Knicks · OT: What Happens If the Celtics Don't Get Anthony Davis? (page 1)

They are teeming with talent and won't have any worthy players left to pool those assets for. So what do they do?

I think there is a 50-50 shot they re-sign Kyrie Irving and if they do, that effectively leaves them with two max contracts (including Gordon Hayward). Should they re-sign Al Horford to market value, both he AND Marcus Smart would likely combine to equal a max contract as well with Jayson Tatum's max coming due, too. Considering how punitive the luxury tax has become, there is no viable path for the Celtics to afford the rough equivalent of those 4 max contracts and the 10 roster spots left to fill.

That conundrum makes me wonder what they intend to do with Jaylen Brown and (to a lesser extent) Terry Rozier. Will they actually allow those guys to get to free agency? If so, the cap space we really should be saving ourselves for are the Celtics' castaways, while fleshing out the rest of our roster via the draft.

What do you guys think?

Ainge's magic formula is to trade the most likely damaged goods for picks. Then sign FAs based on the reputation of the team to contend. They also draft impeccably.

Ainge would trade his mother.

fwk00 wrote:Ainge's magic formula is to trade the most likely damaged goods for picks. Then sign FAs based on the reputation of the team to contend. They also draft impeccably.

Ainge would trade his mother.

But the depth on their team is helping to depreciate the value of those players. Those draft picks won't be as good as they should be. What do they do then?

And Ainge's draft history is checkered. Everyone remembers Jayson Tatum but people conveniently forget the James Young, Gershon Yabulsala, RJ Hunter's of yesteryear.

Ainge's secret is the volume of draft picks he accumulates. You need only one hit a year of the three, four, or five you've stashed away.

Key is to drafting is a game not of percentages but frequency. If you only hit 40% of your picks make sure you have a lot of them. Teams whiff on picks, even the best evaluation of talent does.

Nalod wrote:Key is to drafting is a game not of percentages but frequency. If you only hit 40% of your picks make sure you have a lot of them. Teams whiff on picks, even the best evaluation of talent does.

I wholeheartedly agree with that point. It's what I've advocated the Knicks do for a decade with the vast resources they have at their disposal but that is never going to happen. We're a micowave culture and think success can happen overnight through (enter impending free agent susperstar here) every year.

That being said, let's not pretend that Ainge is Sam Presti, Bob Meyers, or the Spurs and is getting value across the draft. Save Terry Rozier, his only draft picks of significance have been high lottery picks courtesy of Billy King. The balance haven't/won't even made/make it past their rookie contracts, which isn't exactly a success story.

...the point is that the Celtics might be forced to surrender some of the current talent on their roster and we should position ourselves to get them. I still think Jaylen Brown is a star in this league with the right opportunity despite a real-plus/minus close to the bottom of the league. If we're patient, can we realistically wait for him to become a free agent and make him an offer the Celtics can't match?

If you're the Knicks, would you give away our pick this year OR heavily protected future picks for those Celtic stragglers?

I think that Hayward deal may come back to haunt them a little bit. A lot of guys need to be paid. Kyrie returning at the max might not be a foregone conclusion.

NardDogNation wrote:...the point is that the Celtics might be forced to surrender some of the current talent on their roster and we should position ourselves to get them. I still think Jaylen Brown is a star in this league with the right opportunity despite a real-plus/minus close to the bottom of the league. If we're patient, can we realistically wait for him to become a free agent and make him an offer the Celtics can't match?

This is similar to Frank situation.
But we can be patient with Frank like to forever but Celts are already up to roster decisions.
So Jaylen Brown may be the victim of this.

Knixkik wrote:I think that Hayward deal may come back to haunt them a little bit. A lot of guys need to be paid. Kyrie returning at the max might not be a foregone conclusion.

If they are hunting for the chip they should let Kyrie go.
The max to him will be the end of their championship plan.
But I hope they will be stupid enough to give him the max and go down in flames.

they'll get him. If he's walking away, how do you say no to something like Terry Rozier and Jaylen Brown?

Celtics have possibly 4 1st rnd picks this year with 2 of them possible lottery picks.

SupremeCommander wrote:they'll get him. If he's walking away, how do you say no to something like Terry Rozier and Jaylen Brown?

The Lakers with Brandon Ingram and assets say "hello"

NardDogNation wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:they'll get him. If he's walking away, how do you say no to something like Terry Rozier and Jaylen Brown?

The Laker and Brandon Ingram and assets say "hello"

I think Tatum would be included. Also, who do the Lakers really have? I don't think Ingram is that highly regarded anymore. Not like Tatum at least. Kuzma is good but that's really all they have right now.

NardDogNation wrote:...the point is that the Celtics might be forced to surrender some of the current talent on their roster and we should position ourselves to get them. I still think Jaylen Brown is a star in this league with the right opportunity despite a real-plus/minus close to the bottom of the league. If we're patient, can we realistically wait for him to become a free agent and make him an offer the Celtics can't match?

