Knicks · Give Me Your Ntilikina Evaluation (page 7)

nixluva @ 12/14/2017 3:31 PM
Frank is a Phil/Gaines pick and just like KP, he is a very unique talent. As I’ve said he’s like a PG version of Kawhi. Some people hate on Phil and the Triangle and so they aren’t appreciating Frank is a Triangle type of PG. He’s effective in a Half Court Motion Offense. That’s not a bad thing!

Frank is not the current flavor of the month Penetrating, dunking, Scoring PG. Thing is that’s not the only way to play PG. He just needs to develop his own game and style going forward. So far Frank is showing good progress.

StarksEwing1 @ 12/14/2017 4:20 PM
nixluva wrote:Frank is a Phil/Gaines pick and just like KP, he is a very unique talent. As I’ve said he’s like a PG version of Kawhi. Some people hate on Phil and the Triangle and so they aren’t appreciating Frank is a Triangle type of PG. He’s effective in a Half Court Motion Offense. That’s not a bad thing!

Frank is not the current flavor of the month Penetrating, dunking, Scoring PG. Thing is that’s not the only way to play PG. He just needs to develop his own game and style going forward. So far Frank is showing good progress.

agreed
Welpee @ 12/14/2017 7:44 PM
martin wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Common knowledge? Based on what?

Here's one take:

But what does that prove? He knew he was drafting 4th and it was unlikely Towns, Okafor or Russell would be available.
nyknickzingis @ 12/14/2017 10:05 PM
Phil knows talent. He got Ron Baker, Lance Thomas, Kyle O'Quinn. CLee. These guys are role players who right now are essential in helping the Knicks be a competitive team. The whole problem with Phil was his obsession with the Triangle and his inexperience as a GM/Trade man. He didn't seem to care much for trades or make good ones. That's why he could have messed up the Melo trade, he didn't do well with the Rose or JR Smith/Shump/Chandler deals either. However his ability to scout the right young talent or role players that know how to win is being proven. He knew KP was special. He knew Frank's defense was special. I for one am happy the Knicks had Phil the time they did, because he made some very critical decisions and moves that were needed for the longterm health of the franchise.
CrushAlot @ 12/14/2017 11:27 PM
Welpee wrote:
martin wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Common knowledge? Based on what?

Here's one take:

But what does that prove? He knew he was drafting 4th and it was unlikely Towns, Okafor or Russell would be available.
From the Phil Files,
The widely held assumption is that, should the Knicks secure the top pick, it's a tossup between whether Jackson would go with either Okafor or Towns. However, after recently watching Kentucky play and witnessing one of their practice sessions, Jackson has this to say about Towns: "For sure, he's a better defender than Okafor, but even in the limited minutes he got during the season, Towns was always in foul trouble. Also, he's not very core-strong. Plus, his big feet will make it difficult for him to maneuver through heavy traffic in the paint. I think in four years Towns will be a better NBA player that Okafor, but Okafor is more NBA-ready right now and we need help ASAP."

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/13347...
Uptown @ 12/15/2017 5:49 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
Welpee wrote:
martin wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Common knowledge? Based on what?

Here's one take:

But what does that prove? He knew he was drafting 4th and it was unlikely Towns, Okafor or Russell would be available.
From the Phil Files,
The widely held assumption is that, should the Knicks secure the top pick, it's a tossup between whether Jackson would go with either Okafor or Towns. However, after recently watching Kentucky play and witnessing one of their practice sessions, Jackson has this to say about Towns: "For sure, he's a better defender than Okafor, but even in the limited minutes he got during the season, Towns was always in foul trouble. Also, he's not very core-strong. Plus, his big feet will make it difficult for him to maneuver through heavy traffic in the paint. I think in four years Towns will be a better NBA player that Okafor, but Okafor is more NBA-ready right now and we need help ASAP."

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/13347...

Thanks for finding this!!! I knew I read an article about phils infatuation with Ok4...

Jmpasq @ 12/15/2017 7:53 AM
WaltLongmire wrote:He needs to be consistently confident with his shot...and we are seeing signs of this. The mid-range pull-up off the screen could end up being his go to shot and allow him to "dominate" short periods of time in a game on offense.

