Off Topic · OT - Trump & Russia (page 15)

Trump actually has done about the only thing he could do. He knows he broke the law (whether it be tax fraud, campaign finance fraud, or collusion with a foreign power against the interests of the US regarding its elections). So he figures his only chance is to use his pied piper-like power over his mindless drones to convince them that the whole thing is a witch hunt and rigged. He believes if he can win the fight in the public, it might help him in court. I don't think he has gone about it in the smartest way, but I understand the strategy. The problem for him is that he has pissed so many people off that this thing is as unstoppable train headed right for him. I see Trump going to jail within the next 3 years and America will be better for it.

TheGame wrote:Trump actually has done about the only thing he could do. He knows he broke the law (whether it be tax fraud, campaign finance fraud, or collusion with a foreign power against the interests of the US regarding its elections). So he figures his only chance is to use his pied piper-like power over his mindless drones to convince them that the whole thing is a witch hunt and rigged. He believes if he can win the fight in the public, it might help him in court. I don't think he has gone about it in the smartest way, but I understand the strategy. The problem for him is that he has pissed so many people off that this thing is as unstoppable train headed right for him. I see Trump going to jail within the next 3 years and America will be better for it.

Yea IMO Trump is cooked. But I don't want this to just be about Trump. When he goes down I want him to drag a ton of people with him regardless of party. I want Anti corruption policies to be at the head of anyone looking to run going forward. I want the people in congress who aren't willing to make those sacrifices of personal gain for a better American voted out.

https://www.vox.com/2018/8/21/17765058/e...

What’s in the Anti-Corruption and Public Integrity Act

The Anti-Corruption and Public Integrity Act is a wide-ranging bill that focuses on getting money and lobbying out of politics in all three branches: executive, legislative, and judicial. There’s a lot in the proposal, but here are the key parts:

A lifetime ban on lobbying for presidents, vice presidents, members of Congress, federal judges, and Cabinet secretaries.

Multi-year lobbying bans for federal employees (both Congressional staffers and employees of federal agencies). The span of time would be least two years, and six years for corporate lobbyists.

Requiring the president and vice president to place assets that could present a conflict of interest — including real estate — in a blind trust and sell them off.

Requiring the IRS to release eight years’ worth of tax returns for all presidential and vice presidential candidates, as well as requiring them to release tax returns during each year in office. The IRS would also have to release two years’ worth of tax returns for members of Congress, and require them to release tax returns for each lawmaker’s year in office.

Banning members of Congress, Cabinet secretaries, federal judges, White House staff, senior congressional staff, and other officials from owning individual stocks while in office.

Changing the rulemaking process of federal agencies to severely restrict the ability of corporations or industry to delay or influence rulemaking.

Creating a new independent US Office of Public Integrity, which would enforce the nation’s ethics laws
, and investigate any potential violations. The office would also try to strengthen open records laws, making records more easily accessible to the public and the press.

meloshouldgo wrote:

NotInMyHouse wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

NotInMyHouse wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

NotInMyHouse wrote:Been an interesting thread to read through. I am not really strong politically but this is certainly an interesting time.
I notice this thread is very Anti-Trump but when I speak with most people, I see more division, a bit like the vote. I wonder if the Trump bashing makes the supporters just lay low?
For example, I just went to Amazon, here is the best seller list - top 3.

There's nothing to prevent the clinically stupid from supporting and propagating their alternate reality bullshit. I talk to Trump supporters and with neoliberals that have wet dreams about free markets on multiple forums including a couple of facebook forums based on investment groups. Almost all of them literally recite the same garbage without adding a single original thought. If they get bashed they definitely deserve it. If you have anything to add let's hear it.

I don't see the point in speaking with so much hate about an issue that affects everyone. It just keeps the other side from expressing their opinions. In general, that is a part of how Trump won. His supporters were attacked and so laid low. Do what you want, but I see it as being not helpful to your cause, no matter the side. Country needs to come together, not be further divided.

Re having anything to add, I'm not up to speed on all of what has happened. Will try to follow the news more, from a variety of sources of course.

His supporters were attacked? They are doing most of the attacking, not sure where you get your data from. Anything that doesn't fit their alternate reality becomes a left wing conspiracy. If they can win with that level of hate why can't we? Why do we need to entertain their batshit positions and politics when they can't even get any information not being postedon fox and Breitbart? Who the fukk said we need to engage them to win elections? To hale with this centrist moderation hype, I am done with this.

I will eagerly await any thing substantive you come up with, then we can discuss.

