Knicks · Is a smaller more versatile center better for a team with KP? (page 1)

Its one thing if you can get a shaq or something like that--but in reality--hard to come by. Is it better to counter with a player like Luke Maye---someone who is 6-9 245 and can bang defensively but do much more aesthetically on the offensive side than a player who is simply banging the low post?

If your 5 can move in/out handle shoot and pass--does that make KP more effective?

You would want a versatile more mobile guy in the rotation absolutely. Need to have both options. Don't know if Maye is or isn't that guy, but ideally yea.

His face looks like he is Kevin Loves brother in this highlight.

newyorknewyork wrote:You would want a versatile more mobile guy in the rotation absolutely. Need to have both options. Don't know if Maye is or isn't that guy, but ideally yea.

His face looks like he is Kevin Loves brother in this highlight.

I think we have three picks again. My hope is we can trade one or BOTH of Kanter and Lee for cap space and a pick--even if that pick 20-25. I dont think were going to get any of the guys at the absolute top--so Im hoping a PG that we may want is there(10 or lower)

After that--we need a 3 and 4/5. Im looking more at guys that I think might fit the Knicks than what the draft experts might think. Maye has been off the radar a bit but playing really well and I think youre not far off with the K love comparison.

Could Randle be that guy? He has looked great whenever I have seen him and the Lakers have Nance and Kuzma.

Do you mean someone like Sabonis?

BRIGGS wrote:I think we have three picks again. My hope is we can trade one or BOTH of Kanter and Lee for cap space and a pick--even if that pick 20-25.

What team in the NBA is going to have 30+ million in expiring contracts and give up a late first rounder to essentially lock them out of this offseason's free agency?

Or, said non Knicks team could draft a player, cost controlled, with that pick, then use the open cap space to try to sign some bargains since many teams will be in the tax zone or cap locked.

You are really asking for a non Knicks GM to set his own job on fire.

The base problem is always the same. You fall in love with multiple players. You don't care about value of slotting or value of player tiers in the draft. You don't care about how general consensus on player rankings create a push/pull environment of the actual NBA marketplace. The only way you can get multiple players you want is to trade players who can't be traded easily or there exists no trade market for them. Or to "split an asset", which only seems applicable to other pro sports. I.E. trading one pick for multiple lower picks.

How did Philly and Boston stockpile so many assets? So they could burn picks on volume like you'd want to do?

They made good market based decisions. They were realistic to actual market forces.

Knicks made some pretty horrible long range market based decisions and now they are stuck with them. You can't just unpack something like that, a legacy like that, not with the actual NBA contract structure.

You need both types of players. You start Kanter next to him so Porzingis doesn't have to work as hard for boards and doesn't get doubled as much, but you need quality combo forwards (like Lance but better) to plug in when you need faster lineups.

Can Aaron Gordon fit the bill? I think he is only 6"9' and not particularly lengthy but I've been under the impression that he'd compliment Kristaps exceedingly well. AG is basically a Swiss-Army knife at that spot and I could see him being something of a poor man's Draymond Green. The only real concern I'd have of him is his tendency to be a weak rebounder from his position. That aside, he would have been a guy I maxed this offseason if we had the money and were not so stacked at the 4/5 spots.

CrushAlot wrote:Could Randle be that guy? He has looked great whenever I have seen him and the Lakers have Nance and Kuzma.

I was intrigued with the idea of him as well. But Randle's energy level/aggressiveness seems to ebb and flow too often for me to be comfortable investing big money in him. I think much of my interest would depend on his asking price and whether we could clear the ensuing logjam at the 5 spot.

NardDogNation wrote:Can Aaron Gordon fit the bill? I think he is only 6"9' and not particularly lengthy but I've been under the impression that he'd compliment Kristaps exceedingly well. AG is basically a Swiss-Army knife at that spot and I could see him being something of a poor man's Draymond Green. The only real concern I'd have of him is his tendency to be a weak rebounder from his position. That aside, he would have been a guy I maxed this offseason if we had the money and were not so stacked at the 4/5 spots.

This has been Gordon's break out year. He is gonna command max money. Question is has he settled in at PF? No way Orlando lets him walk though.

