Knicks · Frank is the key to bringing the knicks together (page 1)

I am going to be flamed for this but here goes. The problem with the Knicks is they have no identity. The Knicks clearly have no offensive star and as such are not a great offensive team. However though the numbers say otherwise the Knicks actually have the potential to be one of the top defenses in the NBA.

Mitch is a great defensive talent even if he does get into foul trouble.

RJ has actually played at a pretty high level defensively thus far. His on ball defense has been good and he actually has an idea off ball defensive rotations

Morris has also shown he plays defense at a pretty high level

Finally Payton while not the long term answer has shown he is a competent NBA PG and he also plays defense.

What's missing? Frank. Frank has shown he is a lockdown defender.

We saw it against Kyrie a few season ago when he had Irving one of the best offensive players in the NBA stumbling around like a drunken sailor:

We saw it against James Harden. Harden went 1 - 6 when Frank guarded him in that game:

More recently we were reminded of Frank's lockdown ability this year against Kemba in FIBA and Trae Young in that pre season game. I won't post any links because these games are fresh in our minds

To get that defensive beast on a consistent basis the Knicks have to simply unleash him defensively. If I am Fizdale, I point to those games and tell Frank this is what I want you to focus on - locking people down. Second, I simplify his offensive responsibilities by relieving him of PG duties and putting him at the two. I tell him all I want on offensive is for him to be aggressive. I tell him I don't care if he makes them I only care that he takes them.

This puts him in a position to succeed. He gets to do what he does best locking players down while at the same time he gets to develop his offensive without undue pressure

Thus a starting five of The following will have five good and in the case of frank and Mitch potentially great defensive players:
Payton PG
Frank SG
RJB SF
Morris PF
Mitch C
This lineup has the potential of being one of the best defensive units in the NBA

This is where the Knicks should start in order to develop an identity - A defensive identity.
They can then build from there by slowly expanding the offensive games of Frank and Mitch
This team is still not going to win a lot of games but this is a rebuild. This is what is called player development.

Best of all the Knicks will find themselves in the lottery again affording them the chance at another RJ type stud. A win win all around.

This is good thinking.
The problem is Randle...
Too big of a contract and too good to not start.
This pushing the dominoes down and Frank out of starting 5.
In fact he needs to earn the backup role first.
Then show that he is better that Payton.
Long road for Frank.

You could add Frank against Kemba this summer to your list

frank should at least have role as a defensive stopper

i would not play him at 3 or RJ at 3; you are negating much of their strengths. Frank is best guarding the ball; RJ is best playing against smaller 2s

Free Frank.

With Dennis out for a game or 2, now is the time to see if Frank has improved and can confidently contribute on offense. That's what it comes down to.

awe1028 wrote:I am going to be flamed for this but here goes. The problem with the Knicks is they have no identity. The Knicks clearly have no offensive star and as such are not a great offensive team. However though the numbers say otherwise the Knicks actually have the potential to be one of the top defenses in the NBA.

Mitch is a great defensive talent even if he does get into foul trouble.

RJ has actually played at a pretty high level defensively thus far. His on ball defense has been good and he actually has an idea off ball defensive rotations

Morris has also shown he plays defense at a pretty high level

Finally Payton while not the long term answer has shown he is a competent NBA PG and he also plays defense.

What's missing? Frank. Frank has shown he is a lockdown defender.

We saw it against Kyrie a few season ago when he had Irving one of the best offensive players in the NBA stumbling around like a drunken sailor:

We saw it against James Harden. Harden went 1 - 6 when Frank guarded him in that game:

More recently we were reminded of Frank's lockdown ability this year against Kemba in FIBA and Trae Young in that pre season game. I won't post any links because these games are fresh in our minds

To get that defensive beast on a consistent basis the Knicks have to simply unleash him defensively. If I am Fizdale, I point to those games and tell Frank this is what I want you to focus on - locking people down. Second, I simplify his offensive responsibilities by relieving him of PG duties and putting him at the two. I tell him all I want on offensive is for him to be aggressive. I tell him I don't care if he makes them I only care that he takes them.

