martin wrote:Cartman718 wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Baker has played a total of about 58 meaningful minutes..Really with this ridiculous comparison
In truth there isn’t any serious effort at comparison because it’s irrelevant!!! They’re teammates and Baker is here to be a role player. Ntilikina is here to be the eventual starter.
I would love to see him continue to play well enough to become a solid asset.
I’m not worried about Baker at all. Teams can ALWAYS use Defensive Role Players! Baker has winning qualities. Not great at anything but has BBIQ, Max Effort, Playmaking Skills and Defense. That’s a pretty good combo.
At his salary, nobody should be worried about him. We had better options at role player though. Justin Holiday.
Pretty sure team thinks Baker a long term dude (hopefully), Holiday would not be.
The other thing is Baker have handle the ball and run plays. Holiday isn’t a Combo Guard. You can use Baker in more ways.
Nalod wrote:Knick fans are hard to accept patience because not since Eddie Donovan was the GM have we enacted rebuilding thru the draft.
Rebuilding is not easy.
Its not rebuilding its sucking for 15 years and then deciding to rebuild for 4 or 5 years. This should of been done after Pat.
nixluva wrote:martin wrote:Cartman718 wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Baker has played a total of about 58 meaningful minutes..Really with this ridiculous comparison
In truth there isn’t any serious effort at comparison because it’s irrelevant!!! They’re teammates and Baker is here to be a role player. Ntilikina is here to be the eventual starter.
I would love to see him continue to play well enough to become a solid asset.
I’m not worried about Baker at all. Teams can ALWAYS use Defensive Role Players! Baker has winning qualities. Not great at anything but has BBIQ, Max Effort, Playmaking Skills and Defense. That’s a pretty good combo.
At his salary, nobody should be worried about him. We had better options at role player though. Justin Holiday.
Pretty sure team thinks Baker a long term dude (hopefully), Holiday would not be.
The other thing is Baker have handle the ball and run plays. Holiday isn’t a Combo Guard. You can use Baker in more ways.
Baker played like a keeper today....
Jmpasq wrote:Nalod wrote:Knick fans are hard to accept patience because not since Eddie Donovan was the GM have we enacted rebuilding thru the draft.
Rebuilding is not easy.
Its not rebuilding its sucking for 15 years and then deciding to rebuild for 4 or 5 years. This should of been done after Pat.
It was. The Earnie and Nellie Era. When Dolan Sided with Ewing and fired Nellie it stagnated the rebuild. we lucked into Spree and 1999 strike short run but even that era got botched.
blkexec wrote:nixluva wrote:martin wrote:Cartman718 wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Baker has played a total of about 58 meaningful minutes..Really with this ridiculous comparison
In truth there isn’t any serious effort at comparison because it’s irrelevant!!! They’re teammates and Baker is here to be a role player. Ntilikina is here to be the eventual starter.
I would love to see him continue to play well enough to become a solid asset.
I’m not worried about Baker at all. Teams can ALWAYS use Defensive Role Players! Baker has winning qualities. Not great at anything but has BBIQ, Max Effort, Playmaking Skills and Defense. That’s a pretty good combo.
At his salary, nobody should be worried about him. We had better options at role player though. Justin Holiday.
Pretty sure team thinks Baker a long term dude (hopefully), Holiday would not be.
The other thing is Baker have handle the ball and run plays. Holiday isn’t a Combo Guard. You can use Baker in more ways.
Baker played like a keeper today....
He really has taken to the coaching and is developing nicely. I've been preaching patience with these kids and Baker in particular. He kind of had some injuries stunt his development to start the year but he's getting back on track. He's showing a lot of the reasons the Knicks had faith in him.
Last night:
Baker
11 pts, 80% fg, 3 3pts, 2 assists, 2 steals in 17 mins
Baker's been playing very well lately. His fg% and 3pt% are both above 50% for December, and when you combine that with his defense, he's been a great asset.
