Reeks of Dolan. Countless threads here of fans calling for evey ones heads.
Fire Fiz. Nope, fire Mills!!!!! No, it’s Perry’s fault! BRing in Mark Jax!!!!
THe shyt show was Dolan likely yelling and instructing. Dolan is in the hot seat. He has share holders, Board of directors an family as well as the court of public opinion. True, the team has no stars and it blew KP up. It is being patient by not making starphuch short term moves but its roster is flawed as hell.
what price will we not pay to put this fire out? What panic move gets made. Seems like we keep doing the right thing but the results dont work out. I’m not here to say keep MIlls and Fiz, but then even when we do the right thing the results are wrong usually because of timing. We fired Phil but it was the wrong time to do it. Seemingly because he wanted to trade KP. 12 coaches in 18 years. Dolan is now going to make a move again?
MIlls is the president and has to answer for this. I don’t have one for him.
I don’t know what’s worse, the losing or the lack of fortitude. Feels like Layden’s exit and a starphuch era to impart. Sugar buzz with empty calories.
If this comes true Portzingis was correct.
Losing Porzingis without getting a proven star was a mistake. DSJ is flawed and who knows what we get in the draft. If KP did not want to be here, then trade him but we should have gotten more when you think about what OKC got for George.
TheGame wrote:Losing Porzingis without getting a proven star was a mistake. DSJ is flawed and who knows what we get in the draft. If KP did not want to be here, then trade him but we should have gotten more when you think about what OKC got for George.
Really? ACL damaged months before long term max contract anemic diva does not get the same return as Paul George. Its not like Mills was lazy and got the least return. What ever our FO is, they are desperate to succeed! What you think they got and the reality of the market at that moment likely was not all one could have hoped. Knicks leverage was not that great and it was shrinking.
That Dolan fires Phil after his draft seemingly when KP was being shopped was the moment of regret. Hiring Phil was a good idea badly executed with bad results. equally as bad was firing him. In retrospect Rose did return but much later. Noah was a bad idea as Phil did not due enough back ground check, he had a still decent Melo. The goal was to be interesting then rebuild with Triangle yoot. We know what that was, and Phil had to go, but the timing was “Unfortunate”!
Dude if Dolan is intervening and he knows nothing about basketball even he can see that Fizdale sucks ass at coaching. For this Mills and Perry have to answer for. They screw it up again. Trying to draw free agents with Fizdale not because he knows how to coach but for all the wrong reasons. Well free agency didn’t go as planned now you’re stuck with a crappy coach and no end in sight. Make the damn move need and get a coach in here that know how to develop talent and get a plan of action here ASAP. You don’t have to waste a year to implement a plan.
Nalod wrote:TheGame wrote:Losing Porzingis without getting a proven star was a mistake. DSJ is flawed and who knows what we get in the draft. If KP did not want to be here, then trade him but we should have gotten more when you think about what OKC got for George.
Really? ACL damaged months before long term max contract anemic diva does not get the same return as Paul George. Its not like Mills was lazy and got the least return. What ever our FO is, they are desperate to succeed! What you think they got and the reality of the market at that moment likely was not all one could have hoped. Knicks leverage was not that great and it was shrinking.
That Dolan fires Phil after his draft seemingly when KP was being shopped was the moment of regret. Hiring Phil was a good idea badly executed with bad results. equally as bad was firing him. In retrospect Rose did return but much later. Noah was a bad idea as Phil did not due enough back ground check, he had a still decent Melo. The goal was to be interesting then rebuild with Triangle yoot. We know what that was, and Phil had to go, but the timing was “Unfortunate”!
ACL is no longer the gloom and doom injury of the past. Majority of the players recover.
Vmart wrote:Nalod wrote:TheGame wrote:Losing Porzingis without getting a proven star was a mistake. DSJ is flawed and who knows what we get in the draft. If KP did not want to be here, then trade him but we should have gotten more when you think about what OKC got for George.
