Knicks · 11-18-19 Game thread: The Mavs are back!!!... I mean the Cavs.... but lets boo Sexton!!! (page 6)

We played hard...would have been a much bigger margin if the Cavs hit their 3s at a normal rate.

I still have major issues with how our offense plays. 44 baskets on 17 assists. Many 1/1 efforts lead to such a basket to assist imbalance.

Our screens/picks are lame compared to how I see other teams freeing their guards and creating scoring opportunities.

We seem to have a "it's my turn now" philosophy on offense, with limited movement. Doesn't mean that we don't get good results at times, but, in the long run, this kind of "system" won't work against the better defensive teams, in my opinion.

NYKBocker wrote:Frank played well again. His PnR play was awesome. Maybe Fizdale will start calling it more

Unfortunately his shooting has fallen off a cliff again though.

Knixkik wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Frank played well again. His PnR play was awesome. Maybe Fizdale will start calling it more

Unfortunately his shooting has fallen off a cliff again though.

Has it? I think we are expecting him to be a knockdown shooter. He is taking them and that is good. He will get better at it and it will open up his drive game.

Good win. Better effort, teamwork, lately. Makes the games a lot more watchable. Hope Randle remembers this game, and what worked. Gibson is a good mentor for the kids, good signing.

Did not expect Frank to push the tempo more than DSjr. But thats what happened last night.Still off with his shot, but they're rimming out for the most part. Needs a softer touch, less velocity IMO. Taking shots he used to pass up.

Smith jr. was "too cool for school" last night. Was mostly content bringing the ball up slowly, half court offense. Last couple of games he's been able to get to the rim, with his dribble at half speed (which is impressive) but he doesnt do that often. Suppose it beats Dennis being a ball hog.

Smith jr kind of reminds me of Roy Jones jr. Off the charts athleticism, but he would only give fans brief glimpses of what he could do with his handspeed, footwork. DSJr should pay more attention to what the up and coming PGs out there are doing. They play a high octane offense. Smith doesnt show that part of his game enough. Maybe its conditioning. If this is an issue after the all star break, its going to make it hard to consider Smith jr as the PG of the future. If Frank isnt ready to be named the starting PG going forward, neither is DSJr. Need more offense from both of them.

GustavBahler wrote:Good win. Better effort, teamwork, lately. Makes the games a lot more watchable. Hope Randle remembers this game, and what worked. Gibson is a good mentor for the kids, good signing.

Did not expect Frank to push the tempo more than DSjr. But thats what happened last night.Still off with his shot, but they're rimming out for the most part. Needs a softer touch, less velocity IMO. Taking shots he used to pass up.

Smith jr. was "too cool for school" last night. Was mostly content bringing the ball up slowly, half court offense. Last couple of games he's been able to get to the rim, with his dribble at half speed (which is impressive) but he doesnt do that often. Suppose it beats Dennis being a ball hog.

Smith jr kind of reminds me of Roy Jones jr. Off the charts athleticism, but he would only give fans brief glimpses of what he could do with his handspeed, footwork. DSJr should pay more attention to what the up and coming PGs out there are doing. They play a high octane offense. Smith doesnt show that part of his game enough. Maybe its conditioning. If this is an issue after the all star break, its going to make it hard to consider Smith jr as the PG of the future. If Frank isnt ready to be named the starting PG going forward, neither is DSJr. Need more offense from both of them.

gustav he did in dallas. i think it's either injury or coaching or both.

NYKBocker wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Frank played well again. His PnR play was awesome. Maybe Fizdale will start calling it more

Unfortunately his shooting has fallen off a cliff again though.

Has it? I think we are expecting him to be a knockdown shooter. He is taking them and that is good. He will get better at it and it will open up his drive game.

His shooting is now down to 36% overall and 32% from 3. Year over year he simply hasn’t improved. At least it’s not showing in the stats yet. A couple weeks ago he had climbed to about 38% for each, which is real progress. I know he’s an elite defender and seems to be a winning player, so we can give him some slack there, but he needs to be around 38% plus overall and 35% plus for 3 in order for his defense to not be completely cancelled out by bad offense. It’s not a huge jump from where he is now but we have to see it.