Strange, but for a guy who is supposed to be a more conservative "system" player he makes some pretty flashy passes...and you can see that for the most part he is always looking for his teammates...sometimes too much so. But he's made some no-lookers and thread the needle type passes worthy of the highlight reels.

Also needs to learn to go to the basket and take the foul. He seems to be penetrating more, but it is almost always to set up a pass. He's going to learn when to pass and when to look for his own points, but I've seen progress, and that is the most important thing for me right now.

He is very hesitant I believe he should of taken the last shot the other night vs the Lakers. Held the ball without any dribble penetration and gave KP a contested off balanced look. I really don't mind him forcing the issue some its better for the team long term. I could really care less about anyone on the roster right now outside of KP, Frank, Willy and Hardaway "who we are tied to". Everyone else is either washed up or will be gone next year

fishmike @ 12/15/2017 9:02 AM
Uptown wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Welpee wrote:
martin wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Common knowledge? Based on what?

Here's one take:

But what does that prove? He knew he was drafting 4th and it was unlikely Towns, Okafor or Russell would be available.
From the Phil Files,
The widely held assumption is that, should the Knicks secure the top pick, it's a tossup between whether Jackson would go with either Okafor or Towns. However, after recently watching Kentucky play and witnessing one of their practice sessions, Jackson has this to say about Towns: "For sure, he's a better defender than Okafor, but even in the limited minutes he got during the season, Towns was always in foul trouble. Also, he's not very core-strong. Plus, his big feet will make it difficult for him to maneuver through heavy traffic in the paint. I think in four years Towns will be a better NBA player that Okafor, but Okafor is more NBA-ready right now and we need help ASAP."

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/13347...

Thanks for finding this!!! I knew I read an article about phils infatuation with Ok4...

validation! Uptown, now you can feel better about Phil backing into the KP pick do you still feel Frank is a "low value selection" with the 8th pick?
newyorknewyork @ 12/15/2017 9:44 AM
fishmike wrote:
Uptown wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Welpee wrote:
martin wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Common knowledge? Based on what?

Here's one take:

But what does that prove? He knew he was drafting 4th and it was unlikely Towns, Okafor or Russell would be available.
From the Phil Files,
The widely held assumption is that, should the Knicks secure the top pick, it's a tossup between whether Jackson would go with either Okafor or Towns. However, after recently watching Kentucky play and witnessing one of their practice sessions, Jackson has this to say about Towns: "For sure, he's a better defender than Okafor, but even in the limited minutes he got during the season, Towns was always in foul trouble. Also, he's not very core-strong. Plus, his big feet will make it difficult for him to maneuver through heavy traffic in the paint. I think in four years Towns will be a better NBA player that Okafor, but Okafor is more NBA-ready right now and we need help ASAP."

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/13347...

Thanks for finding this!!! I knew I read an article about phils infatuation with Ok4...

validation! Uptown, now you can feel better about Phil backing into the KP pick do you still feel Frank is a "low value selection" with the 8th pick?

And then this happen. You know at ACTUAL pre draft NBA workouts.

Rag EEVE
2 years ago
A scout just called him the best player in the draft after this workout 
Uptown @ 12/15/2017 9:46 AM
fishmike wrote:
Uptown wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Welpee wrote:
martin wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Common knowledge? Based on what?

Here's one take:

But what does that prove? He knew he was drafting 4th and it was unlikely Towns, Okafor or Russell would be available.
From the Phil Files,
The widely held assumption is that, should the Knicks secure the top pick, it's a tossup between whether Jackson would go with either Okafor or Towns. However, after recently watching Kentucky play and witnessing one of their practice sessions, Jackson has this to say about Towns: "For sure, he's a better defender than Okafor, but even in the limited minutes he got during the season, Towns was always in foul trouble. Also, he's not very core-strong. Plus, his big feet will make it difficult for him to maneuver through heavy traffic in the paint. I think in four years Towns will be a better NBA player that Okafor, but Okafor is more NBA-ready right now and we need help ASAP."