Really? ACL damaged months before long term max contract anemic diva does not get the same return as Paul George. Its not like Mills was lazy and got the least return. What ever our FO is, they are desperate to succeed! What you think they got and the reality of the market at that moment likely was not all one could have hoped. Knicks leverage was not that great and it was shrinking.
That Dolan fires Phil after his draft seemingly when KP was being shopped was the moment of regret. Hiring Phil was a good idea badly executed with bad results. equally as bad was firing him. In retrospect Rose did return but much later. Noah was a bad idea as Phil did not due enough back ground check, he had a still decent Melo. The goal was to be interesting then rebuild with Triangle yoot. We know what that was, and Phil had to go, but the timing was “Unfortunate”!
ACL is no longer the gloom and doom injury of the past. Majority of the players recover.
George had a gruesome injury of his own
More Knicks spin.
Dude we need to hire people with experience that have proven track records and are not buddy buddy with owner. When we did that with walsh we started going in the right direction, we started making the playoffs, we started getting respected.
Dolan hates being embarrass more than anything, whether it be a FAN, a sexual harassment case, public feuds on twitter with players and F/O, or blowout losses at home to teams you should beat, once that sht starts happening your done.
The hard part is fixing this, not assigning blame or change for the sake of it. Dolan usually does his worst when Nets are relevant and he panics.
The easy part is saying who we should have hired. Would things have really been better? No real answer, but I get it sure could not have been much worse.
The question is what to do now without handicapping the future. Quenching bloodthirst and finger pointing don’t win games.
Is this season lost or what is its purpose?
Vmart wrote:Dude if Dolan is intervening and he knows nothing about basketball even he can see that Fizdale sucks ass at coaching. For this Mills and Perry have to answer for. They screw it up again. Trying to draw free agents with Fizdale not because he knows how to coach but for all the wrong reasons. Well free agency didn’t go as planned now you’re stuck with a crappy coach and no end in sight. Make the damn move need and get a coach in here that know how to develop talent and get a plan of action here ASAP. You don’t have to waste a year to implement a plan.
Spot on. The Dolan haters come out in full force the second there's an organizational hick-up. NOBODY here knows what Dolan said or how he said it. To make him out to be a mad man is the stuff of MSM clickbait.
Dolan is smart enough to sense that the crowd in the building is smarter than Fizdale. rather than intervene personally and pull that plug, he's letting the organization exercise due process. Its the right thing to do.
Vmart wrote:Nalod wrote:TheGame wrote:Losing Porzingis without getting a proven star was a mistake. DSJ is flawed and who knows what we get in the draft. If KP did not want to be here, then trade him but we should have gotten more when you think about what OKC got for George.
Really? ACL damaged months before long term max contract anemic diva does not get the same return as Paul George. Its not like Mills was lazy and got the least return. What ever our FO is, they are desperate to succeed! What you think they got and the reality of the market at that moment likely was not all one could have hoped. Knicks leverage was not that great and it was shrinking.
That Dolan fires Phil after his draft seemingly when KP was being shopped was the moment of regret. Hiring Phil was a good idea badly executed with bad results. equally as bad was firing him. In retrospect Rose did return but much later. Noah was a bad idea as Phil did not due enough back ground check, he had a still decent Melo. The goal was to be interesting then rebuild with Triangle yoot. We know what that was, and Phil had to go, but the timing was “Unfortunate”!
ACL is no longer the gloom and doom injury of the past. Majority of the players recover.
Porky's ACL was a secondary concern. Porky was a headcase and the organization was being approached by at least one woman who claimed he was a criminal as well.
We ALL know how well scandal plays in NY - Porky did himself in - no politics involved.
We've had some bad luck from injuries to players who are supposed to be running the offense. We have a coach who seems allergic to screens, P&R. Mostly tolerates the team passing the ball on the perimeter until someone decides to ISO. This looks more like a Carmelo Anthony offense. When players are hitting their ISO shots, we're competitive. When we dont, nothing to fall back on.
