Knicks · Let’s face it this squad sucks, as well as the coaching staff, let’s talk about the future (page 1)

Look we have some nice role players, and a potential star in Barrett 2 years down the road. There’s a plethora of great PG’s coming out of the draft. We have had 3 really bad years, this is what a rebuild looks like.

The only thing I can’t stand is the lack of hustle we need a proven winner as a coach. Someone who can teach these kids, I don’t care if we loose as long as we give 110% and know we left it all out on the floor... if you don’t you don’t play period.

We are getting out worked on a nightly basis last night when we went up in the first quarter, the raptors just out hustled us they actually gave a S HIt. That team is a well oiled machine, thanks to great coaching... they lost there best player were without there best player in lowery... just look at there bench a bunch of nobody’s. Yes they have a star in pascal, a washed up center in gasol, and a potential 6th man of the year in van vleet.

Everyone on our team isn’t even giving 70 % except for frank and Gibson. That is unacceptable, and that falls solely on the entire coaching staff.

Is this team good no and I don’t even expect a great coach to get this team a winning record... is this team better then 4 wins tied for the worst record in the league, yes absolutely.

Management needs to fire fiz and the staff to show the players we are not going to accept half Assing... we are bringing in a proven winner as a coach and you as players are next on the block if you don’t give 110%

Right now we could put out a g league squad and have a better chance of winning at least they will hustle.

Right now this team is on easy street with no accountability basically going through the motions to collect a paycheck. It’s unacceptable.

Keepers
Barrett
Frank
Knox
Gibson
Robinson
Iggy
Zo

The rest can go

We need to keep building through the draft eventually we are going to strike gold. We should be looking to gather as many first round picks as possible.

Steps to success

fire fiz and entire staff

Bring in a proven winner that holds players accountable and can build a winning culture.

Trade the high priced role players for picks

Maybe open up cap space for a star but don’t count on it.

Next year this team could look like

Pg: top five pick, frank, Payton
Sg: Barrett, zo and dot
Sf: Knox,first round pick from Randal,iggy
Pf: first round pick from Morris, free agent signing
C: Robinson, Gibson

We should also see if someone is willing to give us a first for dsjr

And next year still a lottery team but with another top 5 pick and Dallas pick

Pg: 2020 top pick, Frank, Payton
Sg: Barrett, zo, dot
Sf:2021 top 5 pick, knox, 2020 first round
Pf:2020first, Dallas pick
C: Robinson,Gibson

Hopefully with some of the lottery talent can attract a star throw the Greek freak in that squad and we are contenders. the rebuild is finished by 2021 and we contend for the next 10 years.

That is what a rebuild looks like everyone buckle in and enjoy the circus it’s gonna be a bumpy ride.

Can do n Knox be traded for something even half substantial?

Funny how the tank threads are beginning to emerge now.

Just 3 weeks ago is was a preposterous idea.

Everyone has been facing this

The untouchables in my eyes are RJ, Frank, and Mitch. The rest can be had at the right price.

The focus should be surrounding RJ and Mitch with players that properly compliment them and maximize their talent. Frank and Knox can possibly be fits. So can Randle or Morris, but not
likely both. But we need to add shooters and get more athletic. This team was so poorly constructed for today’s game. It’s not an issue of adding talent. They did that. It’s fit in today’s game.

Build around RJ. Mitch and Frank fits with RJ. RJ and Frank needs to get their shooting at a higher %age *states the obvious*. I believe they can do this since they have the work ethic and BBall IQ. I think Morris also fits as the stretch 4. We need shooter at the 3. I think we have it in our team right now but he has been hurt. Reggie Bullock is a 3 and D SF. It's really ashame that he is still hurt.

We also need a fucking coach that knows what he is doing.

Dotson, Trier, Knox are good bench players.

I would try to move Randle and DSJr and go from there.

We need a competent PG that will tell Randle to stop dribbling and take his butt to the low or mid post and stay there. Frank needs to grow some balls and stop deferring to Randle. I see RJ, Mitch, Frank, and Iggy as keepers. Knox may turn into a kEeper but his defense is so bad and his offense so erratic that I don't know about him. I would like to keep Dotson. Everyone else should be shopped. Obviously we cannot trade everyone but we do need to try to pickup at least two high second round picks. I would look to trade Knox, Trier, and Morris. We should get some decent picks back, then we tank the rest of the season and hope we can draft a competent PG in the draft.

