Knicks · Can Julius Randle Run Point Forward? (page 1)

David Fizdale laid out some things he would like to do on offense. One of them included using Julius Randle as point forward and as the ball handler in the pick and roll. What do you think, can Randle run point forward?

NBK wrote:David Fizdale laid out some things he would like to do on offense. One of them included using Julius Randle as point forward and as the ball handler in the pick and roll. What do you think, can Randle run point forward?

If he’s a willing passer who can spot his teammates, then yes. If he wants to Carmello Anthony dat ass, then no.

why not give it a try? the more guys in the lineup that are looking for teammates the more movement and varied looks we should be able to show.

Sounds like were going into the season like last season.."Throw it on the wall and see if it sticks"

If he grabs a board I can see him just taking it down court to keep the defense on their heels, but to say you deliberately using him as a point fwd like he has handle and vision like Labron, pippen or Mason..is kind of crazy..

For 1 randle is suppose to be our go to guy, he also has an incentive to be the DOY, now you want him to bring the ball up..thats too much, especially when you have 5 guards who can do that.

Point Taken!

knicks1248 wrote:Sounds like were going into the season like last season.."Throw it on the wall and see if it sticks"

If he grabs a board I can see him just taking it down court to keep the defense on their heels, but to say you deliberately using him as a point fwd like he has handle and vision like Labron, pippen or Mason..is kind of crazy..

For 1 randle is suppose to be our go to guy, he also has an incentive to be the DOY, now you want him to bring the ball up..thats too much, especially when you have 5 guards who can do that.

If he's plays point forward at times, and he's the handler in the pick and roll, who is the roller? Mitch and Portis I presume. Would definitely need shooters on the floor.

knicks1248 wrote:Sounds like were going into the season like last season.."Throw it on the wall and see if it sticks"

If he grabs a board I can see him just taking it down court to keep the defense on their heels, but to say you deliberately using him as a point fwd like he has handle and vision like Labron, pippen or Mason..is kind of crazy..

For 1 randle is suppose to be our go to guy, he also has an incentive to be the DOY, now you want him to bring the ball up..thats too much, especially when you have 5 guards who can do that.

UPTEMPO! Remember good uptempo offense starts with good defense! If Randle has the ball why not let him a break. Would you rather he stop, hand the ball to PG? If Randle has the handle, we know he has a good midrange shot and can go to the rim. If so, why not let him run a two man game with Mitch, Port or Morris?

If your asking a coach to adapt to the tools he has, its not not throwing stuff out and see what sticks. He has new players, why wouldn't he experiment?

knicks1248 wrote:Sounds like were going into the season like last season.."Throw it on the wall and see if it sticks"

If he grabs a board I can see him just taking it down court to keep the defense on their heels, but to say you deliberately using him as a point fwd like he has handle and vision like Labron, pippen or Mason..is kind of crazy..

For 1 randle is suppose to be our go to guy, he also has an incentive to be the DOY, now you want him to bring the ball up..thats too much, especially when you have 5 guards who can do that.

have you even bothered to look at Randle's play? He gets a lot of assists. He's a good ball mover and a very good passer. Also Dennis Smith is a scorer so Randle running the point forward at the top of the key gives you a lot of nice looks for DS in motion, something he more off. You funny

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Sounds like were going into the season like last season.."Throw it on the wall and see if it sticks"

If he grabs a board I can see him just taking it down court to keep the defense on their heels, but to say you deliberately using him as a point fwd like he has handle and vision like Labron, pippen or Mason..is kind of crazy..

For 1 randle is suppose to be our go to guy, he also has an incentive to be the DOY, now you want him to bring the ball up..thats too much, especially when you have 5 guards who can do that.

have you even bothered to look at Randle's play? He gets a lot of assists. He's a good ball mover and a very good passer. Also Dennis Smith is a scorer so Randle running the point forward at the top of the key gives you a lot of nice looks for DS in motion, something he more off. You funny

I'm not concern with him doing it if he rebounds the ball(like i said originally), but when you exerting all that energy on defense, then being the go to scorer, and now bringing up the ball.

