Off Topic · OT - Trump & Russia (page 4)

arkrud wrote:

Rookie wrote:

arkrud wrote:

martin wrote:

djsunyc wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Get used to it he'll be here 6 more years. Real stupid to try to get along with a country that has higher technical military ability?

that "country" just launched a major cyber TERRORIST attack that manipulated the american people and influenced an entire political party. but time to buddy up.

I think this perspective has been lost on the greater American population, don't even know if Obama and team highlighted this enough when it was first happening. No idea what was done or what is being done, doesn't feel like much at all outside of the Mueller scope of things.

Our country was attached, and not in a traditional sense where bloodshed and death are involved. And it was a terrorist attack, the last one that happened ended up with the USA hunting down and killing the head mastermind and a lot of the perpetrators.

And here is a problem.
Russia is nuclear superpower and the last empire run by coalition of secret services, criminal mafia, and corrupt bureaucrats.
Their main moniker is patriotic nationalism and hate mongering against the West and US in particular.
There is nothing we can do to stop them from doing what they doing.
We need to protect our self as much a we can and be ready for slow and painful degradation of Russian economy.
If we will force their hand many people will die for nothing.
Preventing this worth the sacrifice of some principals as it was done in USSR case.

So if Russia falls, then who controls their natural resources? Is this all about control of Russian energy? The EU and the West have been isolating Russia for decades. We meddle in local politics in neighboring countries all the while weakening Russia and isolating them from the Black Sea, Mediterranean Ocean, Persian Gulf etc...

Crimea = access to the Black Sea
Eastern Ukraine = same as above
Syria = access to Mediterranean Sea
Iran = access to the Persian Gulf

All very important strategic necessities to Russia's survival. Is this all about the Global Elite grabbing Russias Oil to enrich themselves and control the supply to the EU? My hope is we stop poking the bear and bring Russia into the world as an equal partner. Of course, the globalists don't want this, the Neo cons don't want it, the EU doesn't want it and the liberal left in the US doesn't want it. If we keep poking the bear, eventually we are going to get the teeth. How can you really fault Russia for being suspicious of the EU and the West. They really are determined to destroy Russia.

The world is changes. The wast of land, natural resources, mass of chip labor are losing value by day and became liability.
The states who still believe that world is running on this old premises are looking in the face of decline and destruction.
We have nothing of use to us in Russia. We have to leave them alone to find their ways themselves.
Instead we keep helping Putin to keep the power and situation sleeping to the worst possible scenario.
The nation building and exporting our moral values should be taken out from our politics for good.
This strategies failed and were never bound to work.

Botton line is - I don not believe Russia is a true enemy of the United States. I also do not believe that Russia is a threat to the United States. That is, unless we continue on the current course to threaten Russia's borders with military presence and economic isolation. There has to be a thawing of the relationship. Trump took the first step in that direction. He obviously made a huge mistake in the presser, but the concept itself of starting a dialog with Russia is the correct course of action for world safety.

Russia corruption of its state owned resources sold at great discount to create the oligarchs created a modern monarchy which propelled Putin to incredible wealth and power.
Those assets did not create efficient markets or allow the people to participate. It was theirs and it was stolen.
The sanctions are the doing of their government. They need to vote or remove there. This is not on the U.S. Why would they not be allowed to participate in the world economy?
This is Czarist Russia all over again. They did not respond to democracy when it was given to them.

russian agent in bed with NRA gets arrested.

now this:

"The U.S. Treasury said on Monday that it will no longer require certain tax-exempt organizations including politically active nonprofit groups, such as the National Rifle Association and Planned Parenthood, to identify their financial donors to U.S. tax authorities."

lol.

Is Arkud a Russian bot? That would explain the rambling semi-english posts. Let's get back to the Knickerbockers.

djsunyc wrote:russian agent in bed with NRA gets arrested.

now this:

"The U.S. Treasury said on Monday that it will no longer require certain tax-exempt organizations including politically active nonprofit groups, such as the National Rifle Association and Planned Parenthood, to identify their financial donors to U.S. tax authorities."

lol.

Exactly. And you KNOW they threw in Planned Parenthood just to make it sound like that organization was against identifying financial donors at this level

Eye roll

stanleybostitch wrote:Is Arkud a Russian bot? That would explain the rambling semi-english posts. Let's get back to the Knickerbockers.

I absolutely are. And I programmed very good...
I should sound as Russian.

