I've been patient for a while with Fiz,
I like how he's challenging young players to work hard in practice and earn PT.
But damn does his offense make Hornachek's look like gold.
I wasn't a big Horny fan, but you saw consistency in what he ran and you saw player movement and some motion in the offense.
Talent is an issue with this group, without question.
I am not expecting more wins or some sort of playoff run.
However so many games in, dude should have these players doing better.
Horny was SUCH a disappointment in his offense. People's memory is fleeting. Yeah, lets bring back Jack.
He doesn't have the right players to run his offense,, and you have a bunch of Low IQ players who fall back into to bad habits.
Some of you keep thinking that if you let young players play through their mistakes they will get better, that works for a few possessions, not a game after game
BigRedDog wrote:Horny was SUCH a disappointment in his offense. People's memory is fleeting. Yeah, lets bring back Jack.
This.
It's this positionless basketball too many guys have the green light to hoist away.
It was a shytty game by a young team beset with injuries.
More damning as a team we are playing worse defense than hornaceks’s. Let that sink in
We have added Mitch Vonleh Dotson (mostly a DNP last year) and trier (who doesn’t suck) AND Timmy is taking charges and yet we’re worse
I blame it more on the personnel but too much old school offensive play. We have Kanter playing one-on-one in the post as everyone stands around and Mudiay living in the mid-range. Frank and Burke also live in the midrange these days and Dotson is the king of the long 2. Fiz needs to fix this, i am sick of seeing our offense revolve around contested midrange shots. Either shoot the 3 or attack hard.
Knixkik wrote:I blame it more on the personnel but too much old school offensive play. We have Kanter playing one-on-one in the post as everyone stands around and Mudiay living in the mid-range. Frank and Burke also live in the midrange these days and Dotson is the king of the long 2. Fiz needs to fix this, i am sick of seeing our offense revolve around contested midrange shots. Either shoot the 3 or attack hard.
the only things we're developing are (1) bad habits and (2) perhaps the next contract price for players like Vonleh and Mudiay (see, e.g., Landry Fields and Langston Galloway; maybe they'll send us a thank you note for giving them a platform to develop and then showcase their game)
While the record speaks for itself it might offer some comfort that few of the loses were blowouts.
That matters. Last night we bring a rusty Lance and Burke in. Frank looks more anemic since his ankle sprain the other night. Kanter is not a player that fits in most teams "Flow". The ball stops with him. He is very good at what he does on the offensive end. Missing was Robinson, Dotson, Trier, and Hardaway. Of couse KP too!! That matters.
Im not happy. It was bad. But given the circumstances and understand in a 82 game season there will be some bad ones. Even at home and against teams with worse records. Suns have now won 3 straight. Its the NBA. It happens.
Knicks are not a good team. Bad nights are magnified.
Nalod wrote:While the record speaks for itself it might offer some comfort that few of the loses were blowouts.
That matters. Last night we bring a rusty Lance and Burke in. Frank looks more anemic since his ankle sprain the other night. Kanter is not a player that fits in most teams "Flow". The ball stops with him. He is very good at what he does on the offensive end. Missing was Robinson, Dotson, Trier, and Hardaway. Of couse KP too!! That matters.
Im not happy. It was bad. But given the circumstances and understand in a 82 game season there will be some bad ones. Even at home and against teams with worse records. Suns have now won 3 straight. Its the NBA. It happens.
Knicks are not a good team. Bad nights are magnified.
All true, but I am still of the mindset that getting Zion or Barrett is the best outcome of this year. Either will be franchise-changing pickups in the draft. Keep developing our yoots this year, protect KP, and optimize our chances for the top 2 picks. THOSE are the only objectives I care about.
Zion in NYC...FTW!!!!!!