That's too much for one player, and what will be the purpose?

It not like were loaded with knock down shooters at the guard position, in fact we have 3 PG's, frank, dsj,and payton that are anything but.

DSJ is a scorer, not a shooter.

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Sounds like were going into the season like last season.."Throw it on the wall and see if it sticks"

If he grabs a board I can see him just taking it down court to keep the defense on their heels, but to say you deliberately using him as a point fwd like he has handle and vision like Labron, pippen or Mason..is kind of crazy..

For 1 randle is suppose to be our go to guy, he also has an incentive to be the DOY, now you want him to bring the ball up..thats too much, especially when you have 5 guards who can do that.

have you even bothered to look at Randle's play? He gets a lot of assists. He's a good ball mover and a very good passer. Also Dennis Smith is a scorer so Randle running the point forward at the top of the key gives you a lot of nice looks for DS in motion, something he more off. You funny

I'm not concern with him doing it if he rebounds the ball(like i said originally), but when you exerting all that energy on defense, then being the go to scorer, and now bringing up the ball.

That's too much for one player, and what will be the purpose?

It not like were loaded with knock down shooters at the guard position, in fact we have 3 PG's, frank, dsj,and payton that are anything but.

DSJ is a scorer, not a shooter.

On Fiz: "One of them included using Julius Randle as point forward and as the ball handler in the pick and roll."

Why did you just take all that to mean he is going to be (constantly) bringing up the ball?

Dude you are like most of the GOP when trying to defend Trump by using the most obtuse explanation for why stuff is happening while bringing in the most irrelevant pieces of made up shit and thinking it's good logic and sounds smart all the while looking pretty fucking lame.

Randle is a lottery talent who is at the perfect stage of his career. Where he has established what he is good at to the point where he can grow his untapped potential which is capitalzing on his guard/forward type handle & quickness wrapped in a bull dog physique and mentality.

You can tell by the offseason training that he has worked on being a point forward type that can handle & stretch the floor more so than a banger in the paint.

But the big picture if having Randle, Barrett, Smith/Peyton all be able to handle point duties and create for others. Where the ball flows constantly creating high % shots.

newyorknewyork wrote:Randle is a lottery talent who is at the perfect stage of his career. Where he has established what he is good at to the point where he can grow his untapped potential which is capitalzing on his guard/forward type handle & quickness wrapped in a bull dog physique and mentality.

You can tell by the offseason training that he has worked on being a point forward type that can handle & stretch the floor more so than a banger in the paint.

But the big picture if having Randle, Barrett, Smith/Peyton all be able to handle point duties and create for others. Where the ball flows constantly creating high % shots.

It all depends on the lineup, I guess. There are lineup combinations that might have him as one of the best spot up shooters on the floor. I know that sounds crazy, but he's made steady improvements. I think he can initiate early on offense and find guys in their spots. I might still prefer him more as finisher when th game slows down. Again, it depends on the rotation. As for him getting tired, I guess it's a good thing we did sign those 20 PFs

BigDaddyG wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Randle is a lottery talent who is at the perfect stage of his career. Where he has established what he is good at to the point where he can grow his untapped potential which is capitalzing on his guard/forward type handle & quickness wrapped in a bull dog physique and mentality.

You can tell by the offseason training that he has worked on being a point forward type that can handle & stretch the floor more so than a banger in the paint.

But the big picture if having Randle, Barrett, Smith/Peyton all be able to handle point duties and create for others. Where the ball flows constantly creating high % shots.

It all depends on the lineup, I guess. There are lineup combinations that might have him as one of the best spot up shooters on the floor. I know that sounds crazy, but he's made steady improvements. I think he can initiate early on offense and find guys in their spots. I might still prefer him more as finisher when th game slows down. Again, it depends on the rotation. As for him getting tired, I guess it's a good thing we did sign those 20 PFs

that's pretty funny..

