Knicks · Another Year, Another PG Problem (page 1)

Knixkik @ 10/17/2019 8:40 AM
I like what we have everywhere else right now. Mitch and Bobby at Center, Randle at PF, Morris and Knox at SF, and Barrett at SG. All can be keepers. But PG once again leaves so much to be desired. Payton is probably the safest bet right now, and maybe he can take a legit step forward. But he can't shoot and seems like a poor long-term fit alongside Barrett, since he's going to be a playmaker. Dennis Smith has talent, sure, and he may have some big breakout games here and there. But he feels more like a long-term 6th man type in the Present-day D Rose mold. Frank looked good guarding Young and has a future in the league as a backup, defensive stopper. But what's the long-term answer at PG? None of these guys can shoot. Hope for Payton or Smith to break out? Next year's draft has some options i guess. The PG market in free agency doesn't look great the next couple of years. We could go after VanVleet in the offseason, who's fit is excellent next to Barrett, but not sure if overpaying him is the answer. Hopefully the front office can figure this out. It's been going on way too long.
fishmike @ 10/17/2019 9:10 AM
DRussell is the player that jumps out at you. Otherwise you keep working on the players you have. Aside from Elf we are very young and inexperienced.
knicks1248 @ 10/17/2019 9:17 AM
Knixkik wrote:I like what we have everywhere else right now. Mitch and Bobby at Center, Randle at PF, Morris and Knox at SF, and Barrett at SG. All can be keepers. But PG once again leaves so much to be desired. Payton is probably the safest bet right now, and maybe he can take a legit step forward. But he can't shoot and seems like a poor long-term fit alongside Barrett, since he's going to be a playmaker. Dennis Smith has talent, sure, and he may have some big breakout games here and there. But he feels more like a long-term 6th man type in the Present-day D Rose mold. Frank looked good guarding Young and has a future in the league as a backup, defensive stopper. But what's the long-term answer at PG? None of these guys can shoot. Hope for Payton or Smith to break out? Next year's draft has some options i guess. The PG market in free agency doesn't look great the next couple of years. We could go after VanVleet in the offseason, who's fit is excellent next to Barrett, but not sure if overpaying him is the answer. Hopefully the front office can figure this out. It's been going on way too long.

I literally was about to start a thread on the this same topic..

To make matters worse, Fiz has basically given just about everyone the green light to bring the ball up court in his positionless system. I saw knox, rj, dsj, frank, Morris, randle, ellington all given the opportunity,and none of them look fluid.


I think we had like 2 fast breaks the entire game and scored 96 points, that is absolutely ridiculous, go look at the scoreboard from all the games last night, almost every team that won scored 120 or more, and no one scored less than 110, except GSW who rested everybody who rested curry.

The funny thing is they all keep saying they are not worry about the offense, but that looks worse than the defense, all we have is Pick and roll and post play, that's 90's style basketball.

I could give DSJ a pass cause he hasn't play in a game since march, but the rest of our guards can not shoot at all, and our bigs shoot better from the perimeter, thats crazy.

How do you pair so many bad shooters in your back court..WTH

Nalod @ 10/17/2019 9:25 AM
Van Fleet is not really starter material. Let’s see how he looks on a less than great Toronto team now void of its alpha.

This team given its 9 new faces and unknown how much our yoot can handle as the season progresses will no doubt have many lineup changes. Some fans ill be “fatigued” by this occurrence. ITs necessary. last night we gave Morris the chance. The Vets get that first opportunity. If they get bypassed by younger player its obvious for all to see. Seems this is the law of the locker room over the years.

In my opinion this is at best a 30 win team. Thats a vast improvement over last year but its still not a good team. We don’t look like a good team. Will they get it together in the next week? I doubt it.

ATL did not look great, and knicks not the only team in transition. My issue was how bad DSjr looked last night. Since I am usually on the “patience” side I realize he has not played but we read how he lost weight, how he fixed his shot. How good shape he was in. He looked silly trying to defend young.
In Frank good or we know what we have. The kid has done what he did last night many times before. Did a lot of really good things except shoot. If that is evolving its a good thing. With smith what do we have? A chronic back condition? They both have played the same amount of games. Frank played 78 games his rookie year. smith has missed similar parts of two with the same back issue. Frank had shoulder and then his groin issue. Missed 43 games, an awful season!

