Knicks · If we get the #1 pick, shop it around (page 2)

Killa4luv wrote:1. I dont want to get all into evaluating Zion but i do not see him as a generational talent, he is a generational athelete, but he is no Lebron James.

Zion means more to a small market team than he does to us, because of the money he will bring to a team and I think those teams would be interested in offering assets for that pick. We should AT A MINIMUM look at what those assets are. For us, you have to ask is Zion better than our swapped pick plus whatever asset a team is willing to part with? That could mean swapped pick and a trade or it could mean an additional unprotected pick. Is Zion better then the 2nd -5th pick this year AND and unprotected lotto pick next year (especially if we're trading picks with a west coast team like Phoenix or Memphis? I dont think so. Even for the East coast teams i dont see any team thats going to become a playoff team because they drafted Zion.

I'm just saying we should do our due diligence.

VCoug wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Killa4luv wrote:1. I dont want to get all into evaluating Zion but i do not see him as a generational talent, he is a generational athlete....

This is an excellent distinction.

Maybe the best I've seen anywhere regarding Zion Williamson. Anywhere.

You may not realize it, but you said maybe the one thing that would get an NBA owner to actually green light a trade from the top overall pick in the draft. It's simple but irrefutable.

Good job. You need to be posting more often on this site.

lol, that statement is the exact opposite of "irrefutable". If you think Zion is just a dunker, which is what I have to assume based on your comment, than you either haven't watched him play or you don't understand basketball.

...or doesn't even bother to read just a few of the kid's quotes. Doesn't sound like an Oliver Miller type, who's unable to "out-train what's on his plate/in the bottle/up his nose". Cut to long winded explanation about how Duke basketball is part of the corporate galactic machine that programs all sneaker-wearing athletes over 6'6" on what to say and how to say it. EVERYONE KNOWS there are secret classrooms and Nike tutors who indoctrinate young men on how to handle and answer every single question after every single possible post-game outcome...no matter what their level of piece-of-shitted-ness or fuhucking asshole-ableness.

I can understand the value to the board of being the resident contrarian, but Zion's doing everything on the court but light it up from three. Leq came at us from fuhucking high school. Would he have been this dominant playing at Duke? Probably. But even years into his career, LeQ admitted his jumper was the weakest part of his game. (Waits to see how LeQ [the dumbest GM wannabe azzhole in the solar system] is now explained as more than a generational athlete coming out of varsity high school.)

BTW, doesn't the first half of that irrefutable statement contradict the second half? OP doesn't want to evaluate the kid, but then he evaluates him anyway...

jrodmc wrote:

VCoug wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Killa4luv wrote:1. I dont want to get all into evaluating Zion but i do not see him as a generational talent, he is a generational athlete....

This is an excellent distinction.

Maybe the best I've seen anywhere regarding Zion Williamson. Anywhere.

You may not realize it, but you said maybe the one thing that would get an NBA owner to actually green light a trade from the top overall pick in the draft. It's simple but irrefutable.

Good job. You need to be posting more often on this site.

lol, that statement is the exact opposite of "irrefutable". If you think Zion is just a dunker, which is what I have to assume based on your comment, than you either haven't watched him play or you don't understand basketball.

...or doesn't even bother to read just a few of the kid's quotes. Doesn't sound like an Oliver Miller type, who's unable to "out-train what's on his plate/in the bottle/up his nose". Cut to long winded explanation about how Duke basketball is part of the corporate galactic machine that programs all sneaker-wearing athletes over 6'6" on what to say and how to say it. EVERYONE KNOWS there are secret classrooms and Nike tutors who indoctrinate young men on how to handle and answer every single question after every single possible post-game outcome...no matter what their level of piece-of-shitted-ness or fuhucking asshole-ableness.

I can understand the value to the board of being the resident contrarian, but Zion's doing everything on the court but light it up from three. Leq came at us from fuhucking high school. Would he have been this dominant playing at Duke? Probably. But even years into his career, LeQ admitted his jumper was the weakest part of his game. (Waits to see how LeQ [the dumbest GM wannabe azzhole in the solar system] is now explained as more than a generational athlete coming out of varsity high school.)