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/13347...

Thanks for finding this!!! I knew I read an article about phils infatuation with Ok4...

validation! Uptown, now you can feel better about Phil backing into the KP pick do you still feel Frank is a "low value selection" with the 8th pick?

Nah...I feel great about the way KP is progressing and the way the Knicks are playing. I feel even better that the "Circus" no longer resides at the Garden. I'm on record as saying I would have picked DSJ in june but Frank is a Knick, so I'm rooting for him so succeed. His success = Knick success.

Ira @ 12/15/2017 10:23 AM
Frank played more minutes than JJ the last two games and the same number of minutes the game before those two. I love the way Hornacek is bringing him along and the way he runs the offense. He seems to have cut down on those silly turnovers that he used to commit.
fishmike @ 12/15/2017 10:30 AM
Uptown wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Uptown wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Welpee wrote:
martin wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Common knowledge? Based on what?

Here's one take:

But what does that prove? He knew he was drafting 4th and it was unlikely Towns, Okafor or Russell would be available.
From the Phil Files,
The widely held assumption is that, should the Knicks secure the top pick, it's a tossup between whether Jackson would go with either Okafor or Towns. However, after recently watching Kentucky play and witnessing one of their practice sessions, Jackson has this to say about Towns: "For sure, he's a better defender than Okafor, but even in the limited minutes he got during the season, Towns was always in foul trouble. Also, he's not very core-strong. Plus, his big feet will make it difficult for him to maneuver through heavy traffic in the paint. I think in four years Towns will be a better NBA player that Okafor, but Okafor is more NBA-ready right now and we need help ASAP."

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/13347...

Thanks for finding this!!! I knew I read an article about phils infatuation with Ok4...

validation! Uptown, now you can feel better about Phil backing into the KP pick do you still feel Frank is a "low value selection" with the 8th pick?

Nah...I feel great about the way KP is progressing and the way the Knicks are playing. I feel even better that the "Circus" no longer resides at the Garden. I'm on record as saying I would have picked DSJ in june but Frank is a Knick, so I'm rooting for him so succeed. His success = Knick success.

totally agree... trading Melo was the biggest step to turning this franchise around.

As for Phil at the end of the day he was a godsend. He drafted Frank and KP. He god Dolan out of the mix. He was an absolute fool in the media and how he dealt with Melo but the bottom line is Phil paved the way for some critical things that hadnt happened in Dolan's MSG. Ever. We got rid of him at the perfect time.

Bottom line? Phil came in we had the Melo/Tyson crew. He left us with KP/Frank/Hornecek. The only lingering pain we are left with is Noah. Im not a Phil fan myself but if you look at the state of the franchise he took over vs. the state of if when he was let go Knick fans should be very grateful for this 3 years here.

Again... Phil was jettisoned at the perfect time... right before he could phuck up a Melo trade. But he left us with good young talent and set the next crew up for success. How much success time will tell.

Frank is easily my favorite Knick right now. He's the anti Melo, anti iso me-first culture. All he wants to do is win take on a challenge. Kids has heart, a high BB IQ and the wingspan of a praying mantis

Allanfan20 @ 12/15/2017 10:35 AM
Ira wrote:Frank played more minutes than JJ the last two games and the same number of minutes the game before those two. I love the way Hornacek is bringing him along and the way he runs the offense. He seems to have cut down on those silly turnovers that he used to commit.

I understand he’s not quite as explosive as other guards but I would love to see him attack the basket on the fast breaks the way he did that one time last night. I actually came away impressed even though it was “just” a lay-up. It will really open up his passing options once he starts doing that more.

newyorknewyork @ 12/15/2017 11:24 AM
Allanfan20 wrote:
Ira wrote:Frank played more minutes than JJ the last two games and the same number of minutes the game before those two. I love the way Hornacek is bringing him along and the way he runs the offense. He seems to have cut down on those silly turnovers that he used to commit.

I understand he’s not quite as explosive as other guards but I would love to see him attack the basket on the fast breaks the way he did that one time last night. I actually came away impressed even though it was “just” a lay-up. It will really open up his passing options once he starts doing that more.

