Knicks · Your going to need to sacrifice draft picks to (page 1)

Since Mills is hell bent on not doing this (you saw that with noah) i don't really think we have a chance at anything worth while if we keep those guys on the books..Max guy is out the window

First of all, we haven't show case LEE much at all this season, so he's value is at an all time low.

THJ has value, but he was already severely overpaid, so who wants to add that kind of $$ on to their books for another yr.

I have to give a lot of credit to Donnie walsh, a real president with hella experience and great relationships throught the league

November 21, 2008: Jamal Crawford and Zach Randolph traded.

In keeping with his stated long-range plan, Walsh trades Jamal Crawford to Golden State for Al Harrington. Reportedly, Walsh tells Golden State GM Chris Mullin he can have his choice of Isiah-disaster players (The “Big Four” of Eddy Curry, Jared Jeffries, Zach Randolph, and Jamal Crawford) for disgruntled Warrior Al Harrington. Mullin chooses Crawford. Several hours later Walsh trades Randolph, along with Mardy Collins, for Ex-Knick Tim Thomas and Ex-basketball player Cuttino Mobley.

This represents the first major day in the life of Donnie Walsh as Knick president. It puts in motion a plan to target the free agent class of 2010 and from here there is no going back. At the time of the trade, the “Big Four” were all deemed “untradable”. Randolph and Crawford were, apparently, the least “untradable” as they were not only traded by the Knicks, but within a year, both were traded again. It should be noted that the rate of return diminished even further, as Jamal Crawford was traded for a package of Acie Law and retiree Speedy Claxton, and Zach Randolph was traded for fellow Knick outcast Quentin Richardson (more on him later). It should also be noted that Jamal Crawford went on to win 6th man of the year in 2010 and Zach Randolph went on to become an All Star with the Grizzlies.

These were some of the worse contracts imaginable..

It's also Note worthy the the FO said they were going to bypass any trades this season to focus on strictly developing their youth..mitch, trier, frank, knox, dotson....But if you think your going to trade lee or THR without coughing one of them up and/or picks..your tripping..

THIS!!
Why do this at all, but especially when we don't even know if anyone will want to sign with us. Imagine doing this and no max free agents end up signing? If we had a promise I would at least weigh the cost at the time, but no reason to do anything prematurely. Can't we also choose to stretch Lee if we had to?

knicks1248 wrote:Get lee and THJ of the books this season. That's the price to pay for your mistake

Since Mills is hell bent on not doing this (you saw that with noah) i don't really think we have a chance at anything worth while if we keep those guys on the books..Max guy is out the window

First of all, we haven't show case LEE much at all this season, so he's value is at an all time low.

THJ has value, but he was already severely overpaid, so who wants to add that kind of $$ on to their books for another yr.

I have to give a lot of credit to Donnie walsh, a real president with hella experience and great relationships throught the league

November 21, 2008: Jamal Crawford and Zach Randolph traded.

In keeping with his stated long-range plan, Walsh trades Jamal Crawford to Golden State for Al Harrington. Reportedly, Walsh tells Golden State GM Chris Mullin he can have his choice of Isiah-disaster players (The “Big Four” of Eddy Curry, Jared Jeffries, Zach Randolph, and Jamal Crawford) for disgruntled Warrior Al Harrington. Mullin chooses Crawford. Several hours later Walsh trades Randolph, along with Mardy Collins, for Ex-Knick Tim Thomas and Ex-basketball player Cuttino Mobley.

This represents the first major day in the life of Donnie Walsh as Knick president. It puts in motion a plan to target the free agent class of 2010 and from here there is no going back. At the time of the trade, the “Big Four” were all deemed “untradable”. Randolph and Crawford were, apparently, the least “untradable” as they were not only traded by the Knicks, but within a year, both were traded again. It should be noted that the rate of return diminished even further, as Jamal Crawford was traded for a package of Acie Law and retiree Speedy Claxton, and Zach Randolph was traded for fellow Knick outcast Quentin Richardson (more on him later). It should also be noted that Jamal Crawford went on to win 6th man of the year in 2010 and Zach Randolph went on to become an All Star with the Grizzlies.

