Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Vmart wrote:The PG that lost us the game was Barrett and the PG that almost won the game was Payton. Barrett is the real deal but he is not a PG and our ridiculous coach start a really bad line up and he did not learn from his very first mistake of the season which was the starting lineup of having Barrett as PG. Fast forwarding to the point where Payton picked up his fifth foul and Fizdale panicked and put Barrett at PG which opened the flood gates for the Spurs to do their damage. Fizdale needed a point guard and he should have gone to Frank right back showing confidence in him even Smith. This is what you get when you have a hack for a coach. “I’m a leader” that’s what Fizdale claims himself to be. No man leaders never say they are.
Your basically saying frank should be able play through his mistakes, but everybody else shouldn't.
Here we are in yr 3 with frank and he is yet to score 20 points...and it's still our biggest weakness as far as the position..or ppl wouldn't be starting threads like this
That dude killed all momentum, and i knew it..
Look at DSJ, he worked on his shooting for the entire summer with the knicks coaching staff, particularly with KEITH SMART, and look at him, does in even look remotely better??
development is suspect
At this point, frank should be on par with 19 yr old RJ
You always thing the worst of Frank so you "knew it" always. Even when Frank does good, he is bad in your eyes.
Vmart brings up a good point in that while RJ was playing good with Payton. When Payton left, its when it got ugly. If its UGLY, why not go with one of you PG's. Fiz blew thru 4 of the last night. I think What Vmart is saying is you gotta go with what you have. That moment you don't have the hindsight you so brazenly possess. Frank had a pretty good off and preseason. Thru the FIBA and preseason that was the worst stretch we have seen. If so, and you extend him, then why not go back? With the hindsight I NOW possess I CAN NOW say he should have gone back to Frank because after all, WHAT WAS THERE TO LOSE? See how easy that is AFTER THE GAME?
Payton was solid as we expected.
I'm just tired of you guys always cuddling frank like he's kind of some baby that needs burping..
The kid is avg 5 points and shooting horrendous, and because he played well against the worst USA team that was ever assembled, you want to toot his horn.
well he needs to earn every minute like everyone else, he doesn't get special treatment because he's just a defender, I'm sorry there's more to the game than that...A lot more.
If he is playing well,and the team is winning, i would have brought his jersey, but he's not, and he's making the coaches job very difficult
Nobody is cuddling him and for sure your not administering any tough love. We write threads.
Critic isn't the problem. The problem is the flat out disingenuous nonsense Knicks1248 constantly puts out.
DSjr back is clearly messing with his game and he attacks the Knicks for not "developing" his jumper. SMH
Frank playing against the worst "USA roster ever assembled" like that matters when Frank of all people takes over a game with Allstars in it, and he isn't one.
"He hasn't scored 20pts" in a game ok he scored 18pts.
"That kid killed all the momentum" Payton coming out alone was gonna kill the momentum since he is practically the reason we came back. With 8mins left in the 4th, 4mins of game play after Frank was taken out. Knicks were up 97-91. After going on a 13-5 run with Knox starting the run with back to back 3s set up by Randle, followed by an Ellington 3.
Spurs then go on a 18-0 run after that to win the game. Lead by Derozan with back to back drives, creating transition assist after stops for corner 3s and fouls.
When Frank entered the game he registered a stl and what should have been a layup immediately. He then turned the ball over with a bad pass, Then set up Gibson with a nice PNR dunk which he missed. Then turned the ball over again with another bad pass and gave up an and one. His layup and pass to Gibson should have been 4 pts added from his creation that was taken away. All his positives were taken away for no faults of his own while his negatives were highlighted.
StarksEwing1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Vmart wrote:The PG that lost us the game was Barrett and the PG that almost won the game was Payton. Barrett is the real deal but he is not a PG and our ridiculous coach start a really bad line up and he did not learn from his very first mistake of the season which was the starting lineup of having Barrett as PG. Fast forwarding to the point where Payton picked up his fifth foul and Fizdale panicked and put Barrett at PG which opened the flood gates for the Spurs to do their damage. Fizdale needed a point guard and he should have gone to Frank right back showing confidence in him even Smith. This is what you get when you have a hack for a coach. “I’m a leader” that’s what Fizdale claims himself to be. No man leaders never say they are.
Your basically saying frank should be able play through his mistakes, but everybody else shouldn't.
Here we are in yr 3 with frank and he is yet to score 20 points...and it's still our biggest weakness as far as the position..or ppl wouldn't be starting threads like this
That dude killed all momentum, and i knew it..
