Knicks · Yes it’s early but here’s the 2020 NBA draft thread. (page 44)

BigDaddyG wrote:

smackeddog wrote:Don't think I've seen such a low intensity work out vid in a while- body language is not inspiring:

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Form looks revamped. Looks like their slowing it down until he gets more familiar with it.

Feel like he needs Woody shouting at him "game speed! game speed!"

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I presume a promise has been made

Good post! Well thought out and some good info here. With that said, I disagree with the premise that the Knicks need to lock in on a PG @ 8. The cupboard is bare at MSG and we are probably bottom 3 in terms of talent in the NBA. We need a serious injection of skilled players, and if the Knicks brass feel that the best prospect on the board @ 8 is a pg, so be it. But, in no way should we select Haliburton just because we need a pg, and leave a more talented player or a player with more potential like Okoro or Vassell on the board.

Love the potential of McDaniel @ 27 but doubt he will be there. He struggled in his first year, but he has loads of potential. He reminds me of Jonathan Bender, the 6'11 Sf prospect that had his career derailed by injuries.

Bane is definitely on the short list of players we should take a long look at @ 27.

Thanks!

I agree, you certainly shouldn't pass up a more talented player just to get a PG. However, I don't see Okoro or Vassell as having much more upside than the PGs I mentioned, including Haliburton. Vassell is the safest pick but his ceiling seems to be low. Okoro has immense upside but is also very raw. Just the fact that he's not a proven shooter scares me, regardless of his defensive prowess. People compare him to K.Leonard but IMO thats crazy.

But if Toppin or D.Avdija slide to 8, I'm definitely considering passing on a PG.

there have been plenty of gems picked over the year around both of our slots

Chandler wrote:
I'm now in the camp where I want a wtf selection -- either who is that guy, or why that guy so soon. If nothing else it will indicate to me that the FO had their own criteria and were not swayed by popular opinion.

there have been plenty of gems picked over the year around both of our slots

Pepper wrote:

Chandler wrote:
I'm now in the camp where I want a wtf selection -- either who is that guy, or why that guy so soon. If nothing else it will indicate to me that the FO had their own criteria and were not swayed by popular opinion.

there have been plenty of gems picked over the year around both of our slots

LOL do you have any prospects you could imagine being 'wtf' selections? Like Precious Achiuwa maybe? Athletic forward. Guy has immense upside. He's from NYC. I could see that being a 'wtf' selection.

Pepper wrote:

Chandler wrote:
I'm now in the camp where I want a wtf selection -- either who is that guy, or why that guy so soon. If nothing else it will indicate to me that the FO had their own criteria and were not swayed by popular opinion.

there have been plenty of gems picked over the year around both of our slots

LOL do you have any prospects you could imagine being 'wtf' selections? Like Precious Achiuwa maybe? Athletic forward. Guy has immense upside. He's from NYC. I could see that being a 'wtf' selection.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Pepper wrote:

Chandler wrote:
I'm now in the camp where I want a wtf selection -- either who is that guy, or why that guy so soon. If nothing else it will indicate to me that the FO had their own criteria and were not swayed by popular opinion.

there have been plenty of gems picked over the year around both of our slots

LOL do you have any prospects you could imagine being 'wtf' selections? Like Precious Achiuwa maybe? Athletic forward. Guy has immense upside. He's from NYC. I could see that being a 'wtf' selection.

