Frank is a shooting guard who can’t shoot. While he’s super young with upside, I say we trade him now along with C.Lee to OKC for Andre Roberson, Alex Abrines & a 1st round pick.
Roberson has another year like Lee but 3 million cheaper, in his 20s still, and will be ready to play at the end of this season around the same time that KP is supposed to come back. Roberson also played with KD in OKC who we need to go all in for in the offseason.
Abrines is an expiring contract. The first rounder can hopefully at least be a rotation player.
This might be the best trade we get at the moment bc C.Lee & Frankie are not really playing for us but they are 2 players OKC can use.
We get extra cap space, a 1st rounder, and a solid defensive wing for next season that knows KD well.
So your proposal is to trade one elite defender that can't shoot for another older and injuried elite defender that can't shoot? Because we're not getting a first round pick in this trade since the Thunder are already out two first rounders (for the Schroeder trade and I believe the Jerami Grant trade).
If we want to get rid of Courtney Lee, I see the Pelicans having interest. They have the Wesley Johnson expirer and have several minimum salary players (e.g. Cheik Diallo, Ian Clarm) that could get the trade done and save us about $4 million immediately.
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tra...
NardDogNation wrote:So your proposal is to trade one elite defender that can't shoot for another older and injuried elite defender that can't shoot? Because we're not getting a first round pick in this trade since the Thunder are already out two first rounders (for the Schroeder trade and I believe the Jerami Grant trade).
OKC gave up a 2022 1st rounder in the Schroeder trade. Not sure about Jerami Grant but see that OKC has their own 2019 1st rounder.
The injured player we would get is not needed at the moment. What we need is cap space and another draft pick.
Before trading Frank I would like to see he & Trier in the same backcourt; with Trier running the point.
These posts should all be placed under a sticky entitled "More things that cannot and will not happen...."
TLover wrote:NardDogNation wrote:So your proposal is to trade one elite defender that can't shoot for another older and injuried elite defender that can't shoot? Because we're not getting a first round pick in this trade since the Thunder are already out two first rounders (for the Schroeder trade and I believe the Jerami Grant trade).
OKC gave up a 2022 1st rounder in the Schroeder trade. Not sure about Jerami Grant but see that OKC has their own 2019 1st rounder.
The injured player we would get is not needed at the moment. What we need is cap space and another draft pick.
Before trading Frank I would like to see he & Trier in the same backcourt; with Trier running the point.
I was right, they owe a top 20 protected first rounder to the Sixers for the Grant trade...
https://www.prosportstransactions.com/ba...
Those circumstances complicate the inclusion of any first round picks moving forward for them because of the Stepien Rule (can't trade first round picks in consecutive years or beyond 7 years).
I still don't get the appeal of Roberson at the expense of Ntilikina. I think Ntilikina will be the superior player and that the cap space can be created through other, less taxing means. Besides, are we even sure we'll need the cap space this offseason?
NardDogNation wrote:TLover wrote:NardDogNation wrote:So your proposal is to trade one elite defender that can't shoot for another older and injuried elite defender that can't shoot? Because we're not getting a first round pick in this trade since the Thunder are already out two first rounders (for the Schroeder trade and I believe the Jerami Grant trade).
OKC gave up a 2022 1st rounder in the Schroeder trade. Not sure about Jerami Grant but see that OKC has their own 2019 1st rounder.
The injured player we would get is not needed at the moment. What we need is cap space and another draft pick.
Before trading Frank I would like to see he & Trier in the same backcourt; with Trier running the point.
I was right, they owe a top 20 protected first rounder to the Sixers for the Grant trade...
https://www.prosportstransactions.com/ba...
Those circumstances complicate the inclusion of any first round picks moving forward for them because of the Stepien Rule (can't trade first round picks in consecutive years or beyond 7 years).
I still don't get the appeal of Roberson at the expense of Ntilikina. I think Ntilikina will be the superior player and that the cap space can be created through other, less taxing means. Besides, are we even sure we'll need the cap space this offseason?
Look at it as Roberson for Lee than for Ntlinkina.
We get a younger player similar to Lee for one more season (like Lee) at 3 million less, who played with KD. We are really trading Frank for a 1st rounder & 3 million in cap space.
