I think there's a good chance Irving does a Paul George and stays with the Celtics. Assuming Butler goes to the Clippers (along with Kawhi Leonard) and Durant and Thompson stay with the Warriors or go to the Lakers, what would you do?
We could either keep the cap space and just continue to develop young players and draft (maybe take on salary for a pick), or we could max out a second tier player.
Personally I'd be tempted to go for Middleton, he isn't flashy but he's a good defender and pretty good on offense. He can play SG and SF, allowing for a lot of versatility (Knox can play SF and PF, KP can play C and PF).
Other second tier players are: Kemba Walker, Cousins (NO!), Horford (too old), Tobias Harris, Bledsoe (no), DeAndre jordon (too old), Harrison Barnes.
For me there's a real chance we miss out on the top players, so it reinforces my belief we shouldn't stretch Noah until we know we need and can fill the space.
The best thing that could happen is if we miss out or Kyrie and Butler. The only guys I think are worth max are Durant and Klay Thompson. Ideally, we should look to sign a young up and comer for under $18 mil a season. That would be better than just playing one guy $30 mil.
If KP comes back as all-star, and another youngs show potential to be an all-star next season, we really do not need to sign top free agent
Gudris wrote:If KP comes back as all-star, and another youngs show potential to be an all-star next season, we really do not need to sign top free agent
Lets just say for the sake of arguement.... Frank takes 2 steps forward this season and plays maybe 2 tiers below all star level. He does maybe 13 points, 35% from 3, 6 assists, more aggresive and continued great defense Do we even need Irving? I could venture and say no.
Gudris wrote:If KP comes back as all-star, and another youngs show potential to be an all-star next season, we really do not need to sign top free agent
I don't agree at all with your logic at all... That's like saying what the Lakers did was foolish
If we strike out, I think I would pursue Kemba. I think would allow us to trade a young point for a young SF (I think long term Knox is a PF). If management disagrees maybe it gets us whatever position KP isn't playing (I know we're positionless but still). Kemba has had a great career at MSG. I just think he's one of those guys that would thrive here. I also like the idea of Middleton
I do think you just go out and beg Amar'e to take the money... I'm not suggesting that. I just think you keep adding where possible. Kemba's definitely older than our core, but I mean he's 28. LEt's not check him into a nursing home just yet
I saw in another thread that Oubre might be available... I think that's the move for me. I said what I said above, but really what I want to see is the team continue to add young talent aggressively. I don't think the Wiz will be able to pay him his worth
Allanfan20 wrote:Gudris wrote:If KP comes back as all-star, and another youngs show potential to be an all-star next season, we really do not need to sign top free agent
Lets just say for the sake of arguement.... Frank takes 2 steps forward this season and plays maybe 2 tiers below all star level. He does maybe 13 points, 35% from 3, 6 assists, more aggresive and continued great defense Do we even need Irving? I could venture and say no.
frank over Kyrie..really dude, cmon man lets keep it 100%.
If you said trey taking 2 steps fwd, i can see that happening
i said it before
kemba walker and kris middleton
knicks1248 wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:Gudris wrote:If KP comes back as all-star, and another youngs show potential to be an all-star next season, we really do not need to sign top free agent
Lets just say for the sake of arguement.... Frank takes 2 steps forward this season and plays maybe 2 tiers below all star level. He does maybe 13 points, 35% from 3, 6 assists, more aggresive and continued great defense Do we even need Irving? I could venture and say no.
frank over Kyrie..really dude, cmon man lets keep it 100%.
If you said trey taking 2 steps fwd, i can see that happening
I never said Frank is better. If we can use the space for other spots on the rosters though while Frank develops into, hopefully, an above average PG who plays superior defense, then that is probably in ohr best interests.... especially if KP and Knox turn into stars. We don’t need a superstar at the PG position.
Allanfan20 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:Gudris wrote:If KP comes back as all-star, and another youngs show potential to be an all-star next season, we really do not need to sign top free agent
Lets just say for the sake of arguement.... Frank takes 2 steps forward this season and plays maybe 2 tiers below all star level. He does maybe 13 points, 35% from 3, 6 assists, more aggresive and continued great defense Do we even need Irving? I could venture and say no.
frank over Kyrie..really dude, cmon man lets keep it 100%.
If you said trey taking 2 steps fwd, i can see that happening
I never said Frank is better. If we can use the space for other spots on the rosters though while Frank develops into, hopefully, an above average PG who plays superior defense, then that is probably in ohr best interests.... especially if KP and Knox turn into stars. We don’t need a superstar at the PG position.
the key word you said was IF..There's no If in Kyrie, and butler.
As much as I'm fond of position less basketball, do we really have the talent for that
knicks1248 wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:Gudris wrote:If KP comes back as all-star, and another youngs show potential to be an all-star next season, we really do not need to sign top free agent
Lets just say for the sake of arguement.... Frank takes 2 steps forward this season and plays maybe 2 tiers below all star level. He does maybe 13 points, 35% from 3, 6 assists, more aggresive and continued great defense Do we even need Irving? I could venture and say no.
frank over Kyrie..really dude, cmon man lets keep it 100%.
If you said trey taking 2 steps fwd, i can see that happening
I never said Frank is better. If we can use the space for other spots on the rosters though while Frank develops into, hopefully, an above average PG who plays superior defense, then that is probably in ohr best interests.... especially if KP and Knox turn into stars. We don’t need a superstar at the PG position.
the key word you said was IF..There's no If in Kyrie, and butler.
As much as I'm fond of position less basketball, do we really have the talent for that
"If" is in everyone.
Both are one injury away from being a failure for whoever will gave them the desired 200 millions.
We played this gambling game before and failed every time 17 years straight.
Betting on the fact that we due to some luck is not a winning strategy.
If the top FA will pass on NY it simply means we are not quite there to compete with them on board.
It is OK to get second tier FA but not for the desperation amount of money and not for a long contract.
If the deal will have good value for the team overall it should be done.
We do not need any consolation prizes.
dacash wrote:i said it before
kemba walker and kris middleton
Don't want to pay Kemba max money. I like him, but is he even too 10 at his position? Do you see him becoming top 5 during the life of the contract? I say we punt on that idea. Middleton is good. Again it comes down to contract. I wouldn't be surprised if he got a max. But is he worth the max to us at age 28? He's a good supporting player, but he won't carry you to a playoff spot
BigDaddyG wrote:dacash wrote:i said it before
kemba walker and kris middleton
Don't want to pay Kemba max money. I like him, but is he even too 10 at his position? Do you see him becoming top 5 during the life of the contract? I say we punt on that idea. Middleton is good. Again it comes down to contract. I wouldn't be surprised if he got a max. But is he worth the max to us at age 28? He's a good supporting player, but he won't carry you to a playoff spot
Exactly.
Teams a maxing players out of desperation but this is not making player elite.
It just makes them overpraised players.
The whole premise of "new vision" pitched by new front office is to stay away from that.
We Kyrie is too injury prone for his style of game in my opinion.
It all depends on how the team looks out of the gate. Hard to know what adjustments to the roster need to be made before we see what we've got.
Our younger players might make a cap hitting player an unnecessary expense right now because they're progressing at a nice clip.
Would be great to find that Frank, Burke, are playing well enough to make mgmt want to hold off on a big ticket PG signing.
If the backcourt does a good job of running the offense, everyone will benefit.
If we miss out on Durant and Klay - then don't sign someone like Kemba for the max. Just wait... more options can present themselves in the future. Don't squander our financial flexibility by locking up a B level star just because we don't want to strike out. Players get traded or younger players improve - need to be budget conscious on an ongoing basis from now on... not just for one off season and then we revert back to panic mode...
jskinny35 wrote:If we miss out on Durant and Klay - then don't sign someone like Kemba for the max. Just wait... more options can present themselves in the future. Don't squander our financial flexibility by locking up a B level star just because we don't want to strike out. Players get traded or younger players improve - need to be budget conscious on an ongoing basis from now on... not just for one off season and then we revert back to panic mode...
True, things happen and doors open. More important to be ready if and when it happens. meanwhile keep the picks and stay the course. There is not a clear path but that's ok. Stick to the fundamentals of a plan and be prepared.
Luck: when opportunity and preparation collide. Jimmy Butler is not on our timeline. Kyrie at 27 I might be ok with but the injury frequency bothers me.
Gudris wrote:If KP comes back as all-star, and another youngs show potential to be an all-star next season, we really do not need to sign top free agent
We would, because after we have to pay KP our window for adding another stud through FA may close. Knicks would probably retain Herzonia, Burke, and maybe Kanter If we miss out on a stud. The goal will be to make the playoffs and make a leap after next season.
Have to try and secure a top tier FA this coming off season through FA. Then build up more depth afterward with further development of players and smaller additions over time.
GustavBahler wrote:It all depends on how the team looks out of the gate. Hard to know what adjustments to the roster need to be made before we see what we've got. Our younger players might make a cap hitting player an unnecessary expense right now because they're progressing at a nice clip.
Would be great to find that Frank, Burke, are playing well enough to make mgmt want to hold off on a big ticket PG signing.
If the backcourt does a good job of running the offense, everyone will benefit.
For once i agree a little with mills thinking, and I sure as hell don't want to make the mistake of giving up a boat load of assets to get a player that really want to be here. I'm all for seeing what these kids got, but you have to be carefully and never put all your eggs in one basket, because if the kids turn out to less than good, and you keep spinning your wheels in the draft, whats the difference.
What mills and perry can do different than past regimes is actually flat out winning a trade, making a smart trade that won't backfire in there face like Phil did with the Rose trade. If you can unload THJ and Lee, for butler, there isn't any losing in a trade like that. you would have cleared almost 30 mill in cap space, and get chance to see if butler can mix in with the youth movement...
arkrud wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:dacash wrote:i said it before
kemba walker and kris middleton
Don't want to pay Kemba max money. I like him, but is he even too 10 at his position? Do you see him becoming top 5 during the life of the contract? I say we punt on that idea. Middleton is good. Again it comes down to contract. I wouldn't be surprised if he got a max. But is he worth the max to us at age 28? He's a good supporting player, but he won't carry you to a playoff spot
Exactly.
Teams a maxing players out of desperation but this is not making player elite.
It just makes them overpraised players.
The whole premise of "new vision" pitched by new front office is to stay away from that.
no no not a max but he and middleton would command less than that , less than the max by a few million dollars
dacash wrote:arkrud wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:dacash wrote:i said it before
kemba walker and kris middleton
Don't want to pay Kemba max money. I like him, but is he even too 10 at his position? Do you see him becoming top 5 during the life of the contract? I say we punt on that idea. Middleton is good. Again it comes down to contract. I wouldn't be surprised if he got a max. But is he worth the max to us at age 28? He's a good supporting player, but he won't carry you to a playoff spot
Exactly.
Teams a maxing players out of desperation but this is not making player elite.
It just makes them overpraised players.
The whole premise of "new vision" pitched by new front office is to stay away from that.
no no not a max but he and middleton would command less than that , less than the max by a few million dollars
So many teams will have cap space I think all second tier players will get maxed out
Keeping hitting on players in the draft,and look at RFA's and such.
