It could well be the case that Mudiay cannot fetch more than late second, as every other team now knows we cannot hold onto him, DSJ and go after any max FAs
Similarly, DSJ will not want to play backup to Kyrie or Kemba. He's too competitive. So do they ship him before the drama
Then you have the issue of Frank and what do you do with him, if you're in love with DSJ or Mud or Kyrie or Kemba
So what will the FO do?
Theory 1: FO made a messy situation messier and we get nothing for Mud, and we piss off DSJ and ship him, if we get one of the K's
Theory 2: FO wants no part of pg K's and is perhaps focused on other Ks, e.g., a Kawhi and Klay pairing, to go with whichever current roster pg they truly like
Other theories?
We’ll try to trade mud at the deadline, if we can’t move him, we’ll end up renouncing him in the offseason as we have to to clear up the space for 2 max cats.
Likely if we keep Frank (likely unless we get an intriguing offer for another player on a rookie contract, which I don’t see happening), we spend the rest of the season getting him used to his role for next year- playing back up PG, SG and occasional SF.
I would try to flip Mudiay. If we can turn a second into a first or two seconds, well hey, I'll take it
Other than that, no sense in planning it out just yet. We needed a point but now I don't really think so, but I'd still take Kyrie. Maybe something crazy happens like Klay and Kawhi decide to come here. Maybe no one comes. Who knows so no sense in tearing it all down just yet
I think the front office has lost faith in Mudiay and Frank. Smith is the only priority at PG now, and is essentially the backup plan to Kyrie. If we get Kyrie, it doesn't mean Smith is gone. He would be an excellent 6th man and get his minutes, but long-term i don't think it's realistic to keep him if we have Kyrie. We will see.
If you must, let him walk.
Good teams don't look for value to cover their asses. Things change Quickly.
Trier happened. Smith Happened.
Mud might have to wait until back end of free agency.
Frank on rookie deal and his skill set might be seen as complementary to smith, kyrie or kemba. More so than Mudiay.
Smith plays well, you have a very good asset to trade.
Knixkik wrote:I think the front office has lost faith in Mudiay and Frank. Smith is the only priority at PG now, and is essentially the backup plan to Kyrie. If we get Kyrie, it doesn't mean Smith is gone. He would be an excellent 6th man and get his minutes, but long-term i don't think it's realistic to keep him if we have Kyrie. We will see.
Don’t agree. In fact BOTH mills and Fizdale said that playing smith and frank was a real attraction to them
Mudiay is done here. He is an expiring and we own his QO. They will need to renounce it for the 2 max slots to happen. Frank and DSJr are both under their rookie contracts. They will try to move one of them if they get Kyrie. One will be a backup.
However, I really want to see DSJr and Frank together in the backcourt. If they click then I am going hard to get KD and Kawhi.
Nalod wrote:If you must, let him walk.
Good teams don't look for value to cover their asses. Things change Quickly.
Trier happened. Smith Happened.
Mud might have to wait until back end of free agency.
Frank on rookie deal and his skill set might be seen as complementary to smith, kyrie or kemba. More so than Mudiay.
Smith plays well, you have a very good asset to trade.
Exactly. Don't get attached to any of these guys, especially if those rumors come to fruition. We would need to fill out the roster quickly at that point. Honestly, I think Mudiay will have to prove it another year before anyone signs him to a real deal. He might be the one to come back while Frank and DSJ are moved in deals to balance out the roster. My idealized version of Frank's future might make him the better fit. But, even as bad as he's been on offense, Frank has higher trade value than Mudiay. I don't see DSJ wanting to wait behind a vet and I could see him forcing a trade. Plus he has the highest trade value right now. Anyway, there is no need to worry about this now. Too many things have to play out before we even get to that point.
StarksEwing1 wrote:Knixkik wrote:I think the front office has lost faith in Mudiay and Frank. Smith is the only priority at PG now, and is essentially the backup plan to Kyrie. If we get Kyrie, it doesn't mean Smith is gone. He would be an excellent 6th man and get his minutes, but long-term i don't think it's realistic to keep him if we have Kyrie. We will see.
Don’t agree. In fact BOTH mills and Fizdale said that playing smith and frank was a real attraction to them
Maybe for some stretches, but it definitely feels like something they are just saying because Frank is still on the roster. Neither player can shoot consistently from the outside, so in today's game they are already a terrible combination just on that alone. And we now know Frank will never start at PG here again. I think they have essentially lost faith in him developing into anything other than a backup combo guard.