Chandler wrote:Knixkik wrote:I blame it more on the personnel but too much old school offensive play. We have Kanter playing one-on-one in the post as everyone stands around and Mudiay living in the mid-range. Frank and Burke also live in the midrange these days and Dotson is the king of the long 2. Fiz needs to fix this, i am sick of seeing our offense revolve around contested midrange shots. Either shoot the 3 or attack hard.
the only things we're developing are (1) bad habits and (2) perhaps the next contract price for players like Vonleh and Mudiay (see, e.g., Landry Fields and Langston Galloway; maybe they'll send us a thank you note for giving them a platform to develop and then showcase their game)
I'll stay away from Mudiay. I want a PG who can run an offense. I know Mudiay looks decent scoring the ball, but his style a play isn't going to help us become a playoff team. Vonleh i like and am open to resigning, because i believe he fits next to Porzingis nicely.
Chandler wrote:More damning as a team we are playing worse defense than hornaceks’s. Let that sink in
We have added Mitch Vonleh Dotson (mostly a DNP last year) and trier (who doesn’t suck) AND Timmy is taking charges and yet we’re worse
+1
Fiz's defense is what sucks worse than his O, although that's also an indicator of his personnel. Mitch is a foul machine, Dotson and Trier are hurt, and there was a stat piece not too long ago that showed Timmy's actually worse defensively than Melo. Kanter's just absolutely pathetic on D. Mix in rusty Lee, Lance and shoot first, second and third Burke. That leaves Frankie on a bad ankle holding the bag.
Hello 41-17 third quarter. That's not your standard NBA run, that's the Great Depression.
This dam has too many damn holes, indeed.
Moonangie wrote:Nalod wrote:While the record speaks for itself it might offer some comfort that few of the loses were blowouts.
That matters. Last night we bring a rusty Lance and Burke in. Frank looks more anemic since his ankle sprain the other night. Kanter is not a player that fits in most teams "Flow". The ball stops with him. He is very good at what he does on the offensive end. Missing was Robinson, Dotson, Trier, and Hardaway. Of couse KP too!! That matters.
Im not happy. It was bad. But given the circumstances and understand in a 82 game season there will be some bad ones. Even at home and against teams with worse records. Suns have now won 3 straight. Its the NBA. It happens.
Knicks are not a good team. Bad nights are magnified.
All true, but I am still of the mindset that getting Zion or Barrett is the best outcome of this year. Either will be franchise-changing pickups in the draft. Keep developing our yoots this year, protect KP, and optimize our chances for the top 2 picks. THOSE are the only objectives I care about.
Zion in NYC...FTW!!!!!!
Tanks are bad. Bad for morale, bad for "Habits", etc. I agree with you. Im not sure we are tanking.
Im of the mindset that a team can be young, lose and learn. It can be year to year. it can't be with divas and guys playing for contract and contract only. JR smith was great on contract years. We do have guys fighting for their careers and even if losing they are upping their games. Not all players mind you. Mario seems to be given the task of rounding his game out and its not apparent yet. we can go thru player by player and the true "Grade" is at seasons end.
Enes is a good study because with him we lose. With Mitch we lose but he grows and learns. Both are loses. Can a coach keep his team and his voice during a "rebuilding year". I think most of us are not in agreement and think no team should tank. I agree, but I think we can agree on if possible you do it with purpose. This team is not getting blown out game after game. So far I think Fiz is keeping it together despite the losing. The "Fiz Kids" on probation such as Burke, Mario, Mudiay, and Vonleh seem to know that if the do their job things will fall into place. Its a lot of pressure. Frank, Robinson, Knox and now Trier have time to play the right way and the team can be a bit patient with them. Enes is the only guy playing for a big payday. His defense and offensive flow is not good but he has the ability to be a double/double machine which makes him counter productive MAYBE.
The art of the tank. No two are the same yet its one word.
My take so far with 32 games in the book...the season is over. After watching all games and trying to be patient here's why:
1. We don't have shooters...good shooters don't miss the rim entirely and hit backboard only or throw up a UFO. Too many of those.
2. Lack of talent...Take away our lack of good shooters we have below average post players.
3. Coaching...This might be a classic example of the Peter Principle...Great assistant but not HC material. Fitz might be a nice guy but his sub patters and variety of lines up are not good for consistency. Plays too many players... pick your best 8 and go with them unless forced by injuries or fouls.
