Knicks · Can Julius Randle Run Point Forward? (page 2)

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Randle is a lottery talent who is at the perfect stage of his career. Where he has established what he is good at to the point where he can grow his untapped potential which is capitalzing on his guard/forward type handle & quickness wrapped in a bull dog physique and mentality.

You can tell by the offseason training that he has worked on being a point forward type that can handle & stretch the floor more so than a banger in the paint.

But the big picture if having Randle, Barrett, Smith/Peyton all be able to handle point duties and create for others. Where the ball flows constantly creating high % shots.

It all depends on the lineup, I guess. There are lineup combinations that might have him as one of the best spot up shooters on the floor. I know that sounds crazy, but he's made steady improvements. I think he can initiate early on offense and find guys in their spots. I might still prefer him more as finisher when th game slows down. Again, it depends on the rotation. As for him getting tired, I guess it's a good thing we did sign those 20 PFs

that's pretty funny..

But yeah, that was my major concerned, that at the end of games he would have no legs.

The one question that no media member has ask is, how deep will you rotations be, 9, 10, 11 or 12

This roster reminds me of a less talented version of that Nuggets team, post melo trade. We can run a number of guys out and maybe win some games through attrition. Payton and Frank defending players at the top could tire guys out. I don't know how much Ellington and Bullock have left, but we have guys who can pressure on the wings. I'm interested to see what direction Fiz takes.

I see this team very capable of doing what the Nets and clippers did last season. and a huge part of their success was COACHING and system. They had pieces that fit, and they didn't waiver from their system at no point, even after a few losses and key injuries..

I'm hoping we don't have to deal with 40 different line ups and 20 different rotations just to give players PT or because we loss a few games in a row

Did you think the Nets had great coaching when they were 20-62 and 28-54 in the two years before last? Cause it was the staff. Just wondering where you stand on that. Did they just learn to coach this LAST year? Was there a process involved? 20 wins aint much better than 17....

Kenny A was cut from the MDA cloth, I knew he would be a solid coach and he uses his system for the most part, he just didn't have the pieces that fit. They made some significant in season trades his first 2 seasons.

Fiz roster is a rugged rough rag tag bunch, that if they play hard and smart and are well prepared, can win 40 games.

mike woodson made a few minor tweeks( for melo's sake) and used MDA's system as well.

The nets didn't even have draft picks either

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Randle is a lottery talent who is at the perfect stage of his career. Where he has established what he is good at to the point where he can grow his untapped potential which is capitalzing on his guard/forward type handle & quickness wrapped in a bull dog physique and mentality.

You can tell by the offseason training that he has worked on being a point forward type that can handle & stretch the floor more so than a banger in the paint.

But the big picture if having Randle, Barrett, Smith/Peyton all be able to handle point duties and create for others. Where the ball flows constantly creating high % shots.

It all depends on the lineup, I guess. There are lineup combinations that might have him as one of the best spot up shooters on the floor. I know that sounds crazy, but he's made steady improvements. I think he can initiate early on offense and find guys in their spots. I might still prefer him more as finisher when th game slows down. Again, it depends on the rotation. As for him getting tired, I guess it's a good thing we did sign those 20 PFs

that's pretty funny..

But yeah, that was my major concerned, that at the end of games he would have no legs.

The one question that no media member has ask is, how deep will you rotations be, 9, 10, 11 or 12

This roster reminds me of a less talented version of that Nuggets team, post melo trade. We can run a number of guys out and maybe win some games through attrition. Payton and Frank defending players at the top could tire guys out. I don't know how much Ellington and Bullock have left, but we have guys who can pressure on the wings. I'm interested to see what direction Fiz takes.

I see this team very capable of doing what the Nets and clippers did last season. and a huge part of their success was COACHING and system. They had pieces that fit, and they didn't waiver from their system at no point, even after a few losses and key injuries..

I'm hoping we don't have to deal with 40 different line ups and 20 different rotations just to give players PT or because we loss a few games in a row

Did you think the Nets had great coaching when they were 20-62 and 28-54 in the two years before last? Cause it was the staff. Just wondering where you stand on that. Did they just learn to coach this LAST year? Was there a process involved? 20 wins aint much better than 17....

Kenny A was cut from the MDA cloth, I knew he would be a solid coach and he uses his system for the most part, he just didn't have the pieces that fit. They made some significant in season trades his first 2 seasons.

