Knicks · It’s time to fire fiz (page 3)

fwk00 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

fwk00 wrote:I also have a theory that's unorthodox and probably too wild for anyone here to believe.

Is it possible that Fizdale's ego is such that he wants to be BFF with the Kemba's and Kyrie's of the NBA social set?

Playing Frankie might be a case of shutting them both down in embarrassing fashion. That won't get Fizdale invited to any swinging party anytime soon.

He could be saving Frankie for the unwinnable games so he could say, "See, told you so. Frankie does nothing to win games."

Stay woke.

Its not too wild for me to believe, its sophmoric.
Fiz is trending to Rambis territory but more likable.

Fizdale's coaching decisions border on the quality of dialogue in the Geico commercial about a chainsaw murderer being loose and the girl says, "why don't we just get in the running car and go?" [for example *use Frankie for defense*] and the boyfriend says, "No, let's hide behind the chainsaws in the barn!" [let's thrown DSJ out there one more time}.

I mean how can even the dumbest fan make sense of this coaching?

Fiz is in NY not to coach this team to win a chip or even get to the playoffs.
His job is to guide the group of misfits on team coming up from the NBA sht-holl.
He should be a communicator and evaluator.
But most of all he have to put players we evaluating into setting which will provide for very clear picture of what this player are capable of and made up from.
Also he must build up the value of all assets we have for future trade opportunities.
Of course this will lead to bunch of losing and collecting more assets as a result.
After we will get a balanced team of capable NBA players Fiz can be let go and capable experienced winning coach who is matching the personal in place can be hired.
Building winning NBA team is a long task and need specific people at every stage.
I think we get a good one for what we need now.
And forget about he winning. Not happening this season for sure.

arkrud wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

fwk00 wrote:I also have a theory that's unorthodox and probably too wild for anyone here to believe.

Is it possible that Fizdale's ego is such that he wants to be BFF with the Kemba's and Kyrie's of the NBA social set?

Playing Frankie might be a case of shutting them both down in embarrassing fashion. That won't get Fizdale invited to any swinging party anytime soon.

He could be saving Frankie for the unwinnable games so he could say, "See, told you so. Frankie does nothing to win games."

Stay woke.

Its not too wild for me to believe, its sophmoric.
Fiz is trending to Rambis territory but more likable.

Fizdale's coaching decisions border on the quality of dialogue in the Geico commercial about a chainsaw murderer being loose and the girl says, "why don't we just get in the running car and go?" [for example *use Frankie for defense*] and the boyfriend says, "No, let's hide behind the chainsaws in the barn!" [let's thrown DSJ out there one more time}.

I mean how can even the dumbest fan make sense of this coaching?

Fiz is in NY not to coach this team to win a chip or even get to the playoffs.
His job is to guide the group of misfits on team coming up from the NBA sht-holl.
He should be a communicator and evaluator.
But most of all he have to put players we evaluating into setting which will provide for very clear picture of what this player are capable of and made up from.
Also he must build up the value of all assets we have for future trade opportunities.
Of course this will lead to bunch of losing and collecting more assets as a result.
After we will get a balanced team of capable NBA players Fiz can be let go and capable experienced winning coach who is matching the personal in place can be hired.
Building winning NBA team is a long task and need specific people at every stage.
I think we get a good one for what we need now.
And forget about he winning. Not happening this season for sure.

Fiz is hard to figure out. He *should be* here to get to the playoffs [this year] AND eventually win a ring.

He's worthless otherwise. He's not a guide, communicator, or even evaluator [see: Mudiay, play-calling, preseason "competition" - all antithetical to all of that].

Building up assets by losing every game is an uphill battle. And losing doesn't return better assets but worse.

If he's incapable of coaching and winning with imperfect players, he should look elsewhere.

Winning has to start happening this year. No excuses. We shouldn't expect miracles but season games aren't the venue for therapy sessions for lost NBA souls either.

We all have our own ideas of what SHOULD happen. Fiz came here to coach KP, some veterans and we have our picks. We had cap space sign a stud. Instead he was here for the final tear down to the studs. Maybe he was hired as a last hope for a coach to relate to KP>. He did make the trip (effort) to visit Latvia.
He is here to coach, motivate and guide his staff for development. Last year was a tear down again. He needs by some measurements show some progress. I don’t know how to measure it

Who says NY fans ain't patient Who said you can't rebuild in NY

Uptown wrote:Who says NY fans ain't patient Who said you can't rebuild in NY

I am patient but I won't tolerate double standards. Everyone should be treated the same way. Fizdale has not done this.

