Knicks · "Mike Budenholzer wants Knicks job because he’s sick of losing" (page 1)

Muahahaha

Barking up the wrong tree there, Mikey!

I wish I may, I wish I might
Have this wish I wish tonight
I want that star, I want it now
I want it all and I don’t care how

Careful what you wish
Careful what you say
Careful what you wish, you may regret it
Careful what you wish, you just might get it

Metallica

This is a form of an oxymoron.
Remember that "formidable" commercial

He meant that the Knicks suck, but they're still trying to win games. He likes that mentality.

Uh huh. We didn't just tank half a season, avid fans calling to tank again next year

Panos wrote:Uh huh. We didn't just tank half a season, avid fans calling to tank again next year

You’re talking like someone with no idea of Budenholzer’s coaching ability! The Knicks are a good landing spot for a quality Coach. He would be perfect for this building process. This team needs a coach who can develop talent and also coach a winning roster. IMO Budenholzer should be the #1 option right now.

nixluva wrote:

Panos wrote:Uh huh. We didn't just tank half a season, avid fans calling to tank again next year

Youre talking like someone with no idea of Budenholzer's coaching ability! The Knicks are a good landing spot for a quality Coach. He would be perfect for this building process. This team needs a coach who can develop talent and also coach a winning roster. IMO Budenholzer should be the #1 option right now.

You're talking like someone with no idea of a winning roster.

Panos wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Panos wrote:Uh huh. We didn't just tank half a season, avid fans calling to tank again next year

Youre talking like someone with no idea of Budenholzer's coaching ability! The Knicks are a good landing spot for a quality Coach. He would be perfect for this building process. This team needs a coach who can develop talent and also coach a winning roster. IMO Budenholzer should be the #1 option right now.

You're talking like someone with no idea of a winning roster.

lets look at the difference between the two situations. Atl is not looking to sign FAs. They are looking to start their own "process" and model after Phili. If you are a losing franchise and want to run a bare bones cheap as possible operation this is a home run sell. Not so great for Bud as the next three years are spent flipping picks and bad contracts for the best shot at drafting a couple stars in a row.

Now lets look at the Knicks situation.

Bud would have some pieces to work with on perimeter and wing spots:
PG Burke, Baker, Mudiay
SG THjr, Frank, Dotson
SF Williams
PF Hicks
C Kornet
+ 2018 first round pick
+ 2018 2nd round pick

Those are the guys Bud will get to "coach." Not a bad mix considering:
Burke doesnt turn it over and can run an NBA offense
Frank, Baker, Dotson, Williams and Hicks are all enthusiastic defenders and run through walls. Kornet is useful in the right spots.
THjr he's coached from Dleague to big money.

He will have some vets to lean on. I suspect they make a move or two but who knows... maybe Lance/Lee/Beasley all come back. Maybe KOQ take a 2 year deal. Maybe Noah comes back off the juice and 2 years of rest are good for his knees.

Eventually KP will come back. Until then there is zero pressure.... just get them playing well. If they win games great. IF they lose games you play it by ear. Like this year try to take advantage. I think people around the league know Perry. People here have a painted image of Mills but he was very successful at his prior jobs and yes this is a first for him but do we know what kind of guy he is? What his rep is? What does the league think of Mills?

Time will tell... but I dont think its fair to laugh and say same old Knicks. While I dont expect us to win next year at least we are allowed to... and maybe Bud runs a squad out there featuring an uptempo game, a Wolverine backcourt with Williams and Frank playing the forwards next to Kanter and suddenly Frank/Williams/THjr are playing some decent D, Burke disrupts the passing lanes, Kanter is a monster on the glass and plays his physical game and the Knicks gut out a close to .500 schedule.

I think a coach like Bud would like that opportunity. I think he sees a group and a front office with a 3 year play to build up and develop a young core then be in a position to add marquee talent and maintain the vast majority of that young core.

Or maybe they fail and its just another whatever... but I dont think the above is that far fetched. Likely? No... surprising? We won 54 games with Melo, JR and Woodson. Anything is possible and never surprising!

fishmike wrote:

Panos wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Panos wrote:Uh huh. We didn't just tank half a season, avid fans calling to tank again next year

Youre talking like someone with no idea of Budenholzer's coaching ability! The Knicks are a good landing spot for a quality Coach. He would be perfect for this building process. This team needs a coach who can develop talent and also coach a winning roster. IMO Budenholzer should be the #1 option right now.