BTW, doesn't the first half of that irrefutable statement contradict the second half? OP doesn't want to evaluate the kid, but then he evaluates him anyway...

I feel the subliminal Melo love oozing thru. Same Draft, Melo a better shooter, Came home, Left, Deron Williams......Where is Mozgov?

NYKBocker wrote:If we get the #1 pick then you pick Zion and roll with it. Dude is Charles Barkley 2.0. As boehiem said he is just like barkley except he is not fat

He has way more athleticism than Barkley...mofo can jump over the moon!

Don't think anyone is trading the first pick or the chance to draft Zion. This is not anything like last years scenario and comparing Luka to Trae. Neither who half the athletic ability that Zion has. Which imo now seems like a mistake as well. This kid is just not someone you pass on. He is a freak of nature. I don't care if he ever learns how to shoot a three. He has so much more value in regards to finishing on fast breaks, slashing to the basket, ability to defend at all positions, rebounding and ability to be the best athlete on the court. Biggest thing for me is the kid has an incredible motor. If someone can name the last guy who was 6'7 285 with this kind of motor, I am all ears.

In terms of possible moves that may be available, I could see if we get the 2nd pick, we should look to trade down a few spots and pick up an asset or two. As I see it, the 2 to 6 is pretty interchangeable.

Btw, this seems like just another jinx thread to knock us the fuck out of top 3.

HofstraBBall wrote:Only due diligence needed, if we get the first pick, is asking Zion in which part of town would he like the Knicks to buy his penthouse.

Don't think anyone is trading the first pick or the chance to draft Zion. This is not anything like last years scenario and comparing Luka to Trae. Neither who half the athletic ability that Zion has. Which imo now seems like a mistake as well. This kid is just not someone you pass on. He is a freak of nature. I don't care if he ever learns how to shoot a three. He has so much more value in regards to finishing on fast breaks, slashing to the basket, ability to defend at all positions, rebounding and ability to be the best athlete on the court. Biggest thing for me is the kid has an incredible motor. If someone can name the last guy who was 6'7 285 with this kind of motor, I am all ears.

In terms of possible moves that may be available, I could see if we get the 2nd pick, we should look to trade down a few spots and pick up an asset or two. As I see it, the 2 to 6 is pretty interchangeable.

Btw, this seems like just another jinx thread to knock us the fuck out of top 3.

Nalod wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

VCoug wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Killa4luv wrote:1. I dont want to get all into evaluating Zion but i do not see him as a generational talent, he is a generational athlete....

This is an excellent distinction.

Maybe the best I've seen anywhere regarding Zion Williamson. Anywhere.

You may not realize it, but you said maybe the one thing that would get an NBA owner to actually green light a trade from the top overall pick in the draft. It's simple but irrefutable.

Good job. You need to be posting more often on this site.

lol, that statement is the exact opposite of "irrefutable". If you think Zion is just a dunker, which is what I have to assume based on your comment, than you either haven't watched him play or you don't understand basketball.

...or doesn't even bother to read just a few of the kid's quotes. Doesn't sound like an Oliver Miller type, who's unable to "out-train what's on his plate/in the bottle/up his nose". Cut to long winded explanation about how Duke basketball is part of the corporate galactic machine that programs all sneaker-wearing athletes over 6'6" on what to say and how to say it. EVERYONE KNOWS there are secret classrooms and Nike tutors who indoctrinate young men on how to handle and answer every single question after every single possible post-game outcome...no matter what their level of piece-of-shitted-ness or fuhucking asshole-ableness.

I can understand the value to the board of being the resident contrarian, but Zion's doing everything on the court but light it up from three. Leq came at us from fuhucking high school. Would he have been this dominant playing at Duke? Probably. But even years into his career, LeQ admitted his jumper was the weakest part of his game. (Waits to see how LeQ [the dumbest GM wannabe azzhole in the solar system] is now explained as more than a generational athlete coming out of varsity high school.)

