Knicks · Kobe Bryant dead?!?! (page 3)
Allanfan20 wrote:Gets sadder and sadder as the day gets older and reality settles on.Yeah it gradually got worse. First you find out that he died and can’t really process it, the the possibly that his daughter was on it which was horrendous, then find out that the death toll went from 5 to 9. Just too much
Allanfan20 wrote:Gets sadder and sadder as the day gets older and reality settles on.This.
StarksEwing1 wrote:Allanfan20 wrote:Gets sadder and sadder as the day gets older and reality settles on.Yeah it gradually got worse. First you find out that he died and can’t really process it, the the possibly that his daughter was on it which was horrendous, then find out that the death toll went from 5 to 9. Just too much
Yeah. I feel bad for the families or friends of the other people as well. They are the nameless that very few people probably know but those few are devastated just as bad.
And what Kobes wife and remaining kids now have to go through. Awful.
Nalod wrote:Many sides to Kobe. Young protoge, Mamba, Champion, Father, Son, Husband, Oscar winning producer, Adulterer, MVP, Rapist, and public figure.Very inappropriate. Alleged rapist.
You're certainly entitled to have an opinion about what you think happened, but the criminal case was dropped and the civil case was settled.
Welpee wrote:Nalod wrote:Many sides to Kobe. Young protoge, Mamba, Champion, Father, Son, Husband, Oscar winning producer, Adulterer, MVP, Rapist, and public figure.Very inappropriate. You're certainly entitled to have an opinion about what you think happened, but the criminal case was dropped and the civil case was settled.
100% agreed. A rapist would have to be convicted. He’s been accused. That’s about as far as it ever went.
However we live in a society today that’s ready cast stones and label your entire life and career over a single mistake. If Kobe had the ‘rape’ situation recently he would have been canceled and never heard from again. It’s just a sad state of where we are as a society. Nobody is allowed to make mistakes and get retribution. It’s one strike and you’re our, as if the rest of those people are perfect. As if they’ve never made mistakes. People who act like this, as if they’re levitating above the rest of us, are the worst type of people.
Nalod wrote:Many sides to Kobe. Young protoge, Mamba, Champion, Father, Son, Husband, Oscar winning producer, Adulterer, MVP, Rapist, and public figure.
Lupica's piece I thought was pretty much along the lines of Nalod: "Just don't forget he was accused of rape!"
Adulterer? Wow, I thought this culture had moved on from pointing out "sin". Interesting. Newsflash: if you've looked at the alba thread, you're also an adulterer.
Those inhabiting the upper stratospheres of society get all the attention and scrutiny the rest of us never have to deal with. Part of the package. Millionaire athletes, billionaire owners, media personalities. You can live not truly giving af about making mortgage payments or whether or not gas is cheaper 3 blocks over. Trade off is TMZ and the masses want to know all about your dirty laundry. Stakes are high in that regard. You would think it wouldn't matter, because Kobe was people, just like anyone else. He didn't levitate, there was no glowing disk around his head. Just like the rest of us, not born in a manger.
It's a tragedy, and we take special note of his and his daughter's death because of his profession and his successes in that profession. If you love the sport and even if you didn't care for his game, it's just a sickeningly sad day.
39 people died in Turkey yesterday during an earthquake. It's not as newsworthy for those families and those individual victims. Extremely sad as well.
His past failures aren't to be ignored. But I think pointing them out, when nobody I've heard is trying to canonize him, is a bit unnecessary at this point.
jrodmc wrote:Lupica's piece I thought was pretty much along the lines of Nalod: "Just don't forget he was accused of rape!"Well, the accusation has to be part of the Kobe narrative. No getting around that if you want to be honest. But nobody but Kobe and the victim know what really happened and without a conviction it is irresponsible for anyone to call him a rapist.
Welpee wrote:jrodmc wrote:Lupica's piece I thought was pretty much along the lines of Nalod: "Just don't forget he was accused of rape!"Well, the accusation has to be part of the Kobe narrative. No getting around that if you want to be honest. But nobody but Kobe and the victim know what really happened and without a conviction it is irresponsible for anyone to call him a rapist.
I just wish everyone could just bite their tongue for 72 hours or something reasonable? A wife just lost her husband and daughters their father.
Nalod wrote:Many sides to Kobe. Young protoge, Mamba, Champion, Father, Son, Husband, Oscar winning producer, Adulterer, MVP, Rapist, and public figure. He lived it in the public eye and like most of us life taught us the lessons and men we become. Doing it so publically is never easy. A man, flawed like most of us but also we saw some redemption. Shocking when a public figure is taken in the prime of life. When Thurman Munson died I felt an emptiness. Wealth brings priviledge and a helicopter to beat traffic is a luxury. Similar as was when Munson perished who owned his own jet. He wanted to spend more time with his family. Kobe was with his daughter. So empty to lose men of stature so unessisarily and even worse a child. I have lost family members to small craft crashing that scars us forever every day. It was uncessisary but we learn people have a destiny and moving fast is part of it. We all do it. Maybe drive a bit aggressively, cross at a traffic light when it says "Don't Walk", etc.........Its sad and devistating. I hope he and his dad found their peace.