IM less concerned about extending Frank then Dennis. Thats not a resounding endorsement for Frank BTW, its just based on what I have seen. I hate the thought of KP being allstar and Dennis being broken. I hope that thought goes away with good play!

I think we Start RJ and Payton in the back court. Frank off the bench then Smith. Smith will get opportunity.
Is Trier injured or in the dog house? Dot??

There will be a trade. I don’t know if its Frank, Dot or Trier. Rumors are Detroit wants Frank and doubt they want to pay up

Knicksfan @ 10/17/2019 9:51 AM
PG is a real issue both on the players and the coach.

I was resisting the thought of DSJr being the 6th man most talk about, but it seems he will not reach the heights most thought of him in college. His defense is bad and his playmaking isn’t optimal. He would be nice if he was a shooter to pair with RJ who could balance the playmaking. I’m not optimistic about him anymore.

Frank is the best bet we have as a starting PG. Problem is, we need better shooting from him. It’s necessary. He brings so many things to the table that it’s frustrating his shot is what makes this even a contest. Best defensive guard, best team offensive awareness, yet can’t be consistent shooting to claim the starting nod.

I don’t want Payton as a starter. He should be the consistent backup. As a starter, he gets exposed worse than Frank because he can’t shoot and everything else he brings isn’t that great compared to the intangibles Frank does.

A dark horse here is Trier, but he seems to be in Fiz’s doghouse.

It is a mess indeed.

fishmike @ 10/17/2019 10:22 AM
3 preseason games is NOT a mess. We have two young prospects with 120 games under their belts and neither have seen any continuity in their first 2 years. Elf is coming off an 0-9 shooting night that earned the other two guys a look.

Were we expecting a 50 win team? Its going to take time.

Allanfan20 @ 10/17/2019 10:25 AM
Elfrid has been painfully vanilla. DSJr is concerning me. His defense is lacking and his shot did not look good at all. I don’t worry about Franks shot as much as others. It’s Dennis that’s bothering me.

None of this has anything to do with coaching.

MS @ 10/17/2019 10:26 AM
The real issue is not repairing your relationship with your franchise player and trading him for DSJR who can't play.

This one is on Perry. As, is signing another reclamation project of his that is redundant in our offense. I am very confused with Fizdale and his coaching. Barrett is playing to many minutes and DSJR should be our bench scoring threat, not our starting point guard.

fishmike @ 10/17/2019 11:18 AM
MS wrote:The real issue is not repairing your relationship with your franchise player and trading him for DSJR who can't play.

This one is on Perry. As, is signing another reclamation project of his that is redundant in our offense. I am very confused with Fizdale and his coaching. Barrett is playing to many minutes and DSJR should be our bench scoring threat, not our starting point guard.

thats not an issue thats history. Did we lose a PG in the KP trade?
Knixkik @ 10/17/2019 11:35 AM
Allanfan20 wrote:Elfrid has been painfully vanilla. DSJr is concerning me. His defense is lacking and his shot did not look good at all. I don’t worry about Franks shot as much as others. It’s Dennis that’s bothering me.

None of this has anything to do with coaching.

Payton is probably the starter. He is proven as a stopgap starter at least. He can create and is much more efficient than Frank and DSj. Not ideal, but he's started everywhere he went. He's a starter, just a replaceable one.

Knixkik @ 10/17/2019 11:36 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:I like what we have everywhere else right now. Mitch and Bobby at Center, Randle at PF, Morris and Knox at SF, and Barrett at SG. All can be keepers. But PG once again leaves so much to be desired. Payton is probably the safest bet right now, and maybe he can take a legit step forward. But he can't shoot and seems like a poor long-term fit alongside Barrett, since he's going to be a playmaker. Dennis Smith has talent, sure, and he may have some big breakout games here and there. But he feels more like a long-term 6th man type in the Present-day D Rose mold. Frank looked good guarding Young and has a future in the league as a backup, defensive stopper. But what's the long-term answer at PG? None of these guys can shoot. Hope for Payton or Smith to break out? Next year's draft has some options i guess. The PG market in free agency doesn't look great the next couple of years. We could go after VanVleet in the offseason, who's fit is excellent next to Barrett, but not sure if overpaying him is the answer. Hopefully the front office can figure this out. It's been going on way too long.