These were some of the worse contracts imaginable..

It's also Note worthy the the FO said they were going to bypass any trades this season to focus on strictly developing their youth..mitch, trier, frank, knox, dotson....But if you think your going to trade lee or THR without coughing one of them up and/or picks..your tripping..

NYKBocker wrote:If the only way to move them is by giving away picks then you don't do it. I would rather we hold on to them this year then try again next year. Why keep putting ourselves in a bad hole.

They may not pan out, and you don't tank hoping for better ping pong balls to shove up your infected rectum, but you keep 1st rounders and hope your FO can draft intelligently.

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Get lee and THJ of the books this season. That's the price to pay for your mistake

Since Mills is hell bent on not doing this (you saw that with noah) i don't really think we have a chance at anything worth while if we keep those guys on the books..Max guy is out the window

First of all, we haven't show case LEE much at all this season, so he's value is at an all time low.

THJ has value, but he was already severely overpaid, so who wants to add that kind of $$ on to their books for another yr.

I have to give a lot of credit to Donnie walsh, a real president with hella experience and great relationships throught the league

November 21, 2008: Jamal Crawford and Zach Randolph traded.

In keeping with his stated long-range plan, Walsh trades Jamal Crawford to Golden State for Al Harrington. Reportedly, Walsh tells Golden State GM Chris Mullin he can have his choice of Isiah-disaster players (The “Big Four” of Eddy Curry, Jared Jeffries, Zach Randolph, and Jamal Crawford) for disgruntled Warrior Al Harrington. Mullin chooses Crawford. Several hours later Walsh trades Randolph, along with Mardy Collins, for Ex-Knick Tim Thomas and Ex-basketball player Cuttino Mobley.

This represents the first major day in the life of Donnie Walsh as Knick president. It puts in motion a plan to target the free agent class of 2010 and from here there is no going back. At the time of the trade, the “Big Four” were all deemed “untradable”. Randolph and Crawford were, apparently, the least “untradable” as they were not only traded by the Knicks, but within a year, both were traded again. It should be noted that the rate of return diminished even further, as Jamal Crawford was traded for a package of Acie Law and retiree Speedy Claxton, and Zach Randolph was traded for fellow Knick outcast Quentin Richardson (more on him later). It should also be noted that Jamal Crawford went on to win 6th man of the year in 2010 and Zach Randolph went on to become an All Star with the Grizzlies.

These were some of the worse contracts imaginable..

It's also Note worthy the the FO said they were going to bypass any trades this season to focus on strictly developing their youth..mitch, trier, frank, knox, dotson....But if you think your going to trade lee or THR without coughing one of them up and/or picks..your tripping..

Honestly, all Walsh had to do was clear salary, picks and youth be damned. Dolan thought LeBron was a possibly, so he was pretty hands off during that time. It's hard for me to give him much credit for the guy job he did. Anyway can give away unprotected lottery picks in order to move salaries.

well this kind of goes with what jskinny35 is saying, which is definitely a concern.

Its no sweat for me to get rid of any or everybody on a roster that produce (probably 12 wins) over the course of a season..None of the young guys we have look like future all stars at all..

Knox..looks like his ceiling could be Beasly/al Harrington type..and his motor is off and on, and this seems like a personality trait, not a confidence issue

Frank..role player at best and is shooting a god awful 35%

Mitch...4 yrs away, and without a face up jumper...role player..big time motor issues

Dotson...I would keep him over everyone..

trier...Without the proper leadership in place, he's expendable and has character issues..

Also lets face it, we just really suck at developing players..Can you honestly say it working out

jrodmc wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:If the only way to move them is by giving away picks then you don't do it. I would rather we hold on to them this year then try again next year. Why keep putting ourselves in a bad hole.

