Knicks · If Kanter opts out, what do you do about the front court? (page 2)

Allanfan20 wrote:I would offer both Kanter and O’Quinn very inflated 1 year deals if they both opt out.

Ummmmmmm why would Kanter opt out of his one year $18 mil deal only to sign another one year deal with us?

Questions:

1) Can Kanter get a long term deal at over $18M from any other team.
2) Can the Knicks convince Kanter that they need to see another year from him under a new coach before committing long term?

I wouldn't give Kanter a long term deal right now before seeing him perform under Fizdale. If they have to let him walk, as much as a like Kanter, we have to do what we have to do. I understand Kanter's (and KOQ's) position but it's just not in the best interest of the Knicks right now.

Welpee wrote:Questions:

1) Can Kanter get a long term deal at over $18M from any other team.
2) Can the Knicks convince Kanter that they need to see another year from him under a new coach before committing long term?

I wouldn't give Kanter a long term deal right now before seeing him perform under Fizdale. If they have to let him walk, as much as a like Kanter, we have to do what we have to do. I understand Kanter's (and KOQ's) position but it's just not in the best interest of the Knicks right now.

Kanter is a 6th man type on a contending team. His value comes from being able to produce pts and rebs at a high per min rate. He also brings some emotional infusion due to hustle plays here and there. Any contract he receives would have to be the going rate for a 20-24min 6th man who will struggle defensively but be high efficient and productive offensively. He will probably play more mins than that on the Knicks currently constructed. But Knicks gotta pay based on what his role would be on a contender. As well as are they able to find another player for cheaper who can play that 20-24min role he does and offer similar things. Or a 2-way player in his place.

Well supposedly there's multiple teams that are interested in signing him if he does opt out with the Bucks being one of the teams. Kinda surprising with Budenholtzer there now since he's such a defensive guy but as i've been saying about Kanter to all the Kanter haters, Just cause the guy isn't a good defender doesn't mean he doesn't still have plenty of value to a team cause with all the things he does do well he does them very well. His offensive game and rebounding is right there with many of the top centers in the NBA.

He is gonna opt in...he wont make what he would make this year. For us it doesnt matter since we are focused for 2019. I think he would be ah attractive trade target at the deadline

If he opts out, would you consider Noah and Lance for Hassan Whiteside? Seems the heat are desperate to get rid of him but he may have few suitors with that contract.

Allanfan20 wrote:I would offer both Kanter and O’Quinn very inflated 1 year deals if they both opt out.

I'd to genuinely ask why. I've pondered that position, as you are the 2nd in thread and one of a few over time on the board who have suggested as such. I can't see the baseline reasoning for it, but I'd like to see where others stand.

Welpee wrote:Questions:

1) Can Kanter get a long term deal at over $18M from any other team.
2) Can the Knicks convince Kanter that they need to see another year from him under a new coach before committing long term?

I wouldn't give Kanter a long term deal right now before seeing him perform under Fizdale. If they have to let him walk, as much as a like Kanter, we have to do what we have to do. I understand Kanter's (and KOQ's) position but it's just not in the best interest of the Knicks right now.

1) Given the current marketplace, No.

My best guess is his current value/approximation is 4/32 or 2/16, the second year being a team option or a player option depending on the pathway to possibly starting.

2) I don't see this issue as relevant to his situation. Kanter is outside his prime developmental window. He's "young" in real life terms, in NBA terms, he's a sunk cost. What you see is about what you are going to get. His value won't go up over time, but down. There's nothing to convince, he's replaceable. Which is why the Thunder tried to trade him for a long time and could not and that there were not a line of teams waiting to trade for him.

I try to stay out of players personal lives for the most part, but Kanters private life is complicated. His issues with his homeland is complicated. Proximity to the United Nations is in his favor. It's something no one really wants to talk about. He needs to be in NY more than that Knicks need him. His personal situations are unfortunate. On a human level, you wish him only the best. From a team perspective and from a resource management perspective, if he opts out, thank the basketball Gods for small miracles and wish him well in his NBA future far from the Knicks.

Was he the Knicks best player last year? Yes, by a good country mile as well.

But that's more of a sign of the injury situation and the talent situation than Kanter just being something irreplaceable.

There are going to be a lot of servicable big men this offseason who will begrudgingly take a one year deal for not that much to stay on an NBA roster/get another year of service time towards their pension.