Side note he looks just like Aaron Judge and would have a field day here with that. Said in the off season he was gonna come to NY to pretend to be Judge.

Doesn't that describe Kyle O'Quinn? I'm not sure why everyone hates on him, I think he's a great complement to KP. Mobile, good offensive rebounder, and TOUGH

knickstorrents wrote:Doesn't that describe Kyle O'Quinn? I'm not sure why everyone hates on him, I think he's a great complement to KP. Mobile, good offensive rebounder, and TOUGH

O'Quinn is a nice backup but he isnt quite good enough offensively for this current roster. Now if you plug a superstar 20ppg scorer at SF and a better starting PG well then you may have enough. We need a Draymond Green clone. Greens passing and defense would make this team a 5 seed

Jmpasq wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:Doesn't that describe Kyle O'Quinn? I'm not sure why everyone hates on him, I think he's a great complement to KP. Mobile, good offensive rebounder, and TOUGH

O'Quinn is a nice backup but he isnt quite good enough offensively for this current roster. Now if you plug a superstar 20ppg scorer at SF and a better starting PG well then you may have enough. We need a Draymond Green clone. Greens passing and defense would make this team a 5 seed

The team is having no trouble scoring points when KOQ plays and he's giving 13 points and 5 assists per 36 min (and 13 rbs and 2 blks). I'm not saying he'd actually put those #s up if he got 36 mpg (those are starting all-star #s!) but we wouldn't need him to. At this point I'd say that at half or a third the price, he'd be a much better use of assets than Kanter.

If the team is really smart, they're keeping KOQ's value down because he's the center they plan to keep. Then again, if they were really smart, they wouldn't let Kanter play when he needs crutches.

NardDogNation wrote:Can Aaron Gordon fit the bill? I think he is only 6"9' and not particularly lengthy but I've been under the impression that he'd compliment Kristaps exceedingly well. AG is basically a Swiss-Army knife at that spot and I could see him being something of a poor man's Draymond Green. The only real concern I'd have of him is his tendency to be a weak rebounder from his position. That aside, he would have been a guy I maxed this offseason if we had the money and were not so stacked at the 4/5 spots.

Gordon is basically a smaller, poor man's Porzingis in a sense. He is a do-it-all PF who will operate in a similar space as Porzingis. I think he's a good fit because he's versatile, as is Porzingis, but i don't think he improves the frontcourt significantly more than Kanter considering he will command the max.

I watched golden state last night and they inserted Jordan bell into starting line up. A bit undersized but he did everything if not more( both sides) than what any of our centers can do as well. Pick 36 making 800 k and doing the job just as well as any of our multi millionaires

newyorknewyork wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Can Aaron Gordon fit the bill? I think he is only 6"9' and not particularly lengthy but I've been under the impression that he'd compliment Kristaps exceedingly well. AG is basically a Swiss-Army knife at that spot and I could see him being something of a poor man's Draymond Green. The only real concern I'd have of him is his tendency to be a weak rebounder from his position. That aside, he would have been a guy I maxed this offseason if we had the money and were not so stacked at the 4/5 spots.

This has been Gordon's break out year. He is gonna command max money. Question is has he settled in at PF? No way Orlando lets him walk though.

Side note he looks just like Aaron Judge and would have a field day here with that. Said in the off season he was gonna come to NY to pretend to be Judge.

I'm still not entirely sure what the new front office's agenda is. They just drafted Jonathan Isaac and I wonder if they view him as a piece next to Gordon or one to supplant him. IMO, those two fit well together at the 4 and 5 but I obviously don't run the team. And if I were as futile as they are, would I want to continue adding salary before figuring out if this core is even worth keeping around? That's why I'd be willing to play chicken with them and max Gordon early to test their resolve because there is some possibility they waiver under that pressure.

As for Aaron Judge, holy shit, lol. I hope Gordon is aware of how much they look alike and dresses up as Judge for Halloween or vice-versa.