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Akrud.. unicorns shit rainbows. So there is that as well.

To is its dismaying so many in the country are willing to get behind this guy. That is honestly the saddest part. I didnt like Bush Jr and he said a few stupid things but he never embarrassed us as a country and a people. The willful blindness to the bad aspects of this person honestly saddens me. Like finding out your sister's kid likes to kick puppies or something. What do you do? Its just a sick feeling.

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arkrud wrote:Suctioned Russian oligarchs, corrupt government bureaucrats and intelligent officers moving wealth robbed from Russian state and Russian people and laundering them by investing this money in US and elsewhere. With sanctions we made it a little bit more difficult but this is all about it.
In fact sanctions and counter-sanctions by Russia only made live of Russian people even more miserable and repressions to Russian people from the Putin clika more severe.
Up to 70% or Russian youth want to leave the country and go anywhere to work and leave. Russian Empire is in the last decades of final destruction.
There are a lot of facts and research around it in Russia and internationally. I do not want to sadden anybody with zillion of links.
What we need is to be really careful in order to come up out of this major geopolitical calamity with less destruction and death as possible.
And it will not be easy. The Dem versus Reps struggle is completely insignificant and laughable in the content of the possibility of major Nuclier and military power disintegration.

I don't agree that sanctions only made it a little more difficult. Please substantiate. Putin has been all about removing Magnitsky sanctions and further actions above and beyond, that has been his big target. If Magnitsky is no big deal then the USA should make them more stringent.

Also, please let us know he relationship between these sanctions and the rest of the Russian community at large. I don't understand the correlation.

martin wrote:

arkrud wrote:Suctioned Russian oligarchs, corrupt government bureaucrats and intelligent officers moving wealth robbed from Russian state and Russian people and laundering them by investing this money in US and elsewhere. With sanctions we made it a little bit more difficult but this is all about it.
In fact sanctions and counter-sanctions by Russia only made live of Russian people even more miserable and repressions to Russian people from the Putin clika more severe.
Up to 70% or Russian youth want to leave the country and go anywhere to work and leave. Russian Empire is in the last decades of final destruction.
There are a lot of facts and research around it in Russia and internationally. I do not want to sadden anybody with zillion of links.
What we need is to be really careful in order to come up out of this major geopolitical calamity with less destruction and death as possible.
And it will not be easy. The Dem versus Reps struggle is completely insignificant and laughable in the content of the possibility of major Nuclier and military power disintegration.

I don't agree that sanctions only made it a little more difficult. Please substantiate. Putin has been all about removing Magnitsky sanctions and further actions above and beyond, that has been his big target. If Magnitsky is no big deal then the USA should make them more stringent.

Also, please let us know he relationship between these sanctions and the rest of the Russian community at large. I don't understand the correlation.

The sanction are targeting specific people around Putin and as this is basically one mafia group they moving this people to another "assignments" and replace them with other unknown dudes.
At the same time they using sanction as propaganda tool to rally common population against US and West. They are very adept in this and succeed in brainwashing common folk to state of complete hate to US.
To make matters worth Putin and Co declared a contractions and as a part of it they destroying all "sanctioned" food , medications, and other goods and criminally prosecute those who break the sanctions by distributing US and EU countries imports. Even live keeping medications which are not produced in Russia were attempted to add to the sanctioned list but was not implemented as people rebel too much.
Us people need to understand that Putin opposite to Trump is not a clown controlled by checks and balances but smart and evil dictator backed by millions of low-enforcement folks including military, government employees which are majority of all worker in Russia and old people who depend on pensions. He really has the whole nation forced to be behind him.
And every push on Russia makes his position stronger.

djsunyc wrote:russian agent in bed with NRA gets arrested.

now this:

"The U.S. Treasury said on Monday that it will no longer require certain tax-exempt organizations including politically active nonprofit groups, such as the National Rifle Association and Planned Parenthood, to identify their financial donors to U.S. tax authorities."

lol.

martin wrote:

djsunyc wrote:russian agent in bed with NRA gets arrested.

now this:

"The U.S. Treasury said on Monday that it will no longer require certain tax-exempt organizations including politically active nonprofit groups, such as the National Rifle Association and Planned Parenthood, to identify their financial donors to U.S. tax authorities."

lol.

Exactly. And you KNOW they threw in Planned Parenthood just to make it sound like that organization was against identifying financial donors at this level

Eye roll

Yeah...now all the rich Republicans getting their pregnant Playboy bunnies abortions can make secret dark money contributions to PP...Yup.

