Knicks · I think we should sell high on Trier... (page 1)

Trier has a lot of offensive firepower and def exceeded expectations as a rookie. That said, I can't get past his lousy body language, looking off Hardaway Jr and being a gunner in his rookie season. He also seems not well liked by some of his teammates (maybe bad for team chemistry)? With everyone talking about dumping Frank and maybe DSJr - should we consider moving Trier instead? Know he's friends with KD but he just seems worse then Knox and DSJr as far as being a ball stopper and not a great teammate. The good thing is he has some value as he was a surprise last season. Just want guys that are unselfish and team oriented - he seems like a bit of a knucklehead. Can we resign and then trade him this offseason? What do you think we could get for him if we did move him?

jskinny35 wrote:Trier has a lot of offensive firepower and def exceeded expectations as a rookie. That said, I can't get past his lousy body language, looking off Hardaway Jr and being a gunner in his rookie season. He also seems not well liked by some of his teammates (maybe bad for team chemistry)? With everyone talking about dumping Frank and maybe DSJr - should we consider moving Trier instead? Know he's friends with KD but he just seems worse then Knox and DSJr as far as being a ball stopper and not a great teammate. The good thing is he has some value as he was a surprise last season. Just want guys that are unselfish and team oriented - he seems like a bit of a knucklehead. Can we resign and then trade him this offseason? What do you think we could get for him if we did move him?

I like Trier and have so far seen not a ton wrong in terms of attitude. He’s an active and aggressive player and that’s good! With that said, I would definitely sell high on him if we end up keeping RJ Barrett (which I hope we do) bc Barrett is most likely a far upgraded version of Trier. Maybe trade Dennis and Trier to a team expected to be mediocre next year and we can get their first round pick.

Truth be said .. I would like to keep all our young guards, especially Trier Frank Dotson DSJr, and Akeem (No Mudiay) however, I would like for each of our guards to be thoroughly Coached by Mark Jackson this upcoming season to see the best performance each guard has to offer given a winning system to perform at. Something our current head coach Fizdale showed to be clueless of in Memphis and NYC.

Kemet wrote:Truth be said .. I would like to keep all our young guards, especially Trier Frank Dotson DSJr, and Akeem (No Mudiay) however, I would like for each of our guards to be thoroughly Coached by Mark Jackson this upcoming season to see the best performance each guard has to offer given a winning system to perform at. Something our current head coach Fizdale showed to be clueless of in Memphis and NYC.

I agree with you. Get rid of Fizz get Jackson in here ASAP. I’m not even a fan of his but I know he is better than Fizz.

Vmart wrote:

Kemet wrote:Truth be said .. I would like to keep all our young guards, especially Trier Frank Dotson DSJr, and Akeem (No Mudiay) however, I would like for each of our guards to be thoroughly Coached by Mark Jackson this upcoming season to see the best performance each guard has to offer given a winning system to perform at. Something our current head coach Fizdale showed to be clueless of in Memphis and NYC.

I agree with you. Get rid of Fizz get Jackson in here ASAP. I’m not even a fan of his but I know he is better than Fizz.

So then why Jackson?

Allanfan20 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Kemet wrote:Truth be said .. I would like to keep all our young guards, especially Trier Frank Dotson DSJr, and Akeem (No Mudiay) however, I would like for each of our guards to be thoroughly Coached by Mark Jackson this upcoming season to see the best performance each guard has to offer given a winning system to perform at. Something our current head coach Fizdale showed to be clueless of in Memphis and NYC.

I agree with you. Get rid of Fizz get Jackson in here ASAP. I’m not even a fan of his but I know he is better than Fizz.

So then why Jackson?

He took three player not draft top and developed their game to a point where it perpetrated winning. So why not get Jackson back to develop Barrett, Smith, Frank, Knox and MR. he is proven.

Vmart wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Kemet wrote:Truth be said .. I would like to keep all our young guards, especially Trier Frank Dotson DSJr, and Akeem (No Mudiay) however, I would like for each of our guards to be thoroughly Coached by Mark Jackson this upcoming season to see the best performance each guard has to offer given a winning system to perform at. Something our current head coach Fizdale showed to be clueless of in Memphis and NYC.

I agree with you. Get rid of Fizz get Jackson in here ASAP. I’m not even a fan of his but I know he is better than Fizz.

So then why Jackson?

He took three player not draft top and developed their game to a point where it perpetrated winning. So why not get Jackson back to develop Barrett, Smith, Frank, Knox and MR. he is proven.

Jackson favored an ISO heavy offense in GS, isnt that what we are trying to avoid?