But yeah, that was my major concerned, that at the end of games he would have no legs.

The one question that no media member has ask is, how deep will you rotations be, 9, 10, 11 or 12

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Randle is a lottery talent who is at the perfect stage of his career. Where he has established what he is good at to the point where he can grow his untapped potential which is capitalzing on his guard/forward type handle & quickness wrapped in a bull dog physique and mentality.

You can tell by the offseason training that he has worked on being a point forward type that can handle & stretch the floor more so than a banger in the paint.

But the big picture if having Randle, Barrett, Smith/Peyton all be able to handle point duties and create for others. Where the ball flows constantly creating high % shots.

It all depends on the lineup, I guess. There are lineup combinations that might have him as one of the best spot up shooters on the floor. I know that sounds crazy, but he's made steady improvements. I think he can initiate early on offense and find guys in their spots. I might still prefer him more as finisher when th game slows down. Again, it depends on the rotation. As for him getting tired, I guess it's a good thing we did sign those 20 PFs

that's pretty funny..

But yeah, that was my major concerned, that at the end of games he would have no legs.

The one question that no media member has ask is, how deep will you rotations be, 9, 10, 11 or 12

This roster reminds me of a less talented version of that Nuggets team, post melo trade. We can run a number of guys out and maybe win some games through attrition. Payton and Frank defending players at the top could tire guys out. I don't know how much Ellington and Bullock have left, but we have guys who can pressure on the wings. I'm interested to see what direction Fiz takes.

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Randle is a lottery talent who is at the perfect stage of his career. Where he has established what he is good at to the point where he can grow his untapped potential which is capitalzing on his guard/forward type handle & quickness wrapped in a bull dog physique and mentality.

You can tell by the offseason training that he has worked on being a point forward type that can handle & stretch the floor more so than a banger in the paint.

But the big picture if having Randle, Barrett, Smith/Peyton all be able to handle point duties and create for others. Where the ball flows constantly creating high % shots.

It all depends on the lineup, I guess. There are lineup combinations that might have him as one of the best spot up shooters on the floor. I know that sounds crazy, but he's made steady improvements. I think he can initiate early on offense and find guys in their spots. I might still prefer him more as finisher when th game slows down. Again, it depends on the rotation. As for him getting tired, I guess it's a good thing we did sign those 20 PFs

that's pretty funny..

But yeah, that was my major concerned, that at the end of games he would have no legs.

The one question that no media member has ask is, how deep will you rotations be, 9, 10, 11 or 12

This roster reminds me of a less talented version of that Nuggets team, post melo trade. We can run a number of guys out and maybe win some games through attrition. Payton and Frank defending players at the top could tire guys out. I don't know how much Ellington and Bullock have left, but we have guys who can pressure on the wings. I'm interested to see what direction Fiz takes.

I see this team very capable of doing what the Nets and clippers did last season. and a huge part of their success was COACHING and system. They had pieces that fit, and they didn't waiver from their system at no point, even after a few losses and key injuries..

I'm hoping we don't have to deal with 40 different line ups and 20 different rotations just to give players PT or because we loss a few games in a row

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Randle is a lottery talent who is at the perfect stage of his career. Where he has established what he is good at to the point where he can grow his untapped potential which is capitalzing on his guard/forward type handle & quickness wrapped in a bull dog physique and mentality.

You can tell by the offseason training that he has worked on being a point forward type that can handle & stretch the floor more so than a banger in the paint.

But the big picture if having Randle, Barrett, Smith/Peyton all be able to handle point duties and create for others. Where the ball flows constantly creating high % shots.

It all depends on the lineup, I guess. There are lineup combinations that might have him as one of the best spot up shooters on the floor. I know that sounds crazy, but he's made steady improvements. I think he can initiate early on offense and find guys in their spots. I might still prefer him more as finisher when th game slows down. Again, it depends on the rotation. As for him getting tired, I guess it's a good thing we did sign those 20 PFs

that's pretty funny..