NYKBocker wrote:Mudiay is done here. He is an expiring and we own his QO. They will need to renounce it for the 2 max slots to happen. Frank and DSJr are both under their rookie contracts. They will try to move one of them if they get Kyrie. One will be a backup. However, I really want to see DSJr and Frank together in the backcourt. If they click then I am going hard to get KD and Kawhi.
It can't work with the lack of shooting between them. We need at least one of those backcourt spots to have a consistent 3pt threat.
Knixkik wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:Knixkik wrote:I think the front office has lost faith in Mudiay and Frank. Smith is the only priority at PG now, and is essentially the backup plan to Kyrie. If we get Kyrie, it doesn't mean Smith is gone. He would be an excellent 6th man and get his minutes, but long-term i don't think it's realistic to keep him if we have Kyrie. We will see.
Don’t agree. In fact BOTH mills and Fizdale said that playing smith and frank was a real attraction to them
Maybe for some stretches, but it definitely feels like something they are just saying because Frank is still on the roster. Neither player can shoot consistently from the outside, so in today's game they are already a terrible combination just on that alone. And we now know Frank will never start at PG here again. I think they have essentially lost faith in him developing into anything other than a backup combo guard.
I don’t think they have lost faith in him. He was starting to play well until the injury. I’m not opposed to trading him if we are getting back something good but they aren’t just dumping him to add a little more salary relief
Chandler wrote:
It could well be the case that Mudiay cannot fetch more than late second, as every other team now knows we cannot hold onto him, DSJ and go after any max FAsSimilarly, DSJ will not want to play backup to Kyrie or Kemba. He's too competitive. So do they ship him before the drama
Then you have the issue of Frank and what do you do with him, if you're in love with DSJ or Mud or Kyrie or Kemba
So what will the FO do?
Theory 1: FO made a messy situation messier and we get nothing for Mud, and we piss off DSJ and ship him, if we get one of the K's
Theory 2: FO wants no part of pg K's and is perhaps focused on other Ks, e.g., a Kawhi and Klay pairing, to go with whichever current roster pg they truly like
Other theories?
I disagree with both theories. I am not sure that the Knicks could get anything for Mud because his cap hold next year is 12 mil. No one is keeping him for that despite the improvements in his game. I don’t know that he is worth a second to have for 30 games. I also think the front office decided a long time ago that Frank’s offensive game is very far away from that of a starting point guard. I think the KP trade saved Frank from being moved to save cap space but I also think the long term expectations for Frank are lowered since the draft and he could be moved at anytime. I think the front office really likes Smith. The Knicks were rumored to be pursuing him back in December. I also think that they woukd jump at the chance to get Kyrie and figure out what to do with Smith later. Mudiay will not be back and Frank maybe moved if the right offer to make the team better is there.
Why does anyone think Mudiay has trade value? Even for like a top 55 protected pick?
Dude is going to be an UFA heading to China soon and do we really think a PLAYOFF team wants him and is will to give up some sort of pick?
NYKBocker wrote:Mudiay is done here. He is an expiring and we own his QO. They will need to renounce it for the 2 max slots to happen. Frank and DSJr are both under their rookie contracts. They will try to move one of them if they get Kyrie. One will be a backup. However, I really want to see DSJr and Frank together in the backcourt. If they click then I am going hard to get KD and Kawhi.
I don't see that happening. Didn't KD talk smack about Kawhi once or twice -- system player etc.
Having said that, that would be a pretty nice set of forwards
I guess the best way to put it is nobody on this team is good enough to where we should change any strategy of who to get this summer. We should be trying to get the best duo possible and then we can always mess with the other parts. No way any of those guys should deter from Kyrie/Kemba either.
CrushAlot wrote:Chandler wrote:
It could well be the case that Mudiay cannot fetch more than late second, as every other team now knows we cannot hold onto him, DSJ and go after any max FAsSimilarly, DSJ will not want to play backup to Kyrie or Kemba. He's too competitive. So do they ship him before the drama
Then you have the issue of Frank and what do you do with him, if you're in love with DSJ or Mud or Kyrie or Kemba
So what will the FO do?
Theory 1: FO made a messy situation messier and we get nothing for Mud, and we piss off DSJ and ship him, if we get one of the K's
Theory 2: FO wants no part of pg K's and is perhaps focused on other Ks, e.g., a Kawhi and Klay pairing, to go with whichever current roster pg they truly like
Other theories?