Fiz roster is a rugged rough rag tag bunch, that if they play hard and smart and are well prepared, can win 40 games.

mike woodson made a few minor tweeks( for melo's sake) and used MDA's system as well.

The nets didn't even have draft picks either

Wait, do that for the Knicks and Fiz.

I'll help you. Fiz was cut from the Riley/Erik Spoelstra cloth, blah blah blah, he just didn't have the pieces that fit. They made some significant in season trades his first season.

I knew this Point fwd thing would be overwhelming for him, especially since he never once had that role.

while his numbers don't look bad, you can tell that he's not comfortable in that role, and is pressing and over thinking.

That spin move looks good that he does, looks good when he works, but more so than not it results in a T O.

Not only that, he's handle is not even avg enough to to this for more than a few possessions..

knicks1248 wrote:I knew this Point fwd thing would be overwhelming for him, especially since he never once had that role.

while his numbers don't look bad, you can tell that he's not comfortable in that role, and is pressing and over thinking.

That spin move looks good that he does, looks good when he works, but more so than not it results in a T O.

Not only that, he's handle is not even avg enough to to this for more than a few possessions..

you called it bruh!

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I knew this Point fwd thing would be overwhelming for him, especially since he never once had that role.

while his numbers don't look bad, you can tell that he's not comfortable in that role, and is pressing and over thinking.

That spin move looks good that he does, looks good when it works, but more so than not it results in a T O.

Not only that, his handle is not even avg enough to do this for more than a few possessions..

you called it bruh!

I'm just curious to know how on earth did fiz think this was a good role for him as if he seen him do it before.

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I knew this Point fwd thing would be overwhelming for him, especially since he never once had that role.

while his numbers don't look bad, you can tell that he's not comfortable in that role, and is pressing and over thinking.

That spin move looks good that he does, looks good when it works, but more so than not it results in a T O.

Not only that, his handle is not even avg enough to do this for more than a few possessions..

you called it bruh!

I'm just curious to know how on earth did fiz think this was a good role for him as if he seen him do it before.

If you actually watch you can see Randle is going to be very good at the roll. Simple triangle like plays where he gets the ball in the high post and dives or hits cutters. Not every point foward needs to be Magic Johnson. Randle is a good guy to run offense through. He's moves in the paint and good. His handle isnt, and the passing will improve with time and chemistry. Guys will start making better cuts and Randle will know before anyone. That shit takes time man. Randle has a good skill set for this role. Let him develop into it as well. This is the time to work on growing pains.

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I knew this Point fwd thing would be overwhelming for him, especially since he never once had that role.

while his numbers don't look bad, you can tell that he's not comfortable in that role, and is pressing and over thinking.

That spin move looks good that he does, looks good when it works, but more so than not it results in a T O.

Not only that, his handle is not even avg enough to do this for more than a few possessions..

you called it bruh!

I'm just curious to know how on earth did fiz think this was a good role for him as if he seen him do it before.

If you actually watch you can see Randle is going to be very good at the roll. Simple triangle like plays where he gets the ball in the high post and dives or hits cutters. Not every point foward needs to be Magic Johnson. Randle is a good guy to run offense through. He's moves in the paint and good. His handle isnt, and the passing will improve with time and chemistry. Guys will start making better cuts and Randle will know before anyone. That shit takes time man. Randle has a good skill set for this role. Let him develop into it as well. This is the time to work on growing pains.

I can agree, but Teams will also adjust, which is what the magic did last night, and Fiz does not make good adjustments.

The question I have is why is fiz trying to turn Randle into a full time LBJ?

Is that the only way we can run our offense?

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I knew this Point fwd thing would be overwhelming for him, especially since he never once had that role.

while his numbers don't look bad, you can tell that he's not comfortable in that role, and is pressing and over thinking.

That spin move looks good that he does, looks good when it works, but more so than not it results in a T O.

Not only that, his handle is not even avg enough to do this for more than a few possessions..

you called it bruh!

I'm just curious to know how on earth did fiz think this was a good role for him as if he seen him do it before.

If you actually watch you can see Randle is going to be very good at the roll. Simple triangle like plays where he gets the ball in the high post and dives or hits cutters. Not every point foward needs to be Magic Johnson. Randle is a good guy to run offense through. He's moves in the paint and good. His handle isnt, and the passing will improve with time and chemistry. Guys will start making better cuts and Randle will know before anyone. That shit takes time man. Randle has a good skill set for this role. Let him develop into it as well. This is the time to work on growing pains.