You're talking like someone with no idea of a winning roster.

lets look at the difference between the two situations. Atl is not looking to sign FAs. They are looking to start their own "process" and model after Phili. If you are a losing franchise and want to run a bare bones cheap as possible operation this is a home run sell. Not so great for Bud as the next three years are spent flipping picks and bad contracts for the best shot at drafting a couple stars in a row.

Now lets look at the Knicks situation.

Bud would have some pieces to work with on perimeter and wing spots:
PG Burke, Baker, Mudiay
SG THjr, Frank, Dotson
SF Williams
PF Hicks
C Kornet
+ 2018 first round pick
+ 2018 2nd round pick

Those are the guys Bud will get to "coach." Not a bad mix considering:
Burke doesnt turn it over and can run an NBA offense
Frank, Baker, Dotson, Williams and Hicks are all enthusiastic defenders and run through walls. Kornet is useful in the right spots.
THjr he's coached from Dleague to big money.

He will have some vets to lean on. I suspect they make a move or two but who knows... maybe Lance/Lee/Beasley all come back. Maybe KOQ take a 2 year deal. Maybe Noah comes back off the juice and 2 years of rest are good for his knees.

Eventually KP will come back. Until then there is zero pressure.... just get them playing well. If they win games great. IF they lose games you play it by ear. Like this year try to take advantage. I think people around the league know Perry. People here have a painted image of Mills but he was very successful at his prior jobs and yes this is a first for him but do we know what kind of guy he is? What his rep is? What does the league think of Mills?

Time will tell... but I dont think its fair to laugh and say same old Knicks. While I dont expect us to win next year at least we are allowed to... and maybe Bud runs a squad out there featuring an uptempo game, a Wolverine backcourt with Williams and Frank playing the forwards next to Kanter and suddenly Frank/Williams/THjr are playing some decent D, Burke disrupts the passing lanes, Kanter is a monster on the glass and plays his physical game and the Knicks gut out a close to .500 schedule.

I think a coach like Bud would like that opportunity. I think he sees a group and a front office with a 3 year play to build up and develop a young core then be in a position to add marquee talent and maintain the vast majority of that young core.

Or maybe they fail and its just another whatever... but I dont think the above is that far fetched. Likely? No... surprising? We won 54 games with Melo, JR and Woodson. Anything is possible and never surprising!

It's funny bringing up one season in 20 years. The Knicks have the most losses in that timeframe despite spending the most money. Just because Atlanta doesn't spend 50 mm on Lee Noah and hardaway doesn't mean they don't want to win

The Knicks are one good coach and 2 good players away from legitimacy.

doomed wrote:The Knicks are one good coach and 2 good players away from legitimacy.

The Knicks have averaged a new coach every season since 2001. At least 4 of them are HOF coaches. You really think the coach is the problem?
2 good players. You can say that about any shitty team. Only 5 play at any given time. Getting 2 good players on a cash strapped team that free agents don't want to come to, that's a significant barrier.

doomed wrote:The Knicks are one good coach and 2 good players away from legitimacy.

Agreed - get Bud and draft well. That leaves 1 more player away. If Kanter goes and if Noah/Lee can be dealt - perhaps there is enough space to open up for next summer and you sign that next player.

Atlanta has exceeded their talent, iMO.

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:

doomed wrote:The Knicks are one good coach and 2 good players away from legitimacy.

Agreed - get Bud and draft well. That leaves 1 more player away. If Kanter goes and if Noah/Lee can be dealt - perhaps there is enough space to open up for next summer and you sign that next player.

Atlanta has exceeded their talent, iMO.

Noah is probably a one team market (Minny) How the Wolves do in the playoffs will help determine how bad Thibs wants another former Bulls player on his team. Noah was the heart and soul of Thibodeau's Bulls. 2 years left on his deal.I will be surprised if he isnt talking to Perry this summer. Had a year to recover from the NBA grind. If Kanter isnt signed long term, we're losing maybe the best offensive rebounder in the league. Better be a good plan B.

GustavBahler wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:

doomed wrote:The Knicks are one good coach and 2 good players away from legitimacy.

Agreed - get Bud and draft well. That leaves 1 more player away. If Kanter goes and if Noah/Lee can be dealt - perhaps there is enough space to open up for next summer and you sign that next player.

Atlanta has exceeded their talent, iMO.