This puts him in a position to succeed. He gets to do what he does best locking players down while at the same time he gets to develop his offensive without undue pressure

Thus a starting five of The following will have five good and in the case of frank and Mitch potentially great defensive players:
Payton PG
Frank SG
RJB SF
Morris PF
Mitch C
This lineup has the potential of being one of the best defensive units in the NBA

This is where the Knicks should start in order to develop an identity - A defensive identity.
They can then build from there by slowly expanding the offensive games of Frank and Mitch
This team is still not going to win a lot of games but this is a rebuild. This is what is called player development.

Best of all the Knicks will find themselves in the lottery again affording them the chance at another RJ type stud. A win win all around.

A few. things.

1-Show this thread to Fizdale

2- Ron Baker!!

3- THis makes too much sense. I think you should apply to be the head asst coach.

4 - Identity? Who needs that?

I love Frank but right now he has to be the backup PG. Payton won the job. He should keep it until Frank shows that he is better. Randle and his 20ppg is too valuable to not start. Right niw

arkrud wrote:This is good thinking.
The problem is Randle...
Too big of a contract and too good to not start.
This pushing the dominoes down and Frank out of starting 5.
In fact he needs to earn the backup role first.
Then show that he is better that Payton.
Long road for Frank.

Earn the backup role. Man if Frank is given an equal playing field he would be starting much less backing up.

NYKBocker wrote:I love Frank but right now he has to be the backup PG. Payton won the job. He should keep it until Frank shows that he is better. Randle and his 20ppg is too valuable to not start. Right now

Yeah I think the majority agree. Hell I wouldn't even mind if Frank only plays 10-15 minutes per game for defense purposes but he cant rot on the bench. I admit I have always been a fan of Frank BUT am very fair about what he can and cant do right now. He needs to be more aggressive on offense too. Needs to be consistent hitting his outside shot or going to the hoop. He looked great during the summer but I do think eh confidence is shaken under Fizdale since he knows he has the shortest leash out of anybody. I want both Smith and Frank to succeed here. if Smith comes back and all of a sudden explodes and wins the starting job while Frank excels as the backup..thats Perfectly fine by me.

What has Frank really done in the years, years he's been here that makes you think he's a remotely adequate PG? Let alone the superstar saviour he's purported to be? Zero PG skills, no handle no shooting. He's a defensive specialist only. I doubt that's he just killing it in practice and scrimmages and dumb evil Fizdale whom I'm not a huge fan of is keeping him back because he doesn't like his hair.

It may also be news to you guys that Popovich wouldn't play him 30 to 40 minutes a game if he was on the Spurs. He had plenty of time in past severaL years to show us he's not a liability and if he can show in practice he can be a difference maker I'm sure Fizdale would put him in to save his own job.

Fizdale should start Payton, play Frank 20 mins a game and sit Smith for the next ten days and see if his back heals. That will give Smith time to get his body and head right and it gives Frank a fair chance to show what he can do.

Opportunity is the key to success, there are time when injury can take that away and there are times when agenda gets in the way of opportunity. It seems to me injuries combined with agenda seems to be the reason Frank isn’t getting a chance. As far as practice/ scrimmages it doesn’t translate to real time. Besides when team is trying to prove KP trade they are forcing DSJ on everyone. DSJ is clearly not able to function at a high level. Whether due to injury or new mechanics and should not be playing similar to Frank last year.

This team requires a glue guy that emphasizes defense and allows other to thrive. Frank might be that guy to do this and bring the team together.

nykshaknbake wrote:What has Frank really done in the years, years he's been here that makes you think he's a remotely adequate PG? Let alone the superstar saviour he's purported to be? Zero PG skills, no handle no shooting. He's a defensive specialist only. I doubt that's he just killing it in practice and scrimmages and dumb evil Fizdale whom I'm not a huge fan of is keeping him back because he doesn't like his hair.

It may also be news to you guys that Popovich wouldn't play him 30 to 40 minutes a game if he was on the Spurs. He had plenty of time in past severaL years to show us he's not a liability and if he can show in practice he can be a difference maker I'm sure Fizdale would put him in to save his own job.

