Knicks · We need a backup PG so step up (page 2)
Vmart wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Vmart wrote:Keeping Frank in would not have given them the best chance to win. Frank’s run was like watching a reliever come in and get shelled.CrushAlot wrote:Vmart wrote:houston20 wrote:Vmart wrote:The PG that lost us the game was Barrett and the PG that almost won the game was Payton. Barrett is the real deal but he is not a PG and our ridiculous coach start a really bad line up and he did not learn from his very first mistake of the season which was the starting lineup of having Barrett as PG. Fast forwarding to the point where Payton picked up his fifth foul and Fizdale panicked and put Barrett at PG which opened the flood gates for the Spurs to do their damage. Fizdale needed a point guard and he should have gone to Frank right back showing confidence in him even Smith. This is what you get when you have a hack for a coach.“I’m a leader” that’s what Fizdale claims himself to be. No man leaders never say they are.
Frank give up 6 points in 2 minutes of action in the 4 quarter he needed to be bench and also payton won the starting job last night.He had a bad game I will be the first to admit it but our coach needed to go back to him when Payton picked up the fifth foul. Barrett is our sg and he is good at it and was thriving as the sg.
I don’t think Fiz thought the way Frank was playing that he could go back to him. It wasn’t the second quarter.Didn’t matter what he thought because they still lost. He didn’t give his team the best opportunity to win.
You can’t say that with certainty. But I can because the results are in on Fizdale’s decision.
Sorry. Frank was awful. I wish he wasn’t but you could make a strong argument that he got too much court time based on his play.
knicks1248 wrote:Nobody is "cuddling" Frank so i think you are being a bit overdramatic. We all agree he played awful last night. However its also fair to say putting him in that late in the game was a strange decision. I had no issue with Fiz pulling him after the turnovers, thats totally fine. I just didnt agree putting him in late in the 3rd when he is probably not gonna be in any rhythm from being on the bench most of the game.Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Vmart wrote:The PG that lost us the game was Barrett and the PG that almost won the game was Payton. Barrett is the real deal but he is not a PG and our ridiculous coach start a really bad line up and he did not learn from his very first mistake of the season which was the starting lineup of having Barrett as PG. Fast forwarding to the point where Payton picked up his fifth foul and Fizdale panicked and put Barrett at PG which opened the flood gates for the Spurs to do their damage. Fizdale needed a point guard and he should have gone to Frank right back showing confidence in him even Smith. This is what you get when you have a hack for a coach.“I’m a leader” that’s what Fizdale claims himself to be. No man leaders never say they are.
Your basically saying frank should be able play through his mistakes, but everybody else shouldn't.
Here we are in yr 3 with frank and he is yet to score 20 points...and it's still our biggest weakness as far as the position..or ppl wouldn't be starting threads like this
That dude killed all momentum, and i knew it..
Look at DSJ, he worked on his shooting for the entire summer with the knicks coaching staff, particularly with KEITH SMART, and look at him, does in even look remotely better??
development is suspect
At this point, frank should be on par with 19 yr old RJ
You always thing the worst of Frank so you "knew it" always. Even when Frank does good, he is bad in your eyes.
Vmart brings up a good point in that while RJ was playing good with Payton. When Payton left, its when it got ugly. If its UGLY, why not go with one of you PG's. Fiz blew thru 4 of the last night. I think What Vmart is saying is you gotta go with what you have. That moment you don't have the hindsight you so brazenly possess. Frank had a pretty good off and preseason. Thru the FIBA and preseason that was the worst stretch we have seen. If so, and you extend him, then why not go back? With the hindsight I NOW possess I CAN NOW say he should have gone back to Frank because after all, WHAT WAS THERE TO LOSE? See how easy that is AFTER THE GAME?
Payton was solid as we expected.I'm just tired of you guys always cuddling frank like he's kind of some baby that needs burping..
The kid is avg 5 points and shooting horrendous, and because he played well against the worst USA team that was ever assembled, you want to toot his horn.
well he needs to earn every minute like everyone else, he doesn't get special treatment because he's just a defender, I'm sorry there's more to the game than that...A lot more.
If he is playing well,and the team is winning, i would have brought his jersey, but he's not, and he's making the coaches job very difficult
Vmart wrote:The PG that lost us the game was Barrett and the PG that almost won the game was Payton. Barrett is the real deal but he is not a PG and our ridiculous coach start a really bad line up and he did not learn from his very first mistake of the season which was the starting lineup of having Barrett as PG. Fast forwarding to the point where Payton picked up his fifth foul and Fizdale panicked and put Barrett at PG which opened the flood gates for the Spurs to do their damage. Fizdale needed a point guard and he should have gone to Frank right back showing confidence in him even Smith. This is what you get when you have a hack for a coach.“I’m a leader” that’s what Fizdale claims himself to be. No man leaders never say they are.