After watching the Strok hearing and now putting that under the contextual lenses we have now 2-3 weeks after...the GOP looks even more stupid.....David Frum mentioned on CNN today something so simple that I never thought of....the question I believe was why GOP backing Trump even with all this nonsense going on and how they totally ignore the correlation between meddling and it's impact on the election....he said that if they admit that the election was tampered with and Mueller has definitive evidence then all of the previous legislation that they have jammed thru plus SCOTUS has the possibility to be overturned due to the fact that the winner of the election colluded with a foreign power.....this makes a lot of sense into why the GOP will stand with Trump on his sinking ship

Rookie wrote:

arkrud wrote:

Rookie wrote:

arkrud wrote:

martin wrote:

djsunyc wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Get used to it he'll be here 6 more years. Real stupid to try to get along with a country that has higher technical military ability?

that "country" just launched a major cyber TERRORIST attack that manipulated the american people and influenced an entire political party. but time to buddy up.

I think this perspective has been lost on the greater American population, don't even know if Obama and team highlighted this enough when it was first happening. No idea what was done or what is being done, doesn't feel like much at all outside of the Mueller scope of things.

Our country was attached, and not in a traditional sense where bloodshed and death are involved. And it was a terrorist attack, the last one that happened ended up with the USA hunting down and killing the head mastermind and a lot of the perpetrators.

And here is a problem.
Russia is nuclear superpower and the last empire run by coalition of secret services, criminal mafia, and corrupt bureaucrats.
Their main moniker is patriotic nationalism and hate mongering against the West and US in particular.
There is nothing we can do to stop them from doing what they doing.
We need to protect our self as much a we can and be ready for slow and painful degradation of Russian economy.
If we will force their hand many people will die for nothing.
Preventing this worth the sacrifice of some principals as it was done in USSR case.

So if Russia falls, then who controls their natural resources? Is this all about control of Russian energy? The EU and the West have been isolating Russia for decades. We meddle in local politics in neighboring countries all the while weakening Russia and isolating them from the Black Sea, Mediterranean Ocean, Persian Gulf etc...

Crimea = access to the Black Sea
Eastern Ukraine = same as above
Syria = access to Mediterranean Sea
Iran = access to the Persian Gulf

All very important strategic necessities to Russia's survival. Is this all about the Global Elite grabbing Russias Oil to enrich themselves and control the supply to the EU? My hope is we stop poking the bear and bring Russia into the world as an equal partner. Of course, the globalists don't want this, the Neo cons don't want it, the EU doesn't want it and the liberal left in the US doesn't want it. If we keep poking the bear, eventually we are going to get the teeth. How can you really fault Russia for being suspicious of the EU and the West. They really are determined to destroy Russia.

The world is changes. The wast of land, natural resources, mass of chip labor are losing value by day and became liability.
The states who still believe that world is running on this old premises are looking in the face of decline and destruction.
We have nothing of use to us in Russia. We have to leave them alone to find their ways themselves.
Instead we keep helping Putin to keep the power and situation sleeping to the worst possible scenario.
The nation building and exporting our moral values should be taken out from our politics for good.
This strategies failed and were never bound to work.

Botton line is - I don not believe Russia is a true enemy of the United States. I also do not believe that Russia is a threat to the United States. That is, unless we continue on the current course to threaten Russia's borders with military presence and economic isolation. There has to be a thawing of the relationship. Trump took the first step in that direction. He obviously made a huge mistake in the presser, but the concept itself of starting a dialog with Russia is the correct course of action for world safety.

Russia/Russian people may not be a threat to the world but Putin absolutely is. Sure I feel bad for the people of Russia. (Think your confusing the two) But its because of what this tyrant has put them through. We absolutely need to be tough with Putin as he is still a communist dictator and has done horrible things to his people. Problem is, Russia needs to to rid itself of Putin and his communsist ways. Until then, Democratic countries, specially the world leader (USA), should not kiss this communist tyrants ass. Trump just did in front an interanational audience.

fishmike wrote:Akrud.. unicorns shit rainbows. So there is that as well.

To is its dismaying so many in the country are willing to get behind this guy. That is honestly the saddest part. I didnt like Bush Jr and he said a few stupid things but he never embarrassed us as a country and a people. The willful blindness to the bad aspects of this person honestly saddens me. Like finding out your sister's kid likes to kick puppies or something. What do you do? Its just a sick feeling.