NYKBocker wrote:

Uptown wrote:Who says NY fans ain't patient Who said you can't rebuild in NY

I am patient but I won't tolerate double standards. Everyone should be treated the same way. Fizdale has not done this.

How does a fan quantify and measure that equality?

NYKBocker wrote:

Uptown wrote:Who says NY fans ain't patient Who said you can't rebuild in NY

I am patient but I won't tolerate double standards. Everyone should be treated the same way. Fizdale has not done this.

Which NBA coach does? There is no equality.
Some players are stars, some good enough for NBA, and some are junk.
This is business not charity.

arkrud wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Uptown wrote:Who says NY fans ain't patient Who said you can't rebuild in NY

I am patient but I won't tolerate double standards. Everyone should be treated the same way. Fizdale has not done this.

Which NBA coach does? There is no equality.
Some players are stars, some good enough for NBA, and some are junk.
This is business not charity.

Charity? I thought the NYK is all about charity. Hezonja, Mudiay, Payton Noah, Amare, H20. This charitable list is long.

Uptown wrote:Who says NY fans ain't patient Who said you can't rebuild in NY

I'm patient.

But what happened to DSjr? I mean, we don't even have the DSjr from last year. Just come out and say he's hurt or something.

And Fiba Frank? Not even a hint of him. Deer in headlights Frank instead.

And here is the thing for me about Fizdale. After the SA game, clearly Payton is our best PG. Why did it take a game for Fizdale and the coaching staff to figure that out? I knew that from before, and I'm not watching practice.

I like Fizdale. I think he is articulate, but I'm starting to wonder about his approach here. Maybe he is too focused on his approach like Phil was with the triangle.

Maybe we need someone like a Hubie Brown who called every play, a Jeff Van Gundy where the offense is stupid simple to build a foundation of habits for these players.

And then, after they master stuff, start adding wrinkles, the read and reacts.

But right now I think maybe we need - you stand there, you pass the ball here, if he is open, pass it - otherwise, you make your move.

franco12 wrote:

Uptown wrote:Who says NY fans ain't patient Who said you can't rebuild in NY

I'm patient.

But what happened to DSjr? I mean, we don't even have the DSjr from last year. Just come out and say he's hurt or something.

And Fiba Frank? Not even a hint of him. Deer in headlights Frank instead.

And here is the thing for me about Fizdale. After the SA game, clearly Payton is our best PG. Why did it take a game for Fizdale and the coaching staff to figure that out? I knew that from before, and I'm not watching practice.

I like Fizdale. I think he is articulate, but I'm starting to wonder about his approach here. Maybe he is too focused on his approach like Phil was with the triangle.

Maybe we need someone like a Hubie Brown who called every play, a Jeff Van Gundy where the offense is stupid simple to build a foundation of habits for these players.

And then, after they master stuff, start adding wrinkles, the read and reacts.

But right now I think maybe we need - you stand there, you pass the ball here, if he is open, pass it - otherwise, you make your move.

yeah fiz is causing more and more wonder. looks loke mike miller may be relieving him sooner than later.

Don't blame FIZ, blame the person responsible for bringing him here and assembling a misfit roster with no official PG..

Fiz was totally TRASH last season and it had nothing to with tanking, he failed to establish anything,I mean nothing at all, more importantly, he absolutely did a horrendous job with his rotation, no identity, no roles, just YMCA BALL every single night..and chopping tres.

Now we enter another season playing at the local Y

franco12 wrote:

Uptown wrote:Who says NY fans ain't patient Who said you can't rebuild in NY

I'm patient.

But what happened to DSjr? I mean, we don't even have the DSjr from last year. Just come out and say he's hurt or something.

And Fiba Frank? Not even a hint of him. Deer in headlights Frank instead.

And here is the thing for me about Fizdale. After the SA game, clearly Payton is our best PG. Why did it take a game for Fizdale and the coaching staff to figure that out? I knew that from before, and I'm not watching practice.

I like Fizdale. I think he is articulate, but I'm starting to wonder about his approach here. Maybe he is too focused on his approach like Phil was with the triangle.

Maybe we need someone like a Hubie Brown who called every play, a Jeff Van Gundy where the offense is stupid simple to build a foundation of habits for these players.

And then, after they master stuff, start adding wrinkles, the read and reacts.

But right now I think maybe we need - you stand there, you pass the ball here, if he is open, pass it - otherwise, you make your move.

Lets look at Cleveland. New coach...great college coach. they are running a motion offense and they look decent! Cleveland had the same pre-season NY had.