How about Baker vs. Jack! We'll need a bigger sample of minutes from Baker but it wouldn't surprise me if he surpasses Jack.
I wanna give Baker credit. Here I've been thinking this dude isn't even an NBA player for the most part and that's wrong. Dude's a nice glue guy for our backcourt. Great job!
Panos - we need threads on Baker AND Frank, not versus. They are looking good together, once Dotson checks in our perimeter woes may become history.
meloshouldgo wrote:Panos - we need threads on Baker AND Frank, not versus. They are looking good together, once Dotson checks in our perimeter woes may become history.
Whats wrong with asking who's the more impactful player right now?
Panos wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:Panos - we need threads on Baker AND Frank, not versus. They are looking good together, once Dotson checks in our perimeter woes may become history.
Whats wrong with asking who's the more impactful player right now?
Nothing, if the discussion stays at that level, but things tend to get divisive. And the two are playing so well together. That and it's a bit apples to oranges because of what expected of them
Baker's five years older than Frank. I think he's the better player right now, but Frank has more upside.
meloshouldgo wrote:Panos - we need threads on Baker AND Frank, not versus. They are looking good together, once Dotson checks in our perimeter woes may become history.
I thought Baker and Frank played great together.
I also don't see anybody on the team that has the veteran offensive skills like Jack. He understands how to calm the team down, when to drive and when to shoot open shots. He understands when the team is not playing well on offense or when the other team is playing hard ball denial defense, he doesn't force passes down low like Frank or Baker would.
Right now I see a place for Jack, Frank and Baker to all coexist. But soon Frank will develop those offensive skills, if not already. Baker is more of a combo shooting guard. Frank is a combo point guard. If Baker is in trouble, he's thinking shoot or get to the rim. When Frank is in trouble, he's looking for KP or Kanter or a post player first.....So I can't see Baker being a full time PG starter for the knicks. Frank is the clear runner up to drive the offense, once Jack runs out of his young mans juice.
blkexec wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:Panos - we need threads on Baker AND Frank, not versus. They are looking good together, once Dotson checks in our perimeter woes may become history.
I thought Baker and Frank played great together.
I also don't see anybody on the team that has the veteran offensive skills like Jack. He understands how to calm the team down, when to drive and when to shoot open shots. He understands when the team is not playing well on offense or when the other team is playing hard ball denial defense, he doesn't force passes down low like Frank or Baker would.
Right now I see a place for Jack, Frank and Baker to all coexist. But soon Frank will develop those offensive skills, if not already. Baker is more of a combo shooting guard. Frank is a combo point guard. If Baker is in trouble, he's thinking shoot or get to the rim. When Frank is in trouble, he's looking for KP or Kanter or a post player first.....So I can't see Baker being a full time PG starter for the knicks. Frank is the clear runner up to drive the offense, once Jack runs out of his young mans juice.
So did I, and it looks from afar like they have a healthy competition for minutes as well. They're both trying to show that they can generate some offense, which has been the biggest knock on both of them.
I agree about Jack as well, in spite of his diminished athleticism, Jack is making the most of what he has left. Believe it demonstrates how much better we could be if we upgraded the position. Got a legit two way starter.
Nalod wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Nalod wrote:Knick fans are hard to accept patience because not since Eddie Donovan was the GM have we enacted rebuilding thru the draft.
Rebuilding is not easy.
Its not rebuilding its sucking for 15 years and then deciding to rebuild for 4 or 5 years. This should of been done after Pat.
It was. The Earnie and Nellie Era. When Dolan Sided with Ewing and fired Nellie it stagnated the rebuild. we lucked into Spree and 1999 strike short run but even that era got botched.
Yeah, didn't want to stagnate rebuilding around Point Forward Anthony Mason... Nellie did not belong coaching here... Nellieball's a flake approach, when you're looking at Ewing like he's Randy Breuer or Alton Lister... Great as a GM though...
The Spree era was classic lightning in the bottle, with little to no support.