But yeah, that was my major concerned, that at the end of games he would have no legs.

The one question that no media member has ask is, how deep will you rotations be, 9, 10, 11 or 12

This roster reminds me of a less talented version of that Nuggets team, post melo trade. We can run a number of guys out and maybe win some games through attrition. Payton and Frank defending players at the top could tire guys out. I don't know how much Ellington and Bullock have left, but we have guys who can pressure on the wings. I'm interested to see what direction Fiz takes.

I see this team very capable of doing what the Nets and clippers did last season. and a huge part of their success was COACHING and system. They had pieces that fit, and they didn't waiver from their system at no point, even after a few losses and key injuries..

I'm hoping we don't have to deal with 40 different line ups and 20 different rotations just to give players PT or because we loss a few games in a row

Did you think the Nets had great coaching when they were 20-62 and 28-54 in the two years before last? Cause it was the staff. Just wondering where you stand on that. Did they just learn to coach this LAST year? Was there a process involved? 20 wins aint much better than 17....

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Randle is a lottery talent who is at the perfect stage of his career. Where he has established what he is good at to the point where he can grow his untapped potential which is capitalzing on his guard/forward type handle & quickness wrapped in a bull dog physique and mentality.

You can tell by the offseason training that he has worked on being a point forward type that can handle & stretch the floor more so than a banger in the paint.

But the big picture if having Randle, Barrett, Smith/Peyton all be able to handle point duties and create for others. Where the ball flows constantly creating high % shots.

It all depends on the lineup, I guess. There are lineup combinations that might have him as one of the best spot up shooters on the floor. I know that sounds crazy, but he's made steady improvements. I think he can initiate early on offense and find guys in their spots. I might still prefer him more as finisher when th game slows down. Again, it depends on the rotation. As for him getting tired, I guess it's a good thing we did sign those 20 PFs

that's pretty funny..

But yeah, that was my major concerned, that at the end of games he would have no legs.

The one question that no media member has ask is, how deep will you rotations be, 9, 10, 11 or 12

This roster reminds me of a less talented version of that Nuggets team, post melo trade. We can run a number of guys out and maybe win some games through attrition. Payton and Frank defending players at the top could tire guys out. I don't know how much Ellington and Bullock have left, but we have guys who can pressure on the wings. I'm interested to see what direction Fiz takes.

I see this team very capable of doing what the Nets and clippers did last season. and a huge part of their success was COACHING and system. They had pieces that fit, and they didn't waiver from their system at no point, even after a few losses and key injuries..

I'm hoping we don't have to deal with 40 different line ups and 20 different rotations just to give players PT or because we loss a few games in a row

Did you think the Nets had great coaching when they were 20-62 and 28-54 in the two years before last? Cause it was the staff. Just wondering where you stand on that. Did they just learn to coach this LAST year? Was there a process involved? 20 wins aint much better than 17....

Sad, I've become like a "Knicks1248" profiler given my obsession and to do that you have to think like "Rainman". Because of this I know the response he'll give. I'd PM you if I could to check my accuracy. I'll be honest if he responds.

Some of you may be more knowledgeable in the mechanical aspects of running a PnR.

First, JR is a lefty so the ability to go left with the dominant hand should be useful. I really never paid attention to his ballhandling in LA or NO.
Second, I am unsure what his quickness looks like compared to other PFs. Can he get past the pick... I'd guess this is an ideal switch situation on a JR/MR PnR.

I guess the logic is solely that they would be getting a taller ball handler get the lob to MR with a lefty attack create some extra space on the shot or the lob. Notably, RJ has good size for the SG slot and is also a lefty. With MR's wingspan and quickness, the margin for error on the lob is pretty wide.

Wish we had a stronger 3pt presence from the PG position to spread the field a bit more on these PnR plays.