Who knowz if Mills was forced to address the media, or it was a case of CYA? Motivation aside, I liked that mgmt wasnt hiding somewhere, while this was playing out. Still, I agree with the theory that Mills is setting Fizdale up to be the fall guy. If the presser was Mills idea, he is probably feeling the hot seat himself. Admitted that he talks to Dolan on the phone during games. Probably got an earful. I get the feeling that unless things change dramatically, that this will be Mills last season as Knicks president. Guessing Dolan has finally had it.
If that is the case, I hope Perry isnt fired. He had nothing to do with KP souring on the Knicks.
Had nothing to do with Hardaway and Baker getting those deals before he got the job. Has done a good job finding talent, diamonds in the rough.
The plan to keep cap flexibility while developing recent draft picks was a good one. Unfortunately injuries have had an impact on the offense, and Fizdale hasnt done a good job of making the most of the squad he has.
A new team president might want to clean house. If we are talking about one of the top execs in the NBA, someone the rest of the league doesnt believe we managed to hire. So be it. Otherwise, would like to see Perry, and the scouting staff stay on for another season, and Mills sent packing. Dont want to see any more people take the fall for him.
TheGame wrote:Losing Porzingis without getting a proven star was a mistake. DSJ is flawed and who knows what we get in the draft. If KP did not want to be here, then trade him but we should have gotten more when you think about what OKC got for George.
Buying lottery tickets and not winning sht is a mistake... 
But seriously it was nothing out there to get for injured unproven young player with character issues and big ego.
Vmart wrote:Dude if Dolan is intervening and he knows nothing about basketball even he can see that Fizdale sucks ass at coaching. For this Mills and Perry have to answer for. They screw it up again. Trying to draw free agents with Fizdale not because he knows how to coach but for all the wrong reasons. Well free agency didn’t go as planned now you’re stuck with a crappy coach and no end in sight. Make the damn move need and get a coach in here that know how to develop talent and get a plan of action here ASAP. You don’t have to waste a year to implement a plan.
Who is the coach you are talking about? Who is available and willing to take on the team which will not win anything at least next 4 seasons and fired coach after coach as scapegoat over and over again.
Do you know this kamikaze?
Vmart wrote:Dude if Dolan is intervening and he knows nothing about basketball even he can see that Fizdale sucks ass at coaching. For this Mills and Perry have to answer for. They screw it up again. Trying to draw free agents with Fizdale not because he knows how to coach but for all the wrong reasons. Well free agency didn’t go as planned now you’re stuck with a crappy coach and no end in sight. Make the damn move need and get a coach in here that know how to develop talent and get a plan of action here ASAP. You don’t have to waste a year to implement a plan.
So you want to reset and start over now... hmmm.. And wait another 5 years FROM NOW to watch winning team.
Ok. Good plan. Refreshing.
fwk00 wrote:Vmart wrote:Nalod wrote:TheGame wrote:Losing Porzingis without getting a proven star was a mistake. DSJ is flawed and who knows what we get in the draft. If KP did not want to be here, then trade him but we should have gotten more when you think about what OKC got for George.
Really? ACL damaged months before long term max contract anemic diva does not get the same return as Paul George. Its not like Mills was lazy and got the least return. What ever our FO is, they are desperate to succeed! What you think they got and the reality of the market at that moment likely was not all one could have hoped. Knicks leverage was not that great and it was shrinking.
That Dolan fires Phil after his draft seemingly when KP was being shopped was the moment of regret. Hiring Phil was a good idea badly executed with bad results. equally as bad was firing him. In retrospect Rose did return but much later. Noah was a bad idea as Phil did not due enough back ground check, he had a still decent Melo. The goal was to be interesting then rebuild with Triangle yoot. We know what that was, and Phil had to go, but the timing was “Unfortunate”!
ACL is no longer the gloom and doom injury of the past. Majority of the players recover.
