Knicks · Why hasn't Burke been playing?!? (page 1)

Horny has to take the hit here.

When Burke was initially signed, he played and had great games. He produced every time he got the opportunity. Then all of a sudden Horny just stopped playing him and he fell out of the rotation--for absolutely no reason. He just resorted to playing Jack heavy minutes with Frank backing up, and then Mudiay when he was traded for.

I get now we are finally playing the youth and rebuilding the rest of the year, but had Burke been given the starting job at pg over Jack a long time ago, do we win a lot more games and still be in the playoff hunt (not saying this would be a good thing; getting a high lottery pick is more important). But I really think with Burke's ability to create his own shot and his offensive versatility, we would have won a lot more of those close games. And this is when Horny was trying to win and he was going with Jack. What does this say about him?

Burke could have been doing this for a long time if he was given the opportunity. It appears like he has figured something out after his stint in the G league. His mid range is deadly, he can shoot the 3 now and he can penetrate and get in the paint.

Which leads back to my question:

Why hasn't Burke been playing?!?

5'11

ekstarks94 wrote:5'11

DraftExpress - Trey Burke DraftExpress Profile: Stats, Comparisons ...
www.draftexpress.com/profile/Trey-Burke-36200/
Jun 27, 2013 - -Trey Burke is widely considered the top point guard available in the 2013 draft and nothing we found in studying his situational stats would lead us to believe otherwise. He does not stand out in a major way on paper, but ranks well across the board and excels in a few key areas that should aid him in his ...
Height‎: ‎6'1'' (185 cm) Weight‎: ‎187 lbs (85 kg)
College‎: ‎Michigan

blkexec wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:5'11

DraftExpress - Trey Burke DraftExpress Profile: Stats, Comparisons ...
www.draftexpress.com/profile/Trey-Burke-36200/
Jun 27, 2013 - -Trey Burke is widely considered the top point guard available in the 2013 draft and nothing we found in studying his situational stats would lead us to believe otherwise. He does not stand out in a major way on paper, but ranks well across the board and excels in a few key areas that should aid him in his ...
Height‎: ‎6'1'' (185 cm) Weight‎: ‎187 lbs (85 kg)
College‎: ‎Michigan

Doubt it...

Horny was a stubborn jerk. Not saying Burke is a starting PG but has definitely shown he is at least a legit backup PG in this league ( no matter what triple threat thinks) . Crazy that Burke had shown flashes and then Horny just benches him. Needs to get consistent minutes the rest of the year. Jack shouldn't see the floor the rest of the year. I've been saying this for a while so not just jumping on the bandwagon after this game. I think his defense is better than advertised, should improve somewhat with playing time.

blkexec wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:5'11

DraftExpress - Trey Burke DraftExpress Profile: Stats, Comparisons ...
www.draftexpress.com/profile/Trey-Burke-36200/
Jun 27, 2013 - -Trey Burke is widely considered the top point guard available in the 2013 draft and nothing we found in studying his situational stats would lead us to believe otherwise. He does not stand out in a major way on paper, but ranks well across the board and excels in a few key areas that should aid him in his ...
Height‎: ‎6'1'' (185 cm) Weight‎: ‎187 lbs (85 kg)
College‎: ‎Michigan

with shoes, without shoes... NBA combine numbers: https://stats.nba.com/draft/combine-anth...

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:5'11

DraftExpress - Trey Burke DraftExpress Profile: Stats, Comparisons ...
www.draftexpress.com/profile/Trey-Burke-36200/
Jun 27, 2013 - -Trey Burke is widely considered the top point guard available in the 2013 draft and nothing we found in studying his situational stats would lead us to believe otherwise. He does not stand out in a major way on paper, but ranks well across the board and excels in a few key areas that should aid him in his ...
Height‎: ‎6'1'' (185 cm) Weight‎: ‎187 lbs (85 kg)
College‎: ‎Michigan

with shoes, without shoes... NBA combine numbers: https://stats.nba.com/draft/combine-anth...