I can agree, but Teams will also adjust, which is what the magic did last night, and Fiz does not make good adjustments.

The question I have is why is fiz trying to turn Randle into a full time LBJ?

Is that the only way we can run our offense?

that is just not happening. At all. Randle's usage is lower this year than its been his last TWO years. Fizdale hasnt give him any more touches than other coaches. Fizdale is asking him to pass more and set up teammates. Thats it man

If you watch randle dribble his body and dribble aren't in sync. His body moves too fast for his dribble. same with portis,they are both 3 dribble post move players.

knicks1248 wrote:I knew this Point fwd thing would be overwhelming for him, especially since he never once had that role.

while his numbers don't look bad, you can tell that he's not comfortable in that role, and is pressing and over thinking.

That spin move looks good that he does, looks good when he works, but more so than not it results in a T O.

Not only that, he's handle is not even avg enough to to this for more than a few possessions..

COMPLETLY AGREE!!!

personally, I am against anyone getting any point responsibilities when their assist to turnover ratio is 0.08. Randle can move it but he can't protect it so no thanks

Now if he could stop dribbling off his own feet and stop dribbling straight into double and triple teams

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martin wrote:Now if he could stop dribbling off his own feet and stop dribbling straight into double and triple teams

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very much agree!!!

Someone posted this on Knicks Reddit. You notice that Randle makes a few plays facing up and he still bobbles the ball a few times. But most of these highlights are him running downhill on the break, finishing out of the dunker spot, finding gaps and cutting to the hoop, finishing off the PnR, facing up from short to mid-range where he doesn't need to take too many dribbles. He's been miscast with us so far. I wonder if the Point Randle experiment would work better when we play him at center. Right now, he's better as finisher for us at the forward spot.

BigDaddyG wrote:Someone posted this on Knicks Reddit. You notice that Randle makes a few plays facing up and he still bobbles the ball a few times. But most of these highlights are him running downhill on the break, finishing out of the dunker spot, finding gaps and cutting to the hoop, finishing off the PnR, facing up from short to mid-range where he doesn't need to take too many dribbles. He's been miscast with us so far. I wonder if the Point Randle experiment would work better when we play him at center. Right now, he's better as finisher for us at the forward spot.

We'd get nailed on rim protection

TPercy wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Someone posted this on Knicks Reddit. You notice that Randle makes a few plays facing up and he still bobbles the ball a few times. But most of these highlights are him running downhill on the break, finishing out of the dunker spot, finding gaps and cutting to the hoop, finishing off the PnR, facing up from short to mid-range where he doesn't need to take too many dribbles. He's been miscast with us so far. I wonder if the Point Randle experiment would work better when we play him at center. Right now, he's better as finisher for us at the forward spot.

We'd get nailed on rim protection

Maybe try it out on small ball units. I agree, it's not a look you should try for an entire game.

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I knew this Point fwd thing would be overwhelming for him, especially since he never once had that role.

while his numbers don't look bad, you can tell that he's not comfortable in that role, and is pressing and over thinking.

That spin move looks good that he does, looks good when it works, but more so than not it results in a T O.

Not only that, his handle is not even avg enough to do this for more than a few possessions..

you called it bruh!

I'm just curious to know how on earth did fiz think this was a good role for him as if he seen him do it before.

If you actually watch you can see Randle is going to be very good at the roll. Simple triangle like plays where he gets the ball in the high post and dives or hits cutters. Not every point foward needs to be Magic Johnson. Randle is a good guy to run offense through. He's moves in the paint and good. His handle isnt, and the passing will improve with time and chemistry. Guys will start making better cuts and Randle will know before anyone. That shit takes time man. Randle has a good skill set for this role. Let him develop into it as well. This is the time to work on growing pains.

add to this that teams are sagging, crowding the paint, and Randle is our only person worth a double team.

He can contribute but is being misused too much at the moment. Most of his TOs (to my eyes at least) are from dribbling, not bad passes

We have to stop criticizing good players, simply because they're not Superman saving our sorry asses.

Julius seems to have his head screwed on straight, plays hard, seems like a good teammate.

