So he got dropped by James Harden...it happens. But get up, crawl towards him, do something...just about anything except just sit there and complain to the ref.
I hated that trade when it happened, I never liked him as a player so admittedly I probably had a bias before he even came here even though I tried not to.
But he's everything I thought he would be, in a bad way. I couldn't then and can't believe still that people thought that was a good trade and that he was some sort of building block. I literally don't see anything, not one thing to like about his game or his attitude.
His skills are one thing. His body language is another thing. I won't say he isn't skilled at hooping. But he kinda reminds me of a marbury-type. Remember when Steph wrote "All Alone" on his kicks? I think Dennis Smith is cut from the same cloth as Marbury. Not batshit crazy no. Actually comes across OK on his interviews. But when i watch him on th ebasketball court i don't see a guy who has a "mamba mentality" or even cares that much about wins. I see a guy who is happy if he plays well. And I don't see a guy who really wants to win games that it kills him to lose. Maybe i'm guilty of looking too closely for flaws, but there's just something i don't like about him as a 5-on-5 NBA player. I get the feeling he is about his stats and looking good mainly. Which... everyone cares about to some degree true.... but he just has this vibe to him i don't fully love. Comparatively I love love love Payton's vibe. Love what he did to Jae. And i love Frankie's quiet determination. I don't like anything about DSJ's vibe.
Sambakick wrote:His skills are one thing. His body language is another thing. I won't say he isn't skilled at hooping. But he kinda reminds me of a marbury-type. Remember when Steph wrote "All Alone" on his kicks? I think Dennis Smith is cut from the same cloth as Marbury. Not batshit crazy no. Actually comes across OK on his interviews. But when i watch him on th ebasketball court i don't see a guy who has a "mamba mentality" or even cares that much about wins. I see a guy who is happy if he plays well. And I don't see a guy who really wants to win games that it kills him to lose. Maybe i'm guilty of looking too closely for flaws, but there's just something i don't like about him as a 5-on-5 NBA player. I get the feeling he is about his stats and looking good mainly. Which... everyone cares about to some degree true.... but he just has this vibe to him i don't fully love. Comparatively I love love love Payton's vibe. Love what he did to Jae. And i love Frankie's quiet determination. I don't like anything about DSJ's vibe.
man this is exactly where I am. I root for the kid but there are so many SMH moments...
He is just really disappointing. Obviously can't shoot, but mainly because he seems to be one of those guys who always skated by on talent and lacks the drive, motivation, work ethic, attitude, bball IQ, etc to be a good NBA player. Wish we got guys who gave a crap and worked hard.
Kind of unfair to Marbury. He was an elite talent for a very long time.
Smith is just not focused, ever. Most nights he steps onto the floor he's as athletic as anyone. He should be destroying people and getting to the rim at will. He just seems a step slow and disengaged every time he's on the floor. He dribbles the ball too high and always seems to be very careless and not locked in.
They also need real people to work on development internally.
It's interesting that the Knicks had Chris Brinkley working for them and let him go. Now he trains just about every big name player in the league. Speaks volumes about why folks never seem to improve.
I think our guys also don't have the work ethic and interest in the game to go grab a LJ, Clyde, Houston etc and take a real interest in improving.
I don't see how DSjr can be on our roster next year. Trade him or release him.
Assumptions. how some of you get to them is amazing. How do you know who works with who, and if some of the legends can actually teach it.
Where do we get the notion they don't care? Not trying? etc? These guys are the elite of the elite and there is such a fine line that pro coaches can't figure somethings out, let alone a fan who is not in the gym, or punching in with who practicing and when.
Sometimes these guys just don't have that last bit that cuts it. Results matter and contracts give you time or not. All we know is they are not cutting it so it must be they are lazy, not smart, bad coaches, not smart to ask clyde, need to go to Gleague, need to lift weights, need to lose weight, need to gain weight, need a new motor,, need to play streetball, need surgery........Needs a less distracting hair cut!!!!
and some of you don't even go to games in person!!!
