TripleThreat wrote:smackeddog wrote:So, would you consider handing out contracts in 2020 instead of holding out until 2021?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Chiozza
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chiozch01.html
Chiozza is a restricted free agent and with FlatEarther Irving always hurt, the Nets will have a different view of his value
His listed height is probably a bit generous. He can read the court and make the right pass at the right time. He looks like he can manage game flow and pace. He's got limitations aside from height ( thus why he might available in the first place)
Kid has big brass balls. I think the NY fanbase will embrace a lunchpail type like this. He can help this team.
This is not a great year for the draft and/or free agency. I think Paul Millsap should be the primary target but won't sign here. I just don't see the Knicks having a chance at Fred V or Harris, much less Ingram.
I'm at the point now where the Knicks have hit rock bottom. Before people can talk about future rings, there needs to be a basic return to fundamental team basketball.
I fear Fred V will be Chris Childs part deux
Panos wrote:TripleThreat wrote:smackeddog wrote:So, would you consider handing out contracts in 2020 instead of holding out until 2021?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Chiozza
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chiozch01.html
Chiozza is a restricted free agent and with FlatEarther Irving always hurt, the Nets will have a different view of his value
His listed height is probably a bit generous. He can read the court and make the right pass at the right time. He looks like he can manage game flow and pace. He's got limitations aside from height ( thus why he might available in the first place)
Kid has big brass balls. I think the NY fanbase will embrace a lunchpail type like this. He can help this team.
This is not a great year for the draft and/or free agency. I think Paul Millsap should be the primary target but won't sign here. I just don't see the Knicks having a chance at Fred V or Harris, much less Ingram.
I'm at the point now where the Knicks have hit rock bottom. Before people can talk about future rings, there needs to be a basic return to fundamental team basketball.
I fear Fred V will be Chris Childs part deux
I'll take it! Chris Childs was a solid player. He wasn't flashy. But if we can find a way to plug in a solid placeholder at the PG spot, and let the impact come from other skilled players like RJ, Mitchell and whoever we draft- and then perhaps have Frank N or Knox develop into a solid player, that has the makings of an 8 seed - which is a start.
Panos wrote:TripleThreat wrote:smackeddog wrote:So, would you consider handing out contracts in 2020 instead of holding out until 2021?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Chiozza
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chiozch01.html
Chiozza is a restricted free agent and with FlatEarther Irving always hurt, the Nets will have a different view of his value
His listed height is probably a bit generous. He can read the court and make the right pass at the right time. He looks like he can manage game flow and pace. He's got limitations aside from height ( thus why he might available in the first place)
Kid has big brass balls. I think the NY fanbase will embrace a lunchpail type like this. He can help this team.
This is not a great year for the draft and/or free agency. I think Paul Millsap should be the primary target but won't sign here. I just don't see the Knicks having a chance at Fred V or Harris, much less Ingram.
I'm at the point now where the Knicks have hit rock bottom. Before people can talk about future rings, there needs to be a basic return to fundamental team basketball.
I fear Fred V will be Chris Childs part deux
Ha, as much as I've been in favor of considering signing him, I've secretly been fearing he'd turn out to be Chris Childs part 2.
(I did actually like Chris Childs, seem to remember him being a good defender and making some clutch shots in the playoffs, but not for big money!)
I don't think Childs was ever at the point FVV is now. VanVleet is a championship starter who can shoot, defend, and make plays. He can play effectively on or off the ball as he's proven next to Lowry. He's already a top 50 player, so he's really out of the league of someone like Childs.
Knixkik wrote:I don't think Childs was ever at the point FVV is now. VanVleet is a championship starter who can shoot, defend, and make plays. He can play effectively on or off the ball as he's proven next to Lowry. He's already a top 50 player, so he's really out of the league of someone like Childs.
Top 50 player? Not for me.
He is a high level role player. Good on Toronto, probably not so good on Knicks cause of expectations.