TheGame wrote:We need a competent PG that will tell Randle to stop dribbling and take his butt to the low or mid post and stay there. Frank needs to grow some balls and stop deferring to Randle. I see RJ, Mitch, Frank, and Iggy as keepers. Knox may turn into a kEeper but his defense is so bad and his offense so erratic that I don't know about him. I would like to keep Dotson. Everyone else should be shopped. Obviously we cannot trade everyone but we do need to try to pickup at least two high second round picks. I would look to trade Knox, Trier, and Morris. We should get some decent picks back, then we tank the rest of the season and hope we can draft a competent PG in the draft.

Any PG will get sent to the bench if they don’t carry out Fizdale’s orders and execute his offense.

People overrate our core. No one on this team is that good. We have RJ and Mitch as high potiental pieces, Frank and Dotson are useful, and everyone else just sucks. Our front office is horrible we need to fall ass backwards into a star player to have any chance. What has Scott Perry done ? His resume has him trading away better players than he brought in? Who do we have thats better than Oladipo and Porzinigis, but we trust this guy to build our team? Why? We had a shot at Doncic and Young but weren't bad enough. The rules are stacked against us. They took out all the loopholes that gave big market teams an advantage so we can't use our financial might. I see no reason for optimism. Basically I'm just waiting for us to be bad enough in the right year to get our lead guard. Until we get that guy we will continue to suck. I think once we get our lead guard things will fall into place. I hope we are lucky enough to get a top 4 pick. We pick top 4 we will be ok

Jmpasq wrote:People overrate our core. No one on this team is that good. We have RJ and Mitch as high potiental pieces, Frank and Dotson are useful, and everyone else just sucks. Our front office is horrible we need to fall ass backwards into a star player to have any chance. What has Scott Perry done ? His resume has him trading away better players than he brought in? Who do we have thats better than Oladipo and Porzinigis, but we trust this guy to build our team? Why? We had a shot at Doncic and Young but weren't bad enough. The rules are stacked against us. They took out all the loopholes that gave big market teams an advantage so we can't use our financial might. I see no reason for optimism. Basically I'm just waiting for us to be bad enough in the right year to get our lead guard. Until we get that guy we will continue to suck. I think once we get our lead guard things will fall into place. I hope we are lucky enough to get a top 4 pick. We pick top 4 we will be ok

Its not so much that we overrate the players, its that many, many fans want to rate them as though they are mature players. They aren't. When they are those [over] ratings may be accurate.

The players don't suck. The team is not playing well so everyone looks bad. There's a difference.

Jmpasq wrote:People overrate our core. No one on this team is that good. We have RJ and Mitch as high potiental pieces, Frank and Dotson are useful, and everyone else just sucks. Our front office is horrible we need to fall ass backwards into a star player to have any chance. What has Scott Perry done ? His resume has him trading away better players than he brought in? Who do we have thats better than Oladipo and Porzinigis, but we trust this guy to build our team? Why? We had a shot at Doncic and Young but weren't bad enough. The rules are stacked against us. They took out all the loopholes that gave big market teams an advantage so we can't use our financial might. I see no reason for optimism. Basically I'm just waiting for us to be bad enough in the right year to get our lead guard. Until we get that guy we will continue to suck. I think once we get our lead guard things will fall into place. I hope we are lucky enough to get a top 4 pick. We pick top 4 we will be ok

It takes time. Remember, people were calling Oladipo trash after his first season in OKC. Wiggins is another example. People were calling him trash last year and now everyone is hugging his nuts. Same with KAT. Remember when we were trying to make the case that KP is as good as him hahahaha I might take KAT over Embiid right now. The point I'm making is that it takes some players longer than others. Hell, everyone is on KP's sh!t and he ain't even prove he can do it for more than half a season.
I don't think most sensible fans overrate our core to the point where we think this is a forty win team. Maybe we did overrate and he FA signings. Payton had success with Randle and the PnR last year. I thought that would something that transferred here. Didn't expect much from Ellington and Taj has just about succeeded expectations. Morris is who he is, just in a role he's probably not suited for. We shouldn't be good, but we shouldn't be as bad as last year. I've said it before, but there just isn't any coherent system on offense. I'm not talking about sets. I mean an identity. I like that Fiz puts players in uncomfortable position at times...just not crunch time or other crucial points. I feel that the games have become over glorified practice sessions.

Well, I just watched the Nets sans KI just crush the Celtics. So as bad as the Knicks played against the Nets, the MSM made it sound as if the Knicks had lost to a secondary squad of scrubs when, in fact, the Nets are playing like a well-oiled machine.

