Knicks · This might be the year .. we trade down from #9 for multiple first round picks (page 1)

This might be the year .. we trade down from #9 multiple first round picks, as I can see both Philadelphia (#10 and #18) and the LA Clippers (#12 and #14) being interested trade partners. Philly could target Mikal Bridges while LAC could target Colin Sexton. We could also look to pick up a late first rounder using #38 as trade bait, if we're so inclined.

Looking back at recent trades dating over the past six years(hat tip to www.thedraftreview.com), those would be fairish value:

#9 pick

in 2013, Minnesota traded the #9 pick (Trey Burke) to Utah for the #14 (Shabazz Muhammad) and #21 (Gorgui Dieng) picks
in 2014, Philadelphia traded the #10 pick (Elfrid Payton) for Dario Saric (#12 pick), a 2015 second rounder and a return of Philly's own top 10 protected 2017 pick
in 2015, Sacramento traded the #8 pick (Marquese Chriss) to Phoenix for the #13(Georgios Papagiannis), #28 (Skal Labissiere), a 2020 second round pick and Bogdan Bogdanovic (unsigned 27th pick in 2014 draft)
in 2017, Portland traded the #10 pick (Zach Collins) to Sacramento for the #15 (Justin Jackson) and #20 (Harry Giles) picks

so it would be reasonable to expect that the #9 pick this year can return either:
a) Philadelphia's #10 and #18 picks
b) Los Angeles Clippers #12 and #14 picks

#38 pick

in 2013, Utah traded the #46 pick (Erick Greene) and cash to Denver for the #27 pick (Rudy Gobert)
in 2013, Milwaukee traded the #43 pick (Ricky Ledo) and a 2014 Brooklyn Nets second round pick for #38 (Nate Wolters)
in 2013, Portland traded the #40 pick (Grant Jarrett) to OKC for cash
in 2014, Washington traded the #46 pick (Jordan Clarkson) to LAL for cash
in 2016, Milwaukee traded the #38 pick (Patrick McCaw) to Golden State for cash
in 2016, New Orleans traded the #39 pick (David Michineau) and #40 pick (Diamond Stone) to LAC for the #33 pick (Chieck Diallo)
in 2017, Los Angeles Lakers traded the #28 pick (Tony Bradley) for #30 (Jason Hart) and #42 (Thomas Bryant)

so it would seem that #38 and either cash or a future second round pick could get us LAL's #26 pick or GSW's #29 picks - both of whom might look to avoid 1st round salary obligations

so we might be able to end up with a combo of:

athletic SF/PF (Miles Bridges/Kevin Knox)
athletic PF/C (Robert Williams/Daniel Gafford/Mitchell Robinson)
backup depth (Troy Brown/Chandler Hutchison/Isaac Bonga)

wouldn't be the worst idea ... i don't really have a strong preference between the Bridges and Kevin Knox .. thoughts?

ccinflushing wrote:This might be the year .. we trade down from #9 multiple first round picks, as I can see both Philadelphia (#10 and #18) and the LA Clippers (#12 and #14) being interested trade partners. Philly could target Mikal Bridges while LAC could target Colin Sexton. We could also look to pick up a late first rounder using #38 as trade bait, if we're so inclined.

Looking back at recent trades dating over the past six years(hat tip to www.thedraftreview.com), those would be fairish value:

#9 pick

in 2013, Minnesota traded the #9 pick (Trey Burke) to Utah for the #14 (Shabazz Muhammad) and #21 (Gorgui Dieng) picks
in 2014, Philadelphia traded the #10 pick (Elfrid Payton) for Dario Saric (#12 pick), a 2015 second rounder and a return of Philly's own top 10 protected 2017 pick
in 2015, Sacramento traded the #8 pick (Marquese Chriss) to Phoenix for the #13(Georgios Papagiannis), #28 (Skal Labissiere), a 2020 second round pick and Bogdan Bogdanovic (unsigned 27th pick in 2014 draft)
in 2017, Portland traded the #10 pick (Zach Collins) to Sacramento for the #15 (Justin Jackson) and #20 (Harry Giles) picks

so it would be reasonable to expect that the #9 pick this year can return either:
a) Philadelphia's #10 and #18 picks
b) Los Angeles Clippers #12 and #14 picks