I agree. Barrett was impressive except in those two stints
Coach should accept the blame. The Grizz GM at the time supposedly said Fizz can't close games and that's the real reason he was dumped (not Gasol). We have seen our own Gasol moment (except KP was shipped; and Franl soon to be). And I think there may be something to the statement about inability to close games
his shot is so flat and ugly. we're going to have one of those 1-8 soon and calling for a switch
Chandler wrote:i hope one game doesn't win Payton the jobhis shot is so flat and ugly. we're going to have one of those 1-8 soon and calling for a switch
But what’s the alternative? He’s no worse a shooter than frank or DSJ. And he’s a 2way player which they are not. He’s also the only real playmaker of the three. And he’s been the most efficient scorer of the three by a mile when comparing careers.
Chandler wrote:i hope one game doesn't win Payton the jobhis shot is so flat and ugly. we're going to have one of those 1-8 soon and calling for a switch
I don't get this type of argument. We all know Payton is not a world-beater on offense. And right now both of the alternatives suck on offense too.
But Payton did demonstrate solid defense (albeit fouling too much) and organized the offense and pushed the ball.
5 steals. And last year had a bunch of triple-doubles.
Feel like for PGs there are 3 major areas to look at them: Organizing offense, defense, and individual offensive output. Payton covers 2 of those fairly well for his role. Frank can display some defense but even that has looked not stellar because of the fouling. DSJr is all out of sorts.
Jmpasq wrote:Dennis SMith Jr has been a colossal disappointment
It looked like he had a back brace on when he was on the bench. He isn't as bad as he has looked. I don't think he is healthy.
CrushAlot wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Dennis SMith Jr has been a colossal disappointment
It looked like he had a back brace on when he was on the bench. He isn't as bad as he has looked. I don't think he is healthy.
Why play him? Play Frank an extended amount of time as the backup see what happens
Jmpasq wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Dennis SMith Jr has been a colossal disappointment
It looked like he had a back brace on when he was on the bench. He isn't as bad as he has looked. I don't think he is healthy.Why play him? Play Frank an extended amount of time as the backup see what happens
I agree but reports are that Smith is healthy. Also, if they sit Smith they need to activate Kadeem. The
knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Vmart wrote:The PG that lost us the game was Barrett and the PG that almost won the game was Payton. Barrett is the real deal but he is not a PG and our ridiculous coach start a really bad line up and he did not learn from his very first mistake of the season which was the starting lineup of having Barrett as PG. Fast forwarding to the point where Payton picked up his fifth foul and Fizdale panicked and put Barrett at PG which opened the flood gates for the Spurs to do their damage. Fizdale needed a point guard and he should have gone to Frank right back showing confidence in him even Smith. This is what you get when you have a hack for a coach.“I’m a leader” that’s what Fizdale claims himself to be. No man leaders never say they are.
Your basically saying frank should be able play through his mistakes, but everybody else shouldn't.
Here we are in yr 3 with frank and he is yet to score 20 points...and it's still our biggest weakness as far as the position..or ppl wouldn't be starting threads like this
That dude killed all momentum, and i knew it..
Look at DSJ, he worked on his shooting for the entire summer with the knicks coaching staff, particularly with KEITH SMART, and look at him, does in even look remotely better??
development is suspect
At this point, frank should be on par with 19 yr old RJ
You always thing the worst of Frank so you "knew it" always. Even when Frank does good, he is bad in your eyes.
Vmart brings up a good point in that while RJ was playing good with Payton. When Payton left, its when it got ugly. If its UGLY, why not go with one of you PG's. Fiz blew thru 4 of the last night. I think What Vmart is saying is you gotta go with what you have. That moment you don't have the hindsight you so brazenly possess. Frank had a pretty good off and preseason. Thru the FIBA and preseason that was the worst stretch we have seen. If so, and you extend him, then why not go back? With the hindsight I NOW possess I CAN NOW say he should have gone back to Frank because after all, WHAT WAS THERE TO LOSE? See how easy that is AFTER THE GAME?
Payton was solid as we expected.I'm just tired of you guys always cuddling frank like he's kind of some baby that needs burping..
The kid is avg 5 points and shooting horrendous, and because he played well against the worst USA team that was ever assembled, you want to toot his horn.
well he needs to earn every minute like everyone else, he doesn't get special treatment because he's just a defender, I'm sorry there's more to the game than that...A lot more.