I see nothing in the near future that can change any of these which brings me to the conclusion there are many bad years ahead.
ccch wrote:My take so far with 32 games in the book...the season is over. After watching all games and trying to be patient here's why:1. We don't have shooters...good shooters don't miss the rim entirely and hit backboard only or throw up a UFO. Too many of those.
2. Lack of talent...Take away our lack of good shooters we have below average post players.
3. Coaching...This might be a classic example of the Peter Principle...Great assistant but not HC material. Fitz might be a nice guy but his sub patters and variety of lines up are not good for consistency. Plays too many players... pick your best 8 and go with them unless forced by injuries or fouls.
I see nothing in the near future that can change any of these which brings me to the conclusion there are many bad years ahead.
You are discounting KP and his impact as well as growth and/or FA signings. But to each his own
I like the Dotson & Trier rotation at SG. Frank needs to show that he can be the backup PG option going forward if not starter quality. Knox looks like the SF of the future though he needs to round out his game some more. KP clearly the PF/C. Having him back will take a ton of pressure off Mitch to be an immediate impact center.
If Zion is drafted that would probably make Vonleh expendable in favor Mudiay for the starting PG spot at mid level. If Ja Morant is drafted then Mudiay would probably be expendable and Vonleh would be kept at mid level.
RJ Barrett would sure up the forward rotation allowing Knox to slide between forward spots.
The team will make a power play to make the playoffs next season. The draft will determine the manuevers in terms of trades and FA signings. But we knew all this going in.
CrushAlot wrote:BigRedDog wrote:Horny was SUCH a disappointment in his offense. People's memory is fleeting. Yeah, lets bring back Jack.
This.
That really isn't on Hornacek. That was on Mills, who splurged on THJ and didn't leave us enough cap space to bring in a veteran PG. The offense does suck now and a big reason is that we've haven't settled in on rotation. I'm hopeful that changes now.
BigDaddyG wrote:CrushAlot wrote:BigRedDog wrote:Horny was SUCH a disappointment in his offense. People's memory is fleeting. Yeah, lets bring back Jack.
This.
That really isn't on Hornacek. That was on Mills, who splurged on THJ and didn't leave us enough cap space to bring in a veteran PG. The offense does suck now and a big reason is that we've haven't settled in on rotation. I'm hopeful that changes now.
we had 4 choicie...Rose, rondo, jack, collison,
we chose baker and jack
jrodmc wrote:Chandler wrote:More damning as a team we are playing worse defense than hornaceks’s. Let that sink in
We have added Mitch Vonleh Dotson (mostly a DNP last year) and trier (who doesn’t suck) AND Timmy is taking charges and yet we’re worse
+1
Fiz's defense is what sucks worse than his O, although that's also an indicator of his personnel. Mitch is a foul machine, Dotson and Trier are hurt, and there was a stat piece not too long ago that showed Timmy's actually worse defensively than Melo. Kanter's just absolutely pathetic on D. Mix in rusty Lee, Lance and shoot first, second and third Burke. That leaves Frankie on a bad ankle holding the bag. Hello 41-17 third quarter. That's not your standard NBA run, that's the Great Depression.
This dam has too many damn holes, indeed.
Saw something that the Suns ran PnR every time on Kanter. That's why I think Fizz was playing zone. Don't let him near the perimeter. Would be a great strategy except for the fact that teams prefer taking uncontested 3 point shots which isn't that hard against a zone
As I've said before I'd find losing more palatable if we were playing the right way. Lately you see it on this board that we equate "the right way" with hustle and effort. ANd while it is definitely a positive to see hustle and effort (and Fizz gets credit for that) it is not enough.
I hope this was some ad hoc abomination because they were so short on man power
We need to dump Kanter and Lee for essentially anything we can get at this point. AT least Kornet can stretch the floor and move his feet a little. There is no way Kanter is on our future so why plan a D or O around him or deal with his tweets when he's on the pine
Can we say that anyone on this team actually makes his teammates better? Is it too old-fashioned to want that, e.g., Rondo without the drama