I'm almost the exact dimensions

ekstarks94 wrote:5'11

So was isiah Thomas the hof player,hight should have no barring on wheather a pg plays or not. Burke is clearly our best pg. he should get a lot more minutes, especially with Frank I really liked the defensive energy they brought together.

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Burke has a good game and suddenly “Geez, why has he be held back?”
some of those games he has not been very good.
Why not look at the game tonite as “hey, this is a good thing”!
Is it sustainable?
Instead we assume all this time Burke been held down?

SocraticBallin22 wrote:But I really think with Burke's ability to create his own shot and his offensive versatility, we would have won a lot more of those close games. And this is when Horny was trying to win and he was going with Jack. What does this say about him?
Why hasn't Burke been playing?!?

There is a difference between

A) Creating your own shot

B) Creating your own shot CONSISTENTLY

C) Creating your own shot CONSISTENTLY with the defense focusing on stopping you above all else

D) Looking for your own shot

Most NBA players can create their own shot sometimes. Depends on the situation, matchup, whether they are in a zone or not, their current usage patterns, the specific layout of the court itself, home versus road, etc, etc.

The best players can do it consistently, night after night.

The elite players can do it night after night with the defenses selling out to lock them down

If Burke could consistently create his own shot at the NBA level, he wouldn't have been in the G League. Hes a player who is looking for his next contract and simply looks for his own shot first, last and only. His job is the actually run the offense. As much as Jarrett Jack gets hammered on this forum, he actually attempts to run the offense. He's just not very good at it. Most of Jack's career, he didn't bother trying to run the offense, he went hero ball. But he's broke and wants to keep an NBA job.

To be fair to Burke, his shooting does look better. Though he's still lousy on defense.

His job is to run the offense. He's not looking to run the offense. He's looking to compile some volume stats to get paid again after this season. Which, on his part, is a boneheaded move. But if he wasn't such a bonehead, he wouldn't have been bounced to the G League in the first place. Yes, give him minutes, he'll put up a few stats, but at the cost of running the actual offense.

He's not very good to start. He's small and slow. He doesn't play within his actual limitations. He is not doing the baseline requirement of his position. I rarely say this, but he's a waste of a roster spot.

TripleThreat wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:But I really think with Burke's ability to create his own shot and his offensive versatility, we would have won a lot more of those close games. And this is when Horny was trying to win and he was going with Jack. What does this say about him?
Why hasn't Burke been playing?!?

There is a difference between

A) Creating your own shot

B) Creating your own shot CONSISTENTLY

C) Creating your own shot CONSISTENTLY with the defense focusing on stopping you above all else

D) Looking for your own shot

Most NBA players can create their own shot sometimes. Depends on the situation, matchup, whether they are in a zone or not, their current usage patterns, the specific layout of the court itself, home versus road, etc, etc.

The best players can do it consistently, night after night.

The elite players can do it night after night with the defenses selling out to lock them down

If Burke could consistently create his own shot at the NBA level, he wouldn't have been in the G League. Hes a player who is looking for his next contract and simply looks for his own shot first, last and only. His job is the actually run the offense. As much as Jarrett Jack gets hammered on this forum, he actually attempts to run the offense. He's just not very good at it. Most of Jack's career, he didn't bother trying to run the offense, he went hero ball. But he's broke and wants to keep an NBA job.

To be fair to Burke, his shooting does look better. Though he's still lousy on defense.

His job is to run the offense. He's not looking to run the offense. He's looking to compile some volume stats to get paid again after this season. Which, on his part, is a boneheaded move. But if he wasn't such a bonehead, he wouldn't have been bounced to the G League in the first place. Yes, give him minutes, he'll put up a few stats, but at the cost of running the actual offense.

He's not very good to start. He's small and slow. He doesn't play within his actual limitations. He is not doing the baseline requirement of his position. I rarely say this, but he's a waste of a roster spot.