Thought it said "its time to fire Fitz"

Not denying that its somewhat disconcerting to watch a team without a coherent system. No screens, 4th quarter busts. Some things look like they could be resolved with better adjustments. Until we have a PG who becomes the team's floor general, its going to be ugly at times. Payton might be the best choice, with Frank the first PG coming off the bench. Smith jr. might not be ready for a while.

Once the PG situation is sorted out, believe we will have a better idea if Fizdale is right for the job. Way too early to talk about firing the coach.

Lack of identity is one thing -- a big thing. But there are many many things that point to him being over his head. Just a few

1) can't close games
2) not playing frank on kemba. even if he hates frank (not saying he does) you have to play frank given this past summer
3) not attacking kyrie (all game long and especially when he's in foul trouble)
4) spoiling a relationship with KP (last season with dumb rehab comments)
5) spoiling a relationship with Frank (last tank season giving frank a DNP when his mom attended the game)(p.s. at this point he's 3 for 3 with european players)
6) he's now had 5 or 6 pgs and all have played worse under him or failed to develop into even a starting role
7) double standards every where you look in terms of what he decides to hold accountable and not

And to be fair the FO deserves the boot too. For all the KP chatter about being injury prone, they traded for a guy who seems always injured, sulking, and complaining about his shot count -- ALL THINGS THEY WITNESSED IN DALLAS

All that cap space, plus KP as a trade chip, and we don't have a starting pg?

Fizzdale will take the fall but the problem is deeper

Chandler wrote:Lack of identity is one thing -- a big thing. But there are many many things that point to him being over his head. Just a few

1) can't close games
2) not playing frank on kemba. even if he hates frank (not saying he does) you have to play frank given this past summer
3) not attacking kyrie (all game long and especially when he's in foul trouble)
4) spoiling a relationship with KP (last season with dumb rehab comments)
5) spoiling a relationship with Frank (last tank season giving frank a DNP when his mom attended the game)(p.s. at this point he's 3 for 3 with european players)
6) he's now had 5 or 6 pgs and all have played worse under him or failed to develop into even a starting role
7) double standards every where you look in terms of what he decides to hold accountable and not

And to be fair the FO deserves the boot too. For all the KP chatter about being injury prone, they traded for a guy who seems always injured, sulking, and complaining about his shot count -- ALL THINGS THEY WITNESSED IN DALLAS

All that cap space, plus KP as a trade chip, and we don't have a starting pg?

Fizzdale will take the fall but the problem is deeper

Which is why nobody gave mills the time of day

Nalod wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Uptown wrote:Who says NY fans ain't patient Who said you can't rebuild in NY

I am patient but I won't tolerate double standards. Everyone should be treated the same way. Fizdale has not done this.

How does a fan quantify and measure that equality?

Great point but I guess everyone has their own metric as it is very unique in each individual.

However, I tend to look at what Fizdale has said and acted.

Claiming you want defense then starts a player struggling on defense and benching the players with the best defensive rating in the team to me is not equal.

Benching a player because he made a few mistakes, albeit very bad passess, but then having a longer leash to other players that keep making the same mistakes is not equal.

Putting players not in his agenda in a position of failure while giving others what he thinks will help them is not equal.

It is hard to quantify equality in anything but when you can look at the data available...is it really that hard to see?

franco12 wrote:

Uptown wrote:Who says NY fans ain't patient Who said you can't rebuild in NY

I'm patient.

But what happened to DSjr? I mean, we don't even have the DSjr from last year. Just come out and say he's hurt or something.

And Fiba Frank? Not even a hint of him. Deer in headlights Frank instead.

And here is the thing for me about Fizdale. After the SA game, clearly Payton is our best PG. Why did it take a game for Fizdale and the coaching staff to figure that out? I knew that from before, and I'm not watching practice.

I like Fizdale. I think he is articulate, but I'm starting to wonder about his approach here. Maybe he is too focused on his approach like Phil was with the triangle.

Maybe we need someone like a Hubie Brown who called every play, a Jeff Van Gundy where the offense is stupid simple to build a foundation of habits for these players.

And then, after they master stuff, start adding wrinkles, the read and reacts.

But right now I think maybe we need - you stand there, you pass the ball here, if he is open, pass it - otherwise, you make your move.

You say your patient, then proceed to compare DSJ's game from all of last season (50 games @ nearly 30 mins plus) to DSJ of this season who has played 3 games and all of 26 mins? Word is there was a death in the family, is that a part of his early season slump? Adjusting to a new team in a crowded backcourt? How about we let it play out so we have a larger sample size.

