http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24323...I kinda expected this but its still disappointing
Having Noah's dead money on the books till the 2020s is unwise, this is a mistake imo
A couple of silver linings tho, frees up a roster spot and clears a path for MRob & Kornet to get consistent mins backing up Kanter
Thoughts?
Perry pulls a favorable trade off and he’ll be exec of the year
I think it is best to move on. Noah doesn't belong on a rebuiding team and he wasn't happy with his role last year. I also think he is done as a player. This is a new regime and the KNicks are actually doing a real rebuild. No place for Noah in NY.
Still think Noah can be traded to Wolves in a deal for Gorgui Deing. Deing has 1 more year than Noah but for less $ per which alone saves $ on the cap. Include maybe a Lee in the Deal then it’s a big savings.
Would do the deal for Deing alone over waiving Noah outright; while we at least get a player that actually can fit into Fiz’s system by shooting the ball a bit and providing length.
Leaking this now, gives teams a month to agree on a trade. There are plenty of dead weight players teams are trying to unload.
Perry has gone fishing
CrushAlot wrote:I think it is best to move on. Noah doesn't belong on a rebuiding team and he wasn't happy with his role last year. I also think he is done as a player. This is a new regime and the KNicks are actually doing a real rebuild. No place for Noah in NY.
Yes but at the cost of having his dead salary on the books years after he's gone? Steep price to pay
Ok one can say oh well its only like 6 mill n change anyway that aint a lot, that's nothing. But its still 6 mill less you have to work with for multiple years not including next season
Was he really such a locker room cancer they couldn't stomach him for one more year, buy him out @ the end of next season and be done with him forever after that with no dead money on the books going forward
So I think the vet min for a player with 10+ years is right around $2.4M (and I THINK the ensuing cap hit is only something like $1.4 for some odd reason). If the Knicks buy out Noah in the last year of his deal and stretch him, he could make ~$5M over the 2 years, so it would be fair to buy him out at a price of $5M for the last year of his contract? Instead of stretching the $19M they may need to only stretch $14M for a cap hit of $4.5 over 3 years.
No idea if the above is right but I wonder if buyout is possible with this type of scenario.
The Knicks are trying to play in 2019 free agency and I'm for this if it helps. They still need to clear Lee and Hardaway though.
martin wrote:So I think the vet min for a player with 10+ years is right around $2.4M (and I THINK the ensuing cap hit is only something like $1.4 for some odd reason). If the Knicks buy out Noah in the last year of his deal and stretch him, he could make ~$5M over the 2 years, so it would be fair to buy him out at a price of $5M for the last year of his contract? Instead of stretching the $19M they may need to only stretch $14M for a cap hit of $4.5 over 3 years.No idea if the above is right but I wonder if buyout is possible with this type of scenario.
I am no expert on these things, but it makes sense Martin. To just cut the guy is a bit senseless, especially since we have a new coach and front office. As another poster mentioned we might be able to trade him for a contract that is longer but the same amount of money (if the player is one we can use.) And the other obvious choice is what you mentioned - buy him out for less (minus his next contract) and save a bit more there. As we have seen in the past, even a 1 million savings here and there, comes into play.
TLover wrote:Still think Noah can be traded to Wolves in a deal for Gorgui Deing. Deing has 1 more year than Noah but for less $ per which alone saves $ on the cap. Include maybe a Lee in the Deal then it’s a big savings. Would do the deal for Deing alone over waiving Noah outright; while we at least get a player that actually can fit into Fiz’s system by shooting the ball a bit and providing length.
No, I don't like that as the whole point is to clear cap space for 2019, so having Deing on the books makes no sense and stretching Deing would mean dead cap space for longer.
I'm also disappointed we haven't moved Lee- it means we start the season with a logjam in the backcourt
QnzKnickerbocker87 wrote:CrushAlot wrote:I think it is best to move on. Noah doesn't belong on a rebuiding team and he wasn't happy with his role last year. I also think he is done as a player. This is a new regime and the KNicks are actually doing a real rebuild. No place for Noah in NY.
Yes but at the cost of having his dead salary on the books years after he's gone? Steep price to pay
Ok one can say oh well its only like 6 mill n change anyway that aint a lot, that's nothing. But its still 6 mill less you have to work with for multiple years not including next season
Was he really such a locker room cancer they couldn't stomach him for one more year, buy him out @ the end of next season and be done with him forever after that with no dead money on the books going forward
They just want to turn the page from the Jackson era and give Fizdale a clean slate.Do we really need the assholes in the NY media stirring up trouble all year with Noah? He is just bad karma at this point. Financially it makes sense to wait till next off-season because as an expiring deal the cost to drop him gets far less steep. Plus if we swing and miss on free agents we could just buy him out but if the issue is him screwing up team cohesion he has to go. We can't have this guy ruining our younger players. If that's their concern I get it. If it's just for cap space than thats pretty short-sighted because next off-season there would be way more takers for him. We might use our top 5 pick to move back a few spots and dump him and Lee, or Hardaway Jr.
martin wrote:So I think the vet min for a player with 10+ years is right around $2.4M (and I THINK the ensuing cap hit is only something like $1.4 for some odd reason). If the Knicks buy out Noah in the last year of his deal and stretch him, he could make ~$5M over the 2 years, so it would be fair to buy him out at a price of $5M for the last year of his contract? Instead of stretching the $19M they may need to only stretch $14M for a cap hit of $4.5 over 3 years.No idea if the above is right but I wonder if buyout is possible with this type of scenario.
For some reason that made me feel a lot better about it.
y2zipper wrote:The Knicks are trying to play in 2019 free agency and I'm for this if it helps. They still need to clear Lee and Hardaway though.