He has length which you can't teach. I believe he may not have that arsenal of finishing moves that he is confident in as well confidence he can take contact and still finish. Once he has confidence in his ability to absorb contact and confidence in his ability to use his length and in his skill level to finish. He will become more aggressive attacking in these scenarios. Confidence breeds aggressiveness, practice breeds confidence.

nyknickzingis @ 12/15/2017 11:35 AM
If Phil was so high on Okafor, why is that since Okafor has been on the trade block the last 2 years, that Phil didn't try to get him even once? If you're truly in love with a player, you see that player available in the future, you go grab him right away. Phil almost always takes the advice of Gaines, and Gaines is the one that sold him on KP. I don't get this inability to give Phil Jackson any credit for the moves he made that set the team up for a long time. KP, Frank, even role players like Lance, Ron, CLee. Willy was drafted in the second round, and is a solid trade asset if we decide to not keep him (but we should).

You can be bad at trades but still do good elsewhere. Jackson screwed up some trades, but drafting and longterm wise he set the Knicks up big time. We made out like bandits, considering we never really had a top 1 or 2 pick or were able to draft every single year up there. For all the talk about the young Lakers team we beat a few days ago, you look at where they drafted every year to get those guys. And in KP/Frank/Willy we have something to combat what they have despite not even having close to the same draft position or volume of picks. Come on, only a Phil hater wouldn't see the good he did in NY. There was bad, but there was definitely some good, especially for the longterm.

fishmike @ 12/15/2017 11:58 AM
nyknickzingis wrote:If Phil was so high on Okafor, why is that since Okafor has been on the trade block the last 2 years, that Phil didn't try to get him even once? If you're truly in love with a player, you see that player available in the future, you go grab him right away. Phil almost always takes the advice of Gaines, and Gaines is the one that sold him on KP. I don't get this inability to give Phil Jackson any credit for the moves he made that set the team up for a long time. KP, Frank, even role players like Lance, Ron, CLee. Willy was drafted in the second round, and is a solid trade asset if we decide to not keep him (but we should).

You can be bad at trades but still do good elsewhere. Jackson screwed up some trades, but drafting and longterm wise he set the Knicks up big time. We made out like bandits, considering we never really had a top 1 or 2 pick or were able to draft every single year up there. For all the talk about the young Lakers team we beat a few days ago, you look at where they drafted every year to get those guys. And in KP/Frank/Willy we have something to combat what they have despite not even having close to the same draft position or volume of picks. Come on, only a Phil hater wouldn't see the good he did in NY. There was bad, but there was definitely some good, especially for the longterm.

its not about what Phil actually did, its how do you *feel* about it.
Phil was bad with trades and terrible with the media. Phil was key in purging the old and getting Dolan out of the basketball operations. Phil was huge here. Actually have to give Mills some credit. For what its worth he kept the good that Phil did and brought in someone to manage the parts he was terrible at (staring with Melo trade). We needed those 3 years of Phil, and he left us much better off than when he came.

btw I loved OK4 in that draft and could not have been more wrong. After KP, Willy and the some of the undrafted guys they looked at or brought in I felt pretty good about our eye for new talent. My thought on Frank was simply trust. So far I love triangle guards!

Ira @ 12/15/2017 12:09 PM
Allanfan20 wrote:
Ira wrote:Frank played more minutes than JJ the last two games and the same number of minutes the game before those two. I love the way Hornacek is bringing him along and the way he runs the offense. He seems to have cut down on those silly turnovers that he used to commit.

I understand he’s not quite as explosive as other guards but I would love to see him attack the basket on the fast breaks the way he did that one time last night. I actually came away impressed even though it was “just” a lay-up. It will really open up his passing options once he starts doing that more.

He's moving in that direction. He's becoming more confident about taking it to the hoop and taking the 3. He's been working on a lot of things and his game is just starting to come together. He'll probably move into the starting lineup before long.

nixluva @ 12/15/2017 12:10 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Uptown wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Welpee wrote:
martin wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:Common knowledge? Based on what?