Yes, it sucks to have our record but I'm not convinced that the players nor the team are that far away from turning it around.

Actually - do we have any players that are keepers? Look, Mitch, RJ have promise.

But, will Mitch ever be able to stop fouling? We don't know. We hope.

RJ definitely looks like a nice talent. But is he a franchise talent? DO you see a player that might be in the running to be an MVP? I don't. All Star, yes for sure.

But we need to be focused on building a championship team.

I say everyone should be available in a trade. If there is a top 3 pick in a solid draft and someone asks for RJ, we need to evaluate and possibly say yes.

I'd see what we can get for DSjr. Maybe it's package.

But, we got nothing for Mudiay and after the season he had, we should have retained or traded him at the deadline last year.

I'll accept that we wouldn't have gotten a lot, but not even a 2nd rounder?

And if a 2nd rounder is all we can get for DSjr, do it. I just don't see a future for him here.

Vmart wrote:

TheGame wrote:We need a competent PG that will tell Randle to stop dribbling and take his butt to the low or mid post and stay there. Frank needs to grow some balls and stop deferring to Randle. I see RJ, Mitch, Frank, and Iggy as keepers. Knox may turn into a kEeper but his defense is so bad and his offense so erratic that I don't know about him. I would like to keep Dotson. Everyone else should be shopped. Obviously we cannot trade everyone but we do need to try to pickup at least two high second round picks. I would look to trade Knox, Trier, and Morris. We should get some decent picks back, then we tank the rest of the season and hope we can draft a competent PG in the draft.

Any PG will get sent to the bench if they don’t carry out Fizdale’s orders and execute his offense.

This is precisely the problem with Fiz. It's beyond frustrating that Frank's apparent role in this offense is to bring the ball up, hand it off to someone at the top of the key, and then just camp out on a corner baseline. He's not being allowed to facilitate, instead deferring to Randle who can't handle the ball for sh*t. We need a coach who will give Frank the freedom to run the offense. The PnR w/Mitch yesterday was a thing of beauty - we should be featuring that a dozen times a game instead of once a month!

franco12 wrote:Actually - do we have any players that are keepers? Look, Mitch, RJ have promise.

But, will Mitch ever be able to stop fouling? We don't know. We hope.

RJ definitely looks like a nice talent. But is he a franchise talent? DO you see a player that might be in the running to be an MVP? I don't. All Star, yes for sure.

But we need to be focused on building a championship team.

I say everyone should be available in a trade. If there is a top 3 pick in a solid draft and someone asks for RJ, we need to evaluate and possibly say yes.

I'd see what we can get for DSjr. Maybe it's package.

But, we got nothing for Mudiay and after the season he had, we should have retained or traded him at the deadline last year.

I'll accept that we wouldn't have gotten a lot, but not even a 2nd rounder?

And if a 2nd rounder is all we can get for DSjr, do it. I just don't see a future for him here.

We definitely have 2 potential future all stars in RJ and Mitch and a couple other potential role players in Ntilikina and knox. At this stage that’s all you can ask. We have to get a guard in this draft and get a good one.

fwk00 wrote:Well, I just watched the Nets sans KI just crush the Celtics. So as bad as the Knicks played against the Nets, the MSM made it sound as if the Knicks had lost to a secondary squad of scrubs when, in fact, the Nets are playing like a well-oiled machine.

Yes, it sucks to have our record but I'm not convinced that the players nor the team are that far away from turning it around.

The Nets are what happens when you have a GM and a coach that know what there doing

Meanwhile we have

Knixkik wrote:

franco12 wrote:Actually - do we have any players that are keepers? Look, Mitch, RJ have promise.

But, will Mitch ever be able to stop fouling? We don't know. We hope.

RJ definitely looks like a nice talent. But is he a franchise talent? DO you see a player that might be in the running to be an MVP? I don't. All Star, yes for sure.

But we need to be focused on building a championship team.

I say everyone should be available in a trade. If there is a top 3 pick in a solid draft and someone asks for RJ, we need to evaluate and possibly say yes.

I'd see what we can get for DSjr. Maybe it's package.

But, we got nothing for Mudiay and after the season he had, we should have retained or traded him at the deadline last year.

I'll accept that we wouldn't have gotten a lot, but not even a 2nd rounder?

And if a 2nd rounder is all we can get for DSjr, do it. I just don't see a future for him here.

