At least we no longer have debate that we should have picked DSJr instead of Frank in the draft. They both on the roster and both suck. No reason for buyers remorse.
i think dsj's injured and that's why he's playing like this. will he always be injury-prone? unfortunately he might be. but if not, he could still be something. i watched home come into ny right before the trade and ring up a triple double. looked great running that team and had a smooth 15 assists.
frank i'm afraid will never gel with fizdale. if he remains coach i think they'll get rid of frank. i just don't think fiz is going to get the kind of ball out of him that another coach will.
Marv wrote:i think dsj's injured and that's why he's playing like this. will he always be injury-prone? unfortunately he might be. but if not, he could still be something. i watched home come into ny right before the trade and ring up a triple double. looked great running that team and had a smooth 15 assists.frank i'm afraid will never gel with fizdale. if he remains coach i think they'll get rid of frank. i just don't think fiz is going to get the kind of ball out of him that another coach will.
Then maybe we need another coach. If you can’t get the most out of your players, then why are you here? Not saying Frank shouldn’t be accountable. He should be. Frank looked like a deer in headlights though. Knox played decent but he got absolutely tooled by Derozan when he didn’t exist the rest of the game. Not saying that’s Fiz’s fault either. But when you stress defense and passing and it’s not happening, maybe he should be a litte responsible.
where is Fiba Frank? Dude, what the F?
And I hope DSjr is hurt. I didn't see him play - only started watching in the 2nd half.
We are jumping to conclusions. I thought Payton should get the nod given his veteran status.
2;54 seconds is not enough to indict Frank. We have seen progress.
SMith has me most concerned. His lift and shot was bizarre last night. He looks hurt. Given he was the key piece of KP trade it makes me a bit queasy.
Trier’s defense was awful.
I’d go with Payton and frank to back up.
Nalod wrote:We are jumping to conclusions. I thought Payton should get the nod given his veteran status.
2;54 seconds is not enough to indict Frank. We have seen progress.
SMith has me most concerned. His lift and shot was bizarre last night. He looks hurt. Given he was the key piece of KP trade it makes me a bit queasy.
Trier’s defense was awful.
I’d go with Payton and frank to back up.
I agree that it’s not enough to jump to conclusions but it’s still baffling that Frank did that bad in such a short period of time.
Has Frank been this bad in practice that he was the 4th point guard? Mind you, he had the best defensive numbers on the team I believe. I don’t understand why he was the 4th PG behind Barrett, a SG, and Smith, who is either hurt or just sucks.
Nalod wrote:We are jumping to conclusions. I thought Payton should get the nod given his veteran status.
2;54 seconds is not enough to indict Frank. We have seen progress.
SMith has me most concerned. His lift and shot was bizarre last night. He looks hurt. Given he was the key piece of KP trade it makes me a bit queasy.
Trier’s defense was awful.
I’d go with Payton and frank to back up.
yeah it's not just 2.54. it's a full season, a preseason and 2.54. i think all the writing's on the wall at this point. frank & fiz ain't a drink that's gonna sell.
this season is going to be one full of silver linings
Smith has bad back... And he need to sit out and fix it 100% if this at all possible.
Nobody can play on NBA level with bad back. Period.
FO is still hoping that they can show something for KP trade... But looks like this is not happening.
Frank is still not settled into position. This is not good for NBA. League is highly specialized.
Versatility is great asset but every NBA player need position skills which are reliable. Frank can defend. But this about it.
He need to focus on skills development. May be go to G-league and play a lot of minutes with purpose at PG,SG, or wing.
Real NBA games is not a place to learn fundamentals.
Payton is established PG. His ceiling is Charley Word type. He cannot shoot so he will never be a top team starting PG type.
However he is all we need at the time to support team building.
Barrett may be able to play 1 to 3 and this means he can became one of the top players in NBA.
If this will start to materialize he should be given time at all positions.
The way it stands now playing Payton and Barrett most of the PG minutes makes most sense.
Not very concerned about Smith jr. or Frank this early. Neither of them looked confident out there. Smith's best move was a give and go to the rim. Still dont see an effort to help get him going (screens) so he doesnt try to do too much himself. A screen wont stop those bricks DSJr has been throwing up, but it will help spread the floor, make it easier to drive, and/or kick the ball out for a 3.
Frank looked like he did his rookie year, with those sloppy turnovers. Dont expect him to regress further. Neither of them know their role on the team yet.