I literally was about to start a thread on the this same topic..

To make matters worse, Fiz has basically given just about everyone the green light to bring the ball up court in his positionless system. I saw knox, rj, dsj, frank, Morris, randle, ellington all given the opportunity,and none of them look fluid.


I think we had like 2 fast breaks the entire game and scored 96 points, that is absolutely ridiculous, go look at the scoreboard from all the games last night, almost every team that won scored 120 or more, and no one scored less than 110, except GSW who rested everybody who rested curry.

The funny thing is they all keep saying they are not worry about the offense, but that looks worse than the defense, all we have is Pick and roll and post play, that's 90's style basketball.

I could give DSJ a pass cause he hasn't play in a game since march, but the rest of our guards can not shoot at all, and our bigs shoot better from the perimeter, thats crazy.

How do you pair so many bad shooters in your back court..WTH

I think Barrett will be a good playmaker once he gets his NBA footing. He's good in the open floor and will improve his decision making as the year goes. It's all about finding someone who pairs well with him now.

fishmike @ 10/17/2019 11:56 AM
Knixkik wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:I like what we have everywhere else right now. Mitch and Bobby at Center, Randle at PF, Morris and Knox at SF, and Barrett at SG. All can be keepers. But PG once again leaves so much to be desired. Payton is probably the safest bet right now, and maybe he can take a legit step forward. But he can't shoot and seems like a poor long-term fit alongside Barrett, since he's going to be a playmaker. Dennis Smith has talent, sure, and he may have some big breakout games here and there. But he feels more like a long-term 6th man type in the Present-day D Rose mold. Frank looked good guarding Young and has a future in the league as a backup, defensive stopper. But what's the long-term answer at PG? None of these guys can shoot. Hope for Payton or Smith to break out? Next year's draft has some options i guess. The PG market in free agency doesn't look great the next couple of years. We could go after VanVleet in the offseason, who's fit is excellent next to Barrett, but not sure if overpaying him is the answer. Hopefully the front office can figure this out. It's been going on way too long.

I literally was about to start a thread on the this same topic..

To make matters worse, Fiz has basically given just about everyone the green light to bring the ball up court in his positionless system. I saw knox, rj, dsj, frank, Morris, randle, ellington all given the opportunity,and none of them look fluid.


I think we had like 2 fast breaks the entire game and scored 96 points, that is absolutely ridiculous, go look at the scoreboard from all the games last night, almost every team that won scored 120 or more, and no one scored less than 110, except GSW who rested everybody who rested curry.

The funny thing is they all keep saying they are not worry about the offense, but that looks worse than the defense, all we have is Pick and roll and post play, that's 90's style basketball.

I could give DSJ a pass cause he hasn't play in a game since march, but the rest of our guards can not shoot at all, and our bigs shoot better from the perimeter, thats crazy.

How do you pair so many bad shooters in your back court..WTH

I think Barrett will be a good playmaker once he gets his NBA footing. He's good in the open floor and will improve his decision making as the year goes. It's all about finding someone who pairs well with him now.

How is that not Frank? As bad as Frank's offense has been if he starts he's got 3 scorers next to him in Morris/Randle/RJ. We dont need a scoring PG in that line up. We need a ball handler who sets guys up and plays D.
fwk00 @ 10/17/2019 12:28 PM
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:I like what we have everywhere else right now. Mitch and Bobby at Center, Randle at PF, Morris and Knox at SF, and Barrett at SG. All can be keepers. But PG once again leaves so much to be desired. Payton is probably the safest bet right now, and maybe he can take a legit step forward. But he can't shoot and seems like a poor long-term fit alongside Barrett, since he's going to be a playmaker. Dennis Smith has talent, sure, and he may have some big breakout games here and there. But he feels more like a long-term 6th man type in the Present-day D Rose mold. Frank looked good guarding Young and has a future in the league as a backup, defensive stopper. But what's the long-term answer at PG? None of these guys can shoot. Hope for Payton or Smith to break out? Next year's draft has some options i guess. The PG market in free agency doesn't look great the next couple of years. We could go after VanVleet in the offseason, who's fit is excellent next to Barrett, but not sure if overpaying him is the answer. Hopefully the front office can figure this out. It's been going on way too long.