None of us knew him personally but we grew up as basketball fans and he was a cultural icon. Sad day for sure.
Naturally some of you snit mongers will pull out one thing but not the full context or digest what I wrote. HIs redemption was evident by his wife allowing him back in her life and they trust they build. Also there was a 4mm ring he bought her. Not the court of public opinion.
This was his statement to settle
“First, I want to apologize directly to the young woman involved in this incident. I want to apologize to her for my behavior that night and for the consequences she has suffered in the past year. Although this year has been incredibly difficult for me personally, I can only imagine the pain she has had to endure. I also want to apologize to her parents and family members, and to my family and friends and supporters, and to the citizens of Eagle, Colo.I also want to make it clear that I do not question the motives of this young woman. No money has been paid to this woman. She has agreed that this statement will not be used against me in the civil case. Although I truly believe this encounter between us was consensual, I recognize now that she did not and does not view this incident the same way I did. After months of reviewing discovery, listening to her attorney, and even her testimony in person, I now understand how she feels that she did not consent to this encounter.I issue this statement today fully aware that while one part of this case ends today, another remains. I understand that the civil case against me will go forward. That part of this case will be decided by and between the parties directly involved in the incident and will no longer be a financial or emotional drain on the citizens of the state of Colorado.”
Let’s be clear, Kobe lived a very pubic life. Brilliance on the basketball court does not make him a great man. Redemption? Thats between him, his god his wife and his daughters. HE kept his marriage and family together. He appeared to be a good dad. He married perhaps to young and like a lot of young men did not consider his actions effects on his family. All this in the public eye. His public transgressions made him “complex” and in part molded who he was and became. I listed all his wonderful things and his two flaws. Perhaps became he made good on that he became a better person and we respected him even more. LA times did a piece last nite about “What happend in Colorado”. Its part of his history. Nobody here knows him personally and I for one are not judging him.
Kobe was many things wonderful. First and foremost he was a basketball player. Every day tragic things happen to families. Fathers, Mothers, and Children perish. Kobe death is not any less tragic. He was a cultural icon for a generation and that makes his passing an event. Like Michael Jackson, Elvis, and others. They were human and humans are flawed. When you live a public life your accept that. Kobe was no different.
Maybe his greatest accomplishment was growing out from his “Colorado incident” to win over the trust from his family. If so, I stand by using all the descriptors. Kobe came to the public as a basketball prodigy and a “winner”. With that an arrogance and selfishness that demands to be fed to succeed. He died a respected man loved by his wife and children. No man’s wealth can be measured greater than that!
jrodmc wrote:Nalod wrote:Many sides to Kobe. Young protoge, Mamba, Champion, Father, Son, Husband, Oscar winning producer, Adulterer, MVP, Rapist, and public figure.
Lupica's piece I thought was pretty much along the lines of Nalod: "Just don't forget he was accused of rape!"Adulterer? Wow, I thought this culture had moved on from pointing out "sin". Interesting. Newsflash: if you've looked at the alba thread, you're also an adulterer.
Those inhabiting the upper stratospheres of society get all the attention and scrutiny the rest of us never have to deal with. Part of the package. Millionaire athletes, billionaire owners, media personalities. You can live not truly giving af about making mortgage payments or whether or not gas is cheaper 3 blocks over. Trade off is TMZ and the masses want to know all about your dirty laundry. Stakes are high in that regard. You would think it wouldn't matter, because Kobe was people, just like anyone else. He didn't levitate, there was no glowing disk around his head. Just like the rest of us, not born in a manger.
It's a tragedy, and we take special note of his and his daughter's death because of his profession and his successes in that profession. If you love the sport and even if you didn't care for his game, it's just a sickeningly sad day.
39 people died in Turkey yesterday during an earthquake. It's not as newsworthy for those families and those individual victims. Extremely sad as well.
His past failures aren't to be ignored. But I think pointing them out, when nobody I've heard is trying to canonize him, is a bit unnecessary at this point.
Thats your take. My take is what a man does when faced with adversity. He did what he did an it was very public. The public that puts him on the pedestal is the very one that judged him and took him down. But its also the one that allows for redemption and he made good with his wife and kids. THats all that really matters. And what of you JROD? You are attentions to elevate yourself above this with a vanity that might surpass those you accuse of doing so.
Does Kobes basketball brilliance excuse him from his transgressions? HE died and its why we look back and remember him. I think the most beautiful thing about him is the public display of being with his daughters. The contrast of his “incident” and to see him as he was with them makes his story all the more substantial to me.