Looking at poll numbers, Black support for Trump, has gone from what he won with at 8% in 2016, to 17% in 2017, to now 36% in 2018. Even if these Rasmussen numbers are 6% or 10% off, these numbers are still huge. (Blacks make up 12.6% of population. Wiki) And it is very interesting this happens right after the Omarosa leak and accusation. And it wasn’t that long ago that the border family separations were heavy in the news. (Not making light of this, rather support is growing though despite it.)

Hispanic support was at 29% or so during the election. Recently there was a 10 point spike. Hispanics (and Latin Americans) made up around 17.8% of the population in 2016 (Wiki). https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_e...

Taking these numbers together, not to mention growing approval over last year, we are talking 10’s of millions of new voters for Trump in 2020 (not to mention mid terms later this year.)

Couple the growing support with great economic numbers, tax cuts, denuclearization proceeding in N. Korea, GDP growth at 4.3%, huge labor participation / very low unemployment, illegal immigration down tremendously (very important for voters), etc. and I don’t see Trump going anywhere soon or in 2020. I understand you can argue any of these points, but the poll numbers are up for a reason.

As I said earlier in the thread, this thread does not appear representative of the average feelings of Americans. Hard to say this in a friendly way, but it doesn’t appear that differing opinions are welcome in this thread. Is it really necessary to cuss and speak down at someone to get your point across? I will keep my interactions here to a minimum. I much prefer to talk about basketball and can not wait for pre season to start.

Look man, I wasn't cussing at you - I was just venting my frustration at people who discuss poilitics without any actual information to back up what they are saying. If you are Trump supporter and want to talk with actual data I will welcome you with open arms.

And yes I see the black support for Trump is at a all tme high and Hispanics seem to be increasing too. No argument on either of those things. That however does not in anyway mean that what he is doing is working or will benefit the country or the people in any way shape or form. Like I said a populist winning a popularity vote suddenly doesn't become "right" about everything. So let's just stay away from poll numbers which rise and fall with the tide.

I don't actually see great economic numbers do you? I see low unemployment and high underemployment. I see low wages and increasing price of goods. I see war being waged on civil liberties, I see a rise in right wing hate being paraded as white nationalism. So excuse me for not sharing your rah rah optimism here. But I am willing to listen - show me what great economic numbers you are seeing. Let's start with that.

I understand you on the cussing and the frustration is everywhere. Imagine how this thread feels to a Trump supporter. Speaking of, I was a Bernie supporter, not Trump supporter, but I have started to look closer when I read up about Trump. I am not very emotionally vested here. More just a contrarian approach re this thread.

The economic numbers look pretty healthy, continued high GDP, low unemployment, etc. but with our huge and growing debt, I’m not sure it is going to help. I won’t argue with you on the long term here.

I do worry about the social media censorship but I don’t see hate or violence in the form of White supremacy, not on the street and not with me or any of my friends (some of which are Trump supporters.) I do see continued Antifa violence but that is getting more under control, but MSM certainly gave them a pass for a long time. I don’t remember MSM attacking Democrats when an anti-Trump guy shot up a baseball field full of congressman, or when they kidnapped a Trump supporter and tortured him for 2 days and put it on Facebook. Neither here nor there, stupidity is on both sides.

There are two main areas I am interested in and trying to learn more about:

1. The FISA applications and surveillance on Trump has my attention. Releasing the un-redacted version of those 20 pages of the FISA applications should open a lot up.

2. The Russian Dossier and how it was created. Some related areas here are: evidence re collusion with Russia, Michael Cohens lawyer’s statements re him never being to Prague (i.e. conflicts with Russian Dossier because it is the wrong Michael Cohen), to the Trump Tower meeting (e.g. Loretta Lynch letting in Natalia Veselnitskaya after her Visa was denied.), Both Ohr’s connections to dossier, and all the way to Steele’s assembly of the Dossier. I have a lot of questions and am still coming up to speed here. Not ready to debate this, just digging.

I am interested to see what the above amounts to in the next few months.

NotInMyHouse wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

NotInMyHouse wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

NotInMyHouse wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

NotInMyHouse wrote:Been an interesting thread to read through. I am not really strong politically but this is certainly an interesting time.
I notice this thread is very Anti-Trump but when I speak with most people, I see more division, a bit like the vote. I wonder if the Trump bashing makes the supporters just lay low?
For example, I just went to Amazon, here is the best seller list - top 3.