So you want Trier to stay if Mark Jackson comes aboard? While I'm not sure how Fiz actually is as a coach (since last year seemed like JV warm-ups), I would not want Mark Jackson for the same reason I wouldn't want Jason Kidd. I think his ego and inability to work with others is his downfall. Can't disagree with you on his motivating tactics, success at GS, and he was a heady point guard for us. Just don't trust him as he (and Kidd) always seem to positioning themselves for their own best interests. I want a selfless strong leader, especially with all these young guys. I think Mark would do well for a year or two and then something will go wrong. Past history suggests he'll have another off the court scandal or have conflict with other coaches or management or ownership... we don't need any more of that - we already survived the Isiah GM years

GustavBahler wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Kemet wrote:Truth be said .. I would like to keep all our young guards, especially Trier Frank Dotson DSJr, and Akeem (No Mudiay) however, I would like for each of our guards to be thoroughly Coached by Mark Jackson this upcoming season to see the best performance each guard has to offer given a winning system to perform at. Something our current head coach Fizdale showed to be clueless of in Memphis and NYC.

I agree with you. Get rid of Fizz get Jackson in here ASAP. I’m not even a fan of his but I know he is better than Fizz.

So then why Jackson?

He took three player not draft top and developed their game to a point where it perpetrated winning. So why not get Jackson back to develop Barrett, Smith, Frank, Knox and MR. he is proven.

Jackson favored an ISO heavy offense in GS, isnt that what we are trying to avoid?

From 2011 to 2013, Mark Jackson and complimentary player David Lee cured all the ISO performance out of Curry Klay Bogut and Green, making them perform at a high-level of team-ball chemistry, by having the defense on the same-page every time the lineup went on a run. Curry and Klay will tell u today that Mark Jackson is a Great Head-Coach!
Mark Jackson got a long well with the coaching staff and the players .. he did not get a long so well with any of GS front-office. That's why GS Warriors hired Kerr as the GM/Coach.

Kemet wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Kemet wrote:Truth be said .. I would like to keep all our young guards, especially Trier Frank Dotson DSJr, and Akeem (No Mudiay) however, I would like for each of our guards to be thoroughly Coached by Mark Jackson this upcoming season to see the best performance each guard has to offer given a winning system to perform at. Something our current head coach Fizdale showed to be clueless of in Memphis and NYC.

I agree with you. Get rid of Fizz get Jackson in here ASAP. I’m not even a fan of his but I know he is better than Fizz.

So then why Jackson?

He took three player not draft top and developed their game to a point where it perpetrated winning. So why not get Jackson back to develop Barrett, Smith, Frank, Knox and MR. he is proven.

Jackson favored an ISO heavy offense in GS, isnt that what we are trying to avoid?

From 2011 to 2013, Mark Jackson and complimentary player David Lee cured all the ISO performance out of Curry Klay Bogut and Green, making them perform at a high-level of team-ball chemistry, by having the defense on the same-page every time the lineup went on a run. Curry and Klay will tell u today that Mark Jackson is a Great Head-Coach!
Mark Jackson got a long well with the coaching staff and the players .. he did not get a long so well with any of GS front-office. That's why GS Warriors hired Kerr as the GM/Coach.

Saw this panel on espn with Doc Rivers. Was talking about GS. Said that the first thing Kerr did was to no longer let Curry dominate the ball. Rivers said that Curry touched the ball 55 percent less that first year, and they won a title.

Didnt need to hear that stat to know that the ball moved a lot more after Jackson left. Was popular with players, not with his assistants, mgmt. Vacancies open up all the time and Jackson doesnt look like he is getting interviewed. Believe what happened in GS scared teams off.

jskinny35 wrote:So you want Trier to stay if Mark Jackson comes aboard? While I'm not sure how Fiz actually is as a coach (since last year seemed like JV warm-ups), I would not want Mark Jackson for the same reason I wouldn't want Jason Kidd. I think his ego and inability to work with others is his downfall. Can't disagree with you on his motivating tactics, success at GS, and he was a heady point guard for us. Just don't trust him as he (and Kidd) always seem to positioning themselves for their own best interests. I want a selfless strong leader, especially with all these young guys. I think Mark would do well for a year or two and then something will go wrong. Past history suggests he'll have another off the court scandal or have conflict with other coaches or management or ownership... we don't need any more of that - we already survived the Isiah GM years

Aren't the Lakers in agreement to hire Jason Kidd as an assistant-coach .. you dont think Kidd's coaching will be good for Ball Hart, and Caruso growth as a leadership play-maker?

