Knicks · My Ques. When? do we see Knicks becoming very good Or playoff team among elite NBA stars (page 2)

DJMUSIC wrote:Why doesn't knick management take blueprint from successful NBA francises?
Get that sure Jerry West type basketball guru, then let him
Get others in mix to scout/ draft as well as hire coaches who can aid in the
Recruitment of college stars in to be attracted to NY as place to play and win.
Of course with right piece/needs in place.

They tried to bring in name basketball guys. The closest to West was Walsh. Bringing in Perry, targeting players 25 and under, valuing solid vets on the team for continuity, not trading picks, and acquiring picks are the first steps to being a stable franchise. Also, not chasing the quick fix is a nice change. It may take awhile but the Knicks look to have four lottery picks (if 2019 pick is a lottery pick) in 5 years playing together by 2019. Add Burke, Mudiay, Tim and Kanter to that group and the team has the potential for roster continuity and team success for a long time. They also will have flexible assets and eventually cap space to work with.
I can only speak for myself, but I am enjoying the post all star, young knick games a lot more than the Jack, Lee, Thomas... chase the 8th seed squad that was playing before the all star game. The Knicks are must see tv for me again.

CrushAlot wrote:

DJMUSIC wrote:Why doesn't knick management take blueprint from successful NBA francises?
Get that sure Jerry West type basketball guru, then let him
Get others in mix to scout/ draft as well as hire coaches who can aid in the
Recruitment of college stars in to be attracted to NY as place to play and win.
Of course with right piece/needs in place.

They tried to bring in name basketball guys. The closest to West was Walsh. Bringing in Perry, targeting players 25 and under, valuing solid vets on the team for continuity, not trading picks, and acquiring picks are the first steps to being a stable franchise. Also, not chasing the quick fix is a nice change. It may take awhile but the Knicks look to have four lottery picks (if 2019 pick is a lottery pick) in 5 years playing together by 2019. Add Burke, Mudiay, Tim and Kanter to that group and the team has the potential for roster continuity and team success for a long time. They also will have flexible assets and eventually cap space to work with.
I can only speak for myself, but I am enjoying the post all star, young knick games a lot more than the Jack, Lee, Thomas... chase the 8th seed squad that was playing before the all star game. The Knicks are must see tv for me again.

About time, right? The first half of the GS was absolute gold in that regard

DJMUSIC wrote:Why doesn't knick management take blueprint from successful NBA francises?
Get that sure Jerry West type basketball guru, then let him
Get others in mix to scout/ draft as well as hire coaches who can aid in the
Recruitment of college stars in to be attracted to NY as place to play and win.
Of course with right piece/needs in place.

Have to have assets to make good decisions about what to do with them.
An owner willing to let basketball people do their jobs.
A plan and stick to it.
Patience when there are set backs, and there are always set backs.

for now Clippers did a sort knick thing: did some winning but never out of conf. finals and the team aged out.
Now West is advising Clippers. They basically let Paul walk and traded at star in his prime after giving him a big contract.
THat took balls. So they are rebuilding prematurely. Thats an owner who understands that you have to refresh assets when there is value.

Nets did one thing really bad among some bad deals.: They traded for Deron Williams which itself was not that bad at the time. He was a "star" and nobody could see his physical and mental decline at the time of the deal. The deal for KG and pierce to be with in prime Joe Johnson and deron, yeah they over paid but if you go back that very moment in time, not the hindsight kind of thing we like to do as fans, but that particular moment you might even say "Nets all in and if they can steal a chip in Brooklyn they will own the city because two generations of fans don't know Knicks used to be a great team!!!".

The blunder was Trading the 8th pick which was Damian Lillard for Gerald Wallace. Gerald was a glue guy, a very good player and teammate, but the upside to Lillard was incredible. Even if you drafted him (no guarantee Nets do and Im sort of cherry picking here!" and then trade him you get incredible value. I get they did not need him as they had Williams but "Damn"........I suppose Pistons had Darko and passed on Melo. Melo could have sat for the chip year and Larry would have driven him crazy, or he might have been the future of the franchise?

My point is "be cool with the deals you make". Teams that succeeded did so because they were patient. That is why GSW is what they are: It took time for them to gel!!!

DJMUSIC wrote:I pondered this since we lost out on Steph Curry pick (desired by Donnie Walsh) but of course
only to have Curry picked 1 spot ahead #7 in NBA by Warriors.

Impact guys of course beside Curry (GS) was Harden (OKC), Derozan(Tor), Teague (Atl) & of course Blake Griffith (LAL)

However sad point is during our many years of Knicks fans the ballclub was really never elite OR good
(e.g playoffs)

Knicks were good 1 season with Mike Woodson , *That's it! exit playoffs.
Our Org. Knick team wasn't even good when Shaq Left Miami for LA, and Kobe, Duncan, a young LBJ began running things in 2004.
Now is what 2018?