I’m a secure man who can look at Jessica Alba and admire her beauty. You judge me an adulterer?
SupremeCommander wrote:this.Welpee wrote:jrodmc wrote:Lupica's piece I thought was pretty much along the lines of Nalod: "Just don't forget he was accused of rape!"Well, the accusation has to be part of the Kobe narrative. No getting around that if you want to be honest. But nobody but Kobe and the victim know what really happened and without a conviction it is irresponsible for anyone to call him a rapist.I just wish everyone could just bite their tongue for 72 hours or something reasonable? A wife just lost her husband and daughters their father.
Death is the great equalizer. Memento Mori.
RIP Kobe.
jrodmc wrote:Nalod wrote:Many sides to Kobe. Young protoge, Mamba, Champion, Father, Son, Husband, Oscar winning producer, Adulterer, MVP, Rapist, and public figure.
Lupica's piece I thought was pretty much along the lines of Nalod: "Just don't forget he was accused of rape!"Adulterer? Wow, I thought this culture had moved on from pointing out "sin". Interesting. Newsflash: if you've looked at the alba thread, you're also an adulterer.
Those inhabiting the upper stratospheres of society get all the attention and scrutiny the rest of us never have to deal with. Part of the package. Millionaire athletes, billionaire owners, media personalities. You can live not truly giving af about making mortgage payments or whether or not gas is cheaper 3 blocks over. Trade off is TMZ and the masses want to know all about your dirty laundry. Stakes are high in that regard. You would think it wouldn't matter, because Kobe was people, just like anyone else. He didn't levitate, there was no glowing disk around his head. Just like the rest of us, not born in a manger.
It's a tragedy, and we take special note of his and his daughter's death because of his profession and his successes in that profession. If you love the sport and even if you didn't care for his game, it's just a sickeningly sad day.
39 people died in Turkey yesterday during an earthquake. It's not as newsworthy for those families and those individual victims. Extremely sad as well.
His past failures aren't to be ignored. But I think pointing them out, when nobody I've heard is trying to canonize him, is a bit unnecessary at this point.
Tell them, Einstein. You got this. Your best post evah.
I really respected the hell out of KOBE, I wasn't a huge fan of his during his first 5/6 season, but when I saw the piece SPIKE LEE did on him, He became one of my favorite athletes. His work ethic, respect for his craft and competitiveness, can only be match by a hand full of athletes ever.
His desire to win and the work he put in to not just be great, but be the best was the most impressive thing about him...
Nalod wrote:jrodmc wrote:Nalod wrote:Many sides to Kobe. Young protoge, Mamba, Champion, Father, Son, Husband, Oscar winning producer, Adulterer, MVP, Rapist, and public figure.
Lupica's piece I thought was pretty much along the lines of Nalod: "Just don't forget he was accused of rape!"Adulterer? Wow, I thought this culture had moved on from pointing out "sin". Interesting. Newsflash: if you've looked at the alba thread, you're also an adulterer.
Those inhabiting the upper stratospheres of society get all the attention and scrutiny the rest of us never have to deal with. Part of the package. Millionaire athletes, billionaire owners, media personalities. You can live not truly giving af about making mortgage payments or whether or not gas is cheaper 3 blocks over. Trade off is TMZ and the masses want to know all about your dirty laundry. Stakes are high in that regard. You would think it wouldn't matter, because Kobe was people, just like anyone else. He didn't levitate, there was no glowing disk around his head. Just like the rest of us, not born in a manger.
It's a tragedy, and we take special note of his and his daughter's death because of his profession and his successes in that profession. If you love the sport and even if you didn't care for his game, it's just a sickeningly sad day.
39 people died in Turkey yesterday during an earthquake. It's not as newsworthy for those families and those individual victims. Extremely sad as well.
His past failures aren't to be ignored. But I think pointing them out, when nobody I've heard is trying to canonize him, is a bit unnecessary at this point.
Thats your take. My take is what a man does when faced with adversity. He did what he did an it was very public. The public that puts him on the pedestal is the very one that judged him and took him down. But its also the one that allows for redemption and he made good with his wife and kids. THats all that really matters. And what of you JROD? You are attentions to elevate yourself above this with a vanity that might surpass those you accuse of doing so.
Does Kobes basketball brilliance excuse him from his transgressions? HE died and its why we look back and remember him. I think the most beautiful thing about him is the public display of being with his daughters. The contrast of his “incident” and to see him as he was with them makes his story all the more substantial to me.I’m a secure man who can look at Jessica Alba and admire her beauty. You judge me an adulterer?
Took him down? How did the public do that? By allowing NALOD to type "rapist" as part of the epitaph?
Not elevating anything. Once again, reading is fundamental. I found it slightly jarring, even as a Christian, to see "rapist" and "Adulterer" (with a capital A, no less) listed as part of Kobe's 'complexity'.