GustavBahler wrote:

Kemet wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Kemet wrote:Truth be said .. I would like to keep all our young guards, especially Trier Frank Dotson DSJr, and Akeem (No Mudiay) however, I would like for each of our guards to be thoroughly Coached by Mark Jackson this upcoming season to see the best performance each guard has to offer given a winning system to perform at. Something our current head coach Fizdale showed to be clueless of in Memphis and NYC.

I agree with you. Get rid of Fizz get Jackson in here ASAP. I’m not even a fan of his but I know he is better than Fizz.

So then why Jackson?

He took three player not draft top and developed their game to a point where it perpetrated winning. So why not get Jackson back to develop Barrett, Smith, Frank, Knox and MR. he is proven.

Jackson favored an ISO heavy offense in GS, isnt that what we are trying to avoid?

From 2011 to 2013, Mark Jackson and complimentary player David Lee cured all the ISO performance out of Curry Klay Bogut and Green, making them perform at a high-level of team-ball chemistry, by having the defense on the same-page every time the lineup went on a run. Curry and Klay will tell u today that Mark Jackson is a Great Head-Coach!
Mark Jackson got a long well with the coaching staff and the players .. he did not get a long so well with any of GS front-office. That's why GS Warriors hired Kerr as the GM/Coach.

Saw this panel on espn with Doc Rivers. Was talking about GS. Said that the first thing Kerr did was to no longer let Curry dominate the ball. Rivers said that Curry touched the ball 55 percent less that first year, and they won a title.

Didnt need to hear that stat to know that the ball moved a lot more after Jackson left. Was popular with players, not with his assistants, mgmt. Vacancies open up all the time and Jackson doesnt look like he is getting interviewed. Believe what happened in GS scared teams off.

Mark Jackson first season coaching GS, he had Curry passing the ball to make Ellis and Lee the top scorers for GS. The 2nd year of Mark's coaching was when Curry lead the team in scoring.

You're not getting a first rounder for Trier -- so the only reason would be to create more cap space.

Kemet wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Kemet wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Kemet wrote:Truth be said .. I would like to keep all our young guards, especially Trier Frank Dotson DSJr, and Akeem (No Mudiay) however, I would like for each of our guards to be thoroughly Coached by Mark Jackson this upcoming season to see the best performance each guard has to offer given a winning system to perform at. Something our current head coach Fizdale showed to be clueless of in Memphis and NYC.

I agree with you. Get rid of Fizz get Jackson in here ASAP. I’m not even a fan of his but I know he is better than Fizz.

So then why Jackson?

He took three player not draft top and developed their game to a point where it perpetrated winning. So why not get Jackson back to develop Barrett, Smith, Frank, Knox and MR. he is proven.

Jackson favored an ISO heavy offense in GS, isnt that what we are trying to avoid?

From 2011 to 2013, Mark Jackson and complimentary player David Lee cured all the ISO performance out of Curry Klay Bogut and Green, making them perform at a high-level of team-ball chemistry, by having the defense on the same-page every time the lineup went on a run. Curry and Klay will tell u today that Mark Jackson is a Great Head-Coach!
Mark Jackson got a long well with the coaching staff and the players .. he did not get a long so well with any of GS front-office. That's why GS Warriors hired Kerr as the GM/Coach.

Saw this panel on espn with Doc Rivers. Was talking about GS. Said that the first thing Kerr did was to no longer let Curry dominate the ball. Rivers said that Curry touched the ball 55 percent less that first year, and they won a title.

Didnt need to hear that stat to know that the ball moved a lot more after Jackson left. Was popular with players, not with his assistants, mgmt. Vacancies open up all the time and Jackson doesnt look like he is getting interviewed. Believe what happened in GS scared teams off.

Mark Jackson first season coaching GS, he had Curry passing the ball to make Ellis and Lee the top scorers for GS. The 2nd year of Mark's coaching was when Curry lead the team in scoring.

None of what you said refutes the fact that the ball moved more after Jackson left, which was instrumental in GS winning a ring.

Kemet wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:So you want Trier to stay if Mark Jackson comes aboard? While I'm not sure how Fiz actually is as a coach (since last year seemed like JV warm-ups), I would not want Mark Jackson for the same reason I wouldn't want Jason Kidd. I think his ego and inability to work with others is his downfall. Can't disagree with you on his motivating tactics, success at GS, and he was a heady point guard for us. Just don't trust him as he (and Kidd) always seem to positioning themselves for their own best interests. I want a selfless strong leader, especially with all these young guys. I think Mark would do well for a year or two and then something will go wrong. Past history suggests he'll have another off the court scandal or have conflict with other coaches or management or ownership... we don't need any more of that - we already survived the Isiah GM years

Aren't the Lakers in agreement to hire Jason Kidd as an assistant-coach .. you dont think Kidd's coaching will be good for Ball Hart, and Caruso growth as a leadership play-maker?