Knixkik wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Can Aaron Gordon fit the bill? I think he is only 6"9' and not particularly lengthy but I've been under the impression that he'd compliment Kristaps exceedingly well. AG is basically a Swiss-Army knife at that spot and I could see him being something of a poor man's Draymond Green. The only real concern I'd have of him is his tendency to be a weak rebounder from his position. That aside, he would have been a guy I maxed this offseason if we had the money and were not so stacked at the 4/5 spots.

Gordon is basically a smaller, poor man's Porzingis in a sense. He is a do-it-all PF who will operate in a similar space as Porzingis. I think he's a good fit because he's versatile, as is Porzingis, but i don't think he improves the frontcourt significantly more than Kanter considering he will command the max.

I'd imagine that Gordon's max would only mirror Kanter's current salary (plus higher annual raises), which is fine for me. I think AG is the better fit anyway and is young enough to justify the long-term commitment at that price. Not to mention, he is almost exactly what you want from a big in today's league. He can switch onto smaller players, initiates fast breaks, is a pretty good passer, can move without the ball well and is very much a lob threat and has also become a good perimeter shooter. Kanter is none of those things.

BRIGGS wrote:I watched golden state last night and they inserted Jordan bell into starting line up. A bit undersized but he did everything if not more( both sides) than what any of our centers can do as well. Pick 36 making 800 k and doing the job just as well as any of our multi millionaires

Second round picks don't matter, remember? Isn't that the justification people have used when we've traded ours away in foolish trades? And to think that Bell (or a Frank Mason) would've been in our range had we kept our 2017 second round pick in this past draft.

NardDogNation wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I watched golden state last night and they inserted Jordan bell into starting line up. A bit undersized but he did everything if not more( both sides) than what any of our centers can do as well. Pick 36 making 800 k and doing the job just as well as any of our multi millionaires

Second round picks don't matter, remember? Isn't that the justification people have used when we've traded ours away in foolish trades? And to think that Bell (or a Frank Mason) would've been in our range had we kept our 2017 second round pick in this past draft.

Golden State bought that pick?

NardDogNation wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:Can Aaron Gordon fit the bill? I think he is only 6"9' and not particularly lengthy but I've been under the impression that he'd compliment Kristaps exceedingly well. AG is basically a Swiss-Army knife at that spot and I could see him being something of a poor man's Draymond Green. The only real concern I'd have of him is his tendency to be a weak rebounder from his position. That aside, he would have been a guy I maxed this offseason if we had the money and were not so stacked at the 4/5 spots.

Gordon is basically a smaller, poor man's Porzingis in a sense. He is a do-it-all PF who will operate in a similar space as Porzingis. I think he's a good fit because he's versatile, as is Porzingis, but i don't think he improves the frontcourt significantly more than Kanter considering he will command the max.

I'd imagine that Gordon's max would only mirror Kanter's current salary (plus higher annual raises), which is fine for me. I think AG is the better fit anyway and is young enough to justify the long-term commitment at that price. Not to mention, he is almost exactly what you want from a big in today's league. He can switch onto smaller players, initiates fast breaks, is a pretty good passer, can move without the ball well and is very much a lob threat and has also become a good perimeter shooter. Kanter is none of those things.

There's no doubt Gordon is a much better player. I am just not confidence he is such a better fit to justify his contract. But then again, it's a moot point as i don't think we would ever be able to get him.

NardDogNation wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:I watched golden state last night and they inserted Jordan bell into starting line up. A bit undersized but he did everything if not more( both sides) than what any of our centers can do as well. Pick 36 making 800 k and doing the job just as well as any of our multi millionaires

Second round picks don't matter, remember? Isn't that the justification people have used when we've traded ours away in foolish trades? And to think that Bell (or a Frank Mason) would've been in our range had we kept our 2017 second round pick in this past draft.

2nd round picks matter, but we should be able to purchase them easily, as GS did to get Bell. That being said, this year we have the Bulls pick (which is basically a late 1st) and another 2nd round pick, so this year we should be able to build our backend roster depth if we use them right. In my opinion, this draft will be one of our most critical in recent franchise history. If we land a good player in the mid 1st round, and at least 1 future rotation player in the 2nd round, we will have a chance to take a huge step forward from within. If we misfire, it will be a problem.