As stated, I haven't read ANYONE trying to excuse Kobe from anything in his past, exposed or not exposed. NALOD is the one that chose to list the unsavory part of the legacy. My "attentions to elevate" myself? My only point was the tactlessness of listing it at this raw, visceral of a moment.
My take on Adultery is just that. The bar for some is a bit higher than just actually committing the physical act. That was my bad.
EwingsGlass wrote:The death of a public figure has never affected me so deeply as this. Being roughly the same age, I've had the honor to watch this man play so many games. Sometimes he was the opposing player frustrating my desire for the Knicks to win. Sometimes, I was lucky enough to cheer for him (Team USA, for instance). In each instance, I respected him. First and foremost, I have empathy for the Bryant family. Beyond that, I think of the things he was working on in television, movies and books and the loss it means for all of us. The depth of his abilities went far beyond the basketball court. I have nothing but respect for his legacy.
Yeah, I’m roughly the same age too, plus the year he got drafted was the first draft after I got into basketball (I started watching just after Don Nelson got canned as our coach and JVG took over)
fishmike wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:this.Welpee wrote:jrodmc wrote:Lupica's piece I thought was pretty much along the lines of Nalod: "Just don't forget he was accused of rape!"Well, the accusation has to be part of the Kobe narrative. No getting around that if you want to be honest. But nobody but Kobe and the victim know what really happened and without a conviction it is irresponsible for anyone to call him a rapist.I just wish everyone could just bite their tongue for 72 hours or something reasonable? A wife just lost her husband and daughters their father.
+100000
Uptown wrote:Found out Kobe died an hour after attending my aunts funeral in Philly. We gathered at my grandmothers house with extended family. One of the elders pointed that Kobe was actually a distant cousin of mine. My grandmother's maiden name was Bryant and most of my family resides in and around philly, not sure why I never put 2 and 2 together. Either way, rest in peace to Kobe, his daughter and everyone else who lost their lives. Prayers to all of the victims families....
Just wanted to vent this out. It’s a tough weekend on Long Island. We’re all upset about Kobe and everyone on the helicopter. We’ve been talking about it at work all day. There is also a crazy story about how an abused child got murdered here on Long Island that is causing ALL of us to be pissed. Rough weekend.
But I have mourned for public figures who died who i didn't know personally before so i get it. A part of you dies as well. Teenage me shed tears when the lead singers of my favorite bands died suddenly. I missed those guys because i felt deprived of the music they would've created if they lived. And these guys mostly killed themselves. Slow and not so slow suicide.
The listing of accomplishments and failings... that's what an outside observer can see. As fans you never really know the guy you root for. So you can only list the Pros/Cons that you're aware of. You don't know what is in their heart. You hear 'rape', and you assume the worst. And maybe 'the worst' is accurate. Maybe it isn't. Maybe there's a lot of grey area we have no knowledge of. So why parrot these labels when you don't know the person?
If you know someone who is gone, there was no listing of their failings successes. Of if there were that wasn't what mattered about them. We don't miss the MVPs. We miss the person. And a person can't be reduced to a label that you don't even understand. Even if a guy dies because of a needle they stuck into themselves. Can you just call them a junkie? Reduce their humanity to their lowest moment? That would be wrong too. But you don't know them, you only know what the archtype of a junkie looks like and that lets you feel less remorse for them being gone.
My friend ultimately died because he used a dirty needle to shoot a drug into his veins that no one but him had any idea he was taking. Yeah i'm angry at him, but at the same time i can't be angry at him. Because I knew him. I could understand the desperation that led him there. He didn't die a junkie. He died my friend.
Kobe or __insert famous name here__ never have a relationship with the fans the same way we wish we could have a relationship with them. They're not really real people to us. We treat them as idols or archtypes and any failing we magnify because it shows them to be false idols. The irony is nobody is perfect we are all false idols. So we should'n't expect perfection from others.
Eli Manning just retired, told the fans he loves them and called the NY fans unique. A lot of fans are giving him grief for that. HE DIDN'T THANK US! They said. HE CALLED US UNIQUE (AKA CRAZY). They said. Forgetting the fact he said he loves them. Calebrities can never do enough to placate the fanatical observer. We are all fanatical observers.
So fanatical observers who are false idols judging celebrities to be false idols.... we're all just human. The failings and the successes are just noise. If you know someone closely you know not to listen to noise. You trust your feelings. None of us knew Kobe. Even from interviews or documentaries you never knew the man. To me he was just a man. Like David Stern. Like my friend. Was he blessed with otherworldly gifts? Yes. More blessed than most. He had a good life. A very very good life. Did he have moments of doubt and depression? I have no idea. I assume he did. As we all do. As my friend did. There is no happy way to die.