+1
One word: Bargs. You don't trade first rounders to get someone to take your trash out, or to bring trash in. 2nd rounders, sure, trade away.

They may not pan out, and you don't tank hoping for better ping pong balls to shove up your infected rectum, but you keep 1st rounders and hope your FO can draft intelligently.

i would have giving up a 1st for Lowrey..Not Bargs

StarksEwing1 wrote:Nope. No more trading picks. Did that for over a decade with shit results

Exactly...if FAs want to sign outright bring it on...no more trading picks. We are not as lucky as Heat was to get Lebron in his prime, it didn't matter to them that they traded away picks. But it does matter to us

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Get lee and THJ of the books this season. That's the price to pay for your mistake

Since Mills is hell bent on not doing this (you saw that with noah) i don't really think we have a chance at anything worth while if we keep those guys on the books..Max guy is out the window

First of all, we haven't show case LEE much at all this season, so he's value is at an all time low.

THJ has value, but he was already severely overpaid, so who wants to add that kind of $$ on to their books for another yr.

I have to give a lot of credit to Donnie walsh, a real president with hella experience and great relationships throught the league

November 21, 2008: Jamal Crawford and Zach Randolph traded.

In keeping with his stated long-range plan, Walsh trades Jamal Crawford to Golden State for Al Harrington. Reportedly, Walsh tells Golden State GM Chris Mullin he can have his choice of Isiah-disaster players (The “Big Four” of Eddy Curry, Jared Jeffries, Zach Randolph, and Jamal Crawford) for disgruntled Warrior Al Harrington. Mullin chooses Crawford. Several hours later Walsh trades Randolph, along with Mardy Collins, for Ex-Knick Tim Thomas and Ex-basketball player Cuttino Mobley.

This represents the first major day in the life of Donnie Walsh as Knick president. It puts in motion a plan to target the free agent class of 2010 and from here there is no going back. At the time of the trade, the “Big Four” were all deemed “untradable”. Randolph and Crawford were, apparently, the least “untradable” as they were not only traded by the Knicks, but within a year, both were traded again. It should be noted that the rate of return diminished even further, as Jamal Crawford was traded for a package of Acie Law and retiree Speedy Claxton, and Zach Randolph was traded for fellow Knick outcast Quentin Richardson (more on him later). It should also be noted that Jamal Crawford went on to win 6th man of the year in 2010 and Zach Randolph went on to become an All Star with the Grizzlies.

These were some of the worse contracts imaginable..

It's also Note worthy the the FO said they were going to bypass any trades this season to focus on strictly developing their youth..mitch, trier, frank, knox, dotson....But if you think your going to trade lee or THR without coughing one of them up and/or picks..your tripping..

Honestly, all Walsh had to do was clear salary, picks and youth be damned. Dolan thought LeBron was a possibly, so he was pretty hands off during that time. It's hard for me to give him much credit for the guy job he did. Anyway can give away unprotected lottery picks in order to move salaries.

well this kind of goes with what jskinny35 is saying, which is definitely a concern.

Its no sweat for me to get rid of any or everybody on a roster that produce (probably 12 wins) over the course of a season..None of the young guys we have look like future all stars at all..

Knox..looks like his ceiling could be Beasly/al Harrington type..and his motor is off and on, and this seems like a personality trait, not a confidence issue

Frank..role player at best and is shooting a god awful 35%

Mitch...4 yrs away, and without a face up jumper...role player..big time motor issues

Dotson...I would keep him over everyone..

trier...Without the proper leadership in place, he's expendable and has character issues..

Also lets face it, we just really suck at developing players..Can you honestly say it working out

Rainman sad today. I'd take antidepressants.

CLee played10 games to show he is healthy.

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Get lee and THJ of the books this season. That's the price to pay for your mistake

Since Mills is hell bent on not doing this (you saw that with noah) i don't really think we have a chance at anything worth while if we keep those guys on the books..Max guy is out the window

First of all, we haven't show case LEE much at all this season, so he's value is at an all time low.

