Knicks · OT: What If Giannis Antetokounmpo Becomes Available? (page 1)
NardDogNation wrote:Just to be clear, I've been a proponent of the youth movement and building through the draft in general...but if Giannis becomes available, I think I'd sacrifice whatever we've collected (outside of KP), our 2019 first round pick (unprotected) and future picks for him. I think what we have in Knox, Mitchell, Ntilikina and assets are compelling enough to be a competitive offer if there is a bidding war. It would deplete our team but with impending cap space, I think we could reasonably re-tool around both he and Kristaps. Worse comes to worse, we could take a swing at Kyrie, who I wouldn't mind as the 3rd star on the team. Of course all this is contingent on the Bucks underperforming this season but I don't see that as a stretch despite the addition of Budenholzer and their lack of floor spacing.
While things can change. He has shown 0 interest in leaving the Bucks. Even stated something along the lines of wanting to be a Buck for life or something like that.
What has sparked this thread to believe he would be available?
Didnt know this until recently, but the Knicks havent moved up in the lotto in more than 30 years, just down. Maybe the new format will change that. and we find a stud PG in draft.
Maybe Cole Aldrich instead of Giannis, heh heh.
newyorknewyork wrote:NardDogNation wrote:Just to be clear, I've been a proponent of the youth movement and building through the draft in general...but if Giannis becomes available, I think I'd sacrifice whatever we've collected (outside of KP), our 2019 first round pick (unprotected) and future picks for him. I think what we have in Knox, Mitchell, Ntilikina and assets are compelling enough to be a competitive offer if there is a bidding war. It would deplete our team but with impending cap space, I think we could reasonably re-tool around both he and Kristaps. Worse comes to worse, we could take a swing at Kyrie, who I wouldn't mind as the 3rd star on the team. Of course all this is contingent on the Bucks underperforming this season but I don't see that as a stretch despite the addition of Budenholzer and their lack of floor spacing.While things can change. He has shown 0 interest in leaving the Bucks. Even stated something along the lines of wanting to be a Buck for life or something like that.
What has sparked this thread to believe he would be available?
LMAO, the fact that it's the summer and I have found myself too excited about our summer league to be content.
But there had been rumors of Giannis growing discontented and disillusioned with the franchise throughout last season. I'm more or less operating off of that and the inherent appeal of having both he and KP on the same roster.
The Bucks did a terrific job hiring Mike Budenholzer-who is a pretty good X's and O's coach- but it seems the Bucks are more structurally flawed than anything else. I don't think they offer the kind of floor spacing needed to maximize having a talent like Giannis. And if that leads to another disappointing season, I could easily see Giannis trade rumors reaching a fevered pitch. He already had a public meltdown with an assistant coach last season and if you believe Jason Kidd, was angered by his firing. He has stated in the past he wanted to be a Bucks lifer....but Kawhi said the same thing about the Spurs and Durant about the Thunder. At some point, ego takes control of the process and these stars push their way to larger markets. He's one of the few I'd be willing to gut the team for if that ever became the case for him.
Remember that Giannis is only 23 years old and has plenty of basketball left in him. And despite his burden and physical profile, he has hardly missed any games due to injury, which make him the best investment we could make.
GustavBahler wrote:Guessing that Budenholzer, with his pedigree, will get Giannis to buy in. If the answer isnt on this roster, I hope a PG is on the wish list. Maybe a quality backup on another team who looks ready to be a starter.Didnt know this until recently, but the Knicks havent moved up in the lotto in more than 30 years, just down. Maybe the new format will change that. and we find a stud PG in draft.
Maybe Cole Aldrich instead of Giannis, heh heh.
I like Budenholzer but outside of him, the Bucks don't have much to hang their hat on. Their talent around Giannis is underwhelming and their payroll situation makes it difficult to change personnel. Maybe they can surprise in an extremely weak Eastern Conference but I've still got the Raptors, Celtics and Sixers ranked ahead of them. If that prediction bares itself out, I don't think he stays in Milwaukee longer-term. And aren't he and KP suppposedly close? If so, that could be another strike against the Bucks.