Lee yes but Hardaway isn’t going to be cleared. He’s a good player who makes a normal contract for his skill set at his age. He’s not cheap but is a solid starting SG and we need players who can contribute in order for free agents to want to join. KP, Knox, Frank, Hardaway, and Robinson are that core group.
Knixkik wrote:y2zipper wrote:The Knicks are trying to play in 2019 free agency and I'm for this if it helps. They still need to clear Lee and Hardaway though.
Lee yes but Hardaway isn’t going to be cleared. He’s a good player who makes a normal contract for his skill set at his age. He’s not cheap but is a solid starting SG and we need players who can contribute in order for free agents to want to join. KP, Knox, Frank, Hardaway, and Robinson are that core group.
You can't win with Hardaway Jr on your payroll unless you are underpaying another superstar. Basically to build a legit contender with Hardaway Jr on this team making that money Knox has to be Kevin Durant and we need to sign Kevin Durant in FA. Advanced stats say Hardaway Jr. is worth nowhere near his contract
smackeddog wrote:TLover wrote:Still think Noah can be traded to Wolves in a deal for Gorgui Deing. Deing has 1 more year than Noah but for less $ per which alone saves $ on the cap. Include maybe a Lee in the Deal then it’s a big savings. Would do the deal for Deing alone over waiving Noah outright; while we at least get a player that actually can fit into Fiz’s system by shooting the ball a bit and providing length.
No, I don't like that as the whole point is to clear cap space for 2019, so having Deing on the books makes no sense and stretching Deing would mean dead cap space for longer.
I'm also disappointed we haven't moved Lee- it means we start the season with a logjam in the backcourt
But Dieng makes 3 million less than Noah in 2019 which is an extra 3 million in cap space. But it means picking up the extra year in 2020 for 17 mill.. which is not ideal but it’s really about 2019. Plus we could probably get an asset like a draft pick for picking up that extra year. Also having Dieng gives some security if Kantor leaves after the season.
blkexec wrote:Leaking this now, gives teams a month to agree on a trade. There are plenty of dead weight players teams are trying to unload. Perry has gone fishing
This guy has been on the trading block since last September. It's ashamed how some people with solid back rounds come to NY and leave with a shattered reputation. I just can't recall noah every being a problem.
As they said in the article, they are unwilling to attach anything of value(1st picks, or a young player) in a trade.
I also hate the fact that there's no big man vet on the roster..
Jmpasq wrote:Knixkik wrote:y2zipper wrote:The Knicks are trying to play in 2019 free agency and I'm for this if it helps. They still need to clear Lee and Hardaway though.
Lee yes but Hardaway isn’t going to be cleared. He’s a good player who makes a normal contract for his skill set at his age. He’s not cheap but is a solid starting SG and we need players who can contribute in order for free agents to want to join. KP, Knox, Frank, Hardaway, and Robinson are that core group.
You can't win with Hardaway Jr on your payroll unless you are underpaying another superstar. Basically to build a legit contender with Hardaway Jr on this team making that money Knox has to be Kevin Durant and we need to sign Kevin Durant in FA. Advanced stats say Hardaway Jr. is worth nowhere near his contract
Maybe not but he's a contributing player making maybe 15% of the overall cap. That's not a contract that will prevent a team from being really good. It's when you add contracts like Noah on top that make it a problem. If you have a couple of superstars making max money (KP and Kyrie for example), Knox and Frank and some others contributing on rookie contracts, and 1 contract like Hardaway where at worse he's a 6th man on a great team, it doesn't hinder a team at all. Teams get in trouble paying a bunch of Hardaway's who are essentially the middle class of the league. If you have 1 player like this, no big deal.
Jmpasq wrote:Knixkik wrote:y2zipper wrote:The Knicks are trying to play in 2019 free agency and I'm for this if it helps. They still need to clear Lee and Hardaway though.
Lee yes but Hardaway isn’t going to be cleared. He’s a good player who makes a normal contract for his skill set at his age. He’s not cheap but is a solid starting SG and we need players who can contribute in order for free agents to want to join. KP, Knox, Frank, Hardaway, and Robinson are that core group.
You can't win with Hardaway Jr on your payroll unless you are underpaying another superstar. Basically to build a legit contender with Hardaway Jr on this team making that money Knox has to be Kevin Durant and we need to sign Kevin Durant in FA. Advanced stats say Hardaway Jr. is worth nowhere near his contract
Relative to other players around the league making the same money @ his position THJr produced on par/or outproduced many of his like-paid peers. Sure, he's still overpaid, as in general he's a middle of the pack/slightly above average SG, but when you look around the league you can do a lot worse than the 18-20 mill we paying Timmy, whether in general or specific to his position.
knicks1248 wrote:blkexec wrote:Leaking this now, gives teams a month to agree on a trade. There are plenty of dead weight players teams are trying to unload. Perry has gone fishing
This guy has been on the trading block since last September. It's ashamed how some people with solid back rounds come to NY and leave with a shattered reputation. I just can't recall noah every being a problem.
As they said in the article, they are unwilling to attach anything of value(1st picks, or a young player) in a trade.
I also hate the fact that there's no big man vet on the roster..
Noah is 100 percent responsible for shattering his own rep. Got into with Hoiberg over his bench role. Noah was damaged goods before he left the Bulls, but still managed to sweet talk Phil into that ridiculous contract.
After making his FU money, he said FU to the Knicks (and Hornacek) by showing up out of shape. Compounded matters by juicing. Comes back the following season expecting minutes after his suspension. Hornacek made his share of mistakes, telling Noah to go F himself was warranted, amd welcome.
Knicks did nothing to Noah, Noah did it to himself. As someone who used to be a big fan, good riddance.