Here's one take:

But what does that prove? He knew he was drafting 4th and it was unlikely Towns, Okafor or Russell would be available.
From the Phil Files,
The widely held assumption is that, should the Knicks secure the top pick, it's a tossup between whether Jackson would go with either Okafor or Towns. However, after recently watching Kentucky play and witnessing one of their practice sessions, Jackson has this to say about Towns: "For sure, he's a better defender than Okafor, but even in the limited minutes he got during the season, Towns was always in foul trouble. Also, he's not very core-strong. Plus, his big feet will make it difficult for him to maneuver through heavy traffic in the paint. I think in four years Towns will be a better NBA player that Okafor, but Okafor is more NBA-ready right now and we need help ASAP."

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/13347...

Thanks for finding this!!! I knew I read an article about phils infatuation with Ok4...

validation! Uptown, now you can feel better about Phil backing into the KP pick do you still feel Frank is a "low value selection" with the 8th pick?

And then this happen. You know at ACTUAL pre draft NBA workouts.

Rag EEVE
2 years ago
A scout just called him the best player in the draft after this workout 

Also Phil made it Crystal Clear what his thinking was on what he was looking for in the draft:

However, in selecting that talent look for the Knicks to think defense first. That’s what team president Phil Jackson told season ticket holders at an event Thursday, reports Ian Begley of ESPN.

“Gotta have a defender,” Jackson said. “… That’s a good starting point — a guy like Tyson Chandler (whom the Knicks traded over the summer) is the defensive backup that we have to have. In this day and age in our game, there are so many screen and rolls, so many 3-point shooters, so many things that a player of size has to (do). Not only cover the paint and protect the basket but he has to be able to step out defensively and play a guard. And do some defensive work on the extreme part of the floor so it’s very important that that player have defensive capabilities.”

That answer came in relation to a question about the draft. It suggests that should the Knicks land the top pick; they are among the growing number of teams leaning toward Kentucky’s Karl Towns over Duke’s Jahlil Okafor. Towns is the better defender (and the better free throw shooter).


http://nba.nbcsports.com/2015/04/03/phil...
newyorker4ever @ 12/15/2017 2:34 PM
And i thought i was clicking into a thread about Frank
dacash @ 12/15/2017 2:45 PM
newyorker4ever wrote:And i thought i was clicking into a thread about Frank

every thread goes into a I say you say thing .
horny is bringing frank along very good. he is easing him into things running plays for him and Frank is responding so it's all good
CrushAlot @ 12/15/2017 5:05 PM
nyknickzingis wrote:If Phil was so high on Okafor, why is that since Okafor has been on the trade block the last 2 years, that Phil didn't try to get him even once? If you're truly in love with a player, you see that player available in the future, you go grab him right away. Phil almost always takes the advice of Gaines, and Gaines is the one that sold him on KP. I don't get this inability to give Phil Jackson any credit for the moves he made that set the team up for a long time. KP, Frank, even role players like Lance, Ron, CLee. Willy was drafted in the second round, and is a solid trade asset if we decide to not keep him (but we should).

You can be bad at trades but still do good elsewhere. Jackson screwed up some trades, but drafting and longterm wise he set the Knicks up big time. We made out like bandits, considering we never really had a top 1 or 2 pick or were able to draft every single year up there. For all the talk about the young Lakers team we beat a few days ago, you look at where they drafted every year to get those guys. And in KP/Frank/Willy we have something to combat what they have despite not even having close to the same draft position or volume of picks. Come on, only a Phil hater wouldn't see the good he did in NY. There was bad, but there was definitely some good, especially for the longterm.

His quote is what he said in his interview with his buddy before the draft. Maybe he acquired so many centers that he had his fill when Okafor became available in a trade. Okafor had already been picked when the Knick's picked at 4 and KP probably is off the board if Okafor is there. The Knicks got the right guy and that is what matters big picture. Winning those last few games in 15 put the Knicks in a position where KP was the best guy available and Phil's fondness for an nba ready post player couldn't get in the way of the advice of his top scout.
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