He could develop into the four we need with Mitch. All depends on how much he develops his J. Reminds me of Siakam in some ways.

he might be one. SOmething that shows independent thinking

i think a lot of the sportswriters, mock drafters mostly go by game tape, high light reels. that stuff is important but incomplete IMO

i want a guy where the FO/CS feels a real connection and fit and sees continued growth, heart, brains (i.e., stuff that doesn't show on tape)

So it may look like we over-reached but in reality it was (hopefully) superior due diligence

i think there's a lot of fool's gold hyped up now. Personally I'm not good at spotting that but i have my suspects, e.g., LaMelo (Lonzo 2.0), Edwards (looks great, can't shoot), Okoro (6'6" -- yikes),

KnickDanger wrote:

Pepper wrote:

Chandler wrote:
I'm now in the camp where I want a wtf selection -- either who is that guy, or why that guy so soon. If nothing else it will indicate to me that the FO had their own criteria and were not swayed by popular opinion.

there have been plenty of gems picked over the year around both of our slots

LOL do you have any prospects you could imagine being 'wtf' selections? Like Precious Achiuwa maybe? Athletic forward. Guy has immense upside. He's from NYC. I could see that being a 'wtf' selection.

New York fans and media just love "wtf" selections.

haha

maybe that should be the nickname of our selection

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martin wrote:

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Had Pat Williams rising to #7 and Vassell going to us at #8. Also has Saddiq Bey dropping to us at #27. Wouldn't be that bad an outcome.

smackeddog wrote:

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I presume a promise has been made

What is enticing about Okoro is that dogged street fighter mentality. There's something to be said about a guy who will steal your lunch then try to beat you to death with the lunchbox afterwards. I don't think the shot will translate but it's hard not to root for a guy like that.

When I was doing Brazilian Jujitsu for a while, there was this guy no one wanted to ever fight. He wasn't the most talented guy but he was like fighting a bear. It was just relentless 300 percent power all the time. One time he rigged up a harness to drag weights behind him. He already had on a weight vest, a high altitude mask and ankle weights. Then he pushed a loaded Prowler sled around. For like a fucking hour and a half. The last 20 minutes he got the fattest guy he could find to stand on the sled. The guy even drank water like he was in a rage. He just wore people down. But the unintentional by product is everyone else worked harder. You could not be around a guy like that and be lazy. Everyone sort of knew if you had zero rules, this guy would destroy you by being the last guy standing. You can't teach that kind of fury, it has to come from within.

Some people are born with no off switch. These are guys you want on your side when shit goes bad. That's Okoro. I don't know if he'll break through, but he's an instant "culture" type guy that is good for a locker room.

TripleThreat wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

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I presume a promise has been made

What is enticing about Okoro is that dogged street fighter mentality. There's something to be said about a guy who will steal your lunch then try to beat you to death with the lunchbox afterwards. I don't think the shot will translate but it's hard not to root for a guy like that.

When I was doing Brazilian Jujitsu for a while, there was this guy no one wanted to ever fight. He wasn't the most talented guy but he was like fighting a bear. It was just relentless 300 percent power all the time. One time he rigged up a harness to drag weights behind him. He already had on a weight vest, a high altitude mask and ankle weights. Then he pushed a loaded Prowler sled around. For like a fucking hour and a half. The last 20 minutes he got the fattest guy he could find to stand on the sled. The guy even drank water like he was in a rage. He just wore people down. But the unintentional by product is everyone else worked harder. You could not be around a guy like that and be lazy. Everyone sort of knew if you had zero rules, this guy would destroy you by being the last guy standing. You can't teach that kind of fury, it has to come from within.

Some people are born with no off switch. These are guys you want on your side when shit goes bad. That's Okoro. I don't know if he'll break through, but he's an instant "culture" type guy that is good for a locker room.

Triple I agree with what you say, but any concerns about his size or lack of an offensive skill set? Also the character traits you mention are great but if they are his primary traits and we're going in with questions on skill set or size that to me sounds more like a 27 pick than an 8. I say this wanting us to priortize toughness, competitiveness and IQ.

Who exactly is he going to stop at 6'6". Is he large enough to slow down Lebron, or Giannis, Kawhi et al. If so I get it. If not i question the benefit of a junkyard dog type chasing SGs and SFs around the perimeter

Chandler wrote:Triple I agree with what you say, but any concerns about his size or lack of an offensive skill set?

His shot looks broken. Like completely broken.