#38 pick

in 2013, Utah traded the #46 pick (Erick Greene) and cash to Denver for the #27 pick (Rudy Gobert)
in 2013, Milwaukee traded the #43 pick (Ricky Ledo) and a 2014 Brooklyn Nets second round pick for #38 (Nate Wolters)
in 2013, Portland traded the #40 pick (Grant Jarrett) to OKC for cash
in 2014, Washington traded the #46 pick (Jordan Clarkson) to LAL for cash
in 2016, Milwaukee traded the #38 pick (Patrick McCaw) to Golden State for cash
in 2016, New Orleans traded the #39 pick (David Michineau) and #40 pick (Diamond Stone) to LAC for the #33 pick (Chieck Diallo)
in 2017, Los Angeles Lakers traded the #28 pick (Tony Bradley) for #30 (Jason Hart) and #42 (Thomas Bryant)

so it would seem that #38 and either cash or a future second round pick could get us LAL's #26 pick or GSW's #29 picks - both of whom might look to avoid 1st round salary obligations

so we might be able to end up with a combo of:

athletic SF/PF (Miles Bridges/Kevin Knox)
athletic PF/C (Robert Williams/Daniel Gafford/Mitchell Robinson)
backup depth (Troy Brown/Chandler Hutchison/Isaac Bonga)

wouldn't be the worst idea ... i don't really have a strong preference between the Bridges and Kevin Knox .. thoughts?

Im not dead set on either plan right now. I probably would have leaned more toward trading down a weeks ago, before the "incident But I see so many holes in this roster now that drafting the best player available at 9 probably wouldn't hurt us.
I'd have no problems trading a 2 and cash for a first-rounder. It depends on who the front office targets. They might see feel the player they like will be at 38 anyway.

With the considerable drop in talent after the top 12 prospects or so, i don't think this is the year to trade down. Depth won't be an issue for us, we need a high level starter, which can be acquired at the top of the draft.

Well we would still be in the top 12 if we traded with Philly or LA, while picking up an additional asset .. admittedly with LA we might have to throw in #38 and cash ..

ccinflushing wrote:This might be the year .. we trade down from #9 multiple first round picks, as I can see both Philadelphia (#10 and #18) and the LA Clippers (#12 and #14) being interested trade partners. Philly could target Mikal Bridges while LAC could target Colin Sexton. We could also look to pick up a late first rounder using #38 as trade bait, if we're so inclined.

Looking back at recent trades dating over the past six years(hat tip to www.thedraftreview.com), those would be fairish value:

#9 pick

in 2013, Minnesota traded the #9 pick (Trey Burke) to Utah for the #14 (Shabazz Muhammad) and #21 (Gorgui Dieng) picks
in 2014, Philadelphia traded the #10 pick (Elfrid Payton) for Dario Saric (#12 pick), a 2015 second rounder and a return of Philly's own top 10 protected 2017 pick
in 2015, Sacramento traded the #8 pick (Marquese Chriss) to Phoenix for the #13(Georgios Papagiannis), #28 (Skal Labissiere), a 2020 second round pick and Bogdan Bogdanovic (unsigned 27th pick in 2014 draft)
in 2017, Portland traded the #10 pick (Zach Collins) to Sacramento for the #15 (Justin Jackson) and #20 (Harry Giles) picks

so it would be reasonable to expect that the #9 pick this year can return either:
a) Philadelphia's #10 and #18 picks
b) Los Angeles Clippers #12 and #14 picks