During this era of Lebron James, Steph Curry, Chris Paul, James Harden, Westbrook, K.Leonard, J.Butler and on and on
of many oter NBA stars & Superstars in today's and recent years NBA. It P_sses me off like hell that we're that bad
for that long, & watching Lebron getting older cause my heart is all Knickerbockers.

Doesn't it bother you? the very very least that During the tims of these superstars fame mention and some stars prior
to Steph, LBJ, Harden ect. that Our NY Knickerbockers has never been good (yet) while these present NBA stars
carve their niche in NBA History book year in year out.

As avid long time Knick fan I am like many here, it bothers the HELL out of me on how long we've been
VERY bad very unlucky with lessened hope in sight. I ain't saying Lebron Or Steph, Harden , Russell Westbrook
new stars such as Greek-Freek, D.Lillard, Kyrie, P.George, Derozan none of them retiring any time soon.

HOWEVER , how much is a NY Local Knick fan to take? when do we ever turn the corner ? WITHOUT hittting "Reset" button year in yr. out
All the bad that's happened to our Knickerbocker organization as far as being irrelevant in contention in NBA East conference
basketball. Really hurts every season with no hope.

Where is confidence in organization? that Knickerbockers will hit reset & have a Coach in place for June 2018 draft ( 3 picks)
Its way over due that J.Hornachek and Kurtis 'blow' Rambis need to be out of Knicks plans. But I'll believe that when I see it!

I ponder how much Or when? does all this Knick fortune Or lack of planning to be the ELITE in NBA or among the best
this topic is hard pill to swallow.

Lebron and company NBA stars has & will never ever seen the Knickerbockers really really GOOD! anytime soon.

My guess is never, we had our shot when Donovan Mitchell was on the board, coupled with the Porzingis injury this phase of Knicks basketball is already dead. Basically everything is tied to ping pong balls for the next 2 years. Hopefully we get lucky for once but most likely we will get screwed because thats the Knicks

DJMUSIC wrote:when do we ever turn the corner ?

If the Knicks had never hired Phil Jackson and actually hired an experienced front office mind, with the provision that Melo must be traded immediately? 5 years

When the Knicks let go of both Jackson and Melo (soft retirement/firing and trade) then 7 years from that point.

Talent accumulation in the NBA is VERY VERY SLOW. Also, this is a concept Briggs just can't seem to get, is that you must factor in a margin of error along the way. You won't hit on every single pick.

Places where the Knicks took massive hits

A) Clearing space by gutting their team to try to court LBJ during his first free agency.
B) Whiffing on LBJ and spending their cap on Amare Stoudamire, just to justify everything they did before
C) Trading for Melo from the Nuggets instead of chasing him as a free agent.
D) Not trading Melo right during Linsanity.
E) Signing Noah/trading for Rose

Major events that set this team back horribly

TripleThreat wrote:

DJMUSIC wrote:when do we ever turn the corner ?

If the Knicks had never hired Phil Jackson and actually hired an experienced front office mind, with the provision that Melo must be traded immediately? 5 years

When the Knicks let go of both Jackson and Melo (soft retirement/firing and trade) then 7 years from that point.

Talent accumulation in the NBA is VERY VERY SLOW. Also, this is a concept Briggs just can't seem to get, is that you must factor in a margin of error along the way. You won't hit on every single pick.

Places where the Knicks took massive hits

A) Clearing space by gutting their team to try to court LBJ during his first free agency.
B) Whiffing on LBJ and spending their cap on Amare Stoudamire, just to justify everything they did before
C) Trading for Melo from the Nuggets instead of chasing him as a free agent.
D) Not trading Melo right during Linsanity.
E) Signing Noah/trading for Rose

Major events that set this team back horribly

The Noah signing min set us back 3 seasons

i would split the answer in two sections what will our conference look like in a few years and what will our team look like in a few years.
the conference is still weak but built for future contending team. boston will be the main competition as they are good now and built for the future. they have irving for at least another year and hayward, as gruesome as the injury looked, it wont affect his play and he should be back to where he was. not to mention brown and tatum. they also have picks galore that they can flip for a good player to compliment their already great team or draft another good player. their scouting has been good for the most part. they will be the top dog for at least 5 years.