Kornet is staying. I guess it would depend on how far along he is. If Kornet played well enough to earn a few months tryout as a starter/stopgap they could wait until the first trade deadline to possibly make a move.

Perry/Mills are trying for as much cap space as they can for 2019. If they can get away with not handing out any more deals than they have to this upcoming season, Im sure they'll be happy.

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Enes Kanter denies report that says he is expected to opt out. He tells @TaylorRooks he has not made a decision yet, joking he will on the “the last minute, the last day, the last second.”

TripleThreat wrote:

Welpee wrote:Questions:

1) Can Kanter get a long term deal at over $18M from any other team.
2) Can the Knicks convince Kanter that they need to see another year from him under a new coach before committing long term?

I wouldn't give Kanter a long term deal right now before seeing him perform under Fizdale. If they have to let him walk, as much as a like Kanter, we have to do what we have to do. I understand Kanter's (and KOQ's) position but it's just not in the best interest of the Knicks right now.

1) Given the current marketplace, No.

My best guess is his current value/approximation is 4/32 or 2/16, the second year being a team option or a player option depending on the pathway to possibly starting.

2) I don't see this issue as relevant to his situation. Kanter is outside his prime developmental window. He's "young" in real life terms, in NBA terms, he's a sunk cost.

The issue isn't Kanter's continued development, rather his fit in whatever system Fizdale runs.

Welpee wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Welpee wrote:Questions:

1) Can Kanter get a long term deal at over $18M from any other team.
2) Can the Knicks convince Kanter that they need to see another year from him under a new coach before committing long term?

I wouldn't give Kanter a long term deal right now before seeing him perform under Fizdale. If they have to let him walk, as much as a like Kanter, we have to do what we have to do. I understand Kanter's (and KOQ's) position but it's just not in the best interest of the Knicks right now.

1) Given the current marketplace, No.

My best guess is his current value/approximation is 4/32 or 2/16, the second year being a team option or a player option depending on the pathway to possibly starting.

2) I don't see this issue as relevant to his situation. Kanter is outside his prime developmental window. He's "young" in real life terms, in NBA terms, he's a sunk cost.

The issue isn't Kanter's continued development, rather his fit in whatever system Fizdale runs.

Kanter is going to opt in, rain threes and increase his market value. Wait and see.

reub wrote:

Welpee wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Welpee wrote:Questions:

1) Can Kanter get a long term deal at over $18M from any other team.
2) Can the Knicks convince Kanter that they need to see another year from him under a new coach before committing long term?

I wouldn't give Kanter a long term deal right now before seeing him perform under Fizdale. If they have to let him walk, as much as a like Kanter, we have to do what we have to do. I understand Kanter's (and KOQ's) position but it's just not in the best interest of the Knicks right now.

1) Given the current marketplace, No.

My best guess is his current value/approximation is 4/32 or 2/16, the second year being a team option or a player option depending on the pathway to possibly starting.

2) I don't see this issue as relevant to his situation. Kanter is outside his prime developmental window. He's "young" in real life terms, in NBA terms, he's a sunk cost.

The issue isn't Kanter's continued development, rather his fit in whatever system Fizdale runs.

Kanter is going to opt in, rain threes and increase his market value. Wait and see.

thats what i feel as well

Welpee wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Welpee wrote:Questions:

1) Can Kanter get a long term deal at over $18M from any other team.
2) Can the Knicks convince Kanter that they need to see another year from him under a new coach before committing long term?

I wouldn't give Kanter a long term deal right now before seeing him perform under Fizdale. If they have to let him walk, as much as a like Kanter, we have to do what we have to do. I understand Kanter's (and KOQ's) position but it's just not in the best interest of the Knicks right now.

1) Given the current marketplace, No.

My best guess is his current value/approximation is 4/32 or 2/16, the second year being a team option or a player option depending on the pathway to possibly starting.

2) I don't see this issue as relevant to his situation. Kanter is outside his prime developmental window. He's "young" in real life terms, in NBA terms, he's a sunk cost.

The issue isn't Kanter's continued development, rather his fit in whatever system Fizdale runs.

You don't seem to get it.

The "issue" is that in ANY MODERN BASKETBALL SYSTEM, Enes Kanter is a liability.

He cannot space the floor. I keep hearing he is working on a three point shot. We'll all believe it when we see it CONSISTENTLY. He cannot defend the rim. He cannot run a basic defense. He's a low IQ player who gives good energy/burst but he's in a contract year. He's dogged it before when he's be paid before. He is still a total blackhole with the ball in his hands ( he's not a good passer, he's not even a willing passer, I doubt he can really read the floor well enough to pass safely) He is a complete sieve against the basic pick and roll.