Payton should start for a while. Really hope Fizdale settles on a starting PG, and doesnt keep changing PGs after a few bad outings. Believe that once Smith jr, and Frank have an idea of where they fit on this roster, we'll see them both playing with more confidence. Dont want to see another season of musical PGs. Run with Payton for a while.
Panos wrote:At least we no longer have debate that we should have picked DSJr instead of Frank in the draft. They both on the roster and both suck. No reason for buyers remorse.
Yep. You said it. Unless you use a more intelligent approach and take um the last two years as pros into account over say 10 minutes of this year and two games after back stiffness. Nah, that would be too logical.
Look, Dennis looks pretty bad. May be his back. May be that he is Fultz like in confidence. May be that he is just not going to be a high level NBA player. Fact is you just cant say what it is in such a short time. Same goes with Frank. Who also looked pretty bad. Think the have showed many more signs of improvement over the summer and they cant be ruled on after just a couple of games. But how is that a silver lining? So we have two young assets and we are forming these type of opinions with 2 and 10 minute into the new year. And we are suppose to be happy about it? Nah. True Knick fans want ANY and ALL players on the roster to do well.
I think both Frank and Dennis have way too much talent to not be able to contribute. Now are they Donavan Mitchell. KP type draft picks. Think it has been proven thus far they are not.
Marv wrote:Nalod wrote:We are jumping to conclusions. I thought Payton should get the nod given his veteran status.
2;54 seconds is not enough to indict Frank. We have seen progress.
SMith has me most concerned. His lift and shot was bizarre last night. He looks hurt. Given he was the key piece of KP trade it makes me a bit queasy.
Trier’s defense was awful.
I’d go with Payton and frank to back up.
yeah it's not just 2.54. it's a full season, a preseason and 2.54. i think all the writing's on the wall at this point. frank & fiz ain't a drink that's gonna sell.
Marv, Im not sugar coating this with fairy dust. He has a lot to prove and last nite was awful. He had some bad passes, one might have been either a flat out bad pass or Randle did not continue to secure it.
He had a shot goal tended and a great pick and roll that Taj missed the dunk. It was not as dysfunctional as it was made out to be. Fiz saw a critical turn and yanked him.
Fact is had he let him settle down MAYBE the game goes different. its not like someone stepped up. Spurs still went on a big run with the others.
Given, I give Fiz the benefit of the doubt he saw something that warranted him to yank him. Fiz thru them all out there and they all looked bad but Payton.
If he is going to freak out every game these guys are going to be a mess. Gotta be cool!
Was it just me or did Dennis Smith shot look...shot? Like the release was just way too slow, no confidence,etc..?
Nalod wrote:Marv wrote:Nalod wrote:We are jumping to conclusions. I thought Payton should get the nod given his veteran status.
2;54 seconds is not enough to indict Frank. We have seen progress.
SMith has me most concerned. His lift and shot was bizarre last night. He looks hurt. Given he was the key piece of KP trade it makes me a bit queasy.
Trier’s defense was awful.
I’d go with Payton and frank to back up.
yeah it's not just 2.54. it's a full season, a preseason and 2.54. i think all the writing's on the wall at this point. frank & fiz ain't a drink that's gonna sell.
Marv, Im not sugar coating this with fairy dust. He has a lot to prove and last nite was awful. He had some bad passes, one might have been either a flat out bad pass or Randle did not continue to secure it.
He had a shot goal tended and a great pick and roll that Taj missed the dunk. It was not as dysfunctional as it was made out to be. Fiz saw a critical turn and yanked him.
Fact is had he let him settle down MAYBE the game goes different. its not like someone stepped up. Spurs still went on a big run with the others.
Given, I give Fiz the benefit of the doubt he saw something that warranted him to yank him. Fiz thru them all out there and they all looked bad but Payton.
If he is going to freak out every game these guys are going to be a mess. Gotta be cool!
Completely forgot about the missed dunk by Gibson that would have gave us all the momentum.
newyorknewyork wrote:Nalod wrote:Marv wrote:Nalod wrote:We are jumping to conclusions. I thought Payton should get the nod given his veteran status.
2;54 seconds is not enough to indict Frank. We have seen progress.
SMith has me most concerned. His lift and shot was bizarre last night. He looks hurt. Given he was the key piece of KP trade it makes me a bit queasy.
Trier’s defense was awful.
I’d go with Payton and frank to back up.
yeah it's not just 2.54. it's a full season, a preseason and 2.54. i think all the writing's on the wall at this point. frank & fiz ain't a drink that's gonna sell.
Marv, Im not sugar coating this with fairy dust. He has a lot to prove and last nite was awful. He had some bad passes, one might have been either a flat out bad pass or Randle did not continue to secure it.