I’m all for keeping Frank if we pair him with a scoring PG. Always thought he & Burke complemented each other. Hence why I think Trier & Frank in the backcourt could work.
I’m not sure as a fan I buy into this “Trade while high/low” thing as if scouts/GM’s somehow think along the same ways. A fan calling for a trade of two players who just DNP and a loss is a point bought from frustration. I get it. This team is not very good.
A team that gets frank has to look at it as a longer term value proposition of potential. Is it that frank is physically not up to the task and if so what is the timeline? If so, why give up on him then and get little back?
Cap space is a open concept that has no definite return other than hope. Courtney Lee is a good player with a decent contract. While we look for improvements we might have to consider this man his been helping keep the locker room together and bringing his “veteran leadership” to the team.
It’s not pretty and a loss is a loss but this could be much worse if Fiz loses his team.
You don't make a trade like this unless its the off season and Perry already has verbal agreements with a worthy FA. And he needs that cap space to finalize the deal. You don't ship off prospects IN HOPE that you are able to sign someone.
Frank is very similar to Noah Vonleh as a prospect. These are valuable pieces to have on your team after they get seasoning.
TLover wrote:NardDogNation wrote:TLover wrote:NardDogNation wrote:So your proposal is to trade one elite defender that can't shoot for another older and injuried elite defender that can't shoot? Because we're not getting a first round pick in this trade since the Thunder are already out two first rounders (for the Schroeder trade and I believe the Jerami Grant trade).
OKC gave up a 2022 1st rounder in the Schroeder trade. Not sure about Jerami Grant but see that OKC has their own 2019 1st rounder.
The injured player we would get is not needed at the moment. What we need is cap space and another draft pick.
Before trading Frank I would like to see he & Trier in the same backcourt; with Trier running the point.
I was right, they owe a top 20 protected first rounder to the Sixers for the Grant trade...
https://www.prosportstransactions.com/ba...
Those circumstances complicate the inclusion of any first round picks moving forward for them because of the Stepien Rule (can't trade first round picks in consecutive years or beyond 7 years).
I still don't get the appeal of Roberson at the expense of Ntilikina. I think Ntilikina will be the superior player and that the cap space can be created through other, less taxing means. Besides, are we even sure we'll need the cap space this offseason?
Look at it as Roberson for Lee than for Ntlinkina.
We get a younger player similar to Lee for one more season (like Lee) at 3 million less, who played with KD. We are really trading Frank for a 1st rounder & 3 million in cap space.
I’m all for keeping Frank if we pair him with a scoring PG. Always thought he & Burke complemented each other. Hence why I think Trier & Frank in the backcourt could work.
Didn't you read his post? They can't trade their 2019 1st round pick because they've already traded their 2020 and 2022 1st round picks and you can't trade 1st round picks in consecutive years.
the time to have traded him would have been when other tams thought Frank had some value
SupremeCommander wrote:the time to have traded him would have been when other tams thought Frank had some value
And it is great that he has no value now.
His value will be clear in 2-3 years... so we can avoid pulling our hair from the a..ss of frustration that we give up on him early.
Mudiay is 22. He is in his 4th year in the league and ONLY now is showing signs of becoming a player who can be counted on.
Frank is 20. He does a lot well. His shot is not ugly He he has good form. He is 90% from the line. He can shoot. He lacks confidence. He will get there.
GIVE FRANK TIME!! Trust the process.
In typical knicks (FO) fashion, they will wait until their players value is at rock bottom, then snag a 2nd rnd pick for him. He's not worth a 1rst round pick, and certainly not a lottery pick.. I would attach frank to any trade that gets LEE off the books
arkrud wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:the time to have traded him would have been when other tams thought Frank had some value
And it is great that he has no value now.
His value will be clear in 2-3 years... so we can avoid pulling our hair from the a..ss of frustration that we give up on him early.
Who says he has no value now? One of us? We don't know spit of what is the real deal with frank or his trade value.
And what do you get in return even if his value is higher? another pick? Won't be top 10.
Another underperforming rookie?
Give him away so we can move Lee for cap space? what doe we do with that? If your a typical knick fan we only going to do "Something stupid and over pay".......So isn't the point do something different than previous Knick front offices would do? What Dolan would insist we do?
Or do the opposite?