Why do we need to demonize Dennis now? Cuz he ruined our trade? Once again, we need blame to deflect our fandom frustration? Dennis is fighting for his career. His dream. The hard work that he put in. The family that might depend on him. Its a lot for a young man. He might have peaked, his body now mature is now built for power then quickness. Sometimes no matter how hard you try the genetics just can't overcome it.
Im rooting for him. I don't know if he is a good kid or lazy just "Skating by". Maybe that matters but I don't know him.
Marbles was talented and had demonstrated himself as a bonafide NBA allstar. He was not evil. His ego was out of check. He meant well often but when his skills eroded he did not evolve until he grew up a bit.
franco12 wrote:I don't see how DSjr can be on our roster next year. Trade him or release him.
We should be able to get a second rounder for him. Build up the cupboard anyway possible.
We all have Knicks who we like and Knicks who we like a little less. Nothing wrong with that! You can root for a guy to play well (because he is on your team) and then forget about him the moment he is traded. It's all OK! Part of being a fan. I root for all knicks to do well, even the ones i don't really love. Not every Knick engenders the same fandom.
MS wrote:Kind of unfair to Marbury. He was an elite talent for a very long time.Smith is just not focused, ever. Most nights he steps onto the floor he's as athletic as anyone. He should be destroying people and getting to the rim at will. He just seems a step slow and disengaged every time he's on the floor. He dribbles the ball too high and always seems to be very careless and not locked in.
They also need real people to work on development internally.
It's interesting that the Knicks had Chris Brinkley working for them and let him go. Now he trains just about every big name player in the league. Speaks volumes about why folks never seem to improve.
I think our guys also don't have the work ethic and interest in the game to go grab a LJ, Clyde, Houston etc and take a real interest in improving.
I agree about Brinkley. Also, they got rid of their shooting coach when the McKinsey purge happened. Seems like this grip could benefit from Hopla being on the staff again.
Knixkik wrote:franco12 wrote:I don't see how DSjr can be on our roster next year. Trade him or release him.
We should be able to get a second rounder for him. Build up the cupboard anyway possible.
How many 2nd rounders are better than DSJ..not many, and despite his down falls (had 7 steals last night), he's still better than frank.
DSJ needs better leadership around him, and he needs to be around players who take winning serious.
I blame the franchise for most of the reason our young guys are below avg players and super inconsistent.
We have no system, the young players have no role (other than Payton and Randle) has had 3 coaches(Rick, fizdale, miller), and he has played with about 28 different players in the last 12 months, and not to mention family death, and minor injuries.
can't single out DSJ when the entire young crop looks like trash on most nights
The McKinsey thing was 2013-14. Lets say that DS jr shooting woes are not from a lack of having that guy 6 years ago.
Chris Brickley wanted to work with other players outside the team. It thought it was kind of mutual parting as chris wanted to brand himself and make more money.
The narrative is "Knicks fired him". No, he wanted to do things outside the knicks realm and like most companies they saw it as a conflict of interest. He is now a trainer to the stars, doing clothes, and has a deal with Puma. If he was so good and so inclined to work with a team he would be. He is doing what he wants to be doing.
Not everything knicks do is stupid. SHyt just happens. The McKinsey thing was ignorant but it was born from frustration that the team was not progressing.
Good idea, awful execution. Thats a knick benchmark for sure!
knicks1248 wrote:Knixkik wrote:franco12 wrote:I don't see how DSjr can be on our roster next year. Trade him or release him.
We should be able to get a second rounder for him. Build up the cupboard anyway possible.
How many 2nd rounders are better than DSJ..not many, and despite his down falls (had 7 steals last night), he's still better than frank.
DSJ needs better leadership around him, and he needs to be around players who take winning serious.
I blame the franchise for most of the reason our young guys are below avg players and super inconsistent.