Same with Frank. Maybe we are not seeing FIBA Frank because we are not playing FIBA comp? Also, Frank has only played a total of 3 mins...

Chandler wrote:Lack of identity is one thing -- a big thing. But there are many many things that point to him being over his head. Just a few

1) can't close games
2) not playing frank on kemba. even if he hates frank (not saying he does) you have to play frank given this past summer
3) not attacking kyrie (all game long and especially when he's in foul trouble)
4) spoiling a relationship with KP (last season with dumb rehab comments)
5) spoiling a relationship with Frank (last tank season giving frank a DNP when his mom attended the game)(p.s. at this point he's 3 for 3 with european players)
6) he's now had 5 or 6 pgs and all have played worse under him or failed to develop into even a starting role
7) double standards every where you look in terms of what he decides to hold accountable and not

And to be fair the FO deserves the boot too. For all the KP chatter about being injury prone, they traded for a guy who seems always injured, sulking, and complaining about his shot count -- ALL THINGS THEY WITNESSED IN DALLAS

All that cap space, plus KP as a trade chip, and we don't have a starting pg?

Fizzdale will take the fall but the problem is deeper

What isn't working is the concept of accountability.

With 9 new players, it should be expected [and we've witnessed] a degree of confusion, turnovers, and brain farts. *It should be expected*.

But the coaching rhetoric is that Fizdale is going to hold players "accountable" for this natural, expected, and inevitable petty, getting-to-know-you stuff. So what does Fizdale do? He benches Frankie in solitary confinement because in the first three minutes of floor time the good stuff got blown and the turnovers were magnified.

END OF ALL ACCOUNTABILITY. NOBODY else performing turnover fests three nights in a row has suffered any such consequence. Charitable in my estimation.

But even dwelling on the hypocrisy is pointless. Rather than accountability this early in the season - teach - learn - adjust (e.g. coach). For Fizdale to introduce some kind of draconian theory of sit on the bench and rot while I groom a player who doesn't belong on the floor is outrageous and absurd. NOBODY is getting better.

OK, that aside. What are the analytics telling us...

Oh, the team actually scores more points per game with Payton/Frankie/Ellington than it does with RJ or Trier *at the PG position!*

But, but, but... all the pundits tell us that we don't have a PG. That Payton and Frankie don't score. That the sky will fall if we play them.

Yet, the players on the floor actually score MORE when they're on the floor. That's information we should be taking advantage of.

But that would require a coach with a brain.

Fiz could be in over his head for all we know but last year was clearly a tank job and an evaluation of the roster. This season will reveal some things about Fiz as a coach, however, this is still a roster of several odd parts that don't fit and need time to gell. In today's NBA, if you do not have a really good pg and 3 point shooters, its going to be tough to keep up with the rest of the league. During the last 10 seconds of the Blazers/Mavs, I watched Terry Stotts call a clear out for pg, Lillard to go one on one score the game winner. If a coach doesn't have access to elite level talent, then he has to be a little more innovative, I get that. But in the end, its a players league. The best players win.

I dont have many complaints about the front office, but they did not do Fiz any favors. We should have turned the keys over to Frank and Dennis. I thought it was a bad idea to sign Peyton. If we felt we needed a pg upgrade, we should have signed someone who is undeniably better than both Frank and Dennis, and Peyton is not that. One of Morris and Randle would have been fine, not both IMO. Also, I get the idea of singing 1 year rentals as we are able to clear the decks in the summer, but it's not easy on a coach when you have some guys trying to "get theirs" as they know they are not a part of the long term future.

knicks1248 wrote:Don't blame FIZ, blame the person responsible for bringing him here and assembling a misfit roster with no official PG..

Fiz was totally TRASH last season and it had nothing to with tanking, he failed to establish anything,I mean nothing at all, more importantly, he absolutely did a horrendous job with his rotation, no identity, no roles, just YMCA BALL every single night..and chopping tres.

Now we enter another season playing at the local Y

That's not entirely true. Yes I agree we don't have a bigtime point guard or free agents but this team has talent. honestly we should be 2-1. I like Fizdale and still think he deserves time but he has been atrocious so far. No system AT ALL, terrible rotations, no accountability. Despite all that we still should of won the first two games which shows that we have talent enough to make this season fun at least.

I don't see any point in firing him now. But I expect that he will be fired by Feb/Mar so that we can get a look at anyone of interest on our staff plus get a head start on the competition. The front office should get fired too but that's a subject for another day.