Noah is probably a one team market (Minny) How the Wolves do in the playoffs will help determine how bad Thibs wants another former Bulls player on his team. Noah was the heart and soul of Thibodeau's Bulls. 2 years left on his deal.I will be surprised if he isnt talking to Perry this summer. Had a year to recover from the NBA grind. If Kanter isnt signed long term, we're losing maybe the best offensive rebounder in the league. Better be a good plan B.

Won't happen unless he's stretched or bought out. Thibs, of all people, knows how washed up Noah is. Thibs is probably the main reason why Noah started breaking down. I think we're better of standing pat. There are guys likr Jusuf Nurkic who will probably be availaible. I hope we can get a big in the draft, tho.

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:

doomed wrote:The Knicks are one good coach and 2 good players away from legitimacy.

Agreed - get Bud and draft well. That leaves 1 more player away. If Kanter goes and if Noah/Lee can be dealt - perhaps there is enough space to open up for next summer and you sign that next player.

Atlanta has exceeded their talent, iMO.

Noah is probably a one team market (Minny) How the Wolves do in the playoffs will help determine how bad Thibs wants another former Bulls player on his team. Noah was the heart and soul of Thibodeau's Bulls. 2 years left on his deal.I will be surprised if he isnt talking to Perry this summer. Had a year to recover from the NBA grind. If Kanter isnt signed long term, we're losing maybe the best offensive rebounder in the league. Better be a good plan B.

Won't happen unless he's stretched or bought out. Thibs, of all people, knows how washed up Noah is. Thibs is probably the main reason why Noah started breaking down. I think we're better of standing pat. There are guys likr Jusuf Nurkic who will probably be availaible. I hope we can get a big in the draft, tho.

Almost every player Thibs brought from tbe Bulls was picked over younger, more athletic players with less miles on the odometer. Noah isnt starter material anymore, but his experience, and his familiarity with the roster, the coach, the system, still makes him valuable to Thibs. How valuable remains to be seen.

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Panos wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Panos wrote:Uh huh. We didn't just tank half a season, avid fans calling to tank again next year

Youre talking like someone with no idea of Budenholzer's coaching ability! The Knicks are a good landing spot for a quality Coach. He would be perfect for this building process. This team needs a coach who can develop talent and also coach a winning roster. IMO Budenholzer should be the #1 option right now.

You're talking like someone with no idea of a winning roster.

lets look at the difference between the two situations. Atl is not looking to sign FAs. They are looking to start their own "process" and model after Phili. If you are a losing franchise and want to run a bare bones cheap as possible operation this is a home run sell. Not so great for Bud as the next three years are spent flipping picks and bad contracts for the best shot at drafting a couple stars in a row.

Now lets look at the Knicks situation.

Bud would have some pieces to work with on perimeter and wing spots:
PG Burke, Baker, Mudiay
SG THjr, Frank, Dotson
SF Williams
PF Hicks
C Kornet
+ 2018 first round pick
+ 2018 2nd round pick

Those are the guys Bud will get to "coach." Not a bad mix considering:
Burke doesnt turn it over and can run an NBA offense
Frank, Baker, Dotson, Williams and Hicks are all enthusiastic defenders and run through walls. Kornet is useful in the right spots.
THjr he's coached from Dleague to big money.

He will have some vets to lean on. I suspect they make a move or two but who knows... maybe Lance/Lee/Beasley all come back. Maybe KOQ take a 2 year deal. Maybe Noah comes back off the juice and 2 years of rest are good for his knees.

Eventually KP will come back. Until then there is zero pressure.... just get them playing well. If they win games great. IF they lose games you play it by ear. Like this year try to take advantage. I think people around the league know Perry. People here have a painted image of Mills but he was very successful at his prior jobs and yes this is a first for him but do we know what kind of guy he is? What his rep is? What does the league think of Mills?

Time will tell... but I dont think its fair to laugh and say same old Knicks. While I dont expect us to win next year at least we are allowed to... and maybe Bud runs a squad out there featuring an uptempo game, a Wolverine backcourt with Williams and Frank playing the forwards next to Kanter and suddenly Frank/Williams/THjr are playing some decent D, Burke disrupts the passing lanes, Kanter is a monster on the glass and plays his physical game and the Knicks gut out a close to .500 schedule.

I think a coach like Bud would like that opportunity. I think he sees a group and a front office with a 3 year play to build up and develop a young core then be in a position to add marquee talent and maintain the vast majority of that young core.