Knixkik wrote:Giannis is still so young. I’m guessing he is content until age 28 at least if they don’t take a big step forward.
His Dad just died. That was a big upheaval, Im sure. Might not want any more for a while, outside of a new coach. Between Giannis and a top flight coach, they should be able to pick off some decent FAs in time. Even if it is a small market.
Knixkik wrote:Giannis is still so young. I’m guessing he is content until age 28 at least if they don’t take a big step forward.
Shaq was 24 years old when he left the Magic for the Lakers. Tracy McGrady wad 21 years old when he left the Raptors for the Magic. LeBron James was 25 years old when he left the Cavs for the Heat. Giannis is 23 years old about to turn 24 by comparison. I think he's exactly at the age and point in his career to explore greener pastures.
GustavBahler wrote:Knixkik wrote:Giannis is still so young. I’m guessing he is content until age 28 at least if they don’t take a big step forward.His Dad just died. That was a big upheaval, Im sure. Might not want any more for a while, outside of a new coach. Between Giannis and a top flight coach, they should be able to pick off some decent FAs in time. Even if it is a small market.
I feel like that grief could express itself in a number of ways. His Dad dying could also show him how short life is and how urgently things need to be handled. The Bucks have been dismal at surrounding him with talent while the Knicks have the ability to pair him with one of the better ones in the league, who he supposedly has a relationship with. I think that could be tantalizing and comforting at the same time.
TripleThreat wrote:NardDogNation wrote:Knixkik wrote:Giannis is still so young. I’m guessing he is content until age 28 at least if they don’t take a big step forward.Shaq was 24 years old when he left the Magic for the Lakers. Tracy McGrady wad 21 years old when he left the Raptors for the Magic. LeBron James was 25 years old when he left the Cavs for the Heat. Giannis is 23 years old about to turn 24 by comparison. I think he's exactly at the age and point in his career to explore greener pastures.
Greek Freak is a Nike endorsed Signature athlete. It means he's leaving the Bucks.As a Knicks fans, I wish NY were the greener pastures. But it's not.
Nike's ideal scenario is to have a Signature athlete on all four remaining teams in the playoffs. The ECF and the WCF with both sides featuring a Nike guy. In the East, the softer pathway, it means the Celtics or 76ers. If Irving leaves Boston, either team. If Irving stays, then the 76ers.
If Durant leaves the Warriors, then possibly the Warriors.
Honestly the Warriors make the most sense across all factors.
There are no gaurantees of health, especially with the Sixers whose main stars have missed a minimum of a full season. If Nikes aim is to have 4 signature athletes in the Conference Finals, they might be better off having multiple options. That's where we can come in. Besides, what market would better feature an athlete- domestically and abroad- than NY?
TripleThreat wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:NardDogNation wrote:Just to be clear, I've been a proponent of the youth movement and building through the draft in general...but if Giannis becomes available, I think I'd sacrifice whatever we've collected (outside of KP), our 2019 first round pick (unprotected) and future picks for him. I think what we have in Knox, Mitchell, Ntilikina and assets are compelling enough to be a competitive offer if there is a bidding war. It would deplete our team but with impending cap space, I think we could reasonably re-tool around both he and Kristaps. Worse comes to worse, we could take a swing at Kyrie, who I wouldn't mind as the 3rd star on the team. Of course all this is contingent on the Bucks underperforming this season but I don't see that as a stretch despite the addition of Budenholzer and their lack of floor spacing.While things can change. He has shown 0 interest in leaving the Bucks. Even stated something along the lines of wanting to be a Buck for life or something like that.
What has sparked this thread to believe he would be available?