There's nothing to prevent the clinically stupid from supporting and propagating their alternate reality bullshit. I talk to Trump supporters and with neoliberals that have wet dreams about free markets on multiple forums including a couple of facebook forums based on investment groups. Almost all of them literally recite the same garbage without adding a single original thought. If they get bashed they definitely deserve it. If you have anything to add let's hear it.

I don't see the point in speaking with so much hate about an issue that affects everyone. It just keeps the other side from expressing their opinions. In general, that is a part of how Trump won. His supporters were attacked and so laid low. Do what you want, but I see it as being not helpful to your cause, no matter the side. Country needs to come together, not be further divided.

Re having anything to add, I'm not up to speed on all of what has happened. Will try to follow the news more, from a variety of sources of course.

His supporters were attacked? They are doing most of the attacking, not sure where you get your data from. Anything that doesn't fit their alternate reality becomes a left wing conspiracy. If they can win with that level of hate why can't we? Why do we need to entertain their batshit positions and politics when they can't even get any information not being postedon fox and Breitbart? Who the fukk said we need to engage them to win elections? To hale with this centrist moderation hype, I am done with this.

I will eagerly await any thing substantive you come up with, then we can discuss.

Looking at poll numbers, Black support for Trump, has gone from what he won with at 8% in 2016, to 17% in 2017, to now 36% in 2018. Even if these Rasmussen numbers are 6% or 10% off, these numbers are still huge. (Blacks make up 12.6% of population. Wiki) And it is very interesting this happens right after the Omarosa leak and accusation. And it wasn’t that long ago that the border family separations were heavy in the news. (Not making light of this, rather support is growing though despite it.)

Hispanic support was at 29% or so during the election. Recently there was a 10 point spike. Hispanics (and Latin Americans) made up around 17.8% of the population in 2016 (Wiki). https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_e...

Taking these numbers together, not to mention growing approval over last year, we are talking 10’s of millions of new voters for Trump in 2020 (not to mention mid terms later this year.)

Couple the growing support with great economic numbers, tax cuts, denuclearization proceeding in N. Korea, GDP growth at 4.3%, huge labor participation / very low unemployment, illegal immigration down tremendously (very important for voters), etc. and I don’t see Trump going anywhere soon or in 2020. I understand you can argue any of these points, but the poll numbers are up for a reason.

As I said earlier in the thread, this thread does not appear representative of the average feelings of Americans. Hard to say this in a friendly way, but it doesn’t appear that differing opinions are welcome in this thread. Is it really necessary to cuss and speak down at someone to get your point across? I will keep my interactions here to a minimum. I much prefer to talk about basketball and can not wait for pre season to start.

Look man, I wasn't cussing at you - I was just venting my frustration at people who discuss poilitics without any actual information to back up what they are saying. If you are Trump supporter and want to talk with actual data I will welcome you with open arms.

And yes I see the black support for Trump is at a all tme high and Hispanics seem to be increasing too. No argument on either of those things. That however does not in anyway mean that what he is doing is working or will benefit the country or the people in any way shape or form. Like I said a populist winning a popularity vote suddenly doesn't become "right" about everything. So let's just stay away from poll numbers which rise and fall with the tide.

I don't actually see great economic numbers do you? I see low unemployment and high underemployment. I see low wages and increasing price of goods. I see war being waged on civil liberties, I see a rise in right wing hate being paraded as white nationalism. So excuse me for not sharing your rah rah optimism here. But I am willing to listen - show me what great economic numbers you are seeing. Let's start with that.

I understand you on the cussing and the frustration is everywhere. Imagine how this thread feels to a Trump supporter. Speaking of, I was a Bernie supporter, not Trump supporter, but I have started to look closer when I read up about Trump. I am not very emotionally vested here. More just a contrarian approach re this thread.

The economic numbers look pretty healthy, continued high GDP, low unemployment, etc. but with our huge and growing debt, I’m not sure it is going to help. I won’t argue with you on the long term here.

I do worry about the social media censorship but I don’t see hate or violence in the form of White supremacy, not on the street and not with me or any of my friends (some of which are Trump supporters.) I do see continued Antifa violence but that is getting more under control, but MSM certainly gave them a pass for a long time. I don’t remember MSM attacking Democrats when an anti-Trump guy shot up a baseball field full of congressman, or when they kidnapped a Trump supporter and tortured him for 2 days and put it on Facebook. Neither here nor there, stupidity is on both sides.

There are two main areas I am interested in and trying to learn more about:

1. The FISA applications and surveillance on Trump has my attention. Releasing the un-redacted version of those 20 pages of the FISA applications should open a lot up.