Knixkik wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Frank played well again. His PnR play was awesome. Maybe Fizdale will start calling it more

Unfortunately his shooting has fallen off a cliff again though.

Has it? I think we are expecting him to be a knockdown shooter. He is taking them and that is good. He will get better at it and it will open up his drive game.

His shooting is now down to 36% overall and 32% from 3. Year over year he simply hasn’t improved. At least it’s not showing in the stats yet. A couple weeks ago he had climbed to about 38% for each, which is real progress. I know he’s an elite defender and seems to be a winning player, so we can give him some slack there, but he needs to be around 38% plus overall and 35% plus for 3 in order for his defense to not be completely cancelled out by bad offense. It’s not a huge jump from where he is now but we have to see it.

I totally agree. However, I need to see a higher sample size since he hasn't really taken a lot of shots in the NBA. I was looking at his stats in europe. In 4 years he was shooting 43.7% for total FG and 38.5% from 3. Those numbers also trended up. His first 2 years were horrible and then in his 3rd and 4th year he brought those numbers up when he was given more minutes and opportunities.

Now that he is being given more minutes and opportunities, I expect his numbers to go up. Shooting is all about confidence and opportunities. Lacking in any of them would mess up a player big time.

Marv wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Good win. Better effort, teamwork, lately. Makes the games a lot more watchable. Hope Randle remembers this game, and what worked. Gibson is a good mentor for the kids, good signing.

Did not expect Frank to push the tempo more than DSjr. But thats what happened last night.Still off with his shot, but they're rimming out for the most part. Needs a softer touch, less velocity IMO. Taking shots he used to pass up.

Smith jr. was "too cool for school" last night. Was mostly content bringing the ball up slowly, half court offense. Last couple of games he's been able to get to the rim, with his dribble at half speed (which is impressive) but he doesnt do that often. Suppose it beats Dennis being a ball hog.

Smith jr kind of reminds me of Roy Jones jr. Off the charts athleticism, but he would only give fans brief glimpses of what he could do with his handspeed, footwork. DSJr should pay more attention to what the up and coming PGs out there are doing. They play a high octane offense. Smith doesnt show that part of his game enough. Maybe its conditioning. If this is an issue after the all star break, its going to make it hard to consider Smith jr as the PG of the future. If Frank isnt ready to be named the starting PG going forward, neither is DSJr. Need more offense from both of them.

gustav he did in dallas. i think it's either injury or coaching or both.

I think he is still trying to adjust to playing 15-18 mins per night. Trying to be a ball mover and initiate the offense and still find room to break off the play and attack the rim....it's going to take time.

Marv wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Good win. Better effort, teamwork, lately. Makes the games a lot more watchable. Hope Randle remembers this game, and what worked. Gibson is a good mentor for the kids, good signing.

Did not expect Frank to push the tempo more than DSjr. But thats what happened last night.Still off with his shot, but they're rimming out for the most part. Needs a softer touch, less velocity IMO. Taking shots he used to pass up.

Smith jr. was "too cool for school" last night. Was mostly content bringing the ball up slowly, half court offense. Last couple of games he's been able to get to the rim, with his dribble at half speed (which is impressive) but he doesnt do that often. Suppose it beats Dennis being a ball hog.

Smith jr kind of reminds me of Roy Jones jr. Off the charts athleticism, but he would only give fans brief glimpses of what he could do with his handspeed, footwork. DSJr should pay more attention to what the up and coming PGs out there are doing. They play a high octane offense. Smith doesnt show that part of his game enough. Maybe its conditioning. If this is an issue after the all star break, its going to make it hard to consider Smith jr as the PG of the future. If Frank isnt ready to be named the starting PG going forward, neither is DSJr. Need more offense from both of them.

gustav he did in dallas. i think it's either injury or coaching or both.

He did it in college too. Disinterested, low energy except for a burst here and there.

Could be injury, could be his personality, could be he is literally trying to think things thru cause he has no real clue how to be a PG. Hopefully he can connect the dots at some point.

His D is as awful as Knox's

Uptown wrote:

Marv wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Good win. Better effort, teamwork, lately. Makes the games a lot more watchable. Hope Randle remembers this game, and what worked. Gibson is a good mentor for the kids, good signing.