THJ has value, but he was already severely overpaid, so who wants to add that kind of $$ on to their books for another yr.

I have to give a lot of credit to Donnie walsh, a real president with hella experience and great relationships throught the league

November 21, 2008: Jamal Crawford and Zach Randolph traded.

In keeping with his stated long-range plan, Walsh trades Jamal Crawford to Golden State for Al Harrington. Reportedly, Walsh tells Golden State GM Chris Mullin he can have his choice of Isiah-disaster players (The “Big Four” of Eddy Curry, Jared Jeffries, Zach Randolph, and Jamal Crawford) for disgruntled Warrior Al Harrington. Mullin chooses Crawford. Several hours later Walsh trades Randolph, along with Mardy Collins, for Ex-Knick Tim Thomas and Ex-basketball player Cuttino Mobley.

This represents the first major day in the life of Donnie Walsh as Knick president. It puts in motion a plan to target the free agent class of 2010 and from here there is no going back. At the time of the trade, the “Big Four” were all deemed “untradable”. Randolph and Crawford were, apparently, the least “untradable” as they were not only traded by the Knicks, but within a year, both were traded again. It should be noted that the rate of return diminished even further, as Jamal Crawford was traded for a package of Acie Law and retiree Speedy Claxton, and Zach Randolph was traded for fellow Knick outcast Quentin Richardson (more on him later). It should also be noted that Jamal Crawford went on to win 6th man of the year in 2010 and Zach Randolph went on to become an All Star with the Grizzlies.

These were some of the worse contracts imaginable..

It's also Note worthy the the FO said they were going to bypass any trades this season to focus on strictly developing their youth..mitch, trier, frank, knox, dotson....But if you think your going to trade lee or THR without coughing one of them up and/or picks..your tripping..

Honestly, all Walsh had to do was clear salary, picks and youth be damned. Dolan thought LeBron was a possibly, so he was pretty hands off during that time. It's hard for me to give him much credit for the guy job he did. Anyway can give away unprotected lottery picks in order to move salaries.

well this kind of goes with what jskinny35 is saying, which is definitely a concern.

Its no sweat for me to get rid of any or everybody on a roster that produce (probably 12 wins) over the course of a season..None of the young guys we have look like future all stars at all..

Knox..looks like his ceiling could be Beasly/al Harrington type..and his motor is off and on, and this seems like a personality trait, not a confidence issue

Frank..role player at best and is shooting a god awful 35%

Mitch...4 yrs away, and without a face up jumper...role player..big time motor issues

Dotson...I would keep him over everyone..

trier...Without the proper leadership in place, he's expendable and has character issues..

Also lets face it, we just really suck at developing players..Can you honestly say it working out

Are you saying trade Knox to get rid of Hardaway or Lee??? Are you fucking nuts!!! This is how you destroy a teams future

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Someone will take CLeee. if not now, this summer. Hardaway is tough. Try to move him but not at the cost of picks.

It takes a 2nd to move Lee a lightly protected first to move Hardaway Jr.

Jmpasq wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Someone will take CLeee. if not now, this summer. Hardaway is tough. Try to move him but not at the cost of picks.

It takes a 2nd to move Lee a lightly protected first to move Hardaway Jr.

What are you smokin'?

If someone wants Lee, then its straight up. Lee isn't hurting this team.

And you're going to trade a "lightly" protected first to move Hardaway? "lightly"???

Look this FO invested in Hardaway, you break it, you bought it.

These cap space, FA fantasies sell media content but do nothing more than disrupt rational thought. In the summer, if some big-shot FA wants in then teams suddenly shuffle players to make it happen. They do so because one hand washes the other.

NO, you don't give away yet another asset to rid yourself of another - Knicks have tragically gone down that road for over a decade.

fwk00 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Someone will take CLeee. if not now, this summer. Hardaway is tough. Try to move him but not at the cost of picks.