Fizdale could run anything. Nellieball. SSOL. Princeton. Four Out. Triangle. Showtime. Literally anything. And Kanter would falter in all of it. In the modern "space and pace" game, he's obsolete.

Why would the Knicks need to "convince" him of anything?

He's asking for a long term contract in the press and pretending he's thinking about opting out because he has zero leverage. He has zero leverage because he's obsolete in the modern game. Due to injury and attrition and a massive talent deficit, he became the primary option on a team willing to overlook his flaws because they could get no one else/had no one else. It's like nailing a Jenny Craig toothless landwhale reject with herpes because she's the only warm wet hole stuck with you on an isolated desert island.

Its a "Smurf Party" and in a gaggle of sausage, Kanter is the only warm wet hole and some posters here are go apesh*t over basically having a warm healthy player who actually tries most of the time.

He has no real trade value. He has no real long term value to this franchise. He's eating up a roster spot and minutes because he was the only practical salary match to rid of Melo's toxic personality/contract/lack of leadership.

There is no realistic fit where Kanter becomes the player some of you claim he can be. If he was going to be that, he would have already.

If he was willing to take 4/32 and opt out, the Knicks would sign him right away.

I hope his personal situation works out. But for this team, he's a net liability.

Offer that same $ to Julius Randle. Fiz was talking highly of him on ESPN when he was commentating.
Randle & KP would be able to play off each other at the 4 & 5. Too perfect of a match. Our front court of Knox KP Randle would be a force for years to come.

If Kanter opts out we need to make an offer at 12:01 to Randle.

I agree. Randle for the same money would make a lot of sense here and a 12:01 offer sheet probably gets him given the Lakers current situation.

TLover wrote:Offer that same $ to Julius Randle. Fiz was talking highly of him on ESPN when he was commentating.
Randle & KP would be able to play off each other at the 4 & 5. Too perfect of a match. Our front court of Knox KP Randle would be a force for years to come.

If Kanter opts out we need to make an offer at 12:01 to Randle.

The problem is that would mess up 2019's cap space (presuming we target Kyrie). Maybe if we get rid of Lee you could use that money for Randle without affecting 2019's offseason. However I think PG will stay with OKC, which will mess up Lebron's plans of going to the Lakers. So likey the Lakers will re-sign Randle once they fail to land 2 max FAs.

TripleThreat wrote:

Welpee wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Welpee wrote:Questions:

1) Can Kanter get a long term deal at over $18M from any other team.
2) Can the Knicks convince Kanter that they need to see another year from him under a new coach before committing long term?

I wouldn't give Kanter a long term deal right now before seeing him perform under Fizdale. If they have to let him walk, as much as a like Kanter, we have to do what we have to do. I understand Kanter's (and KOQ's) position but it's just not in the best interest of the Knicks right now.

1) Given the current marketplace, No.

My best guess is his current value/approximation is 4/32 or 2/16, the second year being a team option or a player option depending on the pathway to possibly starting.

2) I don't see this issue as relevant to his situation. Kanter is outside his prime developmental window. He's "young" in real life terms, in NBA terms, he's a sunk cost.

The issue isn't Kanter's continued development, rather his fit in whatever system Fizdale runs.

You don't seem to get it.

The "issue" is that in ANY MODERN BASKETBALL SYSTEM, Enes Kanter is a liability.

He cannot space the floor. I keep hearing he is working on a three point shot. We'll all believe it when we see it CONSISTENTLY. He cannot defend the rim. He cannot run a basic defense. He's a low IQ player who gives good energy/burst but he's in a contract year. He's dogged it before when he's be paid before. He is still a total blackhole with the ball in his hands ( he's not a good passer, he's not even a willing passer, I doubt he can really read the floor well enough to pass safely) He is a complete sieve against the basic pick and roll.

Fizdale could run anything. Nellieball. SSOL. Princeton. Four Out. Triangle. Showtime. Literally anything. And Kanter would falter in all of it. In the modern "space and pace" game, he's obsolete.

Why would the Knicks need to "convince" him of anything?