Where the bulldog mentality might help is a team might have an easier time visualizing him hitting his potential ceiling. Do I think the Knicks should draft him at 8? No. Can I see why many would want to do it? Yes.

He looks, if he hits his ceiling, as one of the few players in this draft who might be the most able to consistently create his own shot. That's going to entice some teams.

TripleThreat wrote:

Chandler wrote:Triple I agree with what you say, but any concerns about his size or lack of an offensive skill set?

His shot looks broken. Like completely broken.

Where the bulldog mentality might help is a team might have an easier time visualizing him hitting his potential ceiling. Do I think the Knicks should draft him at 8? No. Can I see why many would want to do it? Yes.

He looks, if he hits his ceiling, as one of the few players in this draft who might be the most able to consistently create his own shot. That's going to entice some teams.

thanks not only do i respect your views but i look forward to your posts

who do you think the best player is in the draft, and who is the best pick for Knicks who might reasonably be at 8

Chandler wrote:who do you think the best player is in the draft, and who is the best pick for Knicks who might reasonably be at 8

I don't think the Knicks can or will trade up.

If the Knicks hold their draft position, they should take Saddiq Bey out of Villanova. He's projected to range around 11-14, so it would be a bit of reach. Some projections have him going as far as 18-20. I think the former is a more realistic range. I want to be fair in that he does not represent the best value for the draft slot ( 8th vs 11-14) but I still think he will be the best player in the entire class. Also I want to be fair that I have an inherent bias for high floor locked in fundamental players. Villanova has a refined process and they churn out very projectible prospects. Bey has everything you both want and need to win playoff games, he's just not very sexy on tape.

If Onyeka Okongwu is still on the board at 8th, though I doubt it, he's maybe the one player if he slips into Tier 2, that teams might be willing to trade up for to get. In that case, the Knicks should try to talk to Boston to trade back to 14 and also pick up 26 and 30. At 14, Bey might still be there. If not, World Wide Wes would push for Maxey. If Bey is off the board and the Knicks can trade back, Tyrese Maxey would be the best value pick.

I would say Jon Givony is the most wired in of the established mock drafts and he has Precious Achiuwa as a riser. There's a very small chance he, or Patrick Williams, could reset the board before 8th and cause a player to fall. I highly doubt it though.

Unless something bizarre happens like Wiseman freefalling, I think the Knicks end up holding their draft position and draft Devin Vassell. I think that's what will happen. I wouldn't draft him there personally.

TL/DR

Best player in the class - Saddiq Bey
Who I'd pick at 8th - Saddiq Bey
Who I'd pick at 12-15 if the Knicks could trade back - Bey, then Maxey
Who I think the Knicks will end up with in reality - Devin Vassell

TripleThreat wrote:

Chandler wrote:who do you think the best player is in the draft, and who is the best pick for Knicks who might reasonably be at 8

I don't think the Knicks can or will trade up.

If the Knicks hold their draft position, they should take Saddiq Bey out of Villanova. He's projected to range around 11-14, so it would be a bit of reach. Some projections have him going as far as 18-20. I think the former is a more realistic range. I want to be fair in that he does not represent the best value for the draft slot ( 8th vs 11-14) but I still think he will be the best player in the entire class. Also I want to be fair that I have an inherent bias for high floor locked in fundamental players. Villanova has a refined process and they churn out very projectible prospects. Bey has everything you both want and need to win playoff games, he's just not very sexy on tape.

If Onyeka Okongwu is still on the board at 8th, though I doubt it, he's maybe the one player if he slips into Tier 2, that teams might be willing to trade up for to get. In that case, the Knicks should try to talk to Boston to trade back to 14 and also pick up 26 and 30. At 14, Bey might still be there. If not, World Wide Wes would push for Maxey. If Bey is off the board and the Knicks can trade back, Tyrese Maxey would be the best value pick.

I would say Jon Givony is the most wired in of the established mock drafts and he has Precious Achiuwa as a riser. There's a very small chance he, or Patrick Williams, could reset the board before 8th and cause a player to fall. I highly doubt it though.