Frank has definitely struggled offensively. Which is why the point was to put him at the two and develop his offense slowly. The problem is that the Knicks have not taken the time to develop him properly. Clearly he can have an impact on games defensively. If he was struggling at the point they should have moved him to the two lessening his offensive responsibilities while still taking advantage of his defensive prowess. They then could have developed his offense from there. How does it make any sense that the Knicks in a rebuilding year spent all this time developing a player Mudiay they had no intention of keeping yet they kept jerking Frank around. The Knicks essentially wasted 3 years of Frank's development

The amount of minutes Frank would get with the Spurs is beside the point. Popovich would recognize the defense impact he has on games and develop him accordingly. Obviously, there is no way to know how what kind of player Frank would be if he was with the Spurs. However I know the Spurs would have done a lot better job developing his game than the Knicks have done.

Chandler wrote:
You could add Frank against Kemba this summer to your list

frank should at least have role as a defensive stopper

i would not play him at 3 or RJ at 3; you are negating much of their strengths. Frank is best guarding the ball; RJ is best playing against smaller 2s

I did reference Frank's play against Kemba at FIBA I just did not post any links since it was recent and fresh in our memories

In the scenario I posited Frank is playing the two not the three. Playing the two does not prevent him from guarding the ball. He could be the two on offensive while guarding the PG on defense if necessary. Payton is big enough to guard most twos.

As Far as RJ guarding the three I think he is big enough and certainly strong enough to guard most small forwards just as well as he guards the two

awe1028 wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:What has Frank really done in the years, years he's been here that makes you think he's a remotely adequate PG? Let alone the superstar saviour he's purported to be? Zero PG skills, no handle no shooting. He's a defensive specialist only. I doubt that's he just killing it in practice and scrimmages and dumb evil Fizdale whom I'm not a huge fan of is keeping him back because he doesn't like his hair.

It may also be news to you guys that Popovich wouldn't play him 30 to 40 minutes a game if he was on the Spurs. He had plenty of time in past severaL years to show us he's not a liability and if he can show in practice he can be a difference maker I'm sure Fizdale would put him in to save his own job.

Frank has definitely struggled offensively. Which is why the point was to put him at the two and develop his offense slowly. The problem is that the Knicks have not taken the time to develop him properly. Clearly he can have an impact on games defensively. If he was struggling at the point they should have moved him to the two lessening his offensive responsibilities while still taking advantage of his defensive prowess. They then could have developed his offense from there. How does it make any sense that the Knicks in a rebuilding year spent all this time developing a player Mudiay they had no intention of keeping yet they kept jerking Frank around. The Knicks essentially wasted 3 years of Frank's development

The amount of minutes Frank would get with the Spurs is beside the point. Popovich would recognize the defense impact he has on games and develop him accordingly. Obviously, there is no way to know how what kind of player Frank would be if he was with the Spurs. However I know the Spurs would have done a lot better job developing his game than the Knicks have done.

Here the problem with frank his offensive game is not good at the moment and it just not there. Frank just has to be average offensive player 10 points and 5 assist but he can't grab those numbers for whatever reason . The thing is now is he will have a chance tonight to show us what he is made off i have no expectation for him just don't get embarrassed and just be average on offense . PS i know frank is good defensive player but he needs to improve on offense.

houston20 wrote:

awe1028 wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:What has Frank really done in the years, years he's been here that makes you think he's a remotely adequate PG? Let alone the superstar saviour he's purported to be? Zero PG skills, no handle no shooting. He's a defensive specialist only. I doubt that's he just killing it in practice and scrimmages and dumb evil Fizdale whom I'm not a huge fan of is keeping him back because he doesn't like his hair.

It may also be news to you guys that Popovich wouldn't play him 30 to 40 minutes a game if he was on the Spurs. He had plenty of time in past severaL years to show us he's not a liability and if he can show in practice he can be a difference maker I'm sure Fizdale would put him in to save his own job.