I’d have to disagree, Burke was the best distributor on the floor tonight hence his 6 assists and passing is one of his better skills. Burkes offensive game and pg ability have never been in question, its always been his terrible defense, tonight vs orlando he played great defense that’s undeniable.

Burke is NBA caliber talent who just took time to develop defensively. There is a reason he was taken 9 th overall it was because he can light up the scoreboard . The world is trays oyster now especially playing on the Knicks, if he can consistantly play like he did tonight on BOTH ends. we are looking at a piece of our future.

As far as jack is considered talk about a guy who is barley nba talent the guy is a awful defender who cant attack the rim at all.... he has the IQ to make the smart pass to set up plays on occasion and only looks for his shot as a last resort. You know who else had great basketball IQ and only looked for his shot as a last resort Jose no defense Caldron. He’s a 3rd string nba level player at this point in his career and that’s even giving him the benefit of the doubt, most teams would have released Jack.

Jack was part of the operation Tank, the knicks management isn’t stupid they know they need at least two good lottery drafts as well as good free agent signings to make this team a contender with the likes of GSW,Houston,wolves,Cavs,celts no way do we stand a chance vs those teams without building from within.

Keepers for now:
KP
Frank
Burke
Mudiay
THJR
O’Quinn
Dotson

Borderline
Kanter
Beasley

The rest can go as far as I’m concerned. Let the kids play esp frank, Burke and Mudiay

And Pray for Doncic

Burke's issue is that he calls his own number probably a little too much for a starting pg and his defense is not always consistent. In a game like tonight, he looks amazing, but when we play a stronger team with better players, Burke will be exposed unless he brings this same level of defensive intensity. Burke has not been great in all his games and the reason he flamed out in Utah is he was shot happy and inconsistent on defense. He is much better than he was at Utah, but he still needs to improve if he hopes to be a starting pg.

That being said, I do agree that Jack should have been sat about 15 games ago. I think part of Horny's thinking is he did not want to give Burke a big head and wanted him to earn the starting spot through hardwork and showing consistency on defense. Perhaps in the long run, it will prove to be the better approach.

Burke hopefully will prove to be a keeper as an instant offense and good passing PG off the bench. Would be great of he had a future with us after this year because he finally proved he belonged in the NBA.

fitzfarm wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:But I really think with Burke's ability to create his own shot and his offensive versatility, we would have won a lot more of those close games. And this is when Horny was trying to win and he was going with Jack. What does this say about him?
Why hasn't Burke been playing?!?

There is a difference between

A) Creating your own shot

B) Creating your own shot CONSISTENTLY

C) Creating your own shot CONSISTENTLY with the defense focusing on stopping you above all else

D) Looking for your own shot

Most NBA players can create their own shot sometimes. Depends on the situation, matchup, whether they are in a zone or not, their current usage patterns, the specific layout of the court itself, home versus road, etc, etc.

The best players can do it consistently, night after night.

The elite players can do it night after night with the defenses selling out to lock them down

If Burke could consistently create his own shot at the NBA level, he wouldn't have been in the G League. Hes a player who is looking for his next contract and simply looks for his own shot first, last and only. His job is the actually run the offense. As much as Jarrett Jack gets hammered on this forum, he actually attempts to run the offense. He's just not very good at it. Most of Jack's career, he didn't bother trying to run the offense, he went hero ball. But he's broke and wants to keep an NBA job.

To be fair to Burke, his shooting does look better. Though he's still lousy on defense.

His job is to run the offense. He's not looking to run the offense. He's looking to compile some volume stats to get paid again after this season. Which, on his part, is a boneheaded move. But if he wasn't such a bonehead, he wouldn't have been bounced to the G League in the first place. Yes, give him minutes, he'll put up a few stats, but at the cost of running the actual offense.

He's not very good to start. He's small and slow. He doesn't play within his actual limitations. He is not doing the baseline requirement of his position. I rarely say this, but he's a waste of a roster spot.