The complication for any Greek Freak trade is that the Bucks have a complicated ownership situation. A three headed monster in Edens, Lasry and Dinan. You'd need two Yes votes out of the three to trade him. The background of the three indicated that the NBA purchase was just an investment, pump and dump. No one expected them to hold onto the Bucks so long. The other issue is only one owner at a time has final veto power ( i.e. in the event of a tie vote with an abstention) This rotates every few years.In a resale of the Bucks, a Greek Freak on the team WITH a long term extension signed makes it all the more desirable to drive up the price. Ballmer paid what he did in part because Blake Griffin and Chris Paul were there. If not, do you think he'd pay 2 billion? The resale prices of NBA franchises are skyrocketing. Good for the other owners. The fallout though is very few people left who can outright buy a team. The NBA, like the NFL and MLB, would prefer NOT to have ownership groups. But as the prices go up, and the range of guys they don't want in the league ( like Larry Ellison types) grow larger, the NBA doesn't have much of a choice.
People in the NBA really hated Paul Allen. I think this spurred more discretion in who is seen as a good fit to be a NBA owner or not. The league would certainly not take Mark Cuban now.
If he's up for trade and would sign an extension with the team he was traded too, then aside from Steph Curry and Anthony Davis, every other player and asset would be up for trade by every team in the league. If the Bucks approached the Lakers and said we went LBJ, the Lakers would do it. If the GSW had gotten Durant to sign a longer deal last year, they'd trade Durant. No player outside of Curry and Brow would be untouchable.
Rumors are that Mark Cuban is trying to angle Greek Freak's little brother into his front office ( his pan out rate to be an NBA player isn't great) over the long haul. If Greek Freak is a free agent and shopping around, if it gets to that point. He might end up a Maverick.
If Greek Freak wanted to be a Knick, Zinger would have to go in the trade. The rental price for Greek Freak from other non Knicks teams, if it got that desperate, would be worth more than any non Zinger package.
I would laugh for four years straight if the Lakers sent LBJ packing at the deadline for Greek Freak. LBJ signed a four year deal, the last year is an option year for him, but at his age profile, he'd be hard pressed to opt out. Because LBJ has no previous service time with the Lakers, he could not get a NTC. He could refuse to report, like Zo Mourning did to the Raptors. Except this would ignite small market owners versus big market owners, and the deeper issue of expanded revenue sharing. Big market owners want none of that, would shit down the networks throats, who would shit down Nike's throat, who would shit down LBJ's throat. LBJ would literally have to retire or be a Buck.
When stars never get traded for equal on-court value. We just saw Kawhi Leonard (a top-5 player when healthy according to experts) moved for a guy that is a fringe all-star that is inefficient. What leads you to believe that the offers for Giannis will be so overwhelming that we could not put together a package? What would the best package realistically look like?
I understand the ownership dynamics at play might complicate things. Seems that is how the Hawks ended up losing Al Horford and Paul Millsap for nothing despite the outcome being pretty clear. But with stuff like that as a cautionary tale and Giannis' impending free agency, I presume an ownership team would be inclined to recoup value while they still have leverage.
NardDogNation wrote:Just to be clear, I've been a proponent of the youth movement and building through the draft in general...but if Giannis becomes available, I think I'd sacrifice whatever we've collected (outside of KP), our 2019 first round pick (unprotected) and future picks for him. I think what we have in Knox, Mitchell, Ntilikina and assets are compelling enough to field a competitive offer if there is a bidding war. It would deplete our team but with impending cap space, I think we could reasonably re-tool around both he and Kristaps. Worse comes to worse, we could take a swing at Kyrie, who I wouldn't mind as the 3rd star on the team (and is the only scenario I'd want him). Of course all this is contingent on the Bucks underperforming this season but I don't see that as a stretch with their lack of floor-spacing and creators despite the addition of Budenholzer.
As good as Giannis is, have we not gone down this path before? And not faired well? Think the current plan should be to develop our picks, tank in 2018 and get yet another lotto pick, try to sign free agents in 2019 without giving up any assets and sign some vet minimum guys to help out the yoots. Like that idea much better.
Sneaky Smart!