If he is playing well,and the team is winning, i would have brought his jersey, but he's not, and he's making the coaches job very difficult
Nobody is cuddling him and for sure your not administering any tough love. We write threads.
Kemet wrote:Today, the Knicks are in desperate need of head coach Mark Jackson input on how to run the guard-rotation having Payton Ellington Frank Dotson DSJ and Trier, and all the area of the game u want rookie RJ Barrett to excel on throughout the season to get the ROY.
Mark Jax was a long time ago.
CrushAlot wrote:Jmpasq wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Dennis SMith Jr has been a colossal disappointment
It looked like he had a back brace on when he was on the bench. He isn't as bad as he has looked. I don't think he is healthy.Why play him? Play Frank an extended amount of time as the backup see what happens
I agree but reports are that Smith is healthy. Also, if they sit Smith they need to activate Kadeem. The
The Knicks head-coach has NO Plans and NO B.ball-SYSTEM .. All B.ball system in the NBA are ran through the guards .. Any time a NBA head-coach cry bout the guards he have means the team is looking at having a LOTTERY season. What did Fizdale and DSJ and Dotson and Trier do throughout the offseason ???
Frank was in FIBA .. and the Knicks gym was open throughout the offseason WTF
Nalod wrote:Kemet wrote:Today, the Knicks are in desperate need of head coach Mark Jackson input on how to run the guard-rotation having Payton Ellington Frank Dotson DSJ and Trier, and all the area of the game u want rookie RJ Barrett to excel on throughout the season to get the ROY.Mark Jax was a long time ago.
Mark was available till August before he got the announcer job. Mills/Perry should've offered Mark or Kidd or Vogel the $$$ assistant head coach job in May after Fizdale's 17 Win season. Lakers grabbed Vogel and Kidd !!!
knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Vmart wrote:The PG that lost us the game was Barrett and the PG that almost won the game was Payton. Barrett is the real deal but he is not a PG and our ridiculous coach start a really bad line up and he did not learn from his very first mistake of the season which was the starting lineup of having Barrett as PG. Fast forwarding to the point where Payton picked up his fifth foul and Fizdale panicked and put Barrett at PG which opened the flood gates for the Spurs to do their damage. Fizdale needed a point guard and he should have gone to Frank right back showing confidence in him even Smith. This is what you get when you have a hack for a coach.“I’m a leader” that’s what Fizdale claims himself to be. No man leaders never say they are.
Your basically saying frank should be able play through his mistakes, but everybody else shouldn't.
Here we are in yr 3 with frank and he is yet to score 20 points...and it's still our biggest weakness as far as the position..or ppl wouldn't be starting threads like this
That dude killed all momentum, and i knew it..
Look at DSJ, he worked on his shooting for the entire summer with the knicks coaching staff, particularly with KEITH SMART, and look at him, does in even look remotely better??
development is suspect
At this point, frank should be on par with 19 yr old RJ
You always thing the worst of Frank so you "knew it" always. Even when Frank does good, he is bad in your eyes.
Vmart brings up a good point in that while RJ was playing good with Payton. When Payton left, its when it got ugly. If its UGLY, why not go with one of you PG's. Fiz blew thru 4 of the last night. I think What Vmart is saying is you gotta go with what you have. That moment you don't have the hindsight you so brazenly possess. Frank had a pretty good off and preseason. Thru the FIBA and preseason that was the worst stretch we have seen. If so, and you extend him, then why not go back? With the hindsight I NOW possess I CAN NOW say he should have gone back to Frank because after all, WHAT WAS THERE TO LOSE? See how easy that is AFTER THE GAME?
Payton was solid as we expected.I'm just tired of you guys always cuddling frank like he's kind of some baby that needs burping..
The kid is avg 5 points and shooting horrendous, and because he played well against the worst USA team that was ever assembled, you want to toot his horn.
well he needs to earn every minute like everyone else, he doesn't get special treatment because he's just a defender, I'm sorry there's more to the game than that...A lot more.
If he is playing well,and the team is winning, i would have brought his jersey, but he's not, and he's making the coaches job very difficult
HERE WE GO...
The UK forum is going to need a permanent sticky thread for "The Sky is Falling, Frankie had a bad game and I told you so".
Frankie has played all of like 4 minutes this season and already the bile is flowing. Not only does a couple of turnovers prove he is beyond redemption but Fizdale should be fired AND Mark Jackson will rescue these poor guards!
Yeah. Let's all sign up for that.