Did not expect Frank to push the tempo more than DSjr. But thats what happened last night.Still off with his shot, but they're rimming out for the most part. Needs a softer touch, less velocity IMO. Taking shots he used to pass up.

Smith jr. was "too cool for school" last night. Was mostly content bringing the ball up slowly, half court offense. Last couple of games he's been able to get to the rim, with his dribble at half speed (which is impressive) but he doesnt do that often. Suppose it beats Dennis being a ball hog.

Smith jr kind of reminds me of Roy Jones jr. Off the charts athleticism, but he would only give fans brief glimpses of what he could do with his handspeed, footwork. DSJr should pay more attention to what the up and coming PGs out there are doing. They play a high octane offense. Smith doesnt show that part of his game enough. Maybe its conditioning. If this is an issue after the all star break, its going to make it hard to consider Smith jr as the PG of the future. If Frank isnt ready to be named the starting PG going forward, neither is DSJr. Need more offense from both of them.

gustav he did in dallas. i think it's either injury or coaching or both.

I think he is still trying to adjust to playing 15-18 mins per night. Trying to be a ball mover and initiate the offense and still find room to break off the play and attack the rim....it's going to take time.

Totally get that there are peripheral issues like health, off the court. Ive been as big a booster of Smith jr as anyone, continue to be. Ive gotten on Frank's case (so to speak) about playing with a sense of urgency. Like to see more from DSJr as well. Actually Frank is playing with more right now.

Didnt see someone laboring on the court, saw a player playing a gear or two, too slow. Agree that he needs time to sort it out. If this is still an issue after the all star break, then thats something to be concerned about.

martin wrote:

Marv wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Good win. Better effort, teamwork, lately. Makes the games a lot more watchable. Hope Randle remembers this game, and what worked. Gibson is a good mentor for the kids, good signing.

Did not expect Frank to push the tempo more than DSjr. But thats what happened last night.Still off with his shot, but they're rimming out for the most part. Needs a softer touch, less velocity IMO. Taking shots he used to pass up.

Smith jr. was "too cool for school" last night. Was mostly content bringing the ball up slowly, half court offense. Last couple of games he's been able to get to the rim, with his dribble at half speed (which is impressive) but he doesnt do that often. Suppose it beats Dennis being a ball hog.

Smith jr kind of reminds me of Roy Jones jr. Off the charts athleticism, but he would only give fans brief glimpses of what he could do with his handspeed, footwork. DSJr should pay more attention to what the up and coming PGs out there are doing. They play a high octane offense. Smith doesnt show that part of his game enough. Maybe its conditioning. If this is an issue after the all star break, its going to make it hard to consider Smith jr as the PG of the future. If Frank isnt ready to be named the starting PG going forward, neither is DSJr. Need more offense from both of them.

gustav he did in dallas. i think it's either injury or coaching or both.

He did it in college too. Disinterested, low energy except for a burst here and there.

Could be injury, could be his personality, could be he is literally trying to think things thru cause he has no real clue how to be a PG. Hopefully he can connect the dots at some point.

His D is as awful as Knox's

Agreed. We know he has the explosive offensive ability BUT its his defense that's gonna determine the amount of minutes he gets. His defense is really bad and he commits a lot of fouls. Still young and hopefully ca improve if the coaches that more onto him

GustavBahler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Marv wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Good win. Better effort, teamwork, lately. Makes the games a lot more watchable. Hope Randle remembers this game, and what worked. Gibson is a good mentor for the kids, good signing.

Did not expect Frank to push the tempo more than DSjr. But thats what happened last night.Still off with his shot, but they're rimming out for the most part. Needs a softer touch, less velocity IMO. Taking shots he used to pass up.

Smith jr. was "too cool for school" last night. Was mostly content bringing the ball up slowly, half court offense. Last couple of games he's been able to get to the rim, with his dribble at half speed (which is impressive) but he doesnt do that often. Suppose it beats Dennis being a ball hog.

Smith jr kind of reminds me of Roy Jones jr. Off the charts athleticism, but he would only give fans brief glimpses of what he could do with his handspeed, footwork. DSJr should pay more attention to what the up and coming PGs out there are doing. They play a high octane offense. Smith doesnt show that part of his game enough. Maybe its conditioning. If this is an issue after the all star break, its going to make it hard to consider Smith jr as the PG of the future. If Frank isnt ready to be named the starting PG going forward, neither is DSJr. Need more offense from both of them.

gustav he did in dallas. i think it's either injury or coaching or both.