BTW, doesn't the first half of that irrefutable statement contradict the second half? OP doesn't want to evaluate the kid, but then he evaluates him anyway...

I feel the subliminal Melo love oozing thru. Same Draft, Melo a better shooter, Came home, Left, Deron Williams......Where is Mozgov?

I'm sensing the Frankie anti-rainman vibe reaction here. Don't worry, Unca Nalod, Mount Zion won't make Frankie irrelevant. Kid's already used to playing with skinny, long armed guards who don't score alot.

Never followed Melo until he 'raped' his way here. Plus, what the hell did we end up with in the Melo draft? Michael Sweetney? Never got a chance to ooze any love there.

Nalod, you watching any tape? The kid's hitting his shoulder on the backboard going for blocks. Melo? Really? Let the MoobyBalloon go already.

We’d probably still have to get rid of Trier, Knox, DSJr and Frank to clear the salary for KD and Trier, but it would mean we could move one of those in a separate deal for something, even if it’s just a second rounder

smackeddog wrote:Just thought, Lance has only $1mil guaranteed next season. If we were to pick up the whole final year option could we then include him in a draft day trade for AD? His $7.5mil would make it a lot easier to match the salaries. Plus I think the pelicans will be under the cap too so the series don’t have to match exactly.

We’d probably still have to get rid of Trier, Knox, DSJr and Frank to clear the salary for KD and Trier, but it would mean we could move one of those in a separate deal for something, even if it’s just a second rounder

Might have ask PEL’s if they want to pay lance that kind of money.

Nalod wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Just thought, Lance has only $1mil guaranteed next season. If we were to pick up the whole final year option could we then include him in a draft day trade for AD? His $7.5mil would make it a lot easier to match the salaries. Plus I think the pelicans will be under the cap too so the series don’t have to match exactly.

We’d probably still have to get rid of Trier, Knox, DSJr and Frank to clear the salary for KD and Trier, but it would mean we could move one of those in a separate deal for something, even if it’s just a second rounder

Might have ask PEL’s if they want to pay lance that kind of money.

It’s not a large amount these days (less than the mle) plus they have to spend up to the cap anyways

In two games without Williamson, who suffered a Grade 1 right knee sprain in the opening minute of Wednesday’s loss to No. 8 North Carolina, the 6-foot-7 Barrett averaged 31.5 points, nine rebounds, six assists and made 25-of-42 shots from the field. He carried No. 1 Duke past Syracuse at the Carrier Dome on Saturday, making sure the Blue Devils wouldn’t lose consecutive games for the first time this season.

Whoever doesn’t land Williamson with the top pick in the draft is going to be thrilled to get a player like Barrett.

knicks1248 wrote:

In two games without Williamson, who suffered a Grade 1 right knee sprain in the opening minute of Wednesday’s loss to No. 8 North Carolina, the 6-foot-7 Barrett averaged 31.5 points, nine rebounds, six assists and made 25-of-42 shots from the field. He carried No. 1 Duke past Syracuse at the Carrier Dome on Saturday, making sure the Blue Devils wouldn’t lose consecutive games for the first time this season.

Whoever doesn’t land Williamson with the top pick in the draft is going to be thrilled to get a player like Barrett.

really like this kid, if KD is really on board, then you go with Barrett over Zion

knicks1248 wrote:

In two games without Williamson, who suffered a Grade 1 right knee sprain in the opening minute of Wednesday’s loss to No. 8 North Carolina, the 6-foot-7 Barrett averaged 31.5 points, nine rebounds, six assists and made 25-of-42 shots from the field. He carried No. 1 Duke past Syracuse at the Carrier Dome on Saturday, making sure the Blue Devils wouldn’t lose consecutive games for the first time this season.