the other team that will be fighting with them are the sixers which could be a bigger problem than the celtics. embiid is a player who is climbing to the top 10 pretty quickly if he isnt there yet. he is more than a handful for any team and a great two way player. only weakness is his health and pain tolerance obviously but still an unbelievable talent. they then have simmons who is the ultimate complimentary player for embiid. he will get better which is scary. they have assets to get better. the process looks great as they are set up to be a championship caliber team soon and for years.

the rest of the conference could be tough but not as scary. toronto is good during the season but not the playoffs as lowry is getting older and not that same player. the bucks have the greek freak and as long as they have him they have a decent team. they must build appropriately around him or they may lose him. washington is a solid team with arguably the best backcourt in the league. however, the chemistry has been inconsistent as they have beef within the team that holds them back from being a great team. detroit is just a playoff doormat even with griffith.

the second part is what will the knicks look like in a few year? well, they will be among the worst teams in the conference next year despite our lottery pick this year. speaking of the lottery pick, we should have around the same number pick in this draft ( 7-10) that is stacked. many great pieces to put around porzingis when he comes back. another building block. we will have another great pick next year so those are two great players if our scouting and player development do their jobs. the issue is how fast will porzingis take to be back to where he was? he is young and have a great work ethic so he should be back to form but his game COULD change. he will be more of a center than a power forward. if he is good and these picks work out, then we can compete in 2019-2020 season. then we will be a player in the free agency market that year which could be a decent class. i think it is possible to be elite in 2020-2021. like i said before, philly and boston will be strong then too but we will compete.

Not watching any more of this season or reading that much more of this board, but yes i will comment on the OP's post that this is truly one fucked up franchise that delivers its fans to the exact same place year after year after year. An exemplary example of ineptitude. All the rest is rationalization. Help yourselves to it if that's your appetite.

Marv wrote:Not watching any more of this season or reading that much more of this board, but yes i will comment on the OP's post that this is truly one fucked up franchise that delivers its fans to the exact same place year after year after year. An exemplary example of ineptitude. All the rest is rationalization. Help yourselves to it if that's your appetite.

did someboday say happy hour? marvs here!

Jmpasq wrote:

DJMUSIC wrote:I pondered this since we lost out on Steph Curry pick (desired by Donnie Walsh) but of course
only to have Curry picked 1 spot ahead #7 in NBA by Warriors.

Impact guys of course beside Curry (GS) was Harden (OKC), Derozan(Tor), Teague (Atl) & of course Blake Griffith (LAL)

However sad point is during our many years of Knicks fans the ballclub was really never elite OR good
(e.g playoffs)

Knicks were good 1 season with Mike Woodson , *That's it! exit playoffs.
Our Org. Knick team wasn't even good when Shaq Left Miami for LA, and Kobe, Duncan, a young LBJ began running things in 2004.
Now is what 2018?

During this era of Lebron James, Steph Curry, Chris Paul, James Harden, Westbrook, K.Leonard, J.Butler and on and on
of many oter NBA stars & Superstars in today's and recent years NBA. It P_sses me off like hell that we're that bad
for that long, & watching Lebron getting older cause my heart is all Knickerbockers.

Doesn't it bother you? the very very least that During the tims of these superstars fame mention and some stars prior
to Steph, LBJ, Harden ect. that Our NY Knickerbockers has never been good (yet) while these present NBA stars
carve their niche in NBA History book year in year out.

As avid long time Knick fan I am like many here, it bothers the HELL out of me on how long we've been
VERY bad very unlucky with lessened hope in sight. I ain't saying Lebron Or Steph, Harden , Russell Westbrook
new stars such as Greek-Freek, D.Lillard, Kyrie, P.George, Derozan none of them retiring any time soon.

HOWEVER , how much is a NY Local Knick fan to take? when do we ever turn the corner ? WITHOUT hittting "Reset" button year in yr. out
All the bad that's happened to our Knickerbocker organization as far as being irrelevant in contention in NBA East conference
basketball. Really hurts every season with no hope.

Where is confidence in organization? that Knickerbockers will hit reset & have a Coach in place for June 2018 draft ( 3 picks)
Its way over due that J.Hornachek and Kurtis 'blow' Rambis need to be out of Knicks plans. But I'll believe that when I see it!

I ponder how much Or when? does all this Knick fortune Or lack of planning to be the ELITE in NBA or among the best
this topic is hard pill to swallow.

Lebron and company NBA stars has & will never ever seen the Knickerbockers really really GOOD! anytime soon.

My guess is never, we had our shot when Donovan Mitchell was on the board, coupled with the Porzingis injury this phase of Knicks basketball is already dead. Basically everything is tied to ping pong balls for the next 2 years. Hopefully we get lucky for once but most likely we will get screwed because thats the Knicks

I just read your post.. and was like WOW. He didnt mention the Noah contract. LOL. oops.