I’d have to disagree, Burke was the best distributor on the floor tonight hence his 6 assists and passing is one of his better skills. Burkes offensive game and pg ability have never been in question, its always been his terrible defense, tonight vs orlando he played great defense that’s undeniable.

Burke is NBA caliber talent who just took time to develop defensively. There is a reason he was taken 9 th overall it was because he can light up the scoreboard . The world is trays oyster now especially playing on the Knicks, if he can consistantly play like he did tonight on BOTH ends. we are looking at a piece of our future.

As far as jack is considered talk about a guy who is barley nba talent the guy is a awful defender who cant attack the rim at all.... he has the IQ to make the smart pass to set up plays on occasion and only looks for his shot as a last resort. You know who else had great basketball IQ and only looked for his shot as a last resort Jose no defense Caldron. He’s a 3rd string nba level player at this point in his career and that’s even giving him the benefit of the doubt, most teams would have released Jack.

Jack was part of the operation Tank, the knicks management isn’t stupid they know they need at least two good lottery drafts as well as good free agent signings to make this team a contender with the likes of GSW,Houston,wolves,Cavs,celts no way do we stand a chance vs those teams without building from within.

Keepers for now:
KP
Frank
Burke
Mudiay
THJR
O’Quinn
Dotson

Borderline
Kanter
Beasley

The rest can go as far as I’m concerned. Let the kids play esp frank, Burke and Mudiay

And Pray for Doncic

Uggghh if thats are future KP will be gone and we will be in the lottery for the next 5 years

Burke is the exact type of guard JH had in Phoenix with Bledsoe. Long-term he's a solid change of pace PG off the bench.

SocraticBallin22 wrote:Horny has to take the hit here.

When Burke was initially signed, he played and had great games. He produced every time he got the opportunity. Then all of a sudden Horny just stopped playing him and he fell out of the rotation--for absolutely no reason. He just resorted to playing Jack heavy minutes with Frank backing up, and then Mudiay when he was traded for.

I get now we are finally playing the youth and rebuilding the rest of the year, but had Burke been given the starting job at pg over Jack a long time ago, do we win a lot more games and still be in the playoff hunt (not saying this would be a good thing; getting a high lottery pick is more important). But I really think with Burke's ability to create his own shot and his offensive versatility, we would have won a lot more of those close games. And this is when Horny was trying to win and he was going with Jack. What does this say about him?

Burke could have been doing this for a long time if he was given the opportunity. It appears like he has figured something out after his stint in the G league. His mid range is deadly, he can shoot the 3 now and he can penetrate and get in the paint.

Which leads back to my question:

Why hasn't Burke been playing?!?

The same reason why NOAH wasn't playing, WE HAVE BEEN SECRETLY TANKING. I realize a month ago, the more we played frank, the more we were not trying to win.

Don’t you guys know that the latest is the greatest. When they got Mudiay he was the best that’s how the Knicks work. No rhyme or reason. They don’t know what they are doing.

TripleThreat wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:But I really think with Burke's ability to create his own shot and his offensive versatility, we would have won a lot more of those close games. And this is when Horny was trying to win and he was going with Jack. What does this say about him?
Why hasn't Burke been playing?!?

There is a difference between

A) Creating your own shot

B) Creating your own shot CONSISTENTLY

C) Creating your own shot CONSISTENTLY with the defense focusing on stopping you above all else

D) Looking for your own shot

Most NBA players can create their own shot sometimes. Depends on the situation, matchup, whether they are in a zone or not, their current usage patterns, the specific layout of the court itself, home versus road, etc, etc.

The best players can do it consistently, night after night.

The elite players can do it night after night with the defenses selling out to lock them down

If Burke could consistently create his own shot at the NBA level, he wouldn't have been in the G League. Hes a player who is looking for his next contract and simply looks for his own shot first, last and only. His job is the actually run the offense. As much as Jarrett Jack gets hammered on this forum, he actually attempts to run the offense. He's just not very good at it. Most of Jack's career, he didn't bother trying to run the offense, he went hero ball. But he's broke and wants to keep an NBA job.