HofstraBBall wrote:NardDogNation wrote:Just to be clear, I've been a proponent of the youth movement and building through the draft in general...but if Giannis becomes available, I think I'd sacrifice whatever we've collected (outside of KP), our 2019 first round pick (unprotected) and future picks for him. I think what we have in Knox, Mitchell, Ntilikina and assets are compelling enough to field a competitive offer if there is a bidding war. It would deplete our team but with impending cap space, I think we could reasonably re-tool around both he and Kristaps. Worse comes to worse, we could take a swing at Kyrie, who I wouldn't mind as the 3rd star on the team (and is the only scenario I'd want him). Of course all this is contingent on the Bucks underperforming this season but I don't see that as a stretch with their lack of floor-spacing and creators despite the addition of Budenholzer.As good as Giannis is, have we not gone down this path before? And not faired well? Think the current plan should be to develop our picks, tank in 2018 and get yet another lotto pick, try to sign free agents in 2019 without giving up any assets and sign some vet minimum guys to help out the yoots. Like that idea much better.
We've never gone down this path before because we've never had a player of Giannis' stature before. And when you factor in the fact that he has not missed more than 5 games in any given season despite his workload, he is well worth gutting a team especially if we keep KP. Even though we'd be losing our roster, we'd still have enough money to add pieces around that core. A healthy Giannis-KP-Butler/Irving core are the ingredients to upset the Warriors and still young enough to be part of the youth race with the Celtics and Sixers.
As much as there is talk about stacked teams, stars are ultimately the ones that dictate success. Our focus should be about getting as many as we can that actually compliment one another. Giannis would be a coupe for serving that purpose.
SupremeCommander wrote:if I got the call to trade for Giannis, I would mute the phone, put it down, and run and jump around screaming and giddy. Unicorn? Giannis is a unicorn. He could very well be the best player in the league in a few years. I love KP but I'd trade him for Giannis in a New York Minute
Yeah, everyone on the roster would have to be on the table if Giannis was available. Coach might feel differently, but I'd throw in Natasha too lol A shame this scenario won't take place until Giannis is 33 years old.
SupremeCommander wrote:if I got the call to trade for Giannis, I would mute the phone, put it down, and run and jump around screaming and giddy. Unicorn? Giannis is a unicorn. He could very well be the best player in the league in a few years. I love KP but I'd trade him for Giannis in a New York Minute
100%
He is still a hell of a player but imagine having to wait all those years!!
Funny, Knick fans all want these guys and willing to trade the team for them! I get it, but then whats left? WE then become "Milwaukee", or the knicks with melo, etc.
We got a few guys that really might add up. This is not Felton, Wilson, Mozgov and Felton. Our "Fiz Kids" are blue chippers with high ceilings. Yeah, even Frank!!!
TheGame wrote:interesting question. My view is we have been down this path too many times to try it again even with a Gannis. Stay the course, sign 1 or 2 max players and ride and die with what we develop. I think in Knox and Robinson we have two max type players by their 3rd and 4th years. Our team will be stacked just by staying the course. Just say not to trades that gut the team.
You are far too rational for your sig.
TheGame wrote:interesting question. My view is we have been down this path too many times to try it again even with a Gannis. Stay the course, sign 1 or 2 max players and ride and die with what we develop. I think in Knox and Robinson we have two max type players by their 3rd and 4th years. Our team will be stacked just by staying the course. Just say not to trades that gut the team.
Have we? I don't think it's fair to try and conflate this type of scenario with anything we've done in the past because Giannis is a generational talent and would easily be the best player to don a Knicks jersey. That doesn't grow on trees and are understood to be the foundation pieces of dynasties. So I think it's actually prudent to sell the farm for Giannis if he does become available. More importantly, we'd actually have the means to re-tool the team around him (and KP) by using cap space ala the Heat in 2010 or what the Lakers plan on doing with LeBron in 2019. In the past, we not only gutted the team but traded away future assets and cap space to improve the team around a fatally flawed all-star.
But like you I'm high on Kevin Knox and could see the appeal of Mitchell Robinson. Even with that being the case, their best case scenario does not equal what a 23 year old Giannis already is now, let alone in the future. And even scarier is that Giannis combines BOTH their skillsets (Knox on the offensive end and Mitchell on the defensive end; playing both their positions and lead guard). Having him at max basically gets you a better version of Knox and Mitchell, who would EACH require max if they fulfill their potential. So it stands to reason that consolidating the talent and price makes MORE sense.