Panos wrote:Who is better right now? Frank or Baker?
Defensively?
Shooting?
Driving?
Passing/playmaking?
Intangibles?
I find it interesting that no one is willing to answer the question/analysts. I'm not asking to be a wise a$$, but because though I've seen some games, i haven't watched many if them. So from my vantage point, here's what I've seen:
Defensively? Frank def good on the steals. Ron brings good energy, trapping and team D. I think Frank wins, but not by a huge margin.
Shooting? Ron
Driving? Ron
Passing/playmaking? Neither is great. I see Frank often just dumping the ball off to the big at the top of the key because he doesn't know what to do with the ball.
Intangibles? Ron brings energy, Frank brings length. Maybe a push.
Anyone else willing to contribute instead of calling the question a joke?
Panos wrote:Panos wrote:Who is better right now? Frank or Baker?
Defensively?
Shooting?
Driving?
Passing/playmaking?
Intangibles?
I find it interesting that no one is willing to answer the question/analysts. I'm not asking to be a wise a$$, but because though I've seen some games, i haven't watched many if them. So from my vantage point, here's what I've seen:
Defensively? Frank def good on the steals. Ron brings good energy, trapping and team D. I think Frank wins, but not by a huge margin.
Shooting? Ron
Driving? Ron
Passing/playmaking? Neither is great. I see Frank often just dumping the ball off to the big at the top of the key because he doesn't know what to do with the ball.
Intangibles? Ron brings energy, Frank brings length. Maybe a push.
Anyone else willing to contribute instead of calling the question a joke?
It's hard for me to answer because I see Frank as a PG and Baker as a SG. Frank is learning to be a SG. Baker is learning to be a PG. Both are similar, but keep in mind....Frank is 19.
Both are streaky shooters and both are currently backups. But when you look at age, you gotta give the edge to the 19yr old, especially if he's playing on the same level as Baker (or close enough to start a comparison thread). Baker is passed the rookie emotional wall and just started to show the fruits of his labor.
The 19 yr old gets the edge for me for the simple fact that we are comparing a rookie 19 yr old to a vet NBA roll player.
I wasn't trying to be a smartass,I think it's hard to compare them because of not enough data and Ron is being evaluated as a backup and Frank as a starting PG. I think overall Frank is the better pure PG in that he looks to set up the offense and eventually he will make people around him better. Ron is a intangibles/glue guy who does a little bit of everything but not great at anything save for effort. He is a decent basketball player and will be a very ueful guard off the bench.
Defensively they are both good but Frank has better overall stats and will continue to have those. Ron can actually turn a game around with defense, more than Frank can so that's clearly valuable too.
(Sorry for so many typos)
jrodmc wrote:Nalod wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Nalod wrote:Knick fans are hard to accept patience because not since Eddie Donovan was the GM have we enacted rebuilding thru the draft.
Rebuilding is not easy.
Its not rebuilding its sucking for 15 years and then deciding to rebuild for 4 or 5 years. This should of been done after Pat.
It was. The Earnie and Nellie Era. When Dolan Sided with Ewing and fired Nellie it stagnated the rebuild. we lucked into Spree and 1999 strike short run but even that era got botched.
Yeah, didn't want to stagnate rebuilding around Point Forward Anthony Mason... Nellie did not belong coaching here... Nellieball's a flake approach, when you're looking at Ewing like he's Randy Breuer or Alton Lister... Great as a GM though...The Spree era was classic lightning in the bottle, with little to no support.
refresher on the Nellie Era.....
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/02/sports...
Good to see Ronnie healthy and playing well again. We tend to evaluate whats in front of us.
Some said he was not NBA talent. Some said Frank will be nothing but a back up player at best.
Neither knows for sure.
Ron obviously had a rough camp and a rough start. Knicks have enough depth that someone has to fail or get hurt before you supplant them.
Its why Noah is not getting off the bench despite his contract. Its Why Willy has to earn his way back on the court. He is outplayed by KOQ.
