Whats the point? We will still suck
I don't care if he is fired now or at the end of the year. But he should go. Any coach can win with great players, which is what Fizdale apparently thought he would get in year2. Still you gotta coach what you have. He hasn't shown anything with this group. I'll give him more games to make his case either way. But eventually we need more of a Pat Riley type and less of a happy go lucky smiley-face.
I wanted him fired before the season started so you know how ai feel about Fizdale’s coaching. I felt he wasted last year which he should have used to get Knox, Trier and Smith defense. Granted Smith came in late. He was hired for totally the wrong reasons. He isn’t a development coach matter of fact is much of anything coach. He should never been hired in the first place.
an "improved" Knox doesn't mean a good player, lol
And if the career player you are referring to is Randle, keep in mind of the players he was playing with as well. The game is different when teams aren't necessarily planning their defense around you.
but to the question, I voted no. I am really surprised at how high expectations were for this team. I am disappointed at our current record but only because I felt we lost some games in the fourth, that we could have won but that's on FO for not being able to bring in star players.
Swishfm3 wrote:an "improved" Knox doesn't mean a good player, lolAnd if the career player you are referring to is Randle, keep in mind of the players he was playing with as well. The game is different when teams aren't necessarily planning their defense around you.
but to the question, I voted no. I am really surprised at how high expectations were for this team. I am disappointed at our current record but only because I felt we lost some games in the fourth, that we could have won but that's on FO for not being able to bring in star players.
The point is that we have much better players this year than we did the past couple of years and we are on pace to win maybe 2/3 more games than last years record. It’s flat out unacceptable you me. I knew we were going to have a losing record but the talent level at the bare minimum should have us winning 29 games. This team was better than Horneceks team and he was fired for only winning 29.
I missed todays game but if the team is coming out flat at home against a lot of teams, that’s just as much on coaching as it is in the players and it’s also on the front office for putting this plan together. We now have zero choice but to build through the draft and pray we find our own Doncic. Frank and RJ together is a great start but neither of them are not THE centerpiece. We need someone we can build around. No coach will fix that.
Fiz will try to fire himself but I do not think current FO will give him this.
He knew that there was a chance he will stick around with real rebuild for whole duration of the contract.
So let him work for the money.
I think he is good in development players skills and mental toughness.
We will see who is a keeper and who should be used in trades or let go.
He is transition coach for the time being so why not him?
Jmpasq wrote:Whats the point? We will still suck
As if any other coach can do different. Players choose retirement over playing for Dolan. Good luck getting any decent coach to come to this team. And I mean ever.
Ideally, the coach is the figure that takes whatever talent he has and works around it to design a winning strategy on offense and defense. If the team is developing and not expected to win much with a cast of many young players, he still should do the same but with less expectations about winning but more in creating winning routines for the youth.
To me, that last part is where Fiz failed miserably last season. In a lost season, he played like a mad scientist instead of identifying core players and designing a system fitting them. So practically nothing from last season carried on to this one even if many of the young players were going to remain here.
Then this season happens. The Knicks didn’t do a bonanza on free agency, but did bring a potential franchise player in Barrett and solid young veterans in Randle and Morris. So obviously expectations are gonna increase, even slightly.
One thing is to struggle because of so many new pieces. To be fair, some of our struggles have been because of that. But then you try to analyze the game and you see the same patterns as last season: no telling offensive system that takes advantage of whatever talent you have, no consistent accountability system, players trying to work styles that are not theirs and failing consistently yet not changing much from game to game, and the same lame excuses that show a coach that either doesn’t get it of is too proud to admit being wrong.
If you are worried about the future, you make a decision. If you see a potential head coach in the staff, you make the move soon. Miller has been covered as a guy that had success with youth in our G League squad, so if you think he could be more than an emergency interim, make the move. It’s hard to believe a real solution, and not an empty hire for the headlines, is available out there. In such case, keep Fiz the rest of the season or fire him, whatever, as long as you start a real coaching search right now.
No the backlash isn't worth it. Fiz is popular with influential players around the league, who will just blast us in the press after we fire him (as happened when he got canned in Memphis). Keep him til the end of the season, then get rid of Mills and let whoever takes over decide his fate. Don't see why any good coach would want to come here at this point.
Let Mike Miller teach these Kids
Get Morris and Randle outta here too.
smackeddog wrote:No the backlash isn't worth it. Fiz is popular with influential players around the league, who will just blast us in the press after we fire him (as happened when he got canned in Memphis). Keep him til the end of the season, then get rid of Mills and let whoever takes over decide his fate. Don't see why any good coach would want to come here at this point.
Is that why he recruited ZERO players in 2 off seasons. Give me a break, lebron was a FA, the same guy that was front and center of the HOLLY support team for fiz, he jumped on a plane from Cleveland to LA.