To be fair to Burke, his shooting does look better. Though he's still lousy on defense.

His job is to run the offense. He's not looking to run the offense. He's looking to compile some volume stats to get paid again after this season. Which, on his part, is a boneheaded move. But if he wasn't such a bonehead, he wouldn't have been bounced to the G League in the first place. Yes, give him minutes, he'll put up a few stats, but at the cost of running the actual offense.

He's not very good to start. He's small and slow. He doesn't play within his actual limitations. He is not doing the baseline requirement of his position. I rarely say this, but he's a waste of a roster spot.

I don't know if your looking for the Charlie ward type, but here's a news flash..We are in a scoring pg/combo ERA.

Kemba, Lowry, Jru, curry, westbrook, PG13, lillard, bledsoe, Irving, mitchel,DSJ, russel, I T.

Burke was scoring in college, he's not a pass first pg. He didn't even have to go to the g league, he had a few offers on the table prior to making that decision and had the knicks not lock him up last month, he would have been snatched up by another team.

fitzfarm wrote:

ekstarks94 wrote:5'11

So was isiah Thomas the hof player,hight should have no barring on wheather a pg plays or not. Burke is clearly our best pg. he should get a lot more minutes, especially with Frank I really liked the defensive energy they brought together.

Off the bench he is great change of pace....but playing major minutes...that is another question....for this season, which is lost it really doesn't matter...but if we were playing for something....he would be getting abused on defense....

so the question is...like with the IT guy......does his offensive contributions outweigh his defensive inefficiencies???

We do not have the type of defensive scheme to mask his weaknesses like Boston had for the IT guy. So unless he is scoring close to 20 a night he is not worth...

We are talking about a player that is not even on the scouting report full time...when he can produce with the focus on him in a season that matters with him playing major minutes...then this debate may be a little relevant....but I really do not think he moves the needle before KP or after.....we have a dearth of talent.....add him to the mix he is a piece that they are trying to revive on a low cost contract.

TripleThreat wrote:

SocraticBallin22 wrote:But I really think with Burke's ability to create his own shot and his offensive versatility, we would have won a lot more of those close games. And this is when Horny was trying to win and he was going with Jack. What does this say about him?
Why hasn't Burke been playing?!?

There is a difference between

A) Creating your own shot

B) Creating your own shot CONSISTENTLY

C) Creating your own shot CONSISTENTLY with the defense focusing on stopping you above all else

D) Looking for your own shot

Most NBA players can create their own shot sometimes. Depends on the situation, matchup, whether they are in a zone or not, their current usage patterns, the specific layout of the court itself, home versus road, etc, etc.

The best players can do it consistently, night after night.

The elite players can do it night after night with the defenses selling out to lock them down

If Burke could consistently create his own shot at the NBA level, he wouldn't have been in the G League. Hes a player who is looking for his next contract and simply looks for his own shot first, last and only. His job is the actually run the offense. As much as Jarrett Jack gets hammered on this forum, he actually attempts to run the offense. He's just not very good at it. Most of Jack's career, he didn't bother trying to run the offense, he went hero ball. But he's broke and wants to keep an NBA job.

To be fair to Burke, his shooting does look better. Though he's still lousy on defense.

His job is to run the offense. He's not looking to run the offense. He's looking to compile some volume stats to get paid again after this season. Which, on his part, is a boneheaded move. But if he wasn't such a bonehead, he wouldn't have been bounced to the G League in the first place. Yes, give him minutes, he'll put up a few stats, but at the cost of running the actual offense.

He's not very good to start. He's small and slow. He doesn't play within his actual limitations. He is not doing the baseline requirement of his position. I rarely say this, but he's a waste of a roster spot.

He is instant offense off the bench. He can carve himself out a career in that role.