CrushAlot wrote:

DJMUSIC wrote:Why doesn't knick management take blueprint from successful NBA francises?
Get that sure Jerry West type basketball guru, then let him
Get others in mix to scout/ draft as well as hire coaches who can aid in the
Recruitment of college stars in to be attracted to NY as place to play and win.
Of course with right piece/needs in place.

They tried to bring in name basketball guys. The closest to West was Walsh. Bringing in Perry, targeting players 25 and under, valuing solid vets on the team for continuity, not trading picks, and acquiring picks are the first steps to being a stable franchise. Also, not chasing the quick fix is a nice change. It may take awhile but the Knicks look to have four lottery picks (if 2019 pick is a lottery pick) in 5 years playing together by 2019. Add Burke, Mudiay, Tim and Kanter to that group and the team has the potential for roster continuity and team success for a long time. They also will have flexible assets and eventually cap space to work with.
I can only speak for myself, but I am enjoying the post all star, young knick games a lot more than the Jack, Lee, Thomas... chase the 8th seed squad that was playing before the all star game. The Knicks are must see tv for me again.

I follow closely but its tough to watch nightly. You are 100% correct though. They have never even TRIED to do it the right way. Taking the time to build a young core of talent is the first step.

What are the blueprints for the "super teams?"
Does Miami build theirs if they dont draft a franchise player in Wade?
Does GS build one without lottery talent like Curry/Klay followed up with drafting Draymond?
Who is OKC's best player? Where did he come from?
How did the Spurs build and gather their core?
Cavs? No Kyrie no title. No tops picks/young players to move no Love.

All these teams had some period (expect the Spurs and Duncan) that had some period of sucking while they collected assets and young players that they could use or develop to build an elite team.

Knicks are finally doing it right. Kemba Walker or Payton arent turning this around. Its going to take time and by time I mean the team is going to suck.

nyk4ever wrote:

Marv wrote:Not watching any more of this season or reading that much more of this board, but yes i will comment on the OP's post that this is truly one fucked up franchise that delivers its fans to the exact same place year after year after year. An exemplary example of ineptitude. All the rest is rationalization. Help yourselves to it if that's your appetite.

did someboday say happy hour? marvs here!

yes! something fruity to wash the bitter taste away

CrushAlot wrote:

DJMUSIC wrote:Why doesn't knick management take blueprint from successful NBA francises?
Get that sure Jerry West type basketball guru, then let him
Get others in mix to scout/ draft as well as hire coaches who can aid in the
Recruitment of college stars in to be attracted to NY as place to play and win.
Of course with right piece/needs in place.

They tried to bring in name basketball guys. The closest to West was Walsh. Bringing in Perry, targeting players 25 and under, valuing solid vets on the team for continuity, not trading picks, and acquiring picks are the first steps to being a stable franchise. Also, not chasing the quick fix is a nice change. It may take awhile but the Knicks look to have four lottery picks (if 2019 pick is a lottery pick) in 5 years playing together by 2019. Add Burke, Mudiay, Tim and Kanter to that group and the team has the potential for roster continuity and team success for a long time. They also will have flexible assets and eventually cap space to work with.
I can only speak for myself, but I am enjoying the post all star, young knick games a lot more than the Jack, Lee, Thomas... chase the 8th seed squad that was playing before the all star game. The Knicks are must see tv for me again.

If we were showing growth, winning some games here and there i would say ok, but we are the worst team in the league since xmas(the eastern conference is as weak as i've seen it in 30+ yrs..zero power house teams) losing in all kinds of ways, and you consider the KNICKS must see TV, a bunch of cast off players that no one really wants.

Your talking about an era of the NBA where players (mostly stars) are on the move waaayyyy more than any other era, and we have just ONE untouchable player. Ninety percent of this roster will be turned over in the next 12 months...4 months ago willy was part of the future..no we don't trade draft picks, we draft them then trade them.

8th seed one yr, top 3 the next yr, then contender(3 yr window) some you think lottery one yr, then top 3 the next, and if your not a contender you should only focus on losing..wow

The knicks have enough talent to win games (despite the cast offs) but they don't have a winning mentality. The knicks in the 90's were the exact opposite, not a lot of talent, but a winning mentality..fight,guts, heart, pride

For all their talk, this team does not play defense. It was brought up in another thread that with this "youth movement", defense must be emphasized. No D, no play. Defense can be the equalizer when talent is lacking. Start NOW. Everyone has heard about it. Very few are doing it. Refuse to be outworked. Refuse to be out hustled. If these guys are too tired to give effort in the third quarter, let somebody else play. I'm really getting tired of watching half a game.