2. The Russian Dossier and how it was created. Some related areas here are: evidence re collusion with Russia, Michael Cohens lawyer’s statements re him never being to Prague (i.e. conflicts with Russian Dossier because it is the wrong Michael Cohen), to the Trump Tower meeting (e.g. Loretta Lynch letting in Natalia Veselnitskaya after her Visa was denied.), Both Ohr’s connections to dossier, and all the way to Steele’s assembly of the Dossier. I have a lot of questions and am still coming up to speed here. Not ready to debate this, just digging.

I am interested to see what the above amounts to in the next few months.

There is no way 36% of black people support Trump. There might be 36% that support what has happened with the economy, which really was only the result of Republicans stopping their complaining that the encomony was failing. Consumer confidence is about perception and when you don't have republicans crying about the economy, the perception improves. Compare job growth between obama and trump and there is little difference. Now the tax cuts helped because corporations kept more money, which is why the market grew as much as it did in Trump's first 18 months. But at what costs. Trump is running up budget deficits greater than anything Obama did and the republicans are not saying a word. The whole thing is going to come crashing down and guess who will pay for it. The poor and middle class. Your social security and Medicare are going to get cut. While Trump and the Rich who are the only ones who really benefit from Trumps policies, will only get richer.

JesseDark wrote:Trump knows all the dirty shady things he has in his background, which for the life of me I can't understand why he ran for the office in the first place.

He didn’t expect to actually win and was more poised to launch a tv network

Brilliant yet alarming.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Brilliant yet alarming.

Definitely worth watching.

Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/cnn/status/1033511899353296897?s=21

Click here to view the Tweet

newyorknewyork wrote:

Brilliant yet alarming.

The idea of lowering the trade deficits is not bad. The use of traiffs to do that is preposterous.
Also we're are now more of a service economy so should expect to have a trade deficit. Saying we won't have one and making or own population pay more for stuff we don't even make here is beyond stupid, it's truly Trump.

NotInMyHouse wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

NotInMyHouse wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

NotInMyHouse wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

NotInMyHouse wrote:Been an interesting thread to read through. I am not really strong politically but this is certainly an interesting time.
I notice this thread is very Anti-Trump but when I speak with most people, I see more division, a bit like the vote. I wonder if the Trump bashing makes the supporters just lay low?
For example, I just went to Amazon, here is the best seller list - top 3.

There's nothing to prevent the clinically stupid from supporting and propagating their alternate reality bullshit. I talk to Trump supporters and with neoliberals that have wet dreams about free markets on multiple forums including a couple of facebook forums based on investment groups. Almost all of them literally recite the same garbage without adding a single original thought. If they get bashed they definitely deserve it. If you have anything to add let's hear it.

I don't see the point in speaking with so much hate about an issue that affects everyone. It just keeps the other side from expressing their opinions. In general, that is a part of how Trump won. His supporters were attacked and so laid low. Do what you want, but I see it as being not helpful to your cause, no matter the side. Country needs to come together, not be further divided.

Re having anything to add, I'm not up to speed on all of what has happened. Will try to follow the news more, from a variety of sources of course.

His supporters were attacked? They are doing most of the attacking, not sure where you get your data from. Anything that doesn't fit their alternate reality becomes a left wing conspiracy. If they can win with that level of hate why can't we? Why do we need to entertain their batshit positions and politics when they can't even get any information not being postedon fox and Breitbart? Who the fukk said we need to engage them to win elections? To hale with this centrist moderation hype, I am done with this.

I will eagerly await any thing substantive you come up with, then we can discuss.

Looking at poll numbers, Black support for Trump, has gone from what he won with at 8% in 2016, to 17% in 2017, to now 36% in 2018. Even if these Rasmussen numbers are 6% or 10% off, these numbers are still huge. (Blacks make up 12.6% of population. Wiki) And it is very interesting this happens right after the Omarosa leak and accusation. And it wasn’t that long ago that the border family separations were heavy in the news. (Not making light of this, rather support is growing though despite it.)

Hispanic support was at 29% or so during the election. Recently there was a 10 point spike. Hispanics (and Latin Americans) made up around 17.8% of the population in 2016 (Wiki). https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_e...

Taking these numbers together, not to mention growing approval over last year, we are talking 10’s of millions of new voters for Trump in 2020 (not to mention mid terms later this year.)