It takes a 2nd to move Lee a lightly protected first to move Hardaway Jr.

What are you smokin'?

If someone wants Lee, then its straight up. Lee isn't hurting this team.

And you're going to trade a "lightly" protected first to move Hardaway? "lightly"???

Look this FO invested in Hardaway, you break it, you bought it.

These cap space, FA fantasies sell media content but do nothing more than disrupt rational thought. In the summer, if some big-shot FA wants in then teams suddenly shuffle players to make it happen. They do so because one hand washes the other.

NO, you don't give away yet another asset to rid yourself of another - Knicks have tragically gone down that road for over a decade.

What am I smokin'?
If you believe someone is taking Lee without us attacthing some sort of sweetner your beyond smoking something your inhaling rubber cement or gasoline. Lee has been on the block for years. We would give him away for an expiring contract, it hasn't happened.

Hardaway Jr will cost us a 1st to move him. Probably get away with protection through 7. Would I do it, maybe depends who is signing here. I would trade Frank to dump Hardaway Jr so it all depends. I mean look at Knox and Frank, do you think either of those guys will develop into a difference maker. Knox is a chucker, who can't pass and can't defend. Frank is one of the worst offensive players in the league. A poster last year was encouraging us to trade our pick this year for Doncic. I actually thought he was crazy at the time but he was right. Donic is good enough to change a teams fortunes. If your not getting a player like Doncic in the draft its basically a wasted season.
Fact is both Lee and Hardaway Jr. are negative assets. Teams value their cap space over them, thats why they haven't been traded yet.

Jmpasq wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:Someone will take CLeee. if not now, this summer. Hardaway is tough. Try to move him but not at the cost of picks.

It takes a 2nd to move Lee a lightly protected first to move Hardaway Jr.

What are you smokin'?

If someone wants Lee, then its straight up. Lee isn't hurting this team.

And you're going to trade a "lightly" protected first to move Hardaway? "lightly"???

Look this FO invested in Hardaway, you break it, you bought it.

These cap space, FA fantasies sell media content but do nothing more than disrupt rational thought. In the summer, if some big-shot FA wants in then teams suddenly shuffle players to make it happen. They do so because one hand washes the other.

NO, you don't give away yet another asset to rid yourself of another - Knicks have tragically gone down that road for over a decade.

What am I smokin'?
If you believe someone is taking Lee without us attacthing some sort of sweetner your beyond smoking something your inhaling rubber cement or gasoline. Lee has been on the block for years. We would give him away for an expiring contract, it hasn't happened.

Hardaway Jr will cost us a 1st to move him. Probably get away with protection through 7. Would I do it, maybe depends who is signing here. I would trade Frank to dump Hardaway Jr so it all depends. I mean look at Knox and Frank, do you think either of those guys will develop into a difference maker. Knox is a chucker, who can't pass and can't defend. Frank is one of the worst offensive players in the league. A poster last year was encouraging us to trade our pick this year for Doncic. I actually thought he was crazy at the time but he was right. Donic is good enough to change a teams fortunes. If your not getting a player like Doncic in the draft its basically a wasted season.
Fact is both Lee and Hardaway Jr. are negative assets. Teams value their cap space over them, thats why they haven't been traded yet.

No doubt they are liabilities.
So if we cannot trade them (unlikely) we have to wait until they expire.
I understand the urge to shorten the rebuild from standard average of 5 years to anything less.
But only if you get lucky and you can move this liabilities without losing significant assets.
If miracles are not coming you way be in piece with conventional rebuild based on initial situation with the team.

TheGame wrote:I would give anyone 1 second round pick if it allowed me to trade one or both of them. I would. Or give up any more picks than that though. Hardaway is still useful and worse case scenario, we could cut and stretch Lee if we need to make cap room for Durant.

Fortunately you are not Knicks GM so are all other impatient clueless Knicks fans.