I think he is still trying to adjust to playing 15-18 mins per night. Trying to be a ball mover and initiate the offense and still find room to break off the play and attack the rim....it's going to take time.

Totally get that there are peripheral issues like health, off the court. Ive been as big a booster of Smith jr as anyone, continue to be. Ive gotten on Frank's case (so to speak) about playing with a sense of urgency. Like to see more from DSJr as well. Actually Frank is playing with more right now.

Didnt see someone laboring on the court, saw a player playing a gear or two, too slow. Agree that he needs time to sort it out. If this is still an issue after the all star break, then thats something to be concerned about.

Yesterday, Smith did seem to be playing in 2nd gear...Didn't turn it on until the last 2 mins of the game where he scored 6 pts relatively easy. Frank did play at a faster pace than he ever has, and is taking a few more shots that he would have otherwise turned down. With that said, its a miss or make league and at some point Frank needs to make those.

It's still early, but it's starting to look like the future starting point guard for the Knicks aint on the roster yet. Right now, Frank and Dennis may be battling for a future back up spot and right now, Frank is leading the way and in a year or 2, I can see Dennis on his 3rd team.

Uptown wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Marv wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Good win. Better effort, teamwork, lately. Makes the games a lot more watchable. Hope Randle remembers this game, and what worked. Gibson is a good mentor for the kids, good signing.

Did not expect Frank to push the tempo more than DSjr. But thats what happened last night.Still off with his shot, but they're rimming out for the most part. Needs a softer touch, less velocity IMO. Taking shots he used to pass up.

Smith jr. was "too cool for school" last night. Was mostly content bringing the ball up slowly, half court offense. Last couple of games he's been able to get to the rim, with his dribble at half speed (which is impressive) but he doesnt do that often. Suppose it beats Dennis being a ball hog.

Smith jr kind of reminds me of Roy Jones jr. Off the charts athleticism, but he would only give fans brief glimpses of what he could do with his handspeed, footwork. DSJr should pay more attention to what the up and coming PGs out there are doing. They play a high octane offense. Smith doesnt show that part of his game enough. Maybe its conditioning. If this is an issue after the all star break, its going to make it hard to consider Smith jr as the PG of the future. If Frank isnt ready to be named the starting PG going forward, neither is DSJr. Need more offense from both of them.

gustav he did in dallas. i think it's either injury or coaching or both.

I think he is still trying to adjust to playing 15-18 mins per night. Trying to be a ball mover and initiate the offense and still find room to break off the play and attack the rim....it's going to take time.

Totally get that there are peripheral issues like health, off the court. Ive been as big a booster of Smith jr as anyone, continue to be. Ive gotten on Frank's case (so to speak) about playing with a sense of urgency. Like to see more from DSJr as well. Actually Frank is playing with more right now.

Didnt see someone laboring on the court, saw a player playing a gear or two, too slow. Agree that he needs time to sort it out. If this is still an issue after the all star break, then thats something to be concerned about.

Yesterday, Smith did seem to be playing in 2nd gear...Didn't turn it on until the last 2 mins of the game where he scored 6 pts relatively easy. Frank did play at a faster pace than he ever has, and is taking a few more shots that he would have otherwise turned down. With that said, its a miss or make league and at some point Frank needs to make those.

It's still early, but it's starting to look like the future starting point guard for the Knicks aint on the roster yet. Right now, Frank and Dennis may be battling for a future back up spot and right now, Frank is leading the way and in a year or 2, I can see Dennis on his 3rd team.

Question. Would you take Sexton or Garland over Frank?

2 takeaways for me:

1) Sexton and Garland were non factors for this game after pummeling the Knicks previously. Couldn't tell if it was the Knicks defense, adjustments, or just lack of fire from either of those guys.

2) The Knicks defensive rotations were noticeably better than any other game, guys are ALMOST in sync. But for the 3rd or 4th rotation out to 3-point shooters, the defense resembled something like a real NBA team. Granted this was the Cavs and without 2 of their better players.

oh, 3) Finally Randle shows up for the season. This is the player we expected.