Nah I wouldn't give up a pick for Rozier or Brown at the moment. I don't feel we should look to move future picks until after or during the draft. With the target of adding a Zion, Barrett, Morant in the draft. Then using the future pick to land another piece if Hardaway can be packaged in that deal. Then we preserve enough cap to add a FA as well. Meaning top 3 pick, trade for proven player, and FA signing.

Knixkik wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:they'll get him. If he's walking away, how do you say no to something like Terry Rozier and Jaylen Brown?

The Laker and Brandon Ingram and assets say "hello"

I think Tatum would be included. Also, who do the Lakers really have? I don't think Ingram is that highly regarded anymore. Not like Tatum at least. Kuzma is good but that's really all they have right now.

I think the situation is a little more complex. I agree that the Celtics have more to offer BUT it comes down to where Anthony Davis wants to re-sign. And I personally don't think it's a coincidence he's signed with Rich Paul AFTER LeBron went to L.A. or have publicized meeting with each other in public. So do the Celtics include Tatum if Davis is committed to going to LAL?

And if the Pelicans decide to move him this season, the Celtics could not acquire him in a deal without finding a destination for Kyrie Irving? Would Davis want to be there without Kyrie? Doubtful. All these converging factors make the Lakers the most likely destination in my opinion. I think Ball and Ingram gets the deal done.

newyorknewyork wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:...the point is that the Celtics might be forced to surrender some of the current talent on their roster and we should position ourselves to get them. I still think Jaylen Brown is a star in this league with the right opportunity despite a real-plus/minus close to the bottom of the league. If we're patient, can we realistically wait for him to become a free agent and make him an offer the Celtics can't match?

Nah I wouldn't give up a pick for Rozier or Brown at the moment. I don't feel we should look to move future picks until after or during the draft. With the target of adding a Zion, Barrett, Morant in the draft. Then using the future pick to land another piece if Hardaway can be packaged in that deal. Then we preserve enough cap to add a FA as well. Meaning top 3 pick, trade for proven player, and FA signing.

I tend to be a hardliner when it comes to giving up picks. We've had so many boneheaded decisions involving them that we could have built and re-built a perennial playoff team had we just kept them in the first place. But if I could get Terry Rozier and Jaylen Brown for our pick this year, I'd definitely do it. Outside of Zion, you're basically hoping the rest of the draft could develop what a Jaylen Brown already is. And then there is the obvious fact that both players better fit the timeline of Kristaps Porzingis, especially if Kevin Durant is really in play. Whatever the case, those two would round out our starting lineup nicely and we would still have the ability to add talent around them....

G: Terry Rozier
G: Frank Ntilikina
F: Jaylen Brown
F: Kevin Knox
C: Kristaps Porzingis

NardDogNation wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:...the point is that the Celtics might be forced to surrender some of the current talent on their roster and we should position ourselves to get them. I still think Jaylen Brown is a star in this league with the right opportunity despite a real-plus/minus close to the bottom of the league. If we're patient, can we realistically wait for him to become a free agent and make him an offer the Celtics can't match?

Nah I wouldn't give up a pick for Rozier or Brown at the moment. I don't feel we should look to move future picks until after or during the draft. With the target of adding a Zion, Barrett, Morant in the draft. Then using the future pick to land another piece if Hardaway can be packaged in that deal. Then we preserve enough cap to add a FA as well. Meaning top 3 pick, trade for proven player, and FA signing.

I tend to be a hardliner when it comes to giving up picks. We've had so many boneheaded decisions involving them that we could have built and re-built a perennial playoff team had we just kept them in the first place. But if I could get Terry Rozier and Jaylen Brown for our pick this year, I'd definitely do it. Outside of Zion, you're basically hoping the rest of the draft could develop what a Jaylen Brown already is. And then there is the obvious fact that both players better fit the timeline of Kristaps Porzingis, especially if Kevin Durant is really in play. Whatever the case, those two would round out our starting lineup nicely and we would still have the ability to add talent around them....

G: Terry Rozier
G: Frank Ntilikina
F: Jaylen Brown
F: Kevin Knox
C: Kristaps Porzingis

No way do I think this happens, don't think Ainge would do it but if I can't get Zion( esp) and probably Barrett, then I would definitely trade the #1 for Brown and Rozier. That is a steal. Like I said Boston probably has 4 #1 draft picks this year. They aren't looking to get another pick.

NardDogNation wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:...the point is that the Celtics might be forced to surrender some of the current talent on their roster and we should position ourselves to get them. I still think Jaylen Brown is a star in this league with the right opportunity despite a real-plus/minus close to the bottom of the league. If we're patient, can we realistically wait for him to become a free agent and make him an offer the Celtics can't match?

Nah I wouldn't give up a pick for Rozier or Brown at the moment. I don't feel we should look to move future picks until after or during the draft. With the target of adding a Zion, Barrett, Morant in the draft. Then using the future pick to land another piece if Hardaway can be packaged in that deal. Then we preserve enough cap to add a FA as well. Meaning top 3 pick, trade for proven player, and FA signing.