Look at DSJ, he worked on his shooting for the entire summer with the knicks coaching staff, particularly with KEITH SMART, and look at him, does in even look remotely better??
development is suspect
At this point, frank should be on par with 19 yr old RJ
You always thing the worst of Frank so you "knew it" always. Even when Frank does good, he is bad in your eyes.
Vmart brings up a good point in that while RJ was playing good with Payton. When Payton left, its when it got ugly. If its UGLY, why not go with one of you PG's. Fiz blew thru 4 of the last night. I think What Vmart is saying is you gotta go with what you have. That moment you don't have the hindsight you so brazenly possess. Frank had a pretty good off and preseason. Thru the FIBA and preseason that was the worst stretch we have seen. If so, and you extend him, then why not go back? With the hindsight I NOW possess I CAN NOW say he should have gone back to Frank because after all, WHAT WAS THERE TO LOSE? See how easy that is AFTER THE GAME?
Payton was solid as we expected.
I'm just tired of you guys always cuddling frank like he's kind of some baby that needs burping..
The kid is avg 5 points and shooting horrendous, and because he played well against the worst USA team that was ever assembled, you want to toot his horn.
well he needs to earn every minute like everyone else, he doesn't get special treatment because he's just a defender, I'm sorry there's more to the game than that...A lot more.
If he is playing well,and the team is winning, i would have brought his jersey, but he's not, and he's making the coaches job very difficult
Nobody is "cuddling" Frank so i think you are being a bit overdramatic. We all agree he played awful last night. However its also fair to say putting him in that late in the game was a strange decision. I had no issue with Fiz pulling him after the turnovers, thats totally fine. I just didnt agree putting him in late in the 3rd when he is probably not gonna be in any rhythm from being on the bench most of the game.
Given the options I believe it was the correct decision. Payton was in foul trouble. Smith couldn't defend the PG position giveing up layup after layup. It makes sense for Fizz to go with Frank there to stop the penetration from the PG position with Payton out. Frank most likely wasn't in the plans to play this game unless injury or foul trouble which is why he didn't play the first. Smith should have gotten all those backup PG mins but he got cooked. Payton even got the mins he got because Barrett didn't look good at PG and Smith got cooked.
how much better would we be if we had retained Mudiay? Now I know there is no way we would have kept him and signed Payton and also had DSjr & Frank on the same roster- but we probably should have tried to trade DSjr in the off season- maybe we could have gotten a 2nd rounder for him!
knicks1248 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Nalod wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Vmart wrote:The PG that lost us the game was Barrett and the PG that almost won the game was Payton. Barrett is the real deal but he is not a PG and our ridiculous coach start a really bad line up and he did not learn from his very first mistake of the season which was the starting lineup of having Barrett as PG. Fast forwarding to the point where Payton picked up his fifth foul and Fizdale panicked and put Barrett at PG which opened the flood gates for the Spurs to do their damage. Fizdale needed a point guard and he should have gone to Frank right back showing confidence in him even Smith. This is what you get when you have a hack for a coach. “I’m a leader” that’s what Fizdale claims himself to be. No man leaders never say they are.
Your basically saying frank should be able play through his mistakes, but everybody else shouldn't.
Here we are in yr 3 with frank and he is yet to score 20 points...and it's still our biggest weakness as far as the position..or ppl wouldn't be starting threads like this
That dude killed all momentum, and i knew it..
Look at DSJ, he worked on his shooting for the entire summer with the knicks coaching staff, particularly with KEITH SMART, and look at him, does in even look remotely better??
development is suspect
At this point, frank should be on par with 19 yr old RJ
You always thing the worst of Frank so you "knew it" always. Even when Frank does good, he is bad in your eyes.
Vmart brings up a good point in that while RJ was playing good with Payton. When Payton left, its when it got ugly. If its UGLY, why not go with one of you PG's. Fiz blew thru 4 of the last night. I think What Vmart is saying is you gotta go with what you have. That moment you don't have the hindsight you so brazenly possess. Frank had a pretty good off and preseason. Thru the FIBA and preseason that was the worst stretch we have seen. If so, and you extend him, then why not go back? With the hindsight I NOW possess I CAN NOW say he should have gone back to Frank because after all, WHAT WAS THERE TO LOSE? See how easy that is AFTER THE GAME?
Payton was solid as we expected.
I'm just tired of you guys always cuddling frank like he's kind of some baby that needs burping..
The kid is avg 5 points and shooting horrendous, and because he played well against the worst USA team that was ever assembled, you want to toot his horn.
well he needs to earn every minute like everyone else, he doesn't get special treatment because he's just a defender, I'm sorry there's more to the game than that...A lot more.