#38 pick

in 2013, Utah traded the #46 pick (Erick Greene) and cash to Denver for the #27 pick (Rudy Gobert)
in 2013, Milwaukee traded the #43 pick (Ricky Ledo) and a 2014 Brooklyn Nets second round pick for #38 (Nate Wolters)
in 2013, Portland traded the #40 pick (Grant Jarrett) to OKC for cash
in 2014, Washington traded the #46 pick (Jordan Clarkson) to LAL for cash
in 2016, Milwaukee traded the #38 pick (Patrick McCaw) to Golden State for cash
in 2016, New Orleans traded the #39 pick (David Michineau) and #40 pick (Diamond Stone) to LAC for the #33 pick (Chieck Diallo)
in 2017, Los Angeles Lakers traded the #28 pick (Tony Bradley) for #30 (Jason Hart) and #42 (Thomas Bryant)

so it would seem that #38 and either cash or a future second round pick could get us LAL's #26 pick or GSW's #29 picks - both of whom might look to avoid 1st round salary obligations

so we might be able to end up with a combo of:

athletic SF/PF (Miles Bridges/Kevin Knox)
athletic PF/C (Robert Williams/Daniel Gafford/Mitchell Robinson)
backup depth (Troy Brown/Chandler Hutchison/Isaac Bonga)

wouldn't be the worst idea ... i don't really have a strong preference between the Bridges and Kevin Knox .. thoughts?

Looking at the teams
Grizz can go any direction but for now with Gasol, Conley, Evans they probably target a SF/PF. Could possibly draft Doncic.
Magic for now look like they want a PG
Hawks will probably go Center since they have Prince at SF and Dennis at PG. Or Doncic at SG
Suns added Payton and have Jackson & Booker so probably go Center
Mavs have Smith, Barnes, Powell has been lighting it up. They probably go Center or Doncic at SG.
Kings will look to go SF/PF they would love a Porter jr or Miles Bridges but could also be interested in a Begley or Jackson
Cavs with Hill and Clarkson along with Hood. They have revamped their guard play. They can go BPA. Would probably like a killer like Sexton or a shooter like Young. But won't rule out forward depth. Another big that can hit the 3 works but could find a role player for that.
Bulls will look at SF/PF

So
2 teams with PG needs
3 teams with SG needs
3 teams with SF needs
5 teams with PF/C needs

Given what these teams have on their rosters already. I can see guys like Knox, Bridges, Sexton, moving in that top 8 range while Bamba and Carter hit the 9-12 range.

At this moment I would love a Bamba, Hutchison combination. However we are able to pull it off.

I think we have to trade up. We need star power more than depth. Burke and Mudiay are proof you can get depth cheaply by looking in the G League and unsigned FA.

We're missing an impact player who can attack the basket, pull defensive focus his way. THjr is too inconsistent and KP might be a Robin, not a batman.

franco12 wrote:I think we have to trade up. We need star power more than depth. Burke and Mudiay are proof you can get depth cheaply by looking in the G League and unsigned FA.

We're missing an impact player who can attack the basket, pull defensive focus his way. THjr is too inconsistent and KP might be a Robin, not a batman.

Doncic might be the closest to that guy in the top 5, but we don't have the right assets to pull that off. The 76ers had to give up a top 5 pick and another potential lottery/mid first round pick. We don't have enough assets to pull off something like that.

ccinflushing wrote:This might be the year .. we trade down from #9 multiple first round picks, as I can see both Philadelphia (#10 and #18) and the LA Clippers (#12 and #14) being interested trade partners. ....

wouldn't be the worst idea ... i don't really have a strong preference between the Bridges and Kevin Knox .. thoughts?

Wanted to say thank you for this post. Well thought out and constructed for the benefit of the greater discussion of all. A value add to the forum and community. You generally post like this and wished more guys would respond to your threads to further encourage this kind/quality of posting.

Something for thought, apparently Sacramento asked Portland for a pick that was a drop in tier for the current draft and ideally wanted a pick in the next draft, not the 20th. To my best understanding, most teams want rookies, of course, but there is a strain when there are too many at once. It's a strain on the coaching staff and developmental staff. That's not to say the G League is ideally the best alternative always, but there is a point where too many rookies at once throws off a teams balance. ( The primary goal is to win games, sometimes individual development can be mutually exclusive to that goal)

Keeping with that, if the Knicks traded down, it might serve them to try take a pick one tier down, then see if they can get a pick in another future draft.

It always comes down to who you pick. The Bulls traded up for McBuckets and that just didn't work out. But from a raw statistical/cost versus benefit perspective, the lower you pick in general, the pan out rate tends to collapse on you. Volume simply doesn't work the same in the NBA as the NFL and MLB.

