Gianni's raved about his potential but going 8th in a strong draft is going to up the expectations.

+100

Add that Giannis was a 6'11" freak. Which is main reason he has become a huge scorer. Some just dont understand tgis was about the type of player that should be taken at an 8 and not Frank. Its a simple argument. Think its just Old school guys not paying attention to where the NBA is and is heading. GS and Houston have tremendous scorers. And none of them were unable to adapt to a collective defensive unit. This notion that Frank can become a very good scorer but high level offensive players are unable to become sound defenders is short sighted. Some of us think it's easier to teach Steph Curry to be part of a good defensive scheme while others think they can teach Frank to be Steph Curry. Just look at Macbuckets amd Kanter.

Btw. Was at Laker game last night and Frank looked great. If he keeps getting more confident with his jumper and more aggressive on drives, he will become a very good point guard.

I get the notion. But I think you have just sold Frank specifically short. You made a mention of where the NBA is headed. Frank is a player that could potentially guard 3 positions. Frank potentially could play on and off ball offensively and play multiple positions offensively. Frank could potentially play multiple roles for a team and given different assignments through out a game. Flexibility like that is were the NBA he headed. And Frank while he may not have a scorers mentality in the slightest at the moment. He has displayed the skill to score in a variety of ways. He can get buckets in the flow of a game from 3, pull up jumpers, post ups, and hopefully penetration lol. His willingness and ability to pass, His ability and willingness to defend, to go with his over sized frame and arms giving him a physical advantage over most guards defensively. He isn't a 21-22 yr old college junior or senior who developed his game and body over the yrs. He is 19 yrs old who hasn't come close to developing physically. Growing in the hardest position in the NBA.

exactly... if there is an NBA trend its position-less basketball. When Frank is on a big because of a switch its literally fun to watch. He's tough to shoot over and he's even tougher to pass around.

Sorry.. great 2-way players are not easy pickings anywhere. Teams get lucky late sometimes, but that is most certainly NOT a trend. Lets see... a PG who had already shown strong play vs. grown men at 18 years old, 6'5 with a 7'0 wingspan and the last time he played against his peers he was essentially declared the best young guard in EU and Hosfstra says "naa... not with the 8th pick. Not good enough." I mean you just kinda shrug at that. I get that guy's had their ponies and favorites in the race but how people see Frank after 25 games in the NBA and *STILL* dont think he was worth the 8th pick is funny. He looks pretty good to me, but hey, I like triangle guards

Of the 4 guards we were looking at in Smith, Monk, Ntilikina and Mitchell they ALL were worthy of the 8th pick. If you had to rank them based on their first 20ish games Mitchell has looked the best, followed by Frank, then Dennis Smith and Monk has really struggled.

What's also interesting is that Phil Jackson the fossil that he was bring antiquated styles. Was willing to select unique players like KP and Frank who are clear representations of modern bball.

KP was the obvious pick @ 4....If Jahili Okafor had slipped, you better believe phil would have taken Jahlil over KP.

How does he slip? It as a 4 player then a big drop after. It was Towns, Oka4, KP. The suprise was lakers taking Russell. So who comes in over Russell to create Oka4 and KP there at the 4?
It’s on record Gaines implored Phil to take KP if we had the no. 1 pick.

what do you have other than blind hate that makes you say Phil picks Oka4 over KP?

Maybe Gaines talks Phil into still picking KP, but I thought it was common knowledge that Phil would've taken Okafor if he were available.

common knowledge isnt very useful on draft day. I mean I think every draft board everywhere had Towns/OK4/Russel in some 1/2/3 order so common knowledge had us taking one of them, UNTIL we fell to 4. I think its just that simple. The notion of dropping out of top 3 "saving Phil from taking OK4" isnt really fair. At all. Nobody knew the top scout in the Knicks org thought KP was the best player in the draft and was pushing the Knicks to take him no matter where they picked. I am not saying Knicks would have followed that direction. I am saying however that there was a lot of common knowledge that was not common.

Anywho I am just loving the mental make up of this team. These guys all want to win.

You are right Fish!!! I stand corrected, the wording on my original post was wrong...We did fall out of the top 3 and slipped to 4. Had we been in the top 3, I belive phil takes Ok4. He was the ideal big for the Triangle....

There is your belief and there is this:

martin wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Common knowledge? Based on what?

Here's one take:

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/Delblogo/status/941212664130400256

Click here to view the Tweet

Your take specifically points out the 4th pick...says nothing of what would have happend if we landed the 3rd pick....KP or Cauley Stein? hmmm...tough choice...Speaking of triangle point guards, I'm kind of biased towards triangle PG's aswell; Pippen, Jordan and Kobe...

Besides Willy. One thing Phil's draft picks always had was defensive potential.

Frank is a Phil/Gaines pick and just like KP, he is a very unique talent. As I’ve said he’s like a PG version of Kawhi. Some people hate on Phil and the Triangle and so they aren’t appreciating Frank is a Triangle type of PG. He’s effective in a Half Court Motion Offense. That’s not a bad thing!

Frank is not the current flavor of the month Penetrating, dunking, Scoring PG. Thing is that’s not the only way to play PG. He just needs to develop his own game and style going forward. So far Frank is showing good progress.