We have no system, the young players have no role (other than Payton and Randle) has had 3 coaches(Rick, fizdale, miller), and he has played with about 28 different players in the last 12 months, and not to mention family death, and minor injuries.
can't single out DSJ when the entire young crop looks like trash on most nights
Frank had 14 points (4-of-5 from 3-point range), six rebounds, four assists, four steals and three blocks against the Mavericks. Plus, we actually won that game. No need to cherry pick stats to crap on Frank. They've both been disappointments. I hope DSJ balls out the rest of the season, but let's not sugar coat things. The effort night to night has not come close to his athletic potential. Even when Marbury was having bad nights, you could tell he still had that eff it mentality. It might have led to some horrid shooting nights, but he wanted to win. Now, DSJ wasn't close to the prospect Marbury was. Marbury made Drew Barry look like a pro prospect at Georgia Tech. That's how much of a force he was in his lone season in college. DSJ wasn't that type of player at NC State.
BigDaddyG wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Knixkik wrote:franco12 wrote:I don't see how DSjr can be on our roster next year. Trade him or release him.
We should be able to get a second rounder for him. Build up the cupboard anyway possible.
How many 2nd rounders are better than DSJ..not many, and despite his down falls (had 7 steals last night), he's still better than frank.
DSJ needs better leadership around him, and he needs to be around players who take winning serious.
I blame the franchise for most of the reason our young guys are below avg players and super inconsistent.
We have no system, the young players have no role (other than Payton and Randle) has had 3 coaches(Rick, fizdale, miller), and he has played with about 28 different players in the last 12 months, and not to mention family death, and minor injuries.
can't single out DSJ when the entire young crop looks like trash on most nights
Frank had 14 points (4-of-5 from 3-point range), six rebounds, four assists, four steals and three blocks against the Mavericks. Plus, we actually won that game. No need to cherry pick stats to crap on Frank. They've both been disappointments. I hope DSJ balls out the rest of the season, but let's not sugar coat things. The effort night to night has not come close to his athletic potential. Even when Marbury was having bad nights, you could tell he still had that eff it mentality. It might have led to some horrid shooting nights, but he wanted to win. Now, DSJ wasn't close to the prospect Marbury was. Marbury made Drew Barry look like a pro prospect at Georgia Tech. That's how much of a force he was in his lone season in college. DSJ wasn't that type of player at NC State.
Dude that was almost 2 months ago...lol, he has a solid game one or twice a month, and i only single out frank because they are both PG.
I hope you can at least agree that the development is just about non existent over the last 10 yrs..
Marbury is born and raised in Coney Island, DSJ is from slow ass North Carolina, and frank isn't even from this country, mentalities are completely different.
BigDaddyG wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Knixkik wrote:franco12 wrote:I don't see how DSjr can be on our roster next year. Trade him or release him.
We should be able to get a second rounder for him. Build up the cupboard anyway possible.
How many 2nd rounders are better than DSJ..not many, and despite his down falls (had 7 steals last night), he's still better than frank.
DSJ needs better leadership around him, and he needs to be around players who take winning serious.
I blame the franchise for most of the reason our young guys are below avg players and super inconsistent.
We have no system, the young players have no role (other than Payton and Randle) has had 3 coaches(Rick, fizdale, miller), and he has played with about 28 different players in the last 12 months, and not to mention family death, and minor injuries.
can't single out DSJ when the entire young crop looks like trash on most nights
Frank had 14 points (4-of-5 from 3-point range), six rebounds, four assists, four steals and three blocks against the Mavericks. Plus, we actually won that game. No need to cherry pick stats to crap on Frank. They've both been disappointments. I hope DSJ balls out the rest of the season, but let's not sugar coat things. The effort night to night has not come close to his athletic potential. Even when Marbury was having bad nights, you could tell he still had that eff it mentality. It might have led to some horrid shooting nights, but he wanted to win. Now, DSJ wasn't close to the prospect Marbury was. Marbury made Drew Barry look like a pro prospect at Georgia Tech. That's how much of a force he was in his lone season in college. DSJ wasn't that type of player at NC State.
Dennis after his jr year in HS was the no. 1 HS prospect. He blew out his ACL. Freaky he as that extra ligament thing and he came back fast. Like Adrian Peