Knicks · The 2019 Draft (page 7)
Cartman718 wrote:martin wrote:Cartman718 wrote:Zion relies on his athleticism a bit too much in games. On one hand, glad to see he likes mixing it up in the paint, but on the other hand...when are we ever going to play him at PF at that height. He needs to be able to really shoot it from the outside. We need sharp shooters more than anything else. Dude has an infectious personality, but there's a few red flags. That weight worries me whats going to happen 5 years from now...is he going to turn into mike sweetney?At the moment, I would pass on Zion.
Said no one ever, except you
lol ok we'll see...
If we were picking first. I would still consider Barrett first. We need a "safe" pick just to balance out and diversify our investments on the last three first round picks.
Cartman718 wrote:martin wrote:Cartman718 wrote:Zion relies on his athleticism a bit too much in games. On one hand, glad to see he likes mixing it up in the paint, but on the other hand...when are we ever going to play him at PF at that height. He needs to be able to really shoot it from the outside. We need sharp shooters more than anything else. Dude has an infectious personality, but there's a few red flags. That weight worries me whats going to happen 5 years from now...is he going to turn into mike sweetney?At the moment, I would pass on Zion.
Said no one ever, except you
lol ok we'll see...
Except this isn’t “baby-fat” (I hate that term) Sweetney. Zion is built like LeBron, meaning he is ripped. His motor is high and he is VERY skilled. If you think Barrett is a better player and will always be, then I understand that view but we’ll have to agree to disagree. Otherwise, we have to pray to dear God we win the lotto so that we even have a chance ar Zion. Our chances aren’t good regardless. They meant business when they discouraged tanking with the new lotto format.
meloshouldgo wrote:Cartman718 wrote:martin wrote:Cartman718 wrote:Zion relies on his athleticism a bit too much in games. On one hand, glad to see he likes mixing it up in the paint, but on the other hand...when are we ever going to play him at PF at that height. He needs to be able to really shoot it from the outside. We need sharp shooters more than anything else. Dude has an infectious personality, but there's a few red flags. That weight worries me whats going to happen 5 years from now...is he going to turn into mike sweetney?At the moment, I would pass on Zion.
Said no one ever, except you
lol ok we'll see...
If we were picking first. I would still consider Barrett first. We need a "safe" pick just to balance out and diversify our investments on the last three first round picks.
Said no one ever, except you
kid does not look fat to me. He is a lot bigger than Lebron was at the same age. Im not sure we have seen this before. The comps are closer to Barkley but more everything.
I'd be concerned about him getting too big but does he love the game and keep himself in tune year round?
I have never seen a kid this big move like that.
Allanfan20 wrote:Cartman718 wrote:martin wrote:Cartman718 wrote:Zion relies on his athleticism a bit too much in games. On one hand, glad to see he likes mixing it up in the paint, but on the other hand...when are we ever going to play him at PF at that height. He needs to be able to really shoot it from the outside. We need sharp shooters more than anything else. Dude has an infectious personality, but there's a few red flags. That weight worries me whats going to happen 5 years from now...is he going to turn into mike sweetney?At the moment, I would pass on Zion.
Said no one ever, except you
lol ok we'll see...
Except this isn’t “baby-fat” (I hate that term) Sweetney. Zion is built like LeBron, meaning he is ripped. His motor is high and he is VERY skilled. If you think Barrett is a better player and will always be, then I understand that view but we’ll have to agree to disagree. Otherwise, we have to pray to dear God we win the lotto so that we even have a chance ar Zion. Our chances aren’t good regardless. They meant business when they discouraged tanking with the new lotto format.
Zion's passing and ball handling are very underrated. He relies too much on athleticism? So do most star players in this league. Don't get me wrong, I like Barret too. But Zion is CLEARLY the top pick.
Nalod wrote:Zion is not a finished product and no doubt will have to learn to play with less emotion and tone it down. he contests a lot of shots and might damn well kill himself trying in college.
kid does not look fat to me. He is a lot bigger than Lebron was at the same age. Im not sure we have seen this before. The comps are closer to Barkley but more everything.
I'd be concerned about him getting too big but does he love the game and keep himself in tune year round?
I have never seen a kid this big move like that.
Yeah, he’s going to need a consistent mid range and 3 point shot if he wants to be the threat he is right now. I think he will develop that if he isn’t already.
Allanfan20 wrote:Nalod wrote:Zion is not a finished product and no doubt will have to learn to play with less emotion and tone it down. he contests a lot of shots and might damn well kill himself trying in college.
kid does not look fat to me. He is a lot bigger than Lebron was at the same age. Im not sure we have seen this before. The comps are closer to Barkley but more everything.
I'd be concerned about him getting too big but does he love the game and keep himself in tune year round?
I have never seen a kid this big move like that.Yeah, he’s going to need a consistent mid range and 3 point shot if he wants to be the threat he is right now. I think he will develop that if he isn’t already.
He's a very unique player.
I know Barkely is often a comparison I hear, but I think a lot about LJ pre-back injury when he was Grandmama.
That being said, Zion is even more athletic and wider. He also has very good footwork, which LJ also had in his game or at least added.
He needs a jump shot, but you'd be fool not to take him at #1.
BigDaddyG wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:Cartman718 wrote:martin wrote:Cartman718 wrote:Zion relies on his athleticism a bit too much in games. On one hand, glad to see he likes mixing it up in the paint, but on the other hand...when are we ever going to play him at PF at that height. He needs to be able to really shoot it from the outside. We need sharp shooters more than anything else. Dude has an infectious personality, but there's a few red flags. That weight worries me whats going to happen 5 years from now...is he going to turn into mike sweetney?At the moment, I would pass on Zion.
Said no one ever, except you
lol ok we'll see...
Except this isn’t “baby-fat” (I hate that term) Sweetney. Zion is built like LeBron, meaning he is ripped. His motor is high and he is VERY skilled. If you think Barrett is a better player and will always be, then I understand that view but we’ll have to agree to disagree. Otherwise, we have to pray to dear God we win the lotto so that we even have a chance ar Zion. Our chances aren’t good regardless. They meant business when they discouraged tanking with the new lotto format.
Zion's passing and ball handling are very underrated. He relies too much on athleticism? So do most star players in this league. Don't get me wrong, I like Barret too. But Zion is CLEARLY the top pick.
Indeed.
He does take risks trying to make steals - so shows the scouting videos as well - and I have seen him disappear, as he doesn't really have a reliable go-to game with the ball in his hands outside of the paint, and is a poor FT shooter, but shooting can be learned.
I think the weight questions are not something to be ignored, but nowadays there is so much more known about diet/training that I think it will be fine as long as he aims to live a fit and healthy lifestyle.
As for his height, will it matter? He has incredible strength, great reach plus I think the most otherworldly hops I've ever seen that means he doesn't really need height.
However, the chances we land him are slim. Even if we are in the top 2. Everyone has a bad chance, but that's why we are more likely to not get him and I think we have to expect that reality.
The draft lottery is closer to a real lottery with the new chances, and the worse part is that it also means a greater chance of dropping quite far down as well.
PresIke wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:Nalod wrote:Zion is not a finished product and no doubt will have to learn to play with less emotion and tone it down. he contests a lot of shots and might damn well kill himself trying in college.
kid does not look fat to me. He is a lot bigger than Lebron was at the same age. Im not sure we have seen this before. The comps are closer to Barkley but more everything.
I'd be concerned about him getting too big but does he love the game and keep himself in tune year round?
I have never seen a kid this big move like that.Yeah, he’s going to need a consistent mid range and 3 point shot if he wants to be the threat he is right now. I think he will develop that if he isn’t already.
He's a very unique player.
I know Barkely is often a comparison I hear, but I think a lot about LJ pre-back injury when he was Grandmama.
That being said, Zion is even more athletic and wider. He also has very good footwork, which LJ also had in his game or at least added.
He needs a jump shot, but you'd be fool not to take him at #1.
Plus, LJ was a senior when he entered the draft and was 22 in his rookie year. Zion is only 18. LJ was one of the most unique athletes I've ever seen and Zion already eclipses him athletically at the age of 18! Think about that! He also has a 6'10" wingspan. While it's not freakish, it's still solid.
BigDaddyG wrote:PresIke wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:Nalod wrote:Zion is not a finished product and no doubt will have to learn to play with less emotion and tone it down. he contests a lot of shots and might damn well kill himself trying in college.
kid does not look fat to me. He is a lot bigger than Lebron was at the same age. Im not sure we have seen this before. The comps are closer to Barkley but more everything.
I'd be concerned about him getting too big but does he love the game and keep himself in tune year round?
I have never seen a kid this big move like that.Yeah, he’s going to need a consistent mid range and 3 point shot if he wants to be the threat he is right now. I think he will develop that if he isn’t already.
He's a very unique player.
I know Barkely is often a comparison I hear, but I think a lot about LJ pre-back injury when he was Grandmama.
That being said, Zion is even more athletic and wider. He also has very good footwork, which LJ also had in his game or at least added.
He needs a jump shot, but you'd be fool not to take him at #1.
Plus, LJ was a senior when he entered the draft and was 22 in his rookie year. Zion is only 18. LJ was one of the most unique athletes I've ever seen and Zion already eclipses him athletically at the age of 18! Think about that! He also has a 6'10" wingspan. While it's not freakish, it's still solid.
Yeah, I think of LJ too, althougb I remwmber LJ being pretty terrible at defense the first few years of his career.
BigDaddyG wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:Cartman718 wrote:martin wrote:Cartman718 wrote:Zion relies on his athleticism a bit too much in games. On one hand, glad to see he likes mixing it up in the paint, but on the other hand...when are we ever going to play him at PF at that height. He needs to be able to really shoot it from the outside. We need sharp shooters more than anything else. Dude has an infectious personality, but there's a few red flags. That weight worries me whats going to happen 5 years from now...is he going to turn into mike sweetney?At the moment, I would pass on Zion.
Said no one ever, except you
lol ok we'll see...
Except this isn’t “baby-fat” (I hate that term) Sweetney. Zion is built like LeBron, meaning he is ripped. His motor is high and he is VERY skilled. If you think Barrett is a better player and will always be, then I understand that view but we’ll have to agree to disagree. Otherwise, we have to pray to dear God we win the lotto so that we even have a chance ar Zion. Our chances aren’t good regardless. They meant business when they discouraged tanking with the new lotto format.
Zion's passing and ball handling are very underrated. He relies too much on athleticism? So do most star players in this league. Don't get me wrong, I like Barret too. But Zion is CLEARLY the top pick.
lebron developed a consistent jump shot...can zion? is that a risk? yes...
impact to knee every time he jumps up...at 6'5 - 6'6 280...that's a lot of impact over the years...Lebron's atheleticism was at 2 inches taller and 45 lbs lighter....much less impact.
ball handling for zion...yes its hice. Passing...maybe open court...not really half court i think
Cartman718 wrote:Zion relies on his athleticism a bit too much in games. On one hand, glad to see he likes mixing it up in the paint, but on the other hand...when are we ever going to play him at PF at that height. He needs to be able to really shoot it from the outside. We need sharp shooters more than anything else. Dude has an infectious personality, but there's a few red flags. That weight worries me whats going to happen 5 years from now...is he going to turn into mike sweetney?At the moment, I would pass on Zion.
Mike Sweetney was like a nice soft comfortable couch. Zion is a friggin tank. No comparison at all.
PresIke wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:Nalod wrote:Zion is not a finished product and no doubt will have to learn to play with less emotion and tone it down. he contests a lot of shots and might damn well kill himself trying in college.
kid does not look fat to me. He is a lot bigger than Lebron was at the same age. Im not sure we have seen this before. The comps are closer to Barkley but more everything.
I'd be concerned about him getting too big but does he love the game and keep himself in tune year round?
I have never seen a kid this big move like that.Yeah, he’s going to need a consistent mid range and 3 point shot if he wants to be the threat he is right now. I think he will develop that if he isn’t already.
He's a very unique player.
I know Barkely is often a comparison I hear, but I think a lot about LJ pre-back injury when he was Grandmama.
That being said, Zion is even more athletic and wider. He also has very good footwork, which LJ also had in his game or at least added.
He needs a jump shot, but you'd be fool not to take him at #1.
I've been saying he looks like college LJ too! The only negative to that is that eventually that style of play wore LJ's body down. Even then he was still a damn good player.
We also need to consider team fit; is KP a 5 or a 4 and what's the net effect if he's best at 4 but you shift him to 5
I just hope we continue with the roll; I am very happy with how they drafted this year
martin wrote:meloshouldgo wrote:Cartman718 wrote:martin wrote:Cartman718 wrote:Zion relies on his athleticism a bit too much in games. On one hand, glad to see he likes mixing it up in the paint, but on the other hand...when are we ever going to play him at PF at that height. He needs to be able to really shoot it from the outside. We need sharp shooters more than anything else. Dude has an infectious personality, but there's a few red flags. That weight worries me whats going to happen 5 years from now...is he going to turn into mike sweetney?At the moment, I would pass on Zion.
Said no one ever, except you
lol ok we'll see...
If we were picking first. I would still consider Barrett first. We need a "safe" pick just to balance out and diversify our investments on the last three first round picks.
Said no one ever, except you
Story of my life, bro
PresIke wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:Cartman718 wrote:martin wrote:Cartman718 wrote:Zion relies on his athleticism a bit too much in games. On one hand, glad to see he likes mixing it up in the paint, but on the other hand...when are we ever going to play him at PF at that height. He needs to be able to really shoot it from the outside. We need sharp shooters more than anything else. Dude has an infectious personality, but there's a few red flags. That weight worries me whats going to happen 5 years from now...is he going to turn into mike sweetney?At the moment, I would pass on Zion.
Said no one ever, except you
lol ok we'll see...
Except this isn’t “baby-fat” (I hate that term) Sweetney. Zion is built like LeBron, meaning he is ripped. His motor is high and he is VERY skilled. If you think Barrett is a better player and will always be, then I understand that view but we’ll have to agree to disagree. Otherwise, we have to pray to dear God we win the lotto so that we even have a chance ar Zion. Our chances aren’t good regardless. They meant business when they discouraged tanking with the new lotto format.
Zion's passing and ball handling are very underrated. He relies too much on athleticism? So do most star players in this league. Don't get me wrong, I like Barret too. But Zion is CLEARLY the top pick.
Indeed.
He does take risks trying to make steals - so shows the scouting videos as well - and I have seen him disappear, as he doesn't really have a reliable go-to game with the ball in his hands outside of the paint, and is a poor FT shooter, but shooting can be learned.
I think the weight questions are not something to be ignored, but nowadays there is so much more known about diet/training that I think it will be fine as long as he aims to live a fit and healthy lifestyle.
As for his height, will it matter? He has incredible strength, great reach plus I think the most otherworldly hops I've ever seen that means he doesn't really need height.
However, the chances we land him are slim. Even if we are in the top 2. Everyone has a bad chance, but that's why we are more likely to not get him and I think we have to expect that reality.
The draft lottery is closer to a real lottery with the new chances, and the worse part is that it also means a greater chance of dropping quite far down as well.
It's not the weight itself that I worry about. It's the risk of injury because of it.
Allanfan20 wrote:I don’t care that he twisted his ankle. I am not convinced by Ja so far. He forces the issue on every play and he does not have a consistent jumper to make his driving game easier. As of now, I still have Barrett at number 2 and I’m not really a huge RJ fan so far.
Man, the draft is tough this year- everyone has big question marks, after Zion it's all up in the air.
Allanfan20 wrote:I don’t care that he twisted his ankle. I am not convinced by Ja so far. He forces the issue on every play and he does not have a consistent jumper to make his driving game easier. As of now, I still have Barrett at number 2 and I’m not really a huge RJ fan so far.
It's our school basketball system that keeps producing ball hogging shoot first guards. And it just carries over to the NBA
TripleThreat wrote:
Here's what my observation, training and experience with young prospects tells meA) Any weight problem tends to bring questions if the prospect has a drinking problem. Not saying this is always the case, but the question will tend to pop up privately.
B) Weight problems tend to spiral out of control in the offseason. In season, with regular season grind and simply the wear of travel, practice, games, etc, it's easier to manage.
C) If the Knicks win the draft lottery ( unlikely but let's roll with it for the sake of discussion), they should take Zion for value but if they aren't comfortable with him and his weight issues and other issues like tradeoffs, they should consider trading him.
It comes down to this - Do you believe in the player? If you don't, then you seek to find max value for that specific draft slot. Just like the Celtics were not sold on Fultz. But they recognized at the time, he had the most value on the board and traded the slot away.
A lot of the stuff he's doing in college games won't translate to the pro level. He very high risk but also very high reward.
The issue is if a trade is even there to make. It's not that easier to trade the first overall pick and have it work as a fit for both teams involved.
Zion has been fairly consistent in his size and growth since I started watching his
YouTube clips during his junior year. Drinking could be an issue. It's usually an issue for many college freshman. But his body fat has looked consistent. As for the other points, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If it's True Young/Luka situation, I have no real problem with in theory. I would have kept Luka for myself, but many draft scouts had questions about his upside. I'm not really sold on anyone else in this draft class, to consider such a move if we have the first pick. That opinion could change now that we're getting into the heart of the college season.