Or maybe they fail and its just another whatever... but I dont think the above is that far fetched. Likely? No... surprising? We won 54 games with Melo, JR and Woodson. Anything is possible and never surprising!

It's funny bringing up one season in 20 years. The Knicks have the most losses in that timeframe despite spending the most money. Just because Atlanta doesn't spend 50 mm on Lee Noah and hardaway doesn't mean they don't want to win

That's probably because Dolan has routinely appealed to fans desires to be instantly entertained over actually doing the ground work of building a contender. The crying over the Frank pick over this past season continues to justify his line of thinking.

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:

doomed wrote:The Knicks are one good coach and 2 good players away from legitimacy.

Agreed - get Bud and draft well. That leaves 1 more player away. If Kanter goes and if Noah/Lee can be dealt - perhaps there is enough space to open up for next summer and you sign that next player.

Atlanta has exceeded their talent, iMO.

Noah is probably a one team market (Minny) How the Wolves do in the playoffs will help determine how bad Thibs wants another former Bulls player on his team. Noah was the heart and soul of Thibodeau's Bulls. 2 years left on his deal.I will be surprised if he isnt talking to Perry this summer. Had a year to recover from the NBA grind. If Kanter isnt signed long term, we're losing maybe the best offensive rebounder in the league. Better be a good plan B.

Won't happen unless he's stretched or bought out. Thibs, of all people, knows how washed up Noah is. Thibs is probably the main reason why Noah started breaking down. I think we're better of standing pat. There are guys likr Jusuf Nurkic who will probably be availaible. I hope we can get a big in the draft, tho.

Almost every player Thibs brought from tbe Bulls was picked over younger, more athletic players with less miles on the odometer. Noah isnt starter material anymore, but his experience, and his familiarity with the roster, the coach, the system, still makes him valuable to Thibs. How valuable remains to be seen.

I agree that Noah could find a home there, like Rose. Just won't be at his current deal. It would have to be an expiring, at the very least. Cap considerations play a part at some point.

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Panos wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Panos wrote:Uh huh. We didn't just tank half a season, avid fans calling to tank again next year

Youre talking like someone with no idea of Budenholzer's coaching ability! The Knicks are a good landing spot for a quality Coach. He would be perfect for this building process. This team needs a coach who can develop talent and also coach a winning roster. IMO Budenholzer should be the #1 option right now.

You're talking like someone with no idea of a winning roster.

lets look at the difference between the two situations. Atl is not looking to sign FAs. They are looking to start their own "process" and model after Phili. If you are a losing franchise and want to run a bare bones cheap as possible operation this is a home run sell. Not so great for Bud as the next three years are spent flipping picks and bad contracts for the best shot at drafting a couple stars in a row.

Now lets look at the Knicks situation.

Bud would have some pieces to work with on perimeter and wing spots:
PG Burke, Baker, Mudiay
SG THjr, Frank, Dotson
SF Williams
PF Hicks
C Kornet
+ 2018 first round pick
+ 2018 2nd round pick

Those are the guys Bud will get to "coach." Not a bad mix considering:
Burke doesnt turn it over and can run an NBA offense
Frank, Baker, Dotson, Williams and Hicks are all enthusiastic defenders and run through walls. Kornet is useful in the right spots.
THjr he's coached from Dleague to big money.

He will have some vets to lean on. I suspect they make a move or two but who knows... maybe Lance/Lee/Beasley all come back. Maybe KOQ take a 2 year deal. Maybe Noah comes back off the juice and 2 years of rest are good for his knees.

Eventually KP will come back. Until then there is zero pressure.... just get them playing well. If they win games great. IF they lose games you play it by ear. Like this year try to take advantage. I think people around the league know Perry. People here have a painted image of Mills but he was very successful at his prior jobs and yes this is a first for him but do we know what kind of guy he is? What his rep is? What does the league think of Mills?

Time will tell... but I dont think its fair to laugh and say same old Knicks. While I dont expect us to win next year at least we are allowed to... and maybe Bud runs a squad out there featuring an uptempo game, a Wolverine backcourt with Williams and Frank playing the forwards next to Kanter and suddenly Frank/Williams/THjr are playing some decent D, Burke disrupts the passing lanes, Kanter is a monster on the glass and plays his physical game and the Knicks gut out a close to .500 schedule.

I think a coach like Bud would like that opportunity. I think he sees a group and a front office with a 3 year play to build up and develop a young core then be in a position to add marquee talent and maintain the vast majority of that young core.