Couple the growing support with great economic numbers, tax cuts, denuclearization proceeding in N. Korea, GDP growth at 4.3%, huge labor participation / very low unemployment, illegal immigration down tremendously (very important for voters), etc. and I don’t see Trump going anywhere soon or in 2020. I understand you can argue any of these points, but the poll numbers are up for a reason.

As I said earlier in the thread, this thread does not appear representative of the average feelings of Americans. Hard to say this in a friendly way, but it doesn’t appear that differing opinions are welcome in this thread. Is it really necessary to cuss and speak down at someone to get your point across? I will keep my interactions here to a minimum. I much prefer to talk about basketball and can not wait for pre season to start.

Look man, I wasn't cussing at you - I was just venting my frustration at people who discuss poilitics without any actual information to back up what they are saying. If you are Trump supporter and want to talk with actual data I will welcome you with open arms.

And yes I see the black support for Trump is at a all tme high and Hispanics seem to be increasing too. No argument on either of those things. That however does not in anyway mean that what he is doing is working or will benefit the country or the people in any way shape or form. Like I said a populist winning a popularity vote suddenly doesn't become "right" about everything. So let's just stay away from poll numbers which rise and fall with the tide.

I don't actually see great economic numbers do you? I see low unemployment and high underemployment. I see low wages and increasing price of goods. I see war being waged on civil liberties, I see a rise in right wing hate being paraded as white nationalism. So excuse me for not sharing your rah rah optimism here. But I am willing to listen - show me what great economic numbers you are seeing. Let's start with that.

I understand you on the cussing and the frustration is everywhere. Imagine how this thread feels to a Trump supporter. Speaking of, I was a Bernie supporter, not Trump supporter, but I have started to look closer when I read up about Trump. I am not very emotionally vested here. More just a contrarian approach re this thread.

The economic numbers look pretty healthy, continued high GDP, low unemployment, etc. but with our huge and growing debt, I’m not sure it is going to help. I won’t argue with you on the long term here.

I do worry about the social media censorship but I don’t see hate or violence in the form of White supremacy, not on the street and not with me or any of my friends (some of which are Trump supporters.) I do see continued Antifa violence but that is getting more under control, but MSM certainly gave them a pass for a long time. I don’t remember MSM attacking Democrats when an anti-Trump guy shot up a baseball field full of congressman, or when they kidnapped a Trump supporter and tortured him for 2 days and put it on Facebook. Neither here nor there, stupidity is on both sides.

There are two main areas I am interested in and trying to learn more about:

1. The FISA applications and surveillance on Trump has my attention. Releasing the un-redacted version of those 20 pages of the FISA applications should open a lot up.

2. The Russian Dossier and how it was created. Some related areas here are: evidence re collusion with Russia, Michael Cohens lawyer’s statements re him never being to Prague (i.e. conflicts with Russian Dossier because it is the wrong Michael Cohen), to the Trump Tower meeting (e.g. Loretta Lynch letting in Natalia Veselnitskaya after her Visa was denied.), Both Ohr’s connections to dossier, and all the way to Steele’s assembly of the Dossier. I have a lot of questions and am still coming up to speed here. Not ready to debate this, just digging.

I am interested to see what the above amounts to in the next few months.

Thanks for sharing and good to know. I would caution against concluding the economy is doing well based on GDP growth and unemployment. Like you said already, it takes more digging. I am a Bernie supporter as well. But I'll never root for mainstream Democrats, they are basically the Rockefeller Republicans.

meloshouldgo wrote:

NotInMyHouse wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

NotInMyHouse wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

NotInMyHouse wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:

NotInMyHouse wrote:Been an interesting thread to read through. I am not really strong politically but this is certainly an interesting time.
I notice this thread is very Anti-Trump but when I speak with most people, I see more division, a bit like the vote. I wonder if the Trump bashing makes the supporters just lay low?
For example, I just went to Amazon, here is the best seller list - top 3.

There's nothing to prevent the clinically stupid from supporting and propagating their alternate reality bullshit. I talk to Trump supporters and with neoliberals that have wet dreams about free markets on multiple forums including a couple of facebook forums based on investment groups. Almost all of them literally recite the same garbage without adding a single original thought. If they get bashed they definitely deserve it. If you have anything to add let's hear it.

I don't see the point in speaking with so much hate about an issue that affects everyone. It just keeps the other side from expressing their opinions. In general, that is a part of how Trump won. His supporters were attacked and so laid low. Do what you want, but I see it as being not helpful to your cause, no matter the side. Country needs to come together, not be further divided.