Porky's ACL was a secondary concern. Porky was a headcase and the organization was being approached by at least one woman who claimed he was a criminal as well.
We ALL know how well scandal plays in NY - Porky did himself in - no politics involved.
We won’t know the details of that but there may also be evidence of a women who was engaging in extortion.
Vmart wrote:Nalod wrote:TheGame wrote:Losing Porzingis without getting a proven star was a mistake. DSJ is flawed and who knows what we get in the draft. If KP did not want to be here, then trade him but we should have gotten more when you think about what OKC got for George.
Really? ACL damaged months before long term max contract anemic diva does not get the same return as Paul George. Its not like Mills was lazy and got the least return. What ever our FO is, they are desperate to succeed! What you think they got and the reality of the market at that moment likely was not all one could have hoped. Knicks leverage was not that great and it was shrinking.
That Dolan fires Phil after his draft seemingly when KP was being shopped was the moment of regret. Hiring Phil was a good idea badly executed with bad results. equally as bad was firing him. In retrospect Rose did return but much later. Noah was a bad idea as Phil did not due enough back ground check, he had a still decent Melo. The goal was to be interesting then rebuild with Triangle yoot. We know what that was, and Phil had to go, but the timing was “Unfortunate”!
ACL is no longer the gloom and doom injury of the past. Majority of the players recover.
check back in with us when KP has a full season of strength and without major injury.
we'll be back in 2022
small sample size:
Let me be perfectly clear, my issues are "Knicks" and not the mircoblame and elation of "Told you so". My focus is the pricess by which decisions get made and the net results.
Im not surprised by the bad start. 2 games perhaps and we don't get this storm.
I see a team trying to execute a system. The flat blowouts of three games and they are at home is a concern but if Dolan is freaking out like some Rainman then Im not confident. Does Fiz really deserve to be fired 10 games in? Internally is there a problem? Its one thing to not get along with your star player and create a division. If that is the case and he has a personality issue then OK. I get that. Last year was so problematic and the roster changes so massive he or anyone gets a first year pass. 2-8 on a team that was .500 last year with off season improvements would be very concerning. 9 new faces and a big problem in the back court is not a reason to start rolling heads.
Tell me whats up and with this team. I know what I see is not right but I don't know the back story. If DSjr is damaged goods Dolan must be furious. We would all be!!! Payton damaged goods also? Two games in and he is done?
Did Dolan get shyt from the League about signing Morris? I read knicks were pissed at SAS for perceived tampering on KP. That makes it right? Not my morality to judge either way, but did FO not act appropriate? Was Dolan sold on his starphuch off season and given the fact it did not happen, team looks bad in media, and we off to a shyt show start!
Ujiri has two years left in his current contract. The guy is a proven commodity and Dolan should pay him Phil money. Knicks most valuable franchise so why now. Do I want to give a high Draft pick for him? Hell no. Would he be worth
it? not if the pick is top 15.
Any owner would not be happy with this current state let alone the fans. But even when Dolan is right, he does the wrong thing.
I suppose Im suppose to offer a suggestion? I don't have the facts behind the symptoms. Thus my emotions are not a valid reason to start making changes.
martin wrote:Vmart wrote:Nalod wrote:TheGame wrote:Losing Porzingis without getting a proven star was a mistake. DSJ is flawed and who knows what we get in the draft. If KP did not want to be here, then trade him but we should have gotten more when you think about what OKC got for George.
Really? ACL damaged months before long term max contract anemic diva does not get the same return as Paul George. Its not like Mills was lazy and got the least return. What ever our FO is, they are desperate to succeed! What you think they got and the reality of the market at that moment likely was not all one could have hoped. Knicks leverage was not that great and it was shrinking.
That Dolan fires Phil after his draft seemingly when KP was being shopped was the moment of regret. Hiring Phil was a good idea badly executed with bad results. equally as bad was firing him. In retrospect Rose did return but much later. Noah was a bad idea as Phil did not due enough back ground check, he had a still decent Melo. The goal was to be interesting then rebuild with Triangle yoot. We know what that was, and Phil had to go, but the timing was “Unfortunate”!
ACL is no longer the gloom and doom injury of the past. Majority of the players recover.
check back in with us when KP has a full season of strength and without major injury.
we'll be back in 2022
small sample size:
It takes time to adjust and also get the rust off. He hasn’t played in 18-20 months. But they should have returned another good player in return with Smith.
Vmart wrote:martin wrote:Vmart wrote:Nalod wrote:TheGame wrote:Losing Porzingis without getting a proven star was a mistake. DSJ is flawed and who knows what we get in the draft. If KP did not want to be here, then trade him but we should have gotten more when you think about what OKC got for George.
Really? ACL damaged months before long term max contract anemic diva does not get the same return as Paul George. Its not like Mills was lazy and got the least return. What ever our FO is, they are desperate to succeed! What you think they got and the reality of the market at that moment likely was not all one could have hoped. Knicks leverage was not that great and it was shrinking.
That Dolan fires Phil after his draft seemingly when KP was being shopped was the moment of regret. Hiring Phil was a good idea badly executed with bad results. equally as bad was firing him. In retrospect Rose did return but much later. Noah was a bad idea as Phil did not due enough back ground check, he had a still decent Melo. The goal was to be interesting then rebuild with Triangle yoot. We know what that was, and Phil had to go, but the timing was “Unfortunate”!
ACL is no longer the gloom and doom injury of the past. Majority of the players recover.
check back in with us when KP has a full season of strength and without major injury.
we'll be back in 2022
small sample size:
It takes time to adjust and also get the rust off. He hasn’t played in 18-20 months. But they should have returned another good player in return with Smith.
Not sure you fully understand my position but when I say "Regrettable" and "Unfortunate" regarding the events that lead to his trade its not that I don't think he is talented. I loved the kid.
But if you ask me why his trade value was low in hindsight I will only try explain. If you don't agree with it that's on you. But if you think Knicks did not extract what they could then your just in a hate frenzy that is not based on logic. Its based on emotion.
arkrud wrote:Vmart wrote:Dude if Dolan is intervening and he knows nothing about basketball even he can see that Fizdale sucks ass at coaching. For this Mills and Perry have to answer for. They screw it up again. Trying to draw free agents with Fizdale not because he knows how to coach but for all the wrong reasons. Well free agency didn’t go as planned now you’re stuck with a crappy coach and no end in sight. Make the damn move need and get a coach in here that know how to develop talent and get a plan of action here ASAP. You don’t have to waste a year to implement a plan.
So you want to reset and start over now... hmmm.. And wait another 5 years FROM NOW to watch winning team.
Ok. Good plan. Refreshing.
Why we have nothing concrete, 100 % of the roster can be traded in the blink of an eye, we have picks, a few assets, We have more flexibility than any team in the league...
Why on earth do you think it takes 5 yrs to build a contender.
All you need to do is acquire players that fit your coaches system, balance the roster with vets and some key young pieces.
If those young piece don't fit, move on..
it's been 4 yrs with mills, and you think were 1 yrs away?
arkrud wrote:Vmart wrote:Dude if Dolan is intervening and he knows nothing about basketball even he can see that Fizdale sucks ass at coaching. For this Mills and Perry have to answer for. They screw it up again. Trying to draw free agents with Fizdale not because he knows how to coach but for all the wrong reasons. Well free agency didn’t go as planned now you’re stuck with a crappy coach and no end in sight. Make the damn move need and get a coach in here that know how to develop talent and get a plan of action here ASAP. You don’t have to waste a year to implement a plan.
So you want to reset and start over now... hmmm.. And wait another 5 years FROM NOW to watch winning team.
Ok. Good plan. Refreshing.
It took walsh a 1 yr half to turn this around, got rid of all of I T super bad contracts, drafted Danilo, Chandler, shumpert