Fizdale has proven to be totally worthless, just like the F/O. No development, No system, No idea how to utilize a rotation, Can't recruit.
What do you need to see another 10, 12, 18 game losing streak before it's justified? The dude has like a 19-80 record..HAVE A SEAT FIZ
Recruit? To at team that disposes head coaches? 12 in 18 years. That is one reason why players don’t come here.
Culture? Dolan Panics and change ensues. I wont advocate Fiz beyond this season, but until he loses the team I don’t think replacing him mid season helps us.
as a fan on the outside I don’t have enough information to assign blame.
richard jefferson said he decided to retire rather than accept Knicks money!! We're at rock bottom. Fear of further backlash is the least of our problems.
We need to start developing and/or winning to get respect. Not pay money to a coach who is doing neither
whatever development Frank, KK, and Mitch made this year was in the offseason. KK and Mitch in particular may be going backwards at the moment
I think we need to fire him to (a) get a coach who can develop and install some form of system, (b) let's a player emphasize his strengths (develop your weaknesses in practice), (c) assess Mill's or Perry's competency -- if a new a coach wins games with this squad it will help inform whether or not they were clueless putting this roster together
anrst wrote:Let Mike Miller teach these KidsGet Morris and Randle outta here too.
What makes you think a coach who only has several months of NBA coaching experience will do a better job with this roster than a coach who has 16 yrs of NBA experience? What has Miller done to give you so much confidence in him? BTW, Miller is a Knick coach so why is he exempt from criticism if you dont like the way the team is playing?
Yes. Fire him now. He hasn't shown any sign of being an NBA coach. Dude has no backbone. No offensive plan.
My issue with Fiz is that he has no system whatsoever. His "positionless" basketball is not a system abd just cause more chaos. he allows guys like Randle and Morris basically to have carte blanche. There is no accountability to keep he ball moving and allow the point guards to handle the ball. Im not saying Fizdale is the only problem but I really haven't gained any confidence of him being an effective head coach. Sure the players like him and play hard usually for him but that's only a small part of being a coach.
With all the horrible dumb play we’ve seen in games, have you ever seen Fiz call a player out during a game? Guys play selfish and sloppy and Fiz just makes concerned facial expressions directed at no one and nothing.
We need a coach who is in the game. This guy is a joke.
The same Fiz friends that would make for a backlash in defending him are the same enablers that endorsed him to be our coach. So for all the Fiz friends in the nba, lets see you install him as your own teams head coach.
I'd fire Fizdale because I just don't think he's done a good job of working with the talent we've had.
Maybe he himself as a coach needs to develop. I'd maybe sit down with him, and see about getting additional staff to institute a better offense.
I don't know. this franchise is such a cluster.
My big criticism is he's gone big vs small when our problem is ball movement.
I'm upset that he only seemed to fail forward with naming Payton the starting pg after the first game, and then only seemed to accept Frank after it was painfully evident that Barrett is not a PG.
I'm not crazy about the fact that he hasn't looked to work with Randle differently, and try to correct his turnovers by shifting his position/role in the offense.
So- what does keeping him around do? I like him personally- he seems like a nice guy that has a certain mindset that can be successful. That Pat Riley/Michael Jordan will to win mentality. But we also need a better system and a better judge of talent.
Fire him when you have a better option.
Rick Pitino?
smackeddog wrote:No the backlash isn't worth it. Fiz is popular with influential players around the league, who will just blast us in the press after we fire him (as happened when he got canned in Memphis). Keep him til the end of the season, then get rid of Mills and let whoever takes over decide his fate. Don't see why any good coach would want to come here at this point.
This seems to be the most compelling at this point. I definitely don't trust Mills to hire another head coach. I love the new mindset he and Perry have moving forward but he has proven time and time again to find a good coach that would be a good fit. Funny thing is that I think keeping Horny in the long run would have proven to be a much better move.
StarksEwing1 wrote:My issue with Fiz is that he has no system whatsoever. His "positionless" basketball is not a system abd just cause more chaos. he allows guys like Randle and Morris basically to have carte blanche. There is no accountability to keep he ball moving and allow the point guards to handle the ball. Im not saying Fizdale is the only problem but I really haven't gained any confidence of him being an effective head coach. Sure the players like him and play hard usually for him but that's only a small part of being a coach.
I dont think Fiz has been a good coach but what system do you run when 3 out of your 4 PGs have been hurt for a majority of the season, and we can all see that DJ is still not 100%. Where your starting C is a foul machine. Where you don't have a guy who can really break down an offense and get his own.
You keep spouting off about positionless and I have no idea what you mean. Fiz may talk about it but I feel it's more a distraction than anything, seems like the Knicks are running similar'ish sets as everyone else.