This might be the most players with Ball Handling ability we've had in a very long time. This should open up plenty of options on offense. JR is as good a candidate as any. PnR Ball Handler at the PF is a nice thing to have. We've got guys up and down the roster like RJ who can do the same things. I'm excited to see this team playing off each other. Should be our best Ball Movement in a while too.

EwingsGlass wrote:Some of you may be more knowledgeable in the mechanical aspects of running a PnR.

First, JR is a lefty so the ability to go left with the dominant hand should be useful. I really never paid attention to his ballhandling in LA or NO.
Second, I am unsure what his quickness looks like compared to other PFs. Can he get past the pick... I'd guess this is an ideal switch situation on a JR/MR PnR.

I guess the logic is solely that they would be getting a taller ball handler get the lob to MR with a lefty attack create some extra space on the shot or the lob. Notably, RJ has good size for the SG slot and is also a lefty. With MR's wingspan and quickness, the margin for error on the lob is pretty wide.

Wish we had a stronger 3pt presence from the PG position to spread the field a bit more on these PnR plays.

JR is pretty quick for a power forward on the face up. You could argue he has the first step of a wing. His problem early on was his J weak J. Teams could give him space on D. This would cause him to barrel into the defense and force contested shots. Also, he doesn't have freakish verticality so it made it hard for him. He's polished his mid-range game and slowed down a bit. Consistent three point range will take him to the next level.
Now, if he does make jump from 3, I'd argue he'd be more valuable as a finisher than a facilitator. Fiz had always said he wanted versatile guys with size who could swap positions on the court. We kinda have that now. Morris and Randle are pretty inte changeable on the floor. They could play an insid out two-man game in a lot of situations.

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Randle is a lottery talent who is at the perfect stage of his career. Where he has established what he is good at to the point where he can grow his untapped potential which is capitalzing on his guard/forward type handle & quickness wrapped in a bull dog physique and mentality.

You can tell by the offseason training that he has worked on being a point forward type that can handle & stretch the floor more so than a banger in the paint.

But the big picture if having Randle, Barrett, Smith/Peyton all be able to handle point duties and create for others. Where the ball flows constantly creating high % shots.

It all depends on the lineup, I guess. There are lineup combinations that might have him as one of the best spot up shooters on the floor. I know that sounds crazy, but he's made steady improvements. I think he can initiate early on offense and find guys in their spots. I might still prefer him more as finisher when th game slows down. Again, it depends on the rotation. As for him getting tired, I guess it's a good thing we did sign those 20 PFs

that's pretty funny..

But yeah, that was my major concerned, that at the end of games he would have no legs.

The one question that no media member has ask is, how deep will you rotations be, 9, 10, 11 or 12

This roster reminds me of a less talented version of that Nuggets team, post melo trade. We can run a number of guys out and maybe win some games through attrition. Payton and Frank defending players at the top could tire guys out. I don't know how much Ellington and Bullock have left, but we have guys who can pressure on the wings. I'm interested to see what direction Fiz takes.

I see this team very capable of doing what the Nets and clippers did last season. and a huge part of their success was COACHING and system. They had pieces that fit, and they didn't waiver from their system at no point, even after a few losses and key injuries..

I'm hoping we don't have to deal with 40 different line ups and 20 different rotations just to give players PT or because we loss a few games in a row

Did you think the Nets had great coaching when they were 20-62 and 28-54 in the two years before last? Cause it was the staff. Just wondering where you stand on that. Did they just learn to coach this LAST year? Was there a process involved? 20 wins aint much better than 17....

Kenny A was cut from the MDA cloth, I knew he would be a solid coach and he uses his system for the most part, he just didn't have the pieces that fit. They made some significant in season trades his first 2 seasons.

Fiz roster is a rugged rough rag tag bunch, that if they play hard and smart and are well prepared, can win 40 games.

mike woodson made a few minor tweeks( for melo's sake) and used MDA's system as well.

The nets didn't even have draft picks either