Whoever doesn’t land Williamson with the top pick in the draft is going to be thrilled to get a player like Barrett.

really like this kid, if KD is really on board, then you go with Barrett over Zion

Not sure the reasoning behind this. Seems KD, Barrett and Knox all have an element of redundancy to them. Smooth protypical SF types with good shooting range.
If KD is here you put Zion next to him at PF.
What I don't know is what KD thinks about playing with the deep youth we are cultivating. They are tradable if we want to "win now".
Im not opposed to "win now" but at the same time I'd be more excited about a commitment to being relevant and contend in the short term but that KD would be commited and perhaps buy into moving the franchise forward that we win a chip with him, but beyond his time also!!!
Sure a big time FA like him wants to win and make money but there has to be other things. He has that now. GSW is a top 10 team of all time, might be top 5, he is paid well and lives in a great city with a new arena set to open. He is an icon already. He has his investment company based in NYC already. He does not have to be here. His dad and agent are knick fans, so what? That was them growing up.
There would be something else. Same with Kyrie. Truth be told it would be far more meaningful if it was with a group of young homegrown players and not mercenaries.
I don't want us to gut the team for a two year contention and then fall into the abyss again. I'd rather we still build. No need to starphuch the whole thing. Nyets tried that. I admire them for the effort but it was reckless.

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

In two games without Williamson, who suffered a Grade 1 right knee sprain in the opening minute of Wednesday’s loss to No. 8 North Carolina, the 6-foot-7 Barrett averaged 31.5 points, nine rebounds, six assists and made 25-of-42 shots from the field. He carried No. 1 Duke past Syracuse at the Carrier Dome on Saturday, making sure the Blue Devils wouldn’t lose consecutive games for the first time this season.

Whoever doesn’t land Williamson with the top pick in the draft is going to be thrilled to get a player like Barrett.

really like this kid, if KD is really on board, then you go with Barrett over Zion

try watching Duke. Barret over Zion? Boy you say some dopey stuff bro but that is special

If you like talent over need, thats you preference, it's not dopey, your such a one track mind idiot..

KD, Knox, Zion..all play the same position

If you had steph curry would you draft westbrook over KD..

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

In two games without Williamson, who suffered a Grade 1 right knee sprain in the opening minute of Wednesday’s loss to No. 8 North Carolina, the 6-foot-7 Barrett averaged 31.5 points, nine rebounds, six assists and made 25-of-42 shots from the field. He carried No. 1 Duke past Syracuse at the Carrier Dome on Saturday, making sure the Blue Devils wouldn’t lose consecutive games for the first time this season.

Whoever doesn’t land Williamson with the top pick in the draft is going to be thrilled to get a player like Barrett.

really like this kid, if KD is really on board, then you go with Barrett over Zion

Not sure the reasoning behind this. Seems KD, Barrett and Knox all have an element of redundancy to them. Smooth protypical SF types with good shooting range.
If KD is here you put Zion next to him at PF.
What I don't know is what KD thinks about playing with the deep youth we are cultivating. They are tradable if we want to "win now".
Im not opposed to "win now" but at the same time I'd be more excited about a commitment to being relevant and contend in the short term but that KD would be commited and perhaps buy into moving the franchise forward that we win a chip with him, but beyond his time also!!!
Sure a big time FA like him wants to win and make money but there has to be other things. He has that now. GSW is a top 10 team of all time, might be top 5, he is paid well and lives in a great city with a new arena set to open. He is an icon already. He has his investment company based in NYC already. He does not have to be here. His dad and agent are knick fans, so what? That was them growing up.
There would be something else. Same with Kyrie. Truth be told it would be far more meaningful if it was with a group of young homegrown players and not mercenaries.
I don't want us to gut the team for a two year contention and then fall into the abyss again. I'd rather we still build. No need to starphuch the whole thing. Nyets tried that. I admire them for the effort but it was reckless.

You are definitely going to scrap the youth movement for the most part if you bring in top tier FA, you already see Kyrie, butler, LBJ, all complain about the mind set of some of these young guys, who seem preoccupied with popping bottles in the club until 6am, or playing video games until the same time.

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

In two games without Williamson, who suffered a Grade 1 right knee sprain in the opening minute of Wednesday’s loss to No. 8 North Carolina, the 6-foot-7 Barrett averaged 31.5 points, nine rebounds, six assists and made 25-of-42 shots from the field. He carried No. 1 Duke past Syracuse at the Carrier Dome on Saturday, making sure the Blue Devils wouldn’t lose consecutive games for the first time this season.