I tend to be a hardliner when it comes to giving up picks. We've had so many boneheaded decisions involving them that we could have built and re-built a perennial playoff team had we just kept them in the first place. But if I could get Terry Rozier and Jaylen Brown for our pick this year, I'd definitely do it. Outside of Zion, you're basically hoping the rest of the draft could develop what a Jaylen Brown already is. And then there is the obvious fact that both players better fit the timeline of Kristaps Porzingis, especially if Kevin Durant is really in play. Whatever the case, those two would round out our starting lineup nicely and we would still have the ability to add talent around them....

G: Terry Rozier
G: Frank Ntilikina
F: Jaylen Brown
F: Kevin Knox
C: Kristaps Porzingis

Not really high on Rozier, especially with his upcoming free agency. I do like Brown. Not sure I'd make that deal. I might consider it if a couple of Boston first rounders are tossed in lieu of Rozier and our pick is protected 1-7, or something like that.

NardDogNation wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:they'll get him. If he's walking away, how do you say no to something like Terry Rozier and Jaylen Brown?

The Laker and Brandon Ingram and assets say "hello"

I think Tatum would be included. Also, who do the Lakers really have? I don't think Ingram is that highly regarded anymore. Not like Tatum at least. Kuzma is good but that's really all they have right now.

I think the situation is a little more complex. I agree that the Celtics have more to offer BUT it comes down to where Anthony Davis wants to re-sign. And I personally don't think it's a coincidence he's signed with Rich Paul AFTER LeBron went to L.A. or have publicized meeting with each other in public. So do the Celtics include Tatum if Davis is committed to going to LAL?

And if the Pelicans decide to move him this season, the Celtics could not acquire him in a deal without finding a destination for Kyrie Irving? Would Davis want to be there without Kyrie? Doubtful. All these converging factors make the Lakers the most likely destination in my opinion. I think Ball and Ingram gets the deal done.

The Lakers got a soft pass for tampering with Paul George. While it's not publicly discussed, George could not sign with the Lakers without massive fallout. He could have in a legal sense, but the league would have basically hosed the Lakers worse than the Timberwolves got hosed for Joe Smith. Rob Pelinka was not traditionally groomed to be a GM, he is/was a former agent and apparently he cut the basic tampering issue over the line too many times. Everyone tampers, but there's an asshole way to do it and the league only ignores some kinds of tampering, not all.

What's going on with AD is open and "Fuck You And The Horse You Rode In On" type tampering. LBJ runs Klutch Sports. It's not some wild secret. Plenty of people in the league would just ignore it if it was handled softly. Instead LBJ is running that shit in people's faces. He's a player recruiting another player who is in the same agency, that he owns. In public. The owners have a massive problem with this. When a NBA team goes for sale, usually it's a team struggling. Rarely is it a large market team ( They had to railroad Sterling to get him out) New prospective owners aren't keen on paying a record price to know their new shiny small market team is going to get gifted a high lottery pick only to be a farm team for a larger market and have no chance to retain any elite drafted player.

No record sale price means no upticked valuation of all NBA teams as a whole. The Decision was horrible for the league. Increasing the value of one team, but gutting two others is not good business. Many teams in the league already have attendance problems ( Knicks are immune) and all this is not helping.

Pelicans don't like the Lakers assets. This is widely known around the league. Also they despise the open tampering. ( I can't blame them. LBJ is acting like a total asshole here. This is fucked up beyond all measure for NO as a franchise )

Do you know what the owners wouldn't stop talking about during the labor war right after The Decision? LBJ and Rich Paul ignored an NBA owner making a pitch so they could watch videos on Paul's phone right in front of the owner, his front office and denigrated that entire franchise. So the owners kept turning the screws on the players during the negotiations. But LBJ wasn't the only one, Biedrins, Eddy Curry, Rip Hamilton, Tracy McGrady, Baron Davis and others helped fuel the owners anger.

LBJ is literally the dumbest person in all of pro sports. He keeps doing shit that will end up inciting labor wars and getting the NBAPA fucked for generations to come. And everyone in the sports media has to bite their tongue and pretend he's some kind of genius. Jalen Rose had to look at a camera with a straight face and read the script saying everyone else in the NBA were playing checkers, but LBJ was playing chess. And he had to say it without laughing out loud. He just barely did it.

AD has two years left on his contract after this season, but that 2nd year is a player option. He also has a 15 percent trade kicker. LBJ has put NO in a position where they must save some kind of face, meaning any deal would need to gut the living fuck out of the Lakers roster. But this is what AD wants, to be repped by a guy who bought drugs with a fucking check. I'm sure some guys here have done some kind of drugs in their life at some point. How would you feel if your drug dealer asked for a check? How would he feel if you offered him a check? If you knew someone who paid for drugs with a check, would you think, this is a really smart ass motherfucker? Like the guy in Pulp Fiction who knew there was no Quarter Pounder in Amsterdam because of the metric system?

Playing chess, my ass.