Unless something bizarre happens like Wiseman freefalling, I think the Knicks end up holding their draft position and draft Devin Vassell. I think that's what will happen. I wouldn't draft him there personally.

TL/DR

Best player in the class - Saddiq Bey
Who I'd pick at 8th - Saddiq Bey
Who I'd pick at 12-15 if the Knicks could trade back - Bey, then Maxey
Who I think the Knicks will end up with in reality - Devin Vassell

Jalen Smith also seen as a riser- don’t know much about him, other than he looks long like Mo Bamba

TripleThreat wrote:

Chandler wrote:who do you think the best player is in the draft, and who is the best pick for Knicks who might reasonably be at 8

I don't think the Knicks can or will trade up.

If the Knicks hold their draft position, they should take Saddiq Bey out of Villanova. He's projected to range around 11-14, so it would be a bit of reach. Some projections have him going as far as 18-20. I think the former is a more realistic range. I want to be fair in that he does not represent the best value for the draft slot ( 8th vs 11-14) but I still think he will be the best player in the entire class. Also I want to be fair that I have an inherent bias for high floor locked in fundamental players. Villanova has a refined process and they churn out very projectible prospects. Bey has everything you both want and need to win playoff games, he's just not very sexy on tape.

If Onyeka Okongwu is still on the board at 8th, though I doubt it, he's maybe the one player if he slips into Tier 2, that teams might be willing to trade up for to get. In that case, the Knicks should try to talk to Boston to trade back to 14 and also pick up 26 and 30. At 14, Bey might still be there. If not, World Wide Wes would push for Maxey. If Bey is off the board and the Knicks can trade back, Tyrese Maxey would be the best value pick.

I would say Jon Givony is the most wired in of the established mock drafts and he has Precious Achiuwa as a riser. There's a very small chance he, or Patrick Williams, could reset the board before 8th and cause a player to fall. I highly doubt it though.

Unless something bizarre happens like Wiseman freefalling, I think the Knicks end up holding their draft position and draft Devin Vassell. I think that's what will happen. I wouldn't draft him there personally.

TL/DR

Best player in the class - Saddiq Bey
Who I'd pick at 8th - Saddiq Bey
Who I'd pick at 12-15 if the Knicks could trade back - Bey, then Maxey
Who I think the Knicks will end up with in reality - Devin Vassell

Thanks!!

Bey counts as a type of WTF selection I'm hoping for. Everyone is mocking Vassell; if they pick Bey it means they're seeing things independently

TripleThreat wrote:

Chandler wrote:who do you think the best player is in the draft, and who is the best pick for Knicks who might reasonably be at 8

I don't think the Knicks can or will trade up.

If the Knicks hold their draft position, they should take Saddiq Bey out of Villanova. He's projected to range around 11-14, so it would be a bit of reach. Some projections have him going as far as 18-20. I think the former is a more realistic range. I want to be fair in that he does not represent the best value for the draft slot ( 8th vs 11-14) but I still think he will be the best player in the entire class. Also I want to be fair that I have an inherent bias for high floor locked in fundamental players. Villanova has a refined process and they churn out very projectible prospects. Bey has everything you both want and need to win playoff games, he's just not very sexy on tape.

If Onyeka Okongwu is still on the board at 8th, though I doubt it, he's maybe the one player if he slips into Tier 2, that teams might be willing to trade up for to get. In that case, the Knicks should try to talk to Boston to trade back to 14 and also pick up 26 and 30. At 14, Bey might still be there. If not, World Wide Wes would push for Maxey. If Bey is off the board and the Knicks can trade back, Tyrese Maxey would be the best value pick.

I would say Jon Givony is the most wired in of the established mock drafts and he has Precious Achiuwa as a riser. There's a very small chance he, or Patrick Williams, could reset the board before 8th and cause a player to fall. I highly doubt it though.

Unless something bizarre happens like Wiseman freefalling, I think the Knicks end up holding their draft position and draft Devin Vassell. I think that's what will happen. I wouldn't draft him there personally.

TL/DR

Best player in the class - Saddiq Bey
Who I'd pick at 8th - Saddiq Bey
Who I'd pick at 12-15 if the Knicks could trade back - Bey, then Maxey
Who I think the Knicks will end up with in reality - Devin Vassell

Can i ask another question please? I'm a big believer in the notion that there is a lot of smoke and planted hype on guys essentially to cause the dumb teams to continue to make dumb picks AND vice versa planting stories to make better players drop -- e.g., D. Mitchell can't shoot. People do that in the business world all the time so i don't see why sports would be different.

ANy insights one way or the other on this and if true are there good examples in this draft. For example, I keep hearing stories how Obi can't do this or that and secretly am wondering if it's BS and whether we're looking at Amar'e 2.0. COnversely, people are talking up Deni A even though he's shooting FT at 55%?

Chandler wrote:

TripleThreat wrote:

Chandler wrote:who do you think the best player is in the draft, and who is the best pick for Knicks who might reasonably be at 8

I don't think the Knicks can or will trade up.

If the Knicks hold their draft position, they should take Saddiq Bey out of Villanova. He's projected to range around 11-14, so it would be a bit of reach. Some projections have him going as far as 18-20. I think the former is a more realistic range. I want to be fair in that he does not represent the best value for the draft slot ( 8th vs 11-14) but I still think he will be the best player in the entire class. Also I want to be fair that I have an inherent bias for high floor locked in fundamental players. Villanova has a refined process and they churn out very projectible prospects. Bey has everything you both want and need to win playoff games, he's just not very sexy on tape.

If Onyeka Okongwu is still on the board at 8th, though I doubt it, he's maybe the one player if he slips into Tier 2, that teams might be willing to trade up for to get. In that case, the Knicks should try to talk to Boston to trade back to 14 and also pick up 26 and 30. At 14, Bey might still be there. If not, World Wide Wes would push for Maxey. If Bey is off the board and the Knicks can trade back, Tyrese Maxey would be the best value pick.

I would say Jon Givony is the most wired in of the established mock drafts and he has Precious Achiuwa as a riser. There's a very small chance he, or Patrick Williams, could reset the board before 8th and cause a player to fall. I highly doubt it though.

Unless something bizarre happens like Wiseman freefalling, I think the Knicks end up holding their draft position and draft Devin Vassell. I think that's what will happen. I wouldn't draft him there personally.

TL/DR

Best player in the class - Saddiq Bey
Who I'd pick at 8th - Saddiq Bey
Who I'd pick at 12-15 if the Knicks could trade back - Bey, then Maxey
Who I think the Knicks will end up with in reality - Devin Vassell

Can i ask another question please? I'm a big believer in the notion that there is a lot of smoke and planted hype on guys essentially to cause the dumb teams to continue to make dumb picks AND vice versa planting stories to make better players drop -- e.g., D. Mitchell can't shoot. People do that in the business world all the time so i don't see why sports would be different.

ANy insights one way or the other on this and if true are there good examples in this draft. For example, I keep hearing stories how Obi can't do this or that and secretly am wondering if it's BS and whether we're looking at Amar'e 2.0. COnversely, people are talking up Deni A even though he's shooting FT at 55%?

Fair question to ask about Deni. His spot up and three point shooting did improve as the season went in. The free throw shooting is a red flag, but I don't think it's as big of one when you consider his other shooting improvements. Could be he just needs more reps. As for Donovan, he was a really spotty shooter at Louisville. I mentioned in another thread that his shooting numbers were similar to Cole Anthony's. This is case where you have to look at a team's schemes, personnel and analytics to filter out the noise. As for Obi, the eye test speaks for itself. He truly was horrendous as a defender. The questions are if this is just a question of technique or if he's just to stiff and slow laterally to ever make real improvements.