We definitely have 2 potential future all stars in RJ and Mitch and a couple other potential role players in Ntilikina and knox. At this stage that’s all you can ask. We have to get a guard in this draft and get a good one.

I have hope he will, but if Mitch can't avoid averaging a foul a minute, he won't be in any all star game.

Knox and Frank are nice, but if someone offered you a potential top ten pick in a future draft, you'd be crazy not to take it.

franco12 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

franco12 wrote:Actually - do we have any players that are keepers? Look, Mitch, RJ have promise.

But, will Mitch ever be able to stop fouling? We don't know. We hope.

RJ definitely looks like a nice talent. But is he a franchise talent? DO you see a player that might be in the running to be an MVP? I don't. All Star, yes for sure.

But we need to be focused on building a championship team.

I say everyone should be available in a trade. If there is a top 3 pick in a solid draft and someone asks for RJ, we need to evaluate and possibly say yes.

I'd see what we can get for DSjr. Maybe it's package.

But, we got nothing for Mudiay and after the season he had, we should have retained or traded him at the deadline last year.

I'll accept that we wouldn't have gotten a lot, but not even a 2nd rounder?

And if a 2nd rounder is all we can get for DSjr, do it. I just don't see a future for him here.

We definitely have 2 potential future all stars in RJ and Mitch and a couple other potential role players in Ntilikina and knox. At this stage that’s all you can ask. We have to get a guard in this draft and get a good one.

I have hope he will, but if Mitch can't avoid averaging a foul a minute, he won't be in any all star game.

Knox and Frank are nice, but if someone offered you a potential top ten pick in a future draft, you'd be crazy not to take it.

Agree on Knox and frank. RJ and Mitch are the only untouchable/ foundation pieces.

franco12 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

franco12 wrote:Actually - do we have any players that are keepers? Look, Mitch, RJ have promise.

But, will Mitch ever be able to stop fouling? We don't know. We hope.

RJ definitely looks like a nice talent. But is he a franchise talent? DO you see a player that might be in the running to be an MVP? I don't. All Star, yes for sure.

But we need to be focused on building a championship team.

I say everyone should be available in a trade. If there is a top 3 pick in a solid draft and someone asks for RJ, we need to evaluate and possibly say yes.

I'd see what we can get for DSjr. Maybe it's package.

But, we got nothing for Mudiay and after the season he had, we should have retained or traded him at the deadline last year.

I'll accept that we wouldn't have gotten a lot, but not even a 2nd rounder?

And if a 2nd rounder is all we can get for DSjr, do it. I just don't see a future for him here.

We definitely have 2 potential future all stars in RJ and Mitch and a couple other potential role players in Ntilikina and knox. At this stage that’s all you can ask. We have to get a guard in this draft and get a good one.

I have hope he will, but if Mitch can't avoid averaging a foul a minute, he won't be in any all star game.

Knox and Frank are nice, but if someone offered you a potential top ten pick in a future draft, you'd be crazy not to take it.

The magical thinking with top ten picks is eternal on these boards. Frank and Knox ARE top ten picks who have paid some dues. Why reboot that same cycle over and over and over?

No they aren't generational stars but nobody is trading you one of those intentionally. What they are trading is a lottery ticket. Frankie and Knox are actually two of the more optimistic examples of what that comes out like.

This is not to say they're untradable, simply that that kind of trade isn't even a lateral move.

stanleybostitch wrote:

Vmart wrote:

TheGame wrote:We need a competent PG that will tell Randle to stop dribbling and take his butt to the low or mid post and stay there. Frank needs to grow some balls and stop deferring to Randle. I see RJ, Mitch, Frank, and Iggy as keepers. Knox may turn into a kEeper but his defense is so bad and his offense so erratic that I don't know about him. I would like to keep Dotson. Everyone else should be shopped. Obviously we cannot trade everyone but we do need to try to pickup at least two high second round picks. I would look to trade Knox, Trier, and Morris. We should get some decent picks back, then we tank the rest of the season and hope we can draft a competent PG in the draft.

Any PG will get sent to the bench if they don’t carry out Fizdale’s orders and execute his offense.

This is precisely the problem with Fiz. It's beyond frustrating that Frank's apparent role in this offense is to bring the ball up, hand it off to someone at the top of the key, and then just camp out on a corner baseline. He's not being allowed to facilitate, instead deferring to Randle who can't handle the ball for sh*t. We need a coach who will give Frank the freedom to run the offense. The PnR w/Mitch yesterday was a thing of beauty - we should be featuring that a dozen times a game instead of once a month!

This.