Whoever doesn’t land Williamson with the top pick in the draft is going to be thrilled to get a player like Barrett.

really like this kid, if KD is really on board, then you go with Barrett over Zion

try watching Duke. Barret over Zion? Boy you say some dopey stuff bro but that is special

If you like talent over need, thats you preference, it's not dopey, your such a one track mind idiot..

KD, Knox, Zion..all play the same position

If you had steph curry would you draft westbrook over KD..

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

In two games without Williamson, who suffered a Grade 1 right knee sprain in the opening minute of Wednesday’s loss to No. 8 North Carolina, the 6-foot-7 Barrett averaged 31.5 points, nine rebounds, six assists and made 25-of-42 shots from the field. He carried No. 1 Duke past Syracuse at the Carrier Dome on Saturday, making sure the Blue Devils wouldn’t lose consecutive games for the first time this season.

Whoever doesn’t land Williamson with the top pick in the draft is going to be thrilled to get a player like Barrett.

really like this kid, if KD is really on board, then you go with Barrett over Zion

try watching Duke. Barret over Zion? Boy you say some dopey stuff bro but that is special

If you like talent over need, thats you preference, it's not dopey, your such a one track mind idiot..

KD, Knox, Zion..all play the same position

If you had steph curry would you draft westbrook over KD..

Even if you're insistent on drafting for fit, Knox is nowhere nearly good enough to be drafting around. He's shooting 33% on 3s (which is what he shot in college), 38% on 2s, and doesn't make any other positive contribution on the court. I understand why people feel you should draft for fit/need even if I completely disagree but if you're going to draft for need can we at least make sure that the player we already have is actually good?

HofstraBBall wrote:Only due diligence needed, if we get the first pick, is asking Zion in which part of town would he like the Knicks to buy his penthouse.

Don't think anyone is trading the first pick or the chance to draft Zion. This is not anything like last years scenario and comparing Luka to Trae. Neither who half the athletic ability that Zion has. Which imo now seems like a mistake as well. This kid is just not someone you pass on. He is a freak of nature. I don't care if he ever learns how to shoot a three. He has so much more value in regards to finishing on fast breaks, slashing to the basket, ability to defend at all positions, rebounding and ability to be the best athlete on the court. Biggest thing for me is the kid has an incredible motor. If someone can name the last guy who was 6'7 285 with this kind of motor, I am all ears.

In terms of possible moves that may be available, I could see if we get the 2nd pick, we should look to trade down a few spots and pick up an asset or two. As I see it, the 2 to 6 is pretty interchangeable.

Btw, this seems like just another jinx thread to knock us the fuck out of top 3.

No, it is not just another. . . How dare you throw such accusations around! We are not drafting Zion. We would need to get the #1 pick for that. Thats 14% chance. Forgetabboutit. This is not the jinx thread. Far from it. I don't think jinxing works like that anyway. I am not sure how it works or if it works, actually. To knock us out of the top 3 you might have to start a thread with a title of something like 'Knicks are gonna win the lottery and we are finally getting our savior in Zion. ' That would be jinxing. This thread here is being realistic and trying to have a civilized discussion and such. Again, we are not grafting Zion. Not gonna happen. Like at all. Its gonna be alright tho, and in worst case scenario its gonna suck.

ramtour420 wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:Only due diligence needed, if we get the first pick, is asking Zion in which part of town would he like the Knicks to buy his penthouse.

Don't think anyone is trading the first pick or the chance to draft Zion. This is not anything like last years scenario and comparing Luka to Trae. Neither who half the athletic ability that Zion has. Which imo now seems like a mistake as well. This kid is just not someone you pass on. He is a freak of nature. I don't care if he ever learns how to shoot a three. He has so much more value in regards to finishing on fast breaks, slashing to the basket, ability to defend at all positions, rebounding and ability to be the best athlete on the court. Biggest thing for me is the kid has an incredible motor. If someone can name the last guy who was 6'7 285 with this kind of motor, I am all ears.