Van Vleet made his mark next to Leonard, Marc Gasol, Sikkim and Lowery. Good for him and hope he gets paid well!
Just not here and not now.
franco12 wrote:Panos wrote:TripleThreat wrote:smackeddog wrote:So, would you consider handing out contracts in 2020 instead of holding out until 2021?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Chiozza
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chiozch01.html
Chiozza is a restricted free agent and with FlatEarther Irving always hurt, the Nets will have a different view of his value
His listed height is probably a bit generous. He can read the court and make the right pass at the right time. He looks like he can manage game flow and pace. He's got limitations aside from height ( thus why he might available in the first place)
Kid has big brass balls. I think the NY fanbase will embrace a lunchpail type like this. He can help this team.
This is not a great year for the draft and/or free agency. I think Paul Millsap should be the primary target but won't sign here. I just don't see the Knicks having a chance at Fred V or Harris, much less Ingram.
I'm at the point now where the Knicks have hit rock bottom. Before people can talk about future rings, there needs to be a basic return to fundamental team basketball.
I fear Fred V will be Chris Childs part deux
I'll take it! Chris Childs was a solid player. He wasn't flashy. But if we can find a way to plug in a solid placeholder at the PG spot, and let the impact come from other skilled players like RJ, Mitchell and whoever we draft- and then perhaps have Frank N or Knox develop into a solid player, that has the makings of an 8 seed - which is a start.
No thanks. Not for the money he's likely going to get.
martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:I don't think Childs was ever at the point FVV is now. VanVleet is a championship starter who can shoot, defend, and make plays. He can play effectively on or off the ball as he's proven next to Lowry. He's already a top 50 player, so he's really out of the league of someone like Childs.
Top 50 player? Not for me.
He is a high level role player. Good on Toronto, probably not so good on Knicks cause of expectations.
Expectations will change i agree. It will be a challenge. But how many players average 18 points and 7 assist and are also a good 3pt shooter and defender? Add to that championship experience and youth and there's no way he's not top 50. For some context, ESPN just ranked the top 50 players in Orlando and have him listed at 30.
Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:I don't think Childs was ever at the point FVV is now. VanVleet is a championship starter who can shoot, defend, and make plays. He can play effectively on or off the ball as he's proven next to Lowry. He's already a top 50 player, so he's really out of the league of someone like Childs.
Top 50 player? Not for me.
He is a high level role player. Good on Toronto, probably not so good on Knicks cause of expectations.
Expectations will change i agree. It will be a challenge. But how many players average 18 points and 7 assist and are also a good 3pt shooter and defender? Add to that championship experience and youth and there's no way he's not top 50. For some context, ESPN just ranked the top 50 players in Orlando and have him listed at 30.
Devon Booker, Ja Morant, SGA, De'Aaron Fox area all listed AFTER VanVleet for some additional context. I mean, it's a list. I am not sure why we care how ESPN is ranking guys who are in Orlando.
Last year FVV was at best the 4th best player on the championship team and maybe he is 3rd best on his team right now. Lowery takes a lot of heat off of him. On the Knicks, you are asking him to step up his role and are paying him additional money to do so at the same time. Can he? Unproven.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2946...
martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:martin wrote:Knixkik wrote:I don't think Childs was ever at the point FVV is now. VanVleet is a championship starter who can shoot, defend, and make plays. He can play effectively on or off the ball as he's proven next to Lowry. He's already a top 50 player, so he's really out of the league of someone like Childs.
Top 50 player? Not for me.
He is a high level role player. Good on Toronto, probably not so good on Knicks cause of expectations.
Expectations will change i agree. It will be a challenge. But how many players average 18 points and 7 assist and are also a good 3pt shooter and defender? Add to that championship experience and youth and there's no way he's not top 50. For some context, ESPN just ranked the top 50 players in Orlando and have him listed at 30.