Re having anything to add, I'm not up to speed on all of what has happened. Will try to follow the news more, from a variety of sources of course.

His supporters were attacked? They are doing most of the attacking, not sure where you get your data from. Anything that doesn't fit their alternate reality becomes a left wing conspiracy. If they can win with that level of hate why can't we? Why do we need to entertain their batshit positions and politics when they can't even get any information not being postedon fox and Breitbart? Who the fukk said we need to engage them to win elections? To hale with this centrist moderation hype, I am done with this.

I will eagerly await any thing substantive you come up with, then we can discuss.

Looking at poll numbers, Black support for Trump, has gone from what he won with at 8% in 2016, to 17% in 2017, to now 36% in 2018. Even if these Rasmussen numbers are 6% or 10% off, these numbers are still huge. (Blacks make up 12.6% of population. Wiki) And it is very interesting this happens right after the Omarosa leak and accusation. And it wasn’t that long ago that the border family separations were heavy in the news. (Not making light of this, rather support is growing though despite it.)

Hispanic support was at 29% or so during the election. Recently there was a 10 point spike. Hispanics (and Latin Americans) made up around 17.8% of the population in 2016 (Wiki). https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_e...

Taking these numbers together, not to mention growing approval over last year, we are talking 10’s of millions of new voters for Trump in 2020 (not to mention mid terms later this year.)

Couple the growing support with great economic numbers, tax cuts, denuclearization proceeding in N. Korea, GDP growth at 4.3%, huge labor participation / very low unemployment, illegal immigration down tremendously (very important for voters), etc. and I don’t see Trump going anywhere soon or in 2020. I understand you can argue any of these points, but the poll numbers are up for a reason.

As I said earlier in the thread, this thread does not appear representative of the average feelings of Americans. Hard to say this in a friendly way, but it doesn’t appear that differing opinions are welcome in this thread. Is it really necessary to cuss and speak down at someone to get your point across? I will keep my interactions here to a minimum. I much prefer to talk about basketball and can not wait for pre season to start.

Look man, I wasn't cussing at you - I was just venting my frustration at people who discuss poilitics without any actual information to back up what they are saying. If you are Trump supporter and want to talk with actual data I will welcome you with open arms.

And yes I see the black support for Trump is at a all tme high and Hispanics seem to be increasing too. No argument on either of those things. That however does not in anyway mean that what he is doing is working or will benefit the country or the people in any way shape or form. Like I said a populist winning a popularity vote suddenly doesn't become "right" about everything. So let's just stay away from poll numbers which rise and fall with the tide.

I don't actually see great economic numbers do you? I see low unemployment and high underemployment. I see low wages and increasing price of goods. I see war being waged on civil liberties, I see a rise in right wing hate being paraded as white nationalism. So excuse me for not sharing your rah rah optimism here. But I am willing to listen - show me what great economic numbers you are seeing. Let's start with that.

I understand you on the cussing and the frustration is everywhere. Imagine how this thread feels to a Trump supporter. Speaking of, I was a Bernie supporter, not Trump supporter, but I have started to look closer when I read up about Trump. I am not very emotionally vested here. More just a contrarian approach re this thread.

The economic numbers look pretty healthy, continued high GDP, low unemployment, etc. but with our huge and growing debt, I’m not sure it is going to help. I won’t argue with you on the long term here.

I do worry about the social media censorship but I don’t see hate or violence in the form of White supremacy, not on the street and not with me or any of my friends (some of which are Trump supporters.) I do see continued Antifa violence but that is getting more under control, but MSM certainly gave them a pass for a long time. I don’t remember MSM attacking Democrats when an anti-Trump guy shot up a baseball field full of congressman, or when they kidnapped a Trump supporter and tortured him for 2 days and put it on Facebook. Neither here nor there, stupidity is on both sides.

There are two main areas I am interested in and trying to learn more about:

1. The FISA applications and surveillance on Trump has my attention. Releasing the un-redacted version of those 20 pages of the FISA applications should open a lot up.

2. The Russian Dossier and how it was created. Some related areas here are: evidence re collusion with Russia, Michael Cohens lawyer’s statements re him never being to Prague (i.e. conflicts with Russian Dossier because it is the wrong Michael Cohen), to the Trump Tower meeting (e.g. Loretta Lynch letting in Natalia Veselnitskaya after her Visa was denied.), Both Ohr’s connections to dossier, and all the way to Steele’s assembly of the Dossier. I have a lot of questions and am still coming up to speed here. Not ready to debate this, just digging.