I literally was about to start a thread on the this same topic..

To make matters worse, Fiz has basically given just about everyone the green light to bring the ball up court in his positionless system. I saw knox, rj, dsj, frank, Morris, randle, ellington all given the opportunity,and none of them look fluid.


I think we had like 2 fast breaks the entire game and scored 96 points, that is absolutely ridiculous, go look at the scoreboard from all the games last night, almost every team that won scored 120 or more, and no one scored less than 110, except GSW who rested everybody who rested curry.

The funny thing is they all keep saying they are not worry about the offense, but that looks worse than the defense, all we have is Pick and roll and post play, that's 90's style basketball.

I could give DSJ a pass cause he hasn't play in a game since march, but the rest of our guards can not shoot at all, and our bigs shoot better from the perimeter, thats crazy.

How do you pair so many bad shooters in your back court..WTH

I think Barrett will be a good playmaker once he gets his NBA footing. He's good in the open floor and will improve his decision making as the year goes. It's all about finding someone who pairs well with him now.

How is that not Frank? As bad as Frank's offense has been if he starts he's got 3 scorers next to him in Morris/Randle/RJ. We dont need a scoring PG in that line up. We need a ball handler who sets guys up and plays D.

Totally agree.

My problem with Payton is that is is no further along in development than Frankie is yet has been in the league longer. I don't hate him but IMO, Frankie is the man.

As for DSJ, move him. I don't care about the "rust" issue - I didn't see a player who belonged in the game. Rust aside, he should have shown *something/anything*. We can't spend time on a face-saving project - this is a rabbit hole not worth going down.

Likewise, I'm not a Trier fan. ISO-ball is a recipe for stat-padding and losses. Trier might be a good 7/8 choice off the bench.

martin @ 10/17/2019 12:35 PM
fwk00 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:I like what we have everywhere else right now. Mitch and Bobby at Center, Randle at PF, Morris and Knox at SF, and Barrett at SG. All can be keepers. But PG once again leaves so much to be desired. Payton is probably the safest bet right now, and maybe he can take a legit step forward. But he can't shoot and seems like a poor long-term fit alongside Barrett, since he's going to be a playmaker. Dennis Smith has talent, sure, and he may have some big breakout games here and there. But he feels more like a long-term 6th man type in the Present-day D Rose mold. Frank looked good guarding Young and has a future in the league as a backup, defensive stopper. But what's the long-term answer at PG? None of these guys can shoot. Hope for Payton or Smith to break out? Next year's draft has some options i guess. The PG market in free agency doesn't look great the next couple of years. We could go after VanVleet in the offseason, who's fit is excellent next to Barrett, but not sure if overpaying him is the answer. Hopefully the front office can figure this out. It's been going on way too long.

I literally was about to start a thread on the this same topic..

To make matters worse, Fiz has basically given just about everyone the green light to bring the ball up court in his positionless system. I saw knox, rj, dsj, frank, Morris, randle, ellington all given the opportunity,and none of them look fluid.


I think we had like 2 fast breaks the entire game and scored 96 points, that is absolutely ridiculous, go look at the scoreboard from all the games last night, almost every team that won scored 120 or more, and no one scored less than 110, except GSW who rested everybody who rested curry.

The funny thing is they all keep saying they are not worry about the offense, but that looks worse than the defense, all we have is Pick and roll and post play, that's 90's style basketball.

I could give DSJ a pass cause he hasn't play in a game since march, but the rest of our guards can not shoot at all, and our bigs shoot better from the perimeter, thats crazy.

How do you pair so many bad shooters in your back court..WTH

I think Barrett will be a good playmaker once he gets his NBA footing. He's good in the open floor and will improve his decision making as the year goes. It's all about finding someone who pairs well with him now.

How is that not Frank? As bad as Frank's offense has been if he starts he's got 3 scorers next to him in Morris/Randle/RJ. We dont need a scoring PG in that line up. We need a ball handler who sets guys up and plays D.

Totally agree.

My problem with Payton is that is is no further along in development than Frankie is yet has been in the league longer. I don't hate him but IMO, Frankie is the man.