Or maybe they fail and its just another whatever... but I dont think the above is that far fetched. Likely? No... surprising? We won 54 games with Melo, JR and Woodson. Anything is possible and never surprising!

It's funny bringing up one season in 20 years. The Knicks have the most losses in that timeframe despite spending the most money. Just because Atlanta doesn't spend 50 mm on Lee Noah and hardaway doesn't mean they don't want to win

That's probably because Dolan has routinely appealed to fans desires to be instantly entertained over actually doing the ground work of building a contender. The crying over the Frank pick over this past season continues to justify his line of thinking.

+1000, I would add that the willingness by some to give up on KP is in the same strain

newyorknewyork wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Panos wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Panos wrote:Uh huh. We didn't just tank half a season, avid fans calling to tank again next year

Youre talking like someone with no idea of Budenholzer's coaching ability! The Knicks are a good landing spot for a quality Coach. He would be perfect for this building process. This team needs a coach who can develop talent and also coach a winning roster. IMO Budenholzer should be the #1 option right now.

You're talking like someone with no idea of a winning roster.

lets look at the difference between the two situations. Atl is not looking to sign FAs. They are looking to start their own "process" and model after Phili. If you are a losing franchise and want to run a bare bones cheap as possible operation this is a home run sell. Not so great for Bud as the next three years are spent flipping picks and bad contracts for the best shot at drafting a couple stars in a row.

Now lets look at the Knicks situation.

Bud would have some pieces to work with on perimeter and wing spots:
PG Burke, Baker, Mudiay
SG THjr, Frank, Dotson
SF Williams
PF Hicks
C Kornet
+ 2018 first round pick
+ 2018 2nd round pick

Those are the guys Bud will get to "coach." Not a bad mix considering:
Burke doesnt turn it over and can run an NBA offense
Frank, Baker, Dotson, Williams and Hicks are all enthusiastic defenders and run through walls. Kornet is useful in the right spots.
THjr he's coached from Dleague to big money.

He will have some vets to lean on. I suspect they make a move or two but who knows... maybe Lance/Lee/Beasley all come back. Maybe KOQ take a 2 year deal. Maybe Noah comes back off the juice and 2 years of rest are good for his knees.

Eventually KP will come back. Until then there is zero pressure.... just get them playing well. If they win games great. IF they lose games you play it by ear. Like this year try to take advantage. I think people around the league know Perry. People here have a painted image of Mills but he was very successful at his prior jobs and yes this is a first for him but do we know what kind of guy he is? What his rep is? What does the league think of Mills?

Time will tell... but I dont think its fair to laugh and say same old Knicks. While I dont expect us to win next year at least we are allowed to... and maybe Bud runs a squad out there featuring an uptempo game, a Wolverine backcourt with Williams and Frank playing the forwards next to Kanter and suddenly Frank/Williams/THjr are playing some decent D, Burke disrupts the passing lanes, Kanter is a monster on the glass and plays his physical game and the Knicks gut out a close to .500 schedule.

I think a coach like Bud would like that opportunity. I think he sees a group and a front office with a 3 year play to build up and develop a young core then be in a position to add marquee talent and maintain the vast majority of that young core.

Or maybe they fail and its just another whatever... but I dont think the above is that far fetched. Likely? No... surprising? We won 54 games with Melo, JR and Woodson. Anything is possible and never surprising!

It's funny bringing up one season in 20 years. The Knicks have the most losses in that timeframe despite spending the most money. Just because Atlanta doesn't spend 50 mm on Lee Noah and hardaway doesn't mean they don't want to win

That's probably because Dolan has routinely appealed to fans desires to be instantly entertained over actually doing the ground work of building a contender. The crying over the Frank pick over this past season continues to justify his line of thinking.

Concise!

Panos wrote:

doomed wrote:The Knicks are one good coach and 2 good players away from legitimacy.

The Knicks have averaged a new coach every season since 2001. At least 4 of them are HOF coaches. You really think the coach is the problem?
2 good players. You can say that about any shitty team. Only 5 play at any given time. Getting 2 good players on a cash strapped team that free agents don't want to come to, that's a significant barrier.

Totally spot on. The Knicks don’t have the wherewithal to do what is right. This team is stuck in a conflict with themselves. They don’t have the fortitude to do a full on tank job and keep hanging their hat on some mythical route to the playoffs which continuously backfires in their face. No guts no glory.