I am interested to see what the above amounts to in the next few months.

Thanks for sharing and good to know. I would caution against concluding the economy is doing well based on GDP growth and unemployment. Like you said already, it takes more digging. I am a Bernie supporter as well. But I'll never root for mainstream Democrats, they are basically the Rockefeller Republicans.

Bernie and Trump are two sides of the same coin.
Attempting to bend the laws of society to the left or to the right.
It is hard to flip America to the left so it flips to the right.
So after every Bernie you will get another Trump.
In any case the current political system is outdated.
Power should belong to those who create wealth not to those who distribute or protect it.
And as Human civilization is evolving this is happening.
The only sustainable wealth creation always was from innovations and power should belong to those who are behind them.

another radical white terrorist in jacksonville.

maybe this time the republicans and nra prayers will put an end to this.

Triple,

I enjoyed your depiction of marriage equating to slavery and the conspiracy that propagates the institution. Maybe a certain type of man will find likewise type of women? A nasty man will attract a nasty women?
For sure the institution of marriage is not for everyone. Nobody put a pussy gun to my head and entrapped me. My kids are out of the house, and really nice house I enjoy my life in. It’s not a cage. We are very fortunate to have been and remain economically viable in this economy. She too has been a good earner and contributed. She has equity in what we own and the self respect that We have worked very hard for what we have including our marriage. At the end of the day we are very much friends too. Over the years that has all grown into something more than I expected. It’s not just the future we look forward to as we get older but celebrate our shared history. It’s very gratifying. Sex? Yeah, that still happens and my wife “understands my needs” as hers might not always be aligned with mine. Gentleman don’t brag but smile. I’m smiling.

Nalod wrote:Triple,

I enjoyed your depiction of marriage equating to slavery and the conspiracy that propagates the institution. Maybe a certain type of man will find likewise type of women? A nasty man will attract a nasty women?
For sure the institution of marriage is not for everyone. Nobody put a pussy gun to my head and entrapped me. My kids are out of the house, and really nice house I enjoy my life in. It’s not a cage. We are very fortunate to have been and remain economically viable in this economy. She too has been a good earner and contributed. She has equity in what we own and the self respect that We have worked very hard for what we have including our marriage. At the end of the day we are very much friends too. Over the years that has all grown into something more than I expected. It’s not just the future we look forward to as we get older but celebrate our shared history. It’s very gratifying. Sex? Yeah, that still happens and my wife “understands my needs” as hers might not always be aligned with mine. Gentleman don’t brag but smile. I’m smiling.

He will think you just get lucky...
But in fact you will be happy with almost any woman the chance would connect you for marriage and he will be sad about almost any he will try to marry. Because this is not about she but about you.
It is natural to blame other people, government, God, society, history, or whatever for our shortcomings.
This is comforting for our Ego and small mind.
Those who can race above this 2 little buggers are the chosen once.
Chosen for peace and bliss.

I don’t remember MSM attacking Democrats when an anti-Trump guy shot up a baseball field full of congressman

i think that's bc Dems are for gun control measures and republicans take russian blood money from the NRA to ensure that Americans keep killing each other

Nalod wrote:Triple,

I enjoyed your depiction of marriage equating to slavery and the conspiracy that propagates the institution. Maybe a certain type of man will find likewise type of women? A nasty man will attract a nasty women?
For sure the institution of marriage is not for everyone. Nobody put a pussy gun to my head and entrapped me. My kids are out of the house, and really nice house I enjoy my life in. It’s not a cage. We are very fortunate to have been and remain economically viable in this economy. She too has been a good earner and contributed. She has equity in what we own and the self respect that We have worked very hard for what we have including our marriage. At the end of the day we are very much friends too. Over the years that has all grown into something more than I expected. It’s not just the future we look forward to as we get older but celebrate our shared history. It’s very gratifying. Sex? Yeah, that still happens and my wife “understands my needs” as hers might not always be aligned with mine. Gentleman don’t brag but smile. I’m smiling.

Unfortunately you are more of a throwback than the norm. My company is very focused on their intern training programs and we get new twenty somethings hired in every year. I talk to these kids quite a bit and mentor them as opportunity arises. In their voices I am hearing more and more disillusionment with marriage and or living with a partner. They are truly seeing people enslaved by debt and the cost of raising children all around them. I get the personal response to the attack on marriage and I respect your accomplishments. But attack on women notwithstanding his points were more valid than not from a economic viability POV. The American dream is a fukking hoax concocted to keep people in debt. America does have one of the highest divorce rates in the world, so all that debt people took on to provide for their families, send their kids to school ends up suffocating them and breaking their spirit.