He had a shot goal tended and a great pick and roll that Taj missed the dunk. It was not as dysfunctional as it was made out to be. Fiz saw a critical turn and yanked him.
Fact is had he let him settle down MAYBE the game goes different. its not like someone stepped up. Spurs still went on a big run with the others.
Given, I give Fiz the benefit of the doubt he saw something that warranted him to yank him. Fiz thru them all out there and they all looked bad but Payton.
If he is going to freak out every game these guys are going to be a mess. Gotta be cool!
Completely forgot about the missed dunk by Gibson that would have gave us all the momentum.
Yeah the missed dunk and the goaltending non call were two crucial plays. Not making excuses for Frank or Taj but like you said the momentum shifted after that
Frank was embarrassing last night, it’s not that he sucks he just came out lazy. Obviously hard as a young guy to get benched and then have to come in for two minutes when you know the coach doesn’t like you.
But he needed to grind harder out there.
Obviously they missed a gold tend on his layup and Gibson missed a dunk on a nice feed, he probably plays better if those things go his way.
But, Smith is troubling. His attitude has always been a big question mark.
If KP stays healthy those picks amount to nothing, which is a big iff. But, front office needed to repair and let him play this season and figure out a better trade or convince him to stay here long term. Can’t trade a guy if the best you can do is Dennis Smith!
TPercy wrote:Was it just me or did Dennis Smith shot look...shot? Like the release was just way too slow, no confidence,etc..?
No confidence. He has a lot of hesitation on his jumpshot.
Gotta go with some due diligence, right? We had to have checked on him before the trade. His back issues were known to all.
We had all summer and then some before we extended him. So I assume this is not a case of incompetent error and omission of duty by knicks staff at any level. He lost weight, was "feeling good" and then preseason we get this rusty version who looks like a high school kid trying to guard men.
MS wrote:Frank was embarrassing last night, it’s not that he sucks he just came out lazy. Obviously hard as a young guy to get benched and then have to come in for two minutes when you know the coach doesn’t like you. But he needed to grind harder out there.
Obviously they missed a gold tend on his layup and Gibson missed a dunk on a nice feed, he probably plays better if those things go his way.
But, Smith is troubling. His attitude has always been a big question mark.
If KP stays healthy those picks amount to nothing, which is a big iff. But, front office needed to repair and let him play this season and figure out a better trade or convince him to stay here long term. Can’t trade a guy if the best you can do is Dennis Smith!
KP can't have off nights in the western conference he has be ready every night and lets be real the mavs played the tanking wizards. Mavs are still at bottom in the west even though they won yesterday doesn't mean crap we will see in april if the mavs are in the playoffs which i doubt. I thought frank should been excited his option got picked does knows what that means it means more money for him, but guess frank can't be happy with raise in salary because played liked crap he needs to go to the gleague asap. If dennis smith back is hurting then he shouldn't play at all and rest himself for at least a month. If both smith and frank play like garbage then you just give kadeem allen their minutes.
Kudo's to Barrett for really handling everything including slow starts well. This is really who he was in college also. Lets be real, high school to Star at duke is not easy jump. Zion eclipsed his star but even when he was out JR stepped up and handled a ton of pressure. To then make the jump to NBA and handle an awful summer league then turn it around in the same week. Same for preseason. Fiz kept playing him and he has adapted. He still has a long road and no doubt more to overcome. Teams will figure him out and he'll have a lot of lessons. This is part of the fun!
ANother silver lining was the quick 3's knox put up. He has moments. There are glimpses of his potential and he looked smooth at times.
Frank had two sequences bloody awful. The open court pass was really bad and his foul resulting on a 3 pt play. The rest of it was give and take as he did good as well.
Silver lining: While Fiz lost his cool perhaps there was a sense of urgency and maybe these guys have to get that if a culture/identity ever grows out of this thing. Fiz was equally as short with Smith and Trier as he was with Frank. Fiz also has to look in the mirror and ask himself could he have done better. Nalod don't like second guessing coaches because reality is im not a scout or a coach to do that. Its easy to second guess outcomes. I don't think these guys need motivation. I think they are nervous wrecks out there. Maybe smith is hurting physically?
TPercy wrote:Was it just me or did Dennis Smith shot look...shot? Like the release was just way too slow, no confidence,etc..?
And the way they consistently fell short, bouncing off the rim not even close. His shot looks bad. He looks bad all around.
I feel bad because he seems to want to do better, but he is terrible. Probably injured.