Actually, Frankie wasn't the only one who turned the ball over or showed a few warts. Actually I thought is was a fairly interesting game in that the Knicks held their own with a damned fine Spurs team.
Prior to the game I watched a Frankie video in which he was questioned about his feelings on the new contract. He is focused on getting better and talked about how all the contending guards are supportive of each other. I think Knicks fans would be smart to do the same.
I thought the Trier start was a bit of a pacifier. He started and sat out a lot of the game. Payton showed the importance of defense and Frankie will in coming games as well.
My gut tells me DSJ has a chronically bad back. These take a long time to recover from and are tempermental. If DSJ plays,it should be limited minutes off the bench until he gets his mojo back.
I'm a contrarian in that I think the Knicks are set at PG just in terms of a numbers game. They have the firepower elsewhere that they don't need big points from the position assuming the defense is there.
I thought the turning point in the game was the ill advised shots being taken, missed, and one and done in the fourth. Otherwise a surprisingly winnable game. Good things are coming.
Kemet wrote:The Lakers grabbed Vogel and Kidd after Lue and Monty turned them down. they were accused of not offering a fair market contract to Lue and he balked. They got guys that were not wanted by other teams.Nalod wrote:Kemet wrote:Today, the Knicks are in desperate need of head coach Mark Jackson input on how to run the guard-rotation having Payton Ellington Frank Dotson DSJ and Trier, and all the area of the game u want rookie RJ Barrett to excel on throughout the season to get the ROY.Mark Jax was a long time ago.
Mark was available till August before he got the announcer job. Mills/Perry should've offered Mark or Kidd or Vogel the $$$ assistant head coach job in May after Fizdale's 17 Win season. Lakers grabbed Vogel and Kidd !!!
CrushAlot wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Dennis SMith Jr has been a colossal disappointment
It looked like he had a back brace on when he was on the bench. He isn't as bad as he has looked. I don't think he is healthy.
Its becoming a trend.
The Knicks better hope to get good talent from the picks they got from the KP trade, because Smith Jr. will most probably not turn into a valuable asset.
CrushAlot wrote:Jmpasq wrote:CrushAlot wrote:Jmpasq wrote:Dennis SMith Jr has been a colossal disappointment
It looked like he had a back brace on when he was on the bench. He isn't as bad as he has looked. I don't think he is healthy.Why play him? Play Frank an extended amount of time as the backup see what happens
I agree but reports are that Smith is healthy. Also, if they sit Smith they need to activate Kadeem. The
I would do that already!
Kadeem is already our second best PG right now. (Wishing Frank make me regret those words, but no signs so far.)
StarksEwing1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Nobody is "cuddling" Frank so i think you are being a bit overdramatic. We all agree he played awful last night. However its also fair to say putting him in that late in the game was a strange decision. I had no issue with Fiz pulling him after the turnovers, thats totally fine. I just didn't agree putting him in late in the 3rd when he is probably not gonna be in any rhythm from being on the bench most of the game.Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Vmart wrote:The PG that lost us the game was Barrett and the PG that almost won the game was Payton. Barrett is the real deal but he is not a PG and our ridiculous coach start a really bad line up and he did not learn from his very first mistake of the season which was the starting lineup of having Barrett as PG. Fast forwarding to the point where Payton picked up his fifth foul and Fizdale panicked and put Barrett at PG which opened the flood gates for the Spurs to do their damage. Fizdale needed a point guard and he should have gone to Frank right back showing confidence in him even Smith. This is what you get when you have a hack for a coach.“I’m a leader” that’s what Fizdale claims himself to be. No man leaders never say they are.
Your basically saying frank should be able play through his mistakes, but everybody else shouldn't.
Here we are in yr 3 with frank and he is yet to score 20 points...and it's still our biggest weakness as far as the position..or ppl wouldn't be starting threads like this
That dude killed all momentum, and i knew it..
Look at DSJ, he worked on his shooting for the entire summer with the knicks coaching staff, particularly with KEITH SMART, and look at him, does in even look remotely better??
development is suspect
At this point, frank should be on par with 19 yr old RJ
You always thing the worst of Frank so you "knew it" always. Even when Frank does good, he is bad in your eyes.
Vmart brings up a good point in that while RJ was playing good with Payton. When Payton left, its when it got ugly. If its UGLY, why not go with one of you PG's. Fiz blew thru 4 of the last night. I think What Vmart is saying is you gotta go with what you have. That moment you don't have the hindsight you so brazenly possess. Frank had a pretty good off and preseason. Thru the FIBA and preseason that was the worst stretch we have seen. If so, and you extend him, then why not go back? With the hindsight I NOW possess I CAN NOW say he should have gone back to Frank because after all, WHAT WAS THERE TO LOSE? See how easy that is AFTER THE GAME?