Frank has definitely struggled offensively. Which is why the point was to put him at the two and develop his offense slowly. The problem is that the Knicks have not taken the time to develop him properly. Clearly he can have an impact on games defensively. If he was struggling at the point they should have moved him to the two lessening his offensive responsibilities while still taking advantage of his defensive prowess. They then could have developed his offense from there. How does it make any sense that the Knicks in a rebuilding year spent all this time developing a player Mudiay they had no intention of keeping yet they kept jerking Frank around. The Knicks essentially wasted 3 years of Frank's development

The amount of minutes Frank would get with the Spurs is beside the point. Popovich would recognize the defense impact he has on games and develop him accordingly. Obviously, there is no way to know how what kind of player Frank would be if he was with the Spurs. However I know the Spurs would have done a lot better job developing his game than the Knicks have done.

Here the problem with frank his offensive game is not good at the moment and it just not there. Frank just has to be average offensive player 10 points and 5 assist but he can't grab those numbers for whatever reason . The thing is now is he will have a chance tonight to show us what he is made off i have no expectation for him just don't get embarrassed and just be average on offense . PS i know frank is good defensive player but he needs to improve on offense.

Nobody is questioning that. I think we are all in agreement that he needs to make progress wth his offensive game. But at the same time when you barely get time or anytime at all its tough to do that. Even in the first game where he struggled he showed some decent thing things in the 2 minutes he played. he made nice move to the hoop that should of been a goaltend and a couple good passes that Gibson couldn't finish. then he ade a couple bad mistakes and he really hasn't played since. So I think its a mixture of both

awe1028 wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:What has Frank really done in the years, years he's been here that makes you think he's a remotely adequate PG? Let alone the superstar saviour he's purported to be? Zero PG skills, no handle no shooting. He's a defensive specialist only. I doubt that's he just killing it in practice and scrimmages and dumb evil Fizdale whom I'm not a huge fan of is keeping him back because he doesn't like his hair.

It may also be news to you guys that Popovich wouldn't play him 30 to 40 minutes a game if he was on the Spurs. He had plenty of time in past severaL years to show us he's not a liability and if he can show in practice he can be a difference maker I'm sure Fizdale would put him in to save his own job.

Frank has definitely struggled offensively. Which is why the point was to put him at the two and develop his offense slowly. The problem is that the Knicks have not taken the time to develop him properly. Clearly he can have an impact on games defensively. If he was struggling at the point they should have moved him to the two lessening his offensive responsibilities while still taking advantage of his defensive prowess. They then could have developed his offense from there. How does it make any sense that the Knicks in a rebuilding year spent all this time developing a player Mudiay they had no intention of keeping yet they kept jerking Frank around. The Knicks essentially wasted 3 years of Frank's development

The amount of minutes Frank would get with the Spurs is beside the point. Popovich would recognize the defense impact he has on games and develop him accordingly. Obviously, there is no way to know how what kind of player Frank would be if he was with the Spurs. However I know the Spurs would have done a lot better job developing his game than the Knicks have done.

So you're going to start him at shooting guard and develop his offense slowly. In the NBA. In real games. With a coach who's just rolling out the balls and saying heave ho boys! Okay. That is a really interesting concept.

Maybe Fiz can start DSJr at the 5 and bring his defense along slowly.

bring back Alexey Shved - he will save us

jrodmc wrote:

awe1028 wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:What has Frank really done in the years, years he's been here that makes you think he's a remotely adequate PG? Let alone the superstar saviour he's purported to be? Zero PG skills, no handle no shooting. He's a defensive specialist only. I doubt that's he just killing it in practice and scrimmages and dumb evil Fizdale whom I'm not a huge fan of is keeping him back because he doesn't like his hair.

It may also be news to you guys that Popovich wouldn't play him 30 to 40 minutes a game if he was on the Spurs. He had plenty of time in past severaL years to show us he's not a liability and if he can show in practice he can be a difference maker I'm sure Fizdale would put him in to save his own job.