At the moment, he's being misused and pressing

BigDaddyG wrote:

TPercy wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:Someone posted this on Knicks Reddit. You notice that Randle makes a few plays facing up and he still bobbles the ball a few times. But most of these highlights are him running downhill on the break, finishing out of the dunker spot, finding gaps and cutting to the hoop, finishing off the PnR, facing up from short to mid-range where he doesn't need to take too many dribbles. He's been miscast with us so far. I wonder if the Point Randle experiment would work better when we play him at center. Right now, he's better as finisher for us at the forward spot.

We'd get nailed on rim protection

Maybe try it out on small ball units. I agree, it's not a look you should try for an entire game.

AND at the end of the day you always have to ask how it nets out. Same argument could be made against Draymond playing C at times has worked for GSW and far from a guarantee Julius at 5 would be better -- but worth trying at least in practice.

The biggest issue is his dribble AND in traffic. He's complaining about doubles but as others have noted he also dribbles into them. He's not throwing the ball away.

Because I can't help myself, I blame Fizz. He seems to have a penchant for having players play to their weaknesses. Yes, Frank can guard multiple positions, but that doesn't mean you should start him at 2 or 3 (last year). Yes RJ can handle the ball and reminds Fizz of Kawhi (no that doesn't mean he should be pg -- this much). Yes Julius can pass/facilitate (but he can't dribble in traffic)

We have an awful roster right now compounded by clueless coaching

At the moment, our philosophy seems to be, we'll tire out our best players while they play ISO on offense, and at least 4 of your guys will be able to take a breather

We had all that FA money plus traded KP and we don't have a pg who can spread the floor even with an open shot -- 3 of them!! This is compounded by having a SG who also doesn't spread the floor (I love RJ but the point is still the same).

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I knew this Point fwd thing would be overwhelming for him, especially since he never once had that role.

while his numbers don't look bad, you can tell that he's not comfortable in that role, and is pressing and over thinking.

That spin move looks good that he does, looks good when it works, but more so than not it results in a T O.

Not only that, his handle is not even avg enough to do this for more than a few possessions..

you called it bruh!

I'm just curious to know how on earth did fiz think this was a good role for him as if he seen him do it before.

If you actually watch you can see Randle is going to be very good at the roll. Simple triangle like plays where he gets the ball in the high post and dives or hits cutters. Not every point foward needs to be Magic Johnson. Randle is a good guy to run offense through. He's moves in the paint and good. His handle isnt, and the passing will improve with time and chemistry. Guys will start making better cuts and Randle will know before anyone. That shit takes time man. Randle has a good skill set for this role. Let him develop into it as well. This is the time to work on growing pains.

add to this that teams are sagging, crowding the paint, and Randle is our only person worth a double team.

He can contribute but is being misused too much at the moment. Most of his TOs (to my eyes at least) are from dribbling, not bad passes

We have to stop criticizing good players, simply because they're not Superman saving our sorry asses.

Julius seems to have his head screwed on straight, plays hard, seems like a good teammate.

At the moment, he's being misused and pressing

He is definitely pressing the No Defense button pretty hard

martin wrote:

Chandler wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I knew this Point fwd thing would be overwhelming for him, especially since he never once had that role.

while his numbers don't look bad, you can tell that he's not comfortable in that role, and is pressing and over thinking.

That spin move looks good that he does, looks good when it works, but more so than not it results in a T O.

Not only that, his handle is not even avg enough to do this for more than a few possessions..

you called it bruh!

I'm just curious to know how on earth did fiz think this was a good role for him as if he seen him do it before.

If you actually watch you can see Randle is going to be very good at the roll. Simple triangle like plays where he gets the ball in the high post and dives or hits cutters. Not every point foward needs to be Magic Johnson. Randle is a good guy to run offense through. He's moves in the paint and good. His handle isnt, and the passing will improve with time and chemistry. Guys will start making better cuts and Randle will know before anyone. That shit takes time man. Randle has a good skill set for this role. Let him develop into it as well. This is the time to work on growing pains.

add to this that teams are sagging, crowding the paint, and Randle is our only person worth a double team.

He can contribute but is being misused too much at the moment. Most of his TOs (to my eyes at least) are from dribbling, not bad passes

We have to stop criticizing good players, simply because they're not Superman saving our sorry asses.

Julius seems to have his head screwed on straight, plays hard, seems like a good teammate.

At the moment, he's being misused and pressing

He is definitely pressing the No Defense button pretty hard

He's giving effort at the very least...we'll see how long that even lasts at the 20 game mark.

No

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