But again, thanks for this post. I do hope you post more and more often.

newyorknewyork wrote:

ccinflushing wrote:This might be the year .. we trade down from #9 multiple first round picks, as I can see both Philadelphia (#10 and #18) and the LA Clippers (#12 and #14) being interested trade partners. Philly could target Mikal Bridges while LAC could target Colin Sexton. We could also look to pick up a late first rounder using #38 as trade bait, if we're so inclined.

Looking back at recent trades dating over the past six years(hat tip to www.thedraftreview.com), those would be fairish value:

#9 pick

in 2013, Minnesota traded the #9 pick (Trey Burke) to Utah for the #14 (Shabazz Muhammad) and #21 (Gorgui Dieng) picks
in 2014, Philadelphia traded the #10 pick (Elfrid Payton) for Dario Saric (#12 pick), a 2015 second rounder and a return of Philly's own top 10 protected 2017 pick
in 2015, Sacramento traded the #8 pick (Marquese Chriss) to Phoenix for the #13(Georgios Papagiannis), #28 (Skal Labissiere), a 2020 second round pick and Bogdan Bogdanovic (unsigned 27th pick in 2014 draft)
in 2017, Portland traded the #10 pick (Zach Collins) to Sacramento for the #15 (Justin Jackson) and #20 (Harry Giles) picks

so it would be reasonable to expect that the #9 pick this year can return either:
a) Philadelphia's #10 and #18 picks
b) Los Angeles Clippers #12 and #14 picks

#38 pick

in 2013, Utah traded the #46 pick (Erick Greene) and cash to Denver for the #27 pick (Rudy Gobert)
in 2013, Milwaukee traded the #43 pick (Ricky Ledo) and a 2014 Brooklyn Nets second round pick for #38 (Nate Wolters)
in 2013, Portland traded the #40 pick (Grant Jarrett) to OKC for cash
in 2014, Washington traded the #46 pick (Jordan Clarkson) to LAL for cash
in 2016, Milwaukee traded the #38 pick (Patrick McCaw) to Golden State for cash
in 2016, New Orleans traded the #39 pick (David Michineau) and #40 pick (Diamond Stone) to LAC for the #33 pick (Chieck Diallo)
in 2017, Los Angeles Lakers traded the #28 pick (Tony Bradley) for #30 (Jason Hart) and #42 (Thomas Bryant)

so it would seem that #38 and either cash or a future second round pick could get us LAL's #26 pick or GSW's #29 picks - both of whom might look to avoid 1st round salary obligations

so we might be able to end up with a combo of:

athletic SF/PF (Miles Bridges/Kevin Knox)
athletic PF/C (Robert Williams/Daniel Gafford/Mitchell Robinson)
backup depth (Troy Brown/Chandler Hutchison/Isaac Bonga)

wouldn't be the worst idea ... i don't really have a strong preference between the Bridges and Kevin Knox .. thoughts?

Looking at the teams
Grizz can go any direction but for now with Gasol, Conley, Evans they probably target a SF/PF. Could possibly draft Doncic.
Magic for now look like they want a PG
Hawks will probably go Center since they have Prince at SF and Dennis at PG. Or Doncic at SG
Suns added Payton and have Jackson & Booker so probably go Center
Mavs have Smith, Barnes, Powell has been lighting it up. They probably go Center or Doncic at SG.
Kings will look to go SF/PF they would love a Porter jr or Miles Bridges but could also be interested in a Begley or Jackson
Cavs with Hill and Clarkson along with Hood. They have revamped their guard play. They can go BPA. Would probably like a killer like Sexton or a shooter like Young. But won't rule out forward depth. Another big that can hit the 3 works but could find a role player for that.
Bulls will look at SF/PF

So
2 teams with PG needs
3 teams with SG needs
3 teams with SF needs
5 teams with PF/C needs

Given what these teams have on their rosters already. I can see guys like Knox, Bridges, Sexton, moving in that top 8 range while Bamba and Carter hit the 9-12 range.