As for DSJ, move him. I don't care about the "rust" issue - I didn't see a player who belonged in the game. Rust aside, he should have shown *something/anything*. We can't spend time on a face-saving project - this is a rabbit hole not worth going down.

Likewise, I'm not a Trier fan. ISO-ball is a recipe for stat-padding and losses. Trier might be a good 7/8 choice off the bench.

I haven't watched much of Payton but all indications where that he and New Orleans were humming along with him as PG outside of injury situations.

BigDaddyG @ 10/17/2019 2:05 PM
Allanfan20 wrote:Elfrid has been painfully vanilla. DSJr is concerning me. His defense is lacking and his shot did not look good at all. I don’t worry about Franks shot as much as others. It’s Dennis that’s bothering me.

None of this has anything to do with coaching.

Yeah, I remember we were killing Frank for his poor shooting in the friendly matches prior to FIBA. It's fair to show concern, but I'm not panicking. Same with Elfrid and DSJ, who has only played one preseason game so far.

martin @ 10/17/2019 2:07 PM
Knixkik @ 10/17/2019 2:33 PM
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:I like what we have everywhere else right now. Mitch and Bobby at Center, Randle at PF, Morris and Knox at SF, and Barrett at SG. All can be keepers. But PG once again leaves so much to be desired. Payton is probably the safest bet right now, and maybe he can take a legit step forward. But he can't shoot and seems like a poor long-term fit alongside Barrett, since he's going to be a playmaker. Dennis Smith has talent, sure, and he may have some big breakout games here and there. But he feels more like a long-term 6th man type in the Present-day D Rose mold. Frank looked good guarding Young and has a future in the league as a backup, defensive stopper. But what's the long-term answer at PG? None of these guys can shoot. Hope for Payton or Smith to break out? Next year's draft has some options i guess. The PG market in free agency doesn't look great the next couple of years. We could go after VanVleet in the offseason, who's fit is excellent next to Barrett, but not sure if overpaying him is the answer. Hopefully the front office can figure this out. It's been going on way too long.

I literally was about to start a thread on the this same topic..

To make matters worse, Fiz has basically given just about everyone the green light to bring the ball up court in his positionless system. I saw knox, rj, dsj, frank, Morris, randle, ellington all given the opportunity,and none of them look fluid.


I think we had like 2 fast breaks the entire game and scored 96 points, that is absolutely ridiculous, go look at the scoreboard from all the games last night, almost every team that won scored 120 or more, and no one scored less than 110, except GSW who rested everybody who rested curry.

The funny thing is they all keep saying they are not worry about the offense, but that looks worse than the defense, all we have is Pick and roll and post play, that's 90's style basketball.

I could give DSJ a pass cause he hasn't play in a game since march, but the rest of our guards can not shoot at all, and our bigs shoot better from the perimeter, thats crazy.

How do you pair so many bad shooters in your back court..WTH

I think Barrett will be a good playmaker once he gets his NBA footing. He's good in the open floor and will improve his decision making as the year goes. It's all about finding someone who pairs well with him now.

How is that not Frank? As bad as Frank's offense has been if he starts he's got 3 scorers next to him in Morris/Randle/RJ. We dont need a scoring PG in that line up. We need a ball handler who sets guys up and plays D.

The problem with Frank is he can't shoot (to this point) and is completely uninterested in being a scoring threat. Can't put a guy next to RJ that will shoot 35% from the field and 30% from 3pt, or whatever, and expect him to be the solution. We don't need a scorer at PG, but we need someone at least capable of keeping a defense honest.

martin @ 10/17/2019 2:38 PM
Knixkik wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:I like what we have everywhere else right now. Mitch and Bobby at Center, Randle at PF, Morris and Knox at SF, and Barrett at SG. All can be keepers. But PG once again leaves so much to be desired. Payton is probably the safest bet right now, and maybe he can take a legit step forward. But he can't shoot and seems like a poor long-term fit alongside Barrett, since he's going to be a playmaker. Dennis Smith has talent, sure, and he may have some big breakout games here and there. But he feels more like a long-term 6th man type in the Present-day D Rose mold. Frank looked good guarding Young and has a future in the league as a backup, defensive stopper. But what's the long-term answer at PG? None of these guys can shoot. Hope for Payton or Smith to break out? Next year's draft has some options i guess. The PG market in free agency doesn't look great the next couple of years. We could go after VanVleet in the offseason, who's fit is excellent next to Barrett, but not sure if overpaying him is the answer. Hopefully the front office can figure this out. It's been going on way too long.