Frank has definitely struggled offensively. Which is why the point was to put him at the two and develop his offense slowly. The problem is that the Knicks have not taken the time to develop him properly. Clearly he can have an impact on games defensively. If he was struggling at the point they should have moved him to the two lessening his offensive responsibilities while still taking advantage of his defensive prowess. They then could have developed his offense from there. How does it make any sense that the Knicks in a rebuilding year spent all this time developing a player Mudiay they had no intention of keeping yet they kept jerking Frank around. The Knicks essentially wasted 3 years of Frank's development

The amount of minutes Frank would get with the Spurs is beside the point. Popovich would recognize the defense impact he has on games and develop him accordingly. Obviously, there is no way to know how what kind of player Frank would be if he was with the Spurs. However I know the Spurs would have done a lot better job developing his game than the Knicks have done.

So you're going to start him at shooting guard and develop his offense slowly. In the NBA. In real games. With a coach who's just rolling out the balls and saying heave ho boys! Okay. That is a really interesting concept.

Maybe Fiz can start DSJr at the 5 and bring his defense along slowly.

This post makes no sense. Frank struggling on offense does not preclude him playing the 2. He clearly has the physical attributes/defensive ability to play it.

You then make this comment about DSJ playing the five. This makes even less sense. Clearly, DSJ does not have physical stature to play the five

Maybe you are being sarcastic but given the post does not make sense your attempt at sarcasm if that was your intent does not play well here.

Finally Teams have developed players before why does this seem to be so impossible to you. If it is the word slowly that bothers you then remove it. The main point is that the Knicks wasted their time with a player like Mudiay who they had no intention of keeping while jerking Frank around.

awe1028 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

awe1028 wrote:

nykshaknbake wrote:What has Frank really done in the years, years he's been here that makes you think he's a remotely adequate PG? Let alone the superstar saviour he's purported to be? Zero PG skills, no handle no shooting. He's a defensive specialist only. I doubt that's he just killing it in practice and scrimmages and dumb evil Fizdale whom I'm not a huge fan of is keeping him back because he doesn't like his hair.

It may also be news to you guys that Popovich wouldn't play him 30 to 40 minutes a game if he was on the Spurs. He had plenty of time in past severaL years to show us he's not a liability and if he can show in practice he can be a difference maker I'm sure Fizdale would put him in to save his own job.

Frank has definitely struggled offensively. Which is why the point was to put him at the two and develop his offense slowly. The problem is that the Knicks have not taken the time to develop him properly. Clearly he can have an impact on games defensively. If he was struggling at the point they should have moved him to the two lessening his offensive responsibilities while still taking advantage of his defensive prowess. They then could have developed his offense from there. How does it make any sense that the Knicks in a rebuilding year spent all this time developing a player Mudiay they had no intention of keeping yet they kept jerking Frank around. The Knicks essentially wasted 3 years of Frank's development

The amount of minutes Frank would get with the Spurs is beside the point. Popovich would recognize the defense impact he has on games and develop him accordingly. Obviously, there is no way to know how what kind of player Frank would be if he was with the Spurs. However I know the Spurs would have done a lot better job developing his game than the Knicks have done.

So you're going to start him at shooting guard and develop his offense slowly. In the NBA. In real games. With a coach who's just rolling out the balls and saying heave ho boys! Okay. That is a really interesting concept.

Maybe Fiz can start DSJr at the 5 and bring his defense along slowly.

This post makes no sense. Frank struggling on offense does not preclude him playing the 2. He clearly has the physical attributes/defensive ability to play it.

You then make this comment about DSJ playing the five. This makes even less sense. Clearly, DSJ does not have physical stature to play the five

Maybe you are being sarcastic but given the post does not make sense your attempt at sarcasm if that was your intent does not play well here.

Finally Teams have developed players before why does this seem to be so impossible to you. If it is the word slowly that bothers you then remove it. The main point is that the Knicks wasted their time with a player like Mudiay who they had no intention of keeping while jerking Frank around.

Dont worry his posts never make any sense. He doesn't post much unless he is hunting for Melo "haters" lol

Frank is not a 2, IMO. He is a 1. Let him play there and learn that position.