From your lips to Gods ears.if Mo Bamba is available at 8 (we are 2 backninnthe loss column) or 9, I’d be surprised but i would grab him in a NY minute and not worry about the 5 spot for 10 years.
Tim is under contract as is Lee and Lance and our 10 Day wonder. So SF - while in dire need of a two way all star - can wait another year, or we can package next years First and Tim or Lee or one of our 4 young guards for a bona Fide SF (or wait until next years draft).

ccinflushing wrote:Well we would still be in the top 12 if we traded with Philly or LA, while picking up an additional asset .. admittedly with LA we might have to throw in #38 and cash ..

It's a good option for the Knicks to throw on the grease board. I think at 10 and 12, a player that the Knicks would draft at 8 or 9 would stl be there... then you add the second pick at 14 or 18... That's good shit right there.

When I first glanced at this post I kind of chuckled “no way - not this year” BUT given Philly has 10 & 18 and Clips 12 & 14 it isn’t so far fetched as you state.

For me the drop off starts after 12 —- post the likes of the 2 Bridges, Knox and Sexton likely going off the board so at #10 via Sixers or #12 via Clips we could still net a legit prospect....while adding another extra pick to try to boost our piss poor talent level.

Throw in the #38 pick and we c o7ld conceivably walk away with something like say Sexton 10, k-Thomas 18 and M-Frazier #38....something like that.

I definitetly see Philly moving up for Mykal.

It is an interesting idea when you consider the following two mock drafts have down as those picks:

NBAdraft.net, Collin Sexton (#9) versus Kevin Knox (#10) and Hamidou Diallo (#18) or Miles Bridges (#12) and Robert Williams (#14)

I doubt we would draft Collin Sexton because he is not a clear upgrade over the trio of young point guards we have on our roster. With that said, he is a very athletic player and has elite speed, has good defensive potential, and despite being an underwhelming shooter he does have an array of skills to be able to score. I have seen him compared to Eric Bledsoe and De'Aaron Fox, which is not exactly a bad thing!

If someone says to me that I can trade back one pick and land Kevin Knox or Mikal Bridges, while picking up another first round pick to land a player like Hamidou Diallo, then I would snap the 76ers GMs' hand off and not hesitant when taking that phone call. Even if they were trading up to select Kevin Knox or Mikal Bridges, I would still happily take that deal because I would still be adding someone I like plus another talent later in the draft. So personally if the draft board falls in this manner and the 76ers pick up the phone and offer us the trade, I would take it. Granted I would take Mikal Bridges over Kevin Knox, and I might be tempted to gamble on Mitchell Robinson (his upside intrigues me) but I'd be happy enough with Diallo.

As for the other deal, it is not as appealing as the first option but I would at least consider it. Miles Bridges is a decent talent, not a great one, but he could develop into a glue guy. Those players have value in this league and if he develops a consistent outside shot and commits to defense to go alongside his athleticism and ability to attack the basket, he has intriguing upside. As for the other pick, Robert Williams is another decent talent. What Williams lacks in height he makes up for in length and athleticism. What he lacks on the offensive end he makes up for on the defensive end. He could fit next to KP in the starting line up because he brings defense to the table, can block shots, and is a decent enough rebounder. It would be a nice duo to add to the team.

For me, I would be tempted to trade down unless someone from the top half dozen or so picks fell to us at 9 or I felt strongly that Mikal Bridges or Kevin Knox needs to come to New York because they can become special and be a long term running mate for KP.

NBAdraftroom.com, Trae Young (#9) versus Lonnie Walker (#10) and Shai Gilgeous-Alexander (#18) or Daniel Gafford (#12) and Zhaire Smith (#14)

In this mock draft Ayton, Porter, Bagley, Jackson, Doncic, Bamba, Mikal and Carter are the players selected before we are on the clock.

Let me start by saying that if Trae Young falls to 9, then I would be jumping for joy because he has the ability and potential to be a really good player at the next level. This kid can shoot, score, and pass the ball to a high level. Okay his defense is not that good and he lacks ideal size, but guess what, we have Frank to pair with him in the back court to make up for those shortcomings. I would love to see a Trae Young and Frank Ntilikina back court in New York long term.