I literally was about to start a thread on the this same topic..

To make matters worse, Fiz has basically given just about everyone the green light to bring the ball up court in his positionless system. I saw knox, rj, dsj, frank, Morris, randle, ellington all given the opportunity,and none of them look fluid.


I think we had like 2 fast breaks the entire game and scored 96 points, that is absolutely ridiculous, go look at the scoreboard from all the games last night, almost every team that won scored 120 or more, and no one scored less than 110, except GSW who rested everybody who rested curry.

The funny thing is they all keep saying they are not worry about the offense, but that looks worse than the defense, all we have is Pick and roll and post play, that's 90's style basketball.

I could give DSJ a pass cause he hasn't play in a game since march, but the rest of our guards can not shoot at all, and our bigs shoot better from the perimeter, thats crazy.

How do you pair so many bad shooters in your back court..WTH

I think Barrett will be a good playmaker once he gets his NBA footing. He's good in the open floor and will improve his decision making as the year goes. It's all about finding someone who pairs well with him now.

How is that not Frank? As bad as Frank's offense has been if he starts he's got 3 scorers next to him in Morris/Randle/RJ. We dont need a scoring PG in that line up. We need a ball handler who sets guys up and plays D.

The problem with Frank is he can't shoot (to this point) and is completely uninterested in being a scoring threat. Can't put a guy next to RJ that will shoot 35% from the field and 30% from 3pt, or whatever, and expect him to be the solution. We don't need a scorer at PG, but we need someone at least capable of keeping a defense honest.

Feel like that is changing... Regular season games will be telling.

Uptown @ 10/17/2019 3:21 PM
An attacking pg with vision that can collapse the defense and either kick or drop it off for layups and dunks will lift this offense and make Fiz system look so much better. Elf and especially Frank are ball movers and are rarely in attack mode...

DSJ can get into the paint almost at will, but his lack of a consitent Jay causes the D to sag ofg and clog the paint as they dare him to shoot. Also, his health is a concern. Same with Frank.

I feel like this is a make or break year for both DSJ and Frank. One or both will not be here in July.

fwk00 @ 10/17/2019 3:26 PM
martin wrote:
fwk00 wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:I like what we have everywhere else right now. Mitch and Bobby at Center, Randle at PF, Morris and Knox at SF, and Barrett at SG. All can be keepers. But PG once again leaves so much to be desired. Payton is probably the safest bet right now, and maybe he can take a legit step forward. But he can't shoot and seems like a poor long-term fit alongside Barrett, since he's going to be a playmaker. Dennis Smith has talent, sure, and he may have some big breakout games here and there. But he feels more like a long-term 6th man type in the Present-day D Rose mold. Frank looked good guarding Young and has a future in the league as a backup, defensive stopper. But what's the long-term answer at PG? None of these guys can shoot. Hope for Payton or Smith to break out? Next year's draft has some options i guess. The PG market in free agency doesn't look great the next couple of years. We could go after VanVleet in the offseason, who's fit is excellent next to Barrett, but not sure if overpaying him is the answer. Hopefully the front office can figure this out. It's been going on way too long.

I literally was about to start a thread on the this same topic..

To make matters worse, Fiz has basically given just about everyone the green light to bring the ball up court in his positionless system. I saw knox, rj, dsj, frank, Morris, randle, ellington all given the opportunity,and none of them look fluid.


I think we had like 2 fast breaks the entire game and scored 96 points, that is absolutely ridiculous, go look at the scoreboard from all the games last night, almost every team that won scored 120 or more, and no one scored less than 110, except GSW who rested everybody who rested curry.

The funny thing is they all keep saying they are not worry about the offense, but that looks worse than the defense, all we have is Pick and roll and post play, that's 90's style basketball.

I could give DSJ a pass cause he hasn't play in a game since march, but the rest of our guards can not shoot at all, and our bigs shoot better from the perimeter, thats crazy.