In terms of possible moves that may be available, I could see if we get the 2nd pick, we should look to trade down a few spots and pick up an asset or two. As I see it, the 2 to 6 is pretty interchangeable.

Btw, this seems like just another jinx thread to knock us the fuck out of top 3.

No, it is not just another. . . How dare you throw such accusations around! We are not drafting Zion. We would need to get the #1 pick for that. Thats 14% chance. Forgetabboutit. This is not the jinx thread. Far from it. I don't think jinxing works like that anyway. I am not sure how it works or if it works, actually. To knock us out of the top 3 you might have to start a thread with a title of something like 'Knicks are gonna win the lottery and we are finally getting our savior in Zion. ' That would be jinxing. This thread here is being realistic and trying to have a civilized discussion and such. Again, we are not grafting Zion. Not gonna happen. Like at all. Its gonna be alright tho, and in worst case scenario its gonna suck.

VCoug wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

In two games without Williamson, who suffered a Grade 1 right knee sprain in the opening minute of Wednesday’s loss to No. 8 North Carolina, the 6-foot-7 Barrett averaged 31.5 points, nine rebounds, six assists and made 25-of-42 shots from the field. He carried No. 1 Duke past Syracuse at the Carrier Dome on Saturday, making sure the Blue Devils wouldn’t lose consecutive games for the first time this season.

Whoever doesn’t land Williamson with the top pick in the draft is going to be thrilled to get a player like Barrett.

really like this kid, if KD is really on board, then you go with Barrett over Zion

try watching Duke. Barret over Zion? Boy you say some dopey stuff bro but that is special

If you like talent over need, thats you preference, it's not dopey, your such a one track mind idiot..

KD, Knox, Zion..all play the same position

If you had steph curry would you draft westbrook over KD..

Even if you're insistent on drafting for fit, Knox is nowhere nearly good enough to be drafting around. He's shooting 33% on 3s (which is what he shot in college), 38% on 2s, and doesn't make any other positive contribution on the court. I understand why people feel you should draft for fit/need even if I completely disagree but if you're going to draft for need can we at least make sure that the player we already have is actually good?

Barret is going to be really good, Zion is obviously the better athlete, but Barrett is a 6 7 sg sniper, who can shoot from anywhere and he can rebound and pass, play the PG/sg/sf position like he has a chance to be "kobe good" and he's true a leader on the court.

knicks1248 wrote:

VCoug wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

In two games without Williamson, who suffered a Grade 1 right knee sprain in the opening minute of Wednesday’s loss to No. 8 North Carolina, the 6-foot-7 Barrett averaged 31.5 points, nine rebounds, six assists and made 25-of-42 shots from the field. He carried No. 1 Duke past Syracuse at the Carrier Dome on Saturday, making sure the Blue Devils wouldn’t lose consecutive games for the first time this season.

Whoever doesn’t land Williamson with the top pick in the draft is going to be thrilled to get a player like Barrett.

really like this kid, if KD is really on board, then you go with Barrett over Zion

try watching Duke. Barret over Zion? Boy you say some dopey stuff bro but that is special

If you like talent over need, thats you preference, it's not dopey, your such a one track mind idiot..

KD, Knox, Zion..all play the same position

If you had steph curry would you draft westbrook over KD..

Even if you're insistent on drafting for fit, Knox is nowhere nearly good enough to be drafting around. He's shooting 33% on 3s (which is what he shot in college), 38% on 2s, and doesn't make any other positive contribution on the court. I understand why people feel you should draft for fit/need even if I completely disagree but if you're going to draft for need can we at least make sure that the player we already have is actually good?

Barret is going to be really good, Zion is obviously the better athlete, but Barrett is a 6 7 sg sniper, who can shoot from anywhere and he can rebound and pass, play the PG/sg/sf position like he has a chance to be "kobe good" and he's true a leader on the court.

It's fine if you like RJ better, though he also plays the same position as KD and Knox, even if you're wrong. I don't know how you're calling him a sniper, dude's shooting 33% on 3s and 68% on FTs; that's barely better than Zion.