If he is playing well,and the team is winning, i would have brought his jersey, but he's not, and he's making the coaches job very difficult
Nobody is "cuddling" Frank so i think you are being a bit overdramatic. We all agree he played awful last night. However its also fair to say putting him in that late in the game was a strange decision. I had no issue with Fiz pulling him after the turnovers, thats totally fine. I just didn't agree putting him in late in the 3rd when he is probably not gonna be in any rhythm from being on the bench most of the game.
I definitely agree, it was ridiculous, but thats how fiz roles, his lack of experience is so evident.
He is very unsure about his rotations, doesn't have much of a play book, so I'm not sure what he's good at other than motivating players.
You can't rotate 11 guys in a game, thats some kurt rambis and derek fisher crap..
After an awful start Fiz the knicks got back in the game and had a 6pt lead. Ebb and flow dictates that a lot of energy was expended to get that lead. Good teams will punch back. Murry and Derozon, along with Aldridge with fundamentally sound players all coached by a top 10 of all time named Pop. As you said, frank was thrown into a bad situation. When he took him out I thought we were still up by 2?
After frank left, SAS ran us out of the building. Again, Not saying Frank would have turned the tide.
But until that moment Fiz coached on the fly and made adjustments. You condemn him as a career loser.
We might fire his ass after this season, but he gets 81 more games unless he loses his locker-room.
Just remember your "That guy". Frank comes in and your like "Huh, we gonna lose the lead"......Drunk uncle stuff. Knicks lose and you have some feeling of victory for "see, I told you!"? Really? Your the sour guy. One day it will change.
franco12 wrote:how much better would we be if we had retained Mudiay? Now I know there is no way we would have kept him and signed Payton and also had DSjr & Frank on the same roster- but we probably should have tried to trade DSjr in the off season- maybe we could have gotten a 2nd rounder for him!
I don't the knicks management was ever going to trade dsj especially after the kp trade he is the most important player because of that trade. I do agree with you the knicks should have given mudiay his qualifing offer of 6 million dollars, could told mudiay just to become a combo guard and still signed payton. I am still going to give dsj a change but if he is hurt then he should take a month off and get healthy. I am more disappointed in frank he shouldn't be this behind on offensive side of ball its getting really embarrassing and all i am asking from from frank get at least 7-10 points a night and 5 assist a night. I know frank is never going to be guy to average 20 points a night that just never going to happen but just give half of that 10 points and 5 assist but even that is difficult for him. Like i said earlier if both dsj and frank struggle the knicks management either make a trade for kris dunn of the bulls or activate kadeem allen as emergency point guard. I believe the knicks just average point guard to the playoffs but they need dsj or frank to produce to get there if there is no trade.
houston20 wrote:franco12 wrote:how much better would we be if we had retained Mudiay? Now I know there is no way we would have kept him and signed Payton and also had DSjr & Frank on the same roster- but we probably should have tried to trade DSjr in the off season- maybe we could have gotten a 2nd rounder for him!
I don't the knicks management was ever going to trade dsj especially after the kp trade he is the most important player because of that trade. I do agree with you the knicks should have given mudiay his qualifing offer of 6 million dollars, could told mudiay just to become a combo guard and still signed payton. I am still going to give dsj a change but if he is hurt then he should take a month off and get healthy. I am more disappointed in frank he shouldn't be this behind on offensive side of ball its getting really embarrassing and all i am asking from from frank get at least 7-10 points a night and 5 assist a night. I know frank is never going to be guy to average 20 points a night that just never going to happen but just give half of that 10 points and 5 assist but even that is difficult for him. Like i said earlier if both dsj and frank struggle the knicks management either make a trade for kris dunn of the bulls or activate kadeem allen as emergency point guard. I believe the knicks just average point guard to the playoffs but they need dsj or frank to produce to get there if there is no trade.
We one game in. one. Fiba frank is in there. We need to "cuddle" it out of him!
I am hoping DSJ is resting in a suit and that Kadeem is active. Hopefully Kadeem or Frank can resemble a competent back up point.
CrushAlot wrote:I am hoping DSJ is resting in a suit and that Kadeem is active. Hopefully Kadeem or Frank can resemble a competent back up point.
I expect a good game from Frank. He usually shows up against the Nets. I'm also hoping DSJ is getting rest. For all his faults, I know he's better than what he's shown.
BigDaddyG wrote:CrushAlot wrote:I am hoping DSJ is resting in a suit and that Kadeem is active. Hopefully Kadeem or Frank can resemble a competent back up point.
I expect a good game from Frank. He usually shows up against the Nets. I'm also hoping DSJ is getting rest. For all his faults, I know he's better than what he's shown.
True on DSJr, though it’s alarming they keep saying he is healthy. He really doesn’t look like that, but if he is, that’s worrisome.