Despite the ideal scenario, let's consider the first deal. I don't like this mock drafts picks at #10 and #18. I would rather draft Kevin Knox (he goes 11) and Robert Williams (he goes 22).

The other scenario I don't particularly like either. I would rather pick Miles Bridges (he goes 12) and Collin Sexton (he goes 15).

For me, I would not be tempted to trade down in this scenario because one of the top half dozen or so talents has fallen to us with our original pick.

So what would I do, keep the pick or trade down?

Ultimately the answer to this question comes down to how the chips falls on draft night. If someone falls, I would keep the pick. However, if no one falls I would be more tempted by the 76ers picks than the Clippers picks, but it would still depend on who is available. If Knox and Mikal are there at 9, I would be tempted to trade back because I would still get someone I like. However, if only one of them still on the board at 9, I would retain the pick and take them. And that's without considering the possibility of trading back before the action starts, if these deals are only on the table before the draft starts then I would be hesitant at trading back.

Now that we know that our pick is most probably #9, PHI most likely has #10 and #26, and LAC most likely has #12 and #13 .. the most likely trade partner in the event that we look to trade down would be PHI

We could do #9 and #37 in exchange for #10, #26, #38 and #39 .. I'd probably only do this if Miles Bridges, Colin Sexton, Trae Young, Kevin Knox are the options available at #9

Why would PHI do this - get first crack at their preferred choice and they already have too many young players and not enough roster slots?

Why would we do it? More holes to fill ..

I think I would be happy with a Miles Bridges/Chandler Hutchison/Chimezie Metu/De'Anthony Melton haul from this draft

We can offer one of the second rounders a two way contract if we're tight on roster space

I doubt Philly is going to trade with us to move up one pick. Their most likely target is Mihkal Bridges but if we draft him they are probably saying to themselves we can still get Knox, who may turn into a better player, or Miles Bridges. LA might be willing to deal but they would really have to like someone at the 9 spot and I don't think there is anyone there that I would trade up for and give up a second pick. I think the Knicks should draft Miles or Knox and move on. Miles, Frank, and KP would form one of the best defensive teams in the league.

I think PHI really should be looking to consolidate their draft picks to move up - I think they'll struggle to open playing time for their multiple draft picks with Fultz seeing increasing playing time in the future and likely high level free agent additions. So maybe they don't trade up but instead just trade #26 for a future first ..

But if they wanted to trade up - say for Trae Young (who I think would be a great fit there) or Miles Bridges - then the Knicks would be make a viable trade partner and #10 and #26 is fairish value for #9

So guys if we get the number pick, let a guy dream dammut, would u guts trade it to teams with multiple picks, like Philly or pheniux, or atl or clippers?

dacash wrote:So guys if we get the number pick, let a guy dream dammut, would u guts trade it to teams with multiple picks, like Philly or pheniux, or atl or clippers?

It’s a good discussion, increase statistical odds by multiple picks or swing for the fence with a blue chip prospect. There is a mathematical answer somewhere. There is such a fine line at the draft moment but then look how far Jalil Okafor and KP are from each other but one pick set them apart!

Heard this proposed on nba radio by a Clipper fan that said Doc doesn't develop players so the Clips should trade up. I think it is a great idea. Draft Kevin Knox and Khyri Thomas. It would be similar to when the Nets traded for Kidd, drafted Jefferson, Collins, and Armstrong. Franchise fortune changing trade on draft night. I think it is a great idea.

CrushAlot wrote:Heard this proposed on nba radio by a Clipper fan that said Doc doesn't develop players so the Clips should trade up. I think it is a great idea. Draft Kevin Knox and Khyri Thomas. It would be similar to when the Nets traded for Kidd, drafted Jefferson, Collins, and Armstrong. Franchise fortune changing trade on draft night. I think it is a great idea.

If they develop those two can be something. It is great idea.

Lawrence Frank is the man in charge now, not DOC. Doc don’t develope players, but he might if he wants to Live and Die in L.A.

Good concept. The past is not always redundant to the future.