Is Frank really a lost cause? if he is, then his value is low. If he isn't, someone will try to steal him.
And what about just being patient? This year is lost. CLee is still a good player and will be expiring next season. No trade with Clee or Frank is going to turn this season around.
There is no quick fix. To do so compounds our problems down the road.
We tore it down. It hurts.
Even Derrick Rose needed more time!!!
GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Mudiay is 22. He is in his 4th year in the league and ONLY now is showing signs of becoming a player who can be counted on.Frank is 20. He does a lot well. His shot is not ugly He he has good form. He is 90% from the line. He can shoot. He lacks confidence. He will get there.
GIVE FRANK TIME!! Trust the process.
He is a really high character kid that works really hard as well. I think he gets this year and probably until the '19 trade deadline before the team starts looking to trade him/move on from him.
knicks1248 wrote:In typical knicks (FO) fashion, they will wait until their players value is at rock bottom, then snag a 2nd rnd pick for him. He's not worth a 1rst round pick, and certainly not a lottery pick.. I would attach frank to any trade that gets LEE off the books
New front office. I haven't seen them do anything really stupid since Perry took over. Trades I recall are the Willy trade and Mudiay trade.
knicks1248 wrote:In typical knicks (FO) fashion, they will wait until their players value is at rock bottom, then snag a 2nd rnd pick for him. He's not worth a 1rst round pick, and certainly not a lottery pick.. I would attach frank to any trade that gets LEE off the books
and yet you suggest the very thing?
Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:In typical knicks (FO) fashion, they will wait until their players value is at rock bottom, then snag a 2nd rnd pick for him. He's not worth a 1rst round pick, and certainly not a lottery pick.. I would attach frank to any trade that gets LEE off the books
and yet you suggest the very thing?
Its hilarious. He says Frank stinks yet wants to trade him while he has value
Nalod wrote:arkrud wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:the time to have traded him would have been when other tams thought Frank had some value
And it is great that he has no value now.
His value will be clear in 2-3 years... so we can avoid pulling our hair from the a..ss of frustration that we give up on him early.
Who says he has no value now? One of us? We don't know spit of what is the real deal with frank or his trade value.
And what do you get in return even if his value is higher? another pick? Won't be top 10.
Another underperforming rookie?
Give him away so we can move Lee for cap space? what doe we do with that? If your a typical knick fan we only going to do "Something stupid and over pay".......So isn't the point do something different than previous Knick front offices would do? What Dolan would insist we do?
Or do the opposite?
Is Frank really a lost cause? if he is, then his value is low. If he isn't, someone will try to steal him.
And what about just being patient? This year is lost. CLee is still a good player and will be expiring next season. No trade with Clee or Frank is going to turn this season around.
There is no quick fix. To do so compounds our problems down the road.
We tore it down. It hurts.
Even Derrick Rose needed more time!!!
of course Frank has value but I'm thinking it's more like a top 55 protected second rounder through the next 10 years
maybe you agree or maybe you disagree
but I don't think anyone disagrees that Franks value is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less than lotto pick
that's why the Knicks should probably keep him. I think at this point he is a reasonably priced rotation piece that hopefully puts it together before his rookie contrat runs out
CrushAlot wrote:knicks1248 wrote:In typical knicks (FO) fashion, they will wait until their players value is at rock bottom, then snag a 2nd rnd pick for him. He's not worth a 1rst round pick, and certainly not a lottery pick.. I would attach frank to any trade that gets LEE off the books
New front office. I haven't seen them do anything really stupid since Perry took over. Trades I recall are the Willy trade and Mudiay trade.
They should have traded willy in the summer if they knew he wasn't in the rotation, not wait until he wanted out. Perry did trade melo, but the damage was pretty much done by phil, then mills continued you on with it before perry came in and saved him from the rockets potential trade.
If frank finishes the season like he's playing now, there's no way you don't upgrade his position, and that would leave him pretty much out the rotation, almost like Trier pushing Baker out..
It's up to frank to turned into a GYM rat and get his game up, because there are so many players better than him now, and coming into the league..we already have a glut at the guard position..
The knicks can turn around and sign middleton and brogdon, keep mudiay and THJ, knox at SF..where's franks mins coming from..
I said the same thing about baker during SL when trier entered the picture