Think Akrud is just Russian. If he is, he should realize, more than most, how bad Putin is for the Russian people.

Unfortunately, we have been at this point for quite some time. All the idiots that support this douch will defend him no matter what. Grabbing pussy, making fun of the disabled, racism, collusion with Russia in order to secure a victory. PAR for the course! Trump has just put a former/current communist leader's criminal involvement in our democratic process in the same category of stealing your neighbors cable service. And the idiot Trump supporters agree with him. Really do think that if a video came out with Trump ordering a hit, his supporters would commend his aggressive leadership skills.

arkrud wrote:

martin wrote:

arkrud wrote:Suctioned Russian oligarchs, corrupt government bureaucrats and intelligent officers moving wealth robbed from Russian state and Russian people and laundering them by investing this money in US and elsewhere. With sanctions we made it a little bit more difficult but this is all about it.
In fact sanctions and counter-sanctions by Russia only made live of Russian people even more miserable and repressions to Russian people from the Putin clika more severe.
Up to 70% or Russian youth want to leave the country and go anywhere to work and leave. Russian Empire is in the last decades of final destruction.
There are a lot of facts and research around it in Russia and internationally. I do not want to sadden anybody with zillion of links.
What we need is to be really careful in order to come up out of this major geopolitical calamity with less destruction and death as possible.
And it will not be easy. The Dem versus Reps struggle is completely insignificant and laughable in the content of the possibility of major Nuclier and military power disintegration.

I don't agree that sanctions only made it a little more difficult. Please substantiate. Putin has been all about removing Magnitsky sanctions and further actions above and beyond, that has been his big target. If Magnitsky is no big deal then the USA should make them more stringent.

Also, please let us know he relationship between these sanctions and the rest of the Russian community at large. I don't understand the correlation.

The sanction are targeting specific people around Putin and as this is basically one mafia group they moving this people to another "assignments" and replace them with other unknown dudes.
At the same time they using sanction as propaganda tool to rally common population against US and West. They are very adept in this and succeed in brainwashing common folk to state of complete hate to US.
To make matters worth Putin and Co declared a contractions and as a part of it they destroying all "sanctioned" food , medications, and other goods and criminally prosecute those who break the sanctions by distributing US and EU countries imports. Even live keeping medications which are not produced in Russia were attempted to add to the sanctioned list but was not implemented as people rebel too much.
Us people need to understand that Putin opposite to Trump is not a clown controlled by checks and balances but smart and evil dictator backed by millions of low-enforcement folks including military, government employees which are majority of all worker in Russia and old people who depend on pensions. He really has the whole nation forced to be behind him.
And every push on Russia makes his position stronger.

What you are suggesting is that doing anything against Putin is useless because he will take it out on his own people.

Dude is attaching our country. We can absolutely punch back and should. Sanctions are the tip of what the iceberg should be.

Also, I don't think your assumption that Magnitsky is not effective because it targets certain people is correct. Money and resources are limited as well as global movement.

HofstraBBall wrote:

Yeah...I love this one...been making the rounds for a couple of years.

ekstarks94 wrote:After watching the Strok hearing and now putting that under the contextual lenses we have now 2-3 weeks after...the GOP looks even more stupid.....David Frum mentioned on CNN today something so simple that I never thought of....the question I believe was why GOP backing Trump even with all this nonsense going on and how they totally ignore the correlation between meddling and it's impact on the election....he said that if they admit that the election was tampered with and Mueller has definitive evidence then all of the previous legislation that they have jammed thru plus SCOTUS has the possibility to be overturned due to the fact that the winner of the election colluded with a foreign power.....this makes a lot of sense into why the GOP will stand with Trump on his sinking ship

Respectfully disagree. The GOP is not stupid. It's the people and the Democrats that are stupid. What Trump and the GOP are doing behind the scenes is nothing short of dismantling every single protection, check and balance meant to keep corporations from completely taking over and running the country as they see fit for their own perverse pleasures. What you are seeing here is just the distraction, the more ad hoc and badly botched the more everyone screams for blood and focuses on the wrong thing. Russian meddling in the elections is definitely an issue worth focusing on, but the GOP is bleeding the US like a cut pig using that as a smokescreen.

Don't be fooled. The GOP in it's current stae is the most dangerous organization in the history of the world. Listen to Chomsky.