Our country is run on vile maxim. The rich get richer everyone else ekes out an existence if they can, no one gives a sh!t if they die trying. The kids I am talking to are in their thirties now and they don't want the burden or responsibility. Times change, so does the outlook of people. The millennials view the world very differently than we did. Don't expect marriage and family to make sense to them because they made sense to you.

Nalod-

Look at those infographics and tell me Marriages are not failing us.
https://www.unifiedlawyers.com.au/blog/g...

Then there is the cost of raising a child and the cost shown here doen't even include college
https://smartasset.com/retirement/the-av...

The median net worth of households between Ages 45-54? $84,542 - The cost of raising the average child is three times the entire net worth of the median family (hald the poulation has even less net worth). You really think debt is not taking hold of married families?
https://www.thebalance.com/american-net-...

These are not signs of an affluent middle class doing well, these are signs of a stealth mode disaster that has been unfolding for the last thirty something years.

anrst wrote:

I don’t remember MSM attacking Democrats when an anti-Trump guy shot up a baseball field full of congressman

i think that's bc Dems are for gun control measures and republicans take russian blood money from the NRA to ensure that Americans keep killing each other

true dat

meloshouldgo wrote:Nalod-

Look at those infographics and tell me Marriages are not failing us.
https://www.unifiedlawyers.com.au/blog/g...

Then there is the cost of raising a child and the cost shown here doen't even include college
https://smartasset.com/retirement/the-av...

The median net worth of households between Ages 45-54? $84,542 - The cost of raising the average child is three times the entire net worth of the median family (hald the poulation has even less net worth). You really think debt is not taking hold of married families?
https://www.thebalance.com/american-net-...

These are not signs of an affluent middle class doing well, these are signs of a stealth mode disaster that has been unfolding for the last thirty something years.

We talking about Triples equating marriage to slavery. Not how expensive shyt is.
Nalod’s mother was a single white women divorced in te late 1960’s and she had no education.
I recal a bare fridge but never went hungry. Im not gonna brag about how I ascended in America.
Shyt is getting inequitable in this country and Dumb whites people are dangerous. They are voting stupid and they don’t understand if the divide keeps claiming its going to get worse.
Dumb white Americans is the problem. “Hillbilly Effigy”. Great book!
As for me, I save, invest, gave my kids a debt free education and they know they are fortunate. I am putting money now away in 529’s for 4 grand children I don’t have and won’t for years. IM plannng ahead. Education system is corrupt as hell. Devo’s is the poster women for this backwards movement.

Nalod wrote:

meloshouldgo wrote:Nalod-

Look at those infographics and tell me Marriages are not failing us.
https://www.unifiedlawyers.com.au/blog/g...

Then there is the cost of raising a child and the cost shown here doen't even include college
https://smartasset.com/retirement/the-av...

The median net worth of households between Ages 45-54? $84,542 - The cost of raising the average child is three times the entire net worth of the median family (hald the poulation has even less net worth). You really think debt is not taking hold of married families?
https://www.thebalance.com/american-net-...

These are not signs of an affluent middle class doing well, these are signs of a stealth mode disaster that has been unfolding for the last thirty something years.

We talking about Triples equating marriage to slavery. Not how expensive shyt is.
Nalod’s mother was a single white women divorced in te late 1960’s and she had no education.
I recal a bare fridge but never went hungry. Im not gonna brag about how I ascended in America.
Shyt is getting inequitable in this country and Dumb whites people are dangerous. They are voting stupid and they don’t understand if the divide keeps claiming its going to get worse.
Dumb white Americans is the problem. “Hillbilly Effigy”. Great book!
As for me, I save, invest, gave my kids a debt free education and they know they are fortunate. I am putting money now away in 529’s for 4 grand children I don’t have and won’t for years. IM plannng ahead. Education system is corrupt as hell. Devo’s is the poster women for this backwards movement.

It seems like we are in violent agreement 😀

I will try to reposition this one more time. Marriage does lead to increased responsibilities, which leads to increased debt which results in enslavement. So equating to marriage to slavery wasn't wrong, at least the data seems to support it. It "feels" wrong from a moral POV and from a personal anecdotal level. But if you dispense with the misogyny in his statements, the rest of it really is true. You are taking the marriage equals slavery thing personally and I am saying look at it from a aggregate level.