Payton was solid as we expected.I'm just tired of you guys always cuddling frank like he's kind of some baby that needs burping..
The kid is avg 5 points and shooting horrendous, and because he played well against the worst USA team that was ever assembled, you want to toot his horn.
well he needs to earn every minute like everyone else, he doesn't get special treatment because he's just a defender, I'm sorry there's more to the game than that...A lot more.
If he is playing well,and the team is winning, i would have brought his jersey, but he's not, and he's making the coaches job very difficult
I definitely agree, it was ridiculous, but thats how fiz roles, his lack of experience is so evident.
He is very unsure about his rotations, doesn't have much of a play book, so I'm not sure what he's good at other than motivating players.
You can't rotate 11 guys in a game, thats some kurt rambis and derek fisher crap..
Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Vmart wrote:The PG that lost us the game was Barrett and the PG that almost won the game was Payton. Barrett is the real deal but he is not a PG and our ridiculous coach start a really bad line up and he did not learn from his very first mistake of the season which was the starting lineup of having Barrett as PG. Fast forwarding to the point where Payton picked up his fifth foul and Fizdale panicked and put Barrett at PG which opened the flood gates for the Spurs to do their damage. Fizdale needed a point guard and he should have gone to Frank right back showing confidence in him even Smith. This is what you get when you have a hack for a coach.“I’m a leader” that’s what Fizdale claims himself to be. No man leaders never say they are.
Your basically saying frank should be able play through his mistakes, but everybody else shouldn't.
Here we are in yr 3 with frank and he is yet to score 20 points...and it's still our biggest weakness as far as the position..or ppl wouldn't be starting threads like this
That dude killed all momentum, and i knew it..
Look at DSJ, he worked on his shooting for the entire summer with the knicks coaching staff, particularly with KEITH SMART, and look at him, does in even look remotely better??
development is suspect
At this point, frank should be on par with 19 yr old RJ
You always thing the worst of Frank so you "knew it" always. Even when Frank does good, he is bad in your eyes.
Vmart brings up a good point in that while RJ was playing good with Payton. When Payton left, its when it got ugly. If its UGLY, why not go with one of you PG's. Fiz blew thru 4 of the last night. I think What Vmart is saying is you gotta go with what you have. That moment you don't have the hindsight you so brazenly possess. Frank had a pretty good off and preseason. Thru the FIBA and preseason that was the worst stretch we have seen. If so, and you extend him, then why not go back? With the hindsight I NOW possess I CAN NOW say he should have gone back to Frank because after all, WHAT WAS THERE TO LOSE? See how easy that is AFTER THE GAME?
Payton was solid as we expected.I'm just tired of you guys always cuddling frank like he's kind of some baby that needs burping..
The kid is avg 5 points and shooting horrendous, and because he played well against the worst USA team that was ever assembled, you want to toot his horn.
well he needs to earn every minute like everyone else, he doesn't get special treatment because he's just a defender, I'm sorry there's more to the game than that...A lot more.
If he is playing well,and the team is winning, i would have brought his jersey, but he's not, and he's making the coaches job very difficult
Nobody is cuddling him and for sure your not administering any tough love. We write threads.
Critic isn't the problem. The problem is the flat out disingenuous nonsense Knicks1248 constantly puts out.
DSjr back is clearly messing with his game and he attacks the Knicks for not "developing" his jumper. SMH
Frank playing against the worst "USA roster ever assembled" like that matters when Frank of all people takes over a game with Allstars in it, and he isn't one.
"He hasn't scored 20pts" in a game ok he scored 18pts.
"That kid killed all the momentum" Payton coming out alone was gonna kill the momentum since he is practically the reason we came back. With 8mins left in the 4th, 4mins of game play after Frank was taken out. Knicks were up 97-91. After going on a 13-5 run with Knox starting the run with back to back 3s set up by Randle, followed by an Ellington 3.
Spurs then go on a 18-0 run after that to win the game. Lead by Derozan with back to back drives, creating transition assist after stops for corner 3s and fouls.
When Frank entered the game he registered a stl and what should have been a layup immediately. He then turned the ball over with a bad pass, Then set up Gibson with a nice PNR dunk which he missed. Then turned the ball over again with another bad pass and gave up an and one. His layup and pass to Gibson should have been 4 pts added from his creation that was taken away. All his positives were taken away for no faults of his own while his negatives were highlighted.