I disagree with both theories. I am not sure that the Knicks could get anything for Mud because his cap hold next year is 12 mil. No one is keeping him for that despite the improvements in his game. I don’t know that he is worth a second to have for 30 games. I also think the front office decided a long time ago that Frank’s offensive game is very far away from that of a starting point guard. I think the KP trade saved Frank from being moved to save cap space but I also think the long term expectations for Frank are lowered since the draft and he could be moved at anytime. I think the front office really likes Smith. The Knicks were rumored to be pursuing him back in December. I also think that they woukd jump at the chance to get Kyrie and figure out what to do with Smith later. Mudiay will not be back and Frank maybe moved if the right offer to make the team better is there.
not to quibble or put words in your mouth, but it seems like you are foreseeing theory 1 perhaps with the caveat that you're on the fence of whether Smith would be a backup??
martin wrote:Why does anyone think Mudiay has trade value? Even for like a top 55 protected pick?Dude is going to be an UFA heading to China soon and do we really think a PLAYOFF team wants him and is will to give up some sort of pick?
I can easily see this happening
Which gets back to something I said way at the beginning of the season: why are we developing a bunch of guys on their last year. If the guys stinks, we wasted our time (opportunity cost over developing guys still under more favorable contracts, e.g., Frank); and if we were successful (e.g., if you thought Mud's improved EFG% qualifies) we get "rewarded" with a higher contract demand.
Having said all of that, we do have quite the logjam now and that doesn't include the notion of drafting a pg
Chandler wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Chandler wrote:
It could well be the case that Mudiay cannot fetch more than late second, as every other team now knows we cannot hold onto him, DSJ and go after any max FAsSimilarly, DSJ will not want to play backup to Kyrie or Kemba. He's too competitive. So do they ship him before the drama
Then you have the issue of Frank and what do you do with him, if you're in love with DSJ or Mud or Kyrie or Kemba
So what will the FO do?
Theory 1: FO made a messy situation messier and we get nothing for Mud, and we piss off DSJ and ship him, if we get one of the K's
Theory 2: FO wants no part of pg K's and is perhaps focused on other Ks, e.g., a Kawhi and Klay pairing, to go with whichever current roster pg they truly like
Other theories?
I disagree with both theories. I am not sure that the Knicks could get anything for Mud because his cap hold next year is 12 mil. No one is keeping him for that despite the improvements in his game. I don’t know that he is worth a second to have for 30 games. I also think the front office decided a long time ago that Frank’s offensive game is very far away from that of a starting point guard. I think the KP trade saved Frank from being moved to save cap space but I also think the long term expectations for Frank are lowered since the draft and he could be moved at anytime. I think the front office really likes Smith. The Knicks were rumored to be pursuing him back in December. I also think that they woukd jump at the chance to get Kyrie and figure out what to do with Smith later. Mudiay will not be back and Frank maybe moved if the right offer to make the team better is there.
not to quibble or put words in your mouth, but it seems like you are foreseeing theory 1 perhaps with the caveat that you're on the fence of whether Smith would be a backup??
I dont think it is a messy situation. I think they really wanted Smith. They might see Smith as their guy rather than committing max money to Kemba. I think if KD comes they will sign Kyrie if he is available. I almost think getting a second star would have to be in play for KD to come. I think the job is Smith’s now and maybe the Knicks build up his trade value in the event they get Kyrie. I don’t think the Knicks saw Mud or Frank as the starting point they want to go with in the future. I think Mud is gone after the season and Frank is gone if the right opportunity presents itself.
IMO, everyone on this list can be traded. All have some potential, but I'd part with any for the right price. DSJ and frank are on rookie contracts, so have more value than mudiay. I dont want Kemba for the max. Nice player but he'll be a bad contract we have to get rid of down the road. If you dont get Kyrie, there's room for mudiay and DSJ at point and Frank as a SG among Dot and Trier.
martin wrote:Why does anyone think Mudiay has trade value? Even for like a top 55 protected pick?Dude is going to be an UFA heading to China soon and do we really think a PLAYOFF team wants him and is will to give up some sort of pick?
He was worth a 2nd round pick when we got him and has exceeded expectations. He probably won't ever start on a good team but he be good to have as a backup PG for sure
nykshaknbake wrote:IMO, everyone on this list can be traded. All have some potential, but I'd part with any for the right price. DSJ and frank are on rookie contracts, so have more value than mudiay. I dont want Kemba for the max. Nice player but he'll be a bad contract we have to get rid of down the road. If you dont get Kyrie, there's room for mudiay and DSJ at point and Frank as a SG among Dot and Trier.
I agree, they're all replaceable parts.
I would only want Kemba for the max under the right circumstances. If he's coming with another guy like KD or Kawhi or if we pull off a deal for AD I'm down with that, he's a quality #2 to them.