He's asking for a long term contract in the press and pretending he's thinking about opting out because he has zero leverage. He has zero leverage because he's obsolete in the modern game. Due to injury and attrition and a massive talent deficit, he became the primary option on a team willing to overlook his flaws because they could get no one else/had no one else. It's like nailing a Jenny Craig toothless landwhale reject with herpes because she's the only warm wet hole stuck with you on an isolated desert island.

Its a "Smurf Party" and in a gaggle of sausage, Kanter is the only warm wet hole and some posters here are go apesh*t over basically having a warm healthy player who actually tries most of the time.

He has no real trade value. He has no real long term value to this franchise. He's eating up a roster spot and minutes because he was the only practical salary match to rid of Melo's toxic personality/contract/lack of leadership.

There is no realistic fit where Kanter becomes the player some of you claim he can be. If he was going to be that, he would have already.

If he was willing to take 4/32 and opt out, the Knicks would sign him right away.

I hope his personal situation works out. But for this team, he's a net liability.

This is a bit off the Kanter topic, but the "modern NBA system" equals what ever system the best team is using to win championships at a particular time. The minute somebody wins utilizing bigs guess what becomes the new "modern NBA system?" There are various ways to win and just because small ball is en vogue right now doesn't mean everybody has to play that way. Nobody is going to assemble what Golden State put together. Once GSW's reign runs its course there will be a new "modern NBA system." Anybody who has been around a while understands this is cyclical.

smackeddog wrote:

TLover wrote:Offer that same $ to Julius Randle. Fiz was talking highly of him on ESPN when he was commentating.
Randle & KP would be able to play off each other at the 4 & 5. Too perfect of a match. Our front court of Knox KP Randle would be a force for years to come.

If Kanter opts out we need to make an offer at 12:01 to Randle.

The problem is that would mess up 2019's cap space (presuming we target Kyrie). Maybe if we get rid of Lee you could use that money for Randle without affecting 2019's offseason. However I think PG will stay with OKC, which will mess up Lebron's plans of going to the Lakers. So likey the Lakers will re-sign Randle once they fail to land 2 max FAs.

This is why we must make that offer at 12:01 bc the Lakers will need that cap space for their plan of a super team (which I’m not a fan of) would rather add one super player to a core that was developed within. We can always make trades and stretch Noah for 1 max next season.

TLover wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

TLover wrote:Offer that same $ to Julius Randle. Fiz was talking highly of him on ESPN when he was commentating.
Randle & KP would be able to play off each other at the 4 & 5. Too perfect of a match. Our front court of Knox KP Randle would be a force for years to come.

If Kanter opts out we need to make an offer at 12:01 to Randle.

The problem is that would mess up 2019's cap space (presuming we target Kyrie). Maybe if we get rid of Lee you could use that money for Randle without affecting 2019's offseason. However I think PG will stay with OKC, which will mess up Lebron's plans of going to the Lakers. So likey the Lakers will re-sign Randle once they fail to land 2 max FAs.

This is why we must make that offer at 12:01 bc the Lakers will need that cap space for their plan of a super team (which I’m not a fan of) would rather add one super player to a core that was developed within. We can always make trades and stretch Noah for 1 max next season.

You can but need to be comfortable that you are out of the free agent market in 2019 and probably 2020.

reub wrote:

Welpee wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Welpee wrote:Questions:

1) Can Kanter get a long term deal at over $18M from any other team.
2) Can the Knicks convince Kanter that they need to see another year from him under a new coach before committing long term?

I wouldn't give Kanter a long term deal right now before seeing him perform under Fizdale. If they have to let him walk, as much as a like Kanter, we have to do what we have to do. I understand Kanter's (and KOQ's) position but it's just not in the best interest of the Knicks right now.

1) Given the current marketplace, No.

My best guess is his current value/approximation is 4/32 or 2/16, the second year being a team option or a player option depending on the pathway to possibly starting.

2) I don't see this issue as relevant to his situation. Kanter is outside his prime developmental window. He's "young" in real life terms, in NBA terms, he's a sunk cost.

The issue isn't Kanter's continued development, rather his fit in whatever system Fizdale runs.

Kanter is going to opt in, rain threes and increase his market value. Wait and see.

You say that likes it's far fetched or something. He's obviously been putting in plenty of practice at shooting 3's which he's been posting all the videos of and is something Fiz lets and tells his big men do, although i do think there's a chance he opts out, i still don't see him doing it and it's a contract year so he's gonna kill it next year. I really don't care either way if he opts in or out cause it's not gonna hurt us next season either way.