Devon Booker, Ja Morant, SGA, De'Aaron Fox area all listed AFTER VanVleet for some additional context. I mean, it's a list. I am not sure why we care how ESPN is ranking guys who are in Orlando.
Last year FVV was at best the 4th best player on the championship team and maybe he is 3rd best on his team right now. Lowery takes a lot of heat off of him. On the Knicks, you are asking him to step up his role and are paying him additional money to do so at the same time. Can he? Unproven.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2946...
Completely unproven, no doubt. Barrett would have to make a huge jump and still needs to become the go-to guy eventually. FVV can't be the best player. He needs to be 3rd most likely. But he's also still coming into his prime and maybe has another level to hit. But his skillset as a 3pt shooter, defensive player, and playmaker fits so well alongside Barrett and Mitch.
Fred is 6 foot and 26.5 years old. Kudos to him and his talent and no doubt he can help about any team. On Toronto he has both Siakim and Lowery who are both playmakers. The kid is a very good shooter!
At this moment in time Frank is a decent playmaker and top tier defender. He only turns 22 this week. He’d be a senior in College.
Do I hand him the starting job? Not based on what I have seen to date but we did see some very good incremental improvement that looked like “breaking out”. Not Linsanity type of break out like a movie, but he was clearly improving.
Some of you are frustrated by Frank for various reasons. I get it. But to think FVV at 20mm per might be reactive. We need a shooter at the 2. But I’m not throwing that kind of money at 6 foot SG.
Nalod wrote:Fred is 6 foot and 26.5 years old. Kudos to him and his talent and no doubt he can help about any team. On Toronto he has both Siakim and Lowery who are both playmakers. The kid is a very good shooter!
At this moment in time Frank is a decent playmaker and top tier defender. He only turns 22 this week. He’d be a senior in College.
Do I hand him the starting job? Not based on what I have seen to date but we did see some very good incremental improvement that looked like “breaking out”. Not Linsanity type of break out like a movie, but he was clearly improving.
Some of you are frustrated by Frank for various reasons. I get it. But to think FVV at 20mm per might be reactive. We need a shooter at the 2. But I’m not throwing that kind of money at 6 foot SG.
Frank needs to dramatically improve as a shooter. You can't start Mitch, Barrett, and Frank together and expect to win in today's game. If you are starting Barrett and Mitch than you need 3 guys who can keep a defense honest. Frank just hasn't improved as a shooter yet.
Knixkik wrote:Nalod wrote:Fred is 6 foot and 26.5 years old. Kudos to him and his talent and no doubt he can help about any team. On Toronto he has both Siakim and Lowery who are both playmakers. The kid is a very good shooter!
At this moment in time Frank is a decent playmaker and top tier defender. He only turns 22 this week. He’d be a senior in College.
Do I hand him the starting job? Not based on what I have seen to date but we did see some very good incremental improvement that looked like “breaking out”. Not Linsanity type of break out like a movie, but he was clearly improving.
Some of you are frustrated by Frank for various reasons. I get it. But to think FVV at 20mm per might be reactive. We need a shooter at the 2. But I’m not throwing that kind of money at 6 foot SG.
Frank needs to dramatically improve as a shooter. You can't start Mitch, Barrett, and Frank together and expect to win in today's game. If you are starting Barrett and Mitch than you need 3 guys who can keep a defense honest. Frank just hasn't improved as a shooter yet.
Like I said, I’m not handing him the starting job. Young players rarely wake up one day and light the world on fire. Its incremental. It was happening. We can talk about 4 coaches, 3 presidents and injury vs. the velocity of his improvement and not come up with a straight answer.
If you believe his development was thwarted by coach/roster/front office dysfunction then thats one view. Does Leon believe that and does Perrin and Perry think so? Someone trading for him might believe that.
What does a “New fresh start” to another team accomplish that he can’t get here? New coach, new methods and new players. THats likely in Knickland anyway.
IM asking more questions than I have answers for.