How do you pair so many bad shooters in your back court..WTH

I think Barrett will be a good playmaker once he gets his NBA footing. He's good in the open floor and will improve his decision making as the year goes. It's all about finding someone who pairs well with him now.

How is that not Frank? As bad as Frank's offense has been if he starts he's got 3 scorers next to him in Morris/Randle/RJ. We dont need a scoring PG in that line up. We need a ball handler who sets guys up and plays D.

Totally agree.

My problem with Payton is that is is no further along in development than Frankie is yet has been in the league longer. I don't hate him but IMO, Frankie is the man.

As for DSJ, move him. I don't care about the "rust" issue - I didn't see a player who belonged in the game. Rust aside, he should have shown *something/anything*. We can't spend time on a face-saving project - this is a rabbit hole not worth going down.

Likewise, I'm not a Trier fan. ISO-ball is a recipe for stat-padding and losses. Trier might be a good 7/8 choice off the bench.

I haven't watched much of Payton but all indications where that he and New Orleans were humming along with him as PG outside of injury situations.

Yes, both things can be true. I think both Payton and Frankie are *sufficient* PGs for this team. Neither need to score assuming they manage everything else nicely. Given that they are so similar, my argument is that Frankie has more upside because of his youth and is no more a liability than Payton is argued to be.

I was a Payton fan when he entered the league. The fact that Frankie is neck and neck with him indicates either that Frankie is a fast learner or that Payton's development is taking longer.

knicks1248 @ 10/17/2019 3:44 PM
fishmike wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:I like what we have everywhere else right now. Mitch and Bobby at Center, Randle at PF, Morris and Knox at SF, and Barrett at SG. All can be keepers. But PG once again leaves so much to be desired. Payton is probably the safest bet right now, and maybe he can take a legit step forward. But he can't shoot and seems like a poor long-term fit alongside Barrett, since he's going to be a playmaker. Dennis Smith has talent, sure, and he may have some big breakout games here and there. But he feels more like a long-term 6th man type in the Present-day D Rose mold. Frank looked good guarding Young and has a future in the league as a backup, defensive stopper. But what's the long-term answer at PG? None of these guys can shoot. Hope for Payton or Smith to break out? Next year's draft has some options i guess. The PG market in free agency doesn't look great the next couple of years. We could go after VanVleet in the offseason, who's fit is excellent next to Barrett, but not sure if overpaying him is the answer. Hopefully the front office can figure this out. It's been going on way too long.

I literally was about to start a thread on the this same topic..

To make matters worse, Fiz has basically given just about everyone the green light to bring the ball up court in his positionless system. I saw knox, rj, dsj, frank, Morris, randle, ellington all given the opportunity,and none of them look fluid.


I think we had like 2 fast breaks the entire game and scored 96 points, that is absolutely ridiculous, go look at the scoreboard from all the games last night, almost every team that won scored 120 or more, and no one scored less than 110, except GSW who rested everybody who rested curry.

The funny thing is they all keep saying they are not worry about the offense, but that looks worse than the defense, all we have is Pick and roll and post play, that's 90's style basketball.

I could give DSJ a pass cause he hasn't play in a game since march, but the rest of our guards can not shoot at all, and our bigs shoot better from the perimeter, thats crazy.

How do you pair so many bad shooters in your back court..WTH

I think Barrett will be a good playmaker once he gets his NBA footing. He's good in the open floor and will improve his decision making as the year goes. It's all about finding someone who pairs well with him now.

How is that not Frank? As bad as Frank's offense has been if he starts he's got 3 scorers next to him in Morris/Randle/RJ. We dont need a scoring PG in that line up. We need a ball handler who sets guys up and plays D.

to say you don't need a pg that can score in this day and age is crazy, because 9 out 10 times the opposing team will have one. That opposing PG will basically be free to roam on defense because his opponent is shooting 30%.

You saw that first hand last night with trey young barely playing any Defense at all, and frank and DSJ combing for 6 points on 25% shooting in a combine 42 minutes, and only 2 FT. Trey had 10 FTA

Even when RJ was running point, him and the team rarely took advantage of the mis match.

My question is, How are we going to get easy baskets when the entire team is walking the ball up court even on miss shots? You just can't play like that and expect to win

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