I think both Kidd and MJax connect with young players and do well developing... but they can't seem to get along with all parties and come with drama/off court immature stuff. Kidd had DV charges and was always angling to improve his job situation (eg NJ to Milw). MJax had a stripper or public infidelity situation, had assistant coaches secretly taping him (to cover themselves) and couldn't figure out how to coexist with the owners (his bosses). I would take either as an assistant but wouldn't trust them to stay in those roles and not back stab the coaches above...

KnickDanger wrote:You're not getting a first rounder for Trier -- so the only reason would be to create more cap space.

But if New Orleans trades Davis to LeBron for #4 and a host of young players, would they trade us the #1 pick for Trier, DSjr, Frank and the #3?

I think that is a pretty good haul and you could argue makes sense for both NO & NYK.

Kerr did not get along great with assistant coaches. Big reason he got fired. Look it up.
Misused Dray. Look it up.
Just cuz Jax did x with one player, does not mean it gets repeated with others.

For all the reasons to move Trier, its like we should trade him because he won’t be that on another team?
Fiz is not going away anytime soon. Its laughable to bring in a gay bashing paranoid misogamist adulterant ordained minister to replace a very liked coach we invested in money, time, and personnel.

I like Trier but we should always be looking to sell high. With RJ coming, there is not as high a need for Trier but the kid can play and add to our team, so I would not be just giving him away. I would want a 1st round pick at least.

Reason to keep Trier, at least for the time being, is simple: KD! He likes the kid and it's exactly the wrong message to send that we jettison players. After KD signs (or doesn't) THEN we can sell high on Trier. I agree about his attitude...seems like a me-first player. Can take time to ween immature dudes off that AAU-diva mindset.

GustavBahler wrote:

Kemet wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Kemet wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

Kemet wrote:Truth be said .. I would like to keep all our young guards, especially Trier Frank Dotson DSJr, and Akeem (No Mudiay) however, I would like for each of our guards to be thoroughly Coached by Mark Jackson this upcoming season to see the best performance each guard has to offer given a winning system to perform at. Something our current head coach Fizdale showed to be clueless of in Memphis and NYC.

I agree with you. Get rid of Fizz get Jackson in here ASAP. I’m not even a fan of his but I know he is better than Fizz.

So then why Jackson?

He took three player not draft top and developed their game to a point where it perpetrated winning. So why not get Jackson back to develop Barrett, Smith, Frank, Knox and MR. he is proven.

Jackson favored an ISO heavy offense in GS, isnt that what we are trying to avoid?

From 2011 to 2013, Mark Jackson and complimentary player David Lee cured all the ISO performance out of Curry Klay Bogut and Green, making them perform at a high-level of team-ball chemistry, by having the defense on the same-page every time the lineup went on a run. Curry and Klay will tell u today that Mark Jackson is a Great Head-Coach!
Mark Jackson got a long well with the coaching staff and the players .. he did not get a long so well with any of GS front-office. That's why GS Warriors hired Kerr as the GM/Coach.

Saw this panel on espn with Doc Rivers. Was talking about GS. Said that the first thing Kerr did was to no longer let Curry dominate the ball. Rivers said that Curry touched the ball 55 percent less that first year, and they won a title.

Didnt need to hear that stat to know that the ball moved a lot more after Jackson left. Was popular with players, not with his assistants, mgmt. Vacancies open up all the time and Jackson doesnt look like he is getting interviewed. Believe what happened in GS scared teams off.

Mark Jackson first season coaching GS, he had Curry passing the ball to make Ellis and Lee the top scorers for GS. The 2nd year of Mark's coaching was when Curry lead the team in scoring.

None of what you said refutes the fact that the ball moved more after Jackson left, which was instrumental in GS winning a ring.

Fizdale is the opposite of Mark, can't coach, but gets along with everybody

The only thing he did was Keep morale High, and that's little scary knowing he got guys to accept losing.

Trier didn't get drafted despite his talent, he has me me attitude and and tries to prove himself with highlight losing plays.

I do think he can change that around with the right coach and vets...It's a reason the locker room was split on him

call me nuts, but I think we have more to gain by keeping our guys. I'd like to see how Trier looks this year. If it makes sense to deal him I'd just assume wait until that becomes clear and that will be by the deadline. The only guy I would move is Frank because he just doesn't fit here. Postionless implies everyone has to be able to move the ball, which he can do, and shoot, which he can't. I think he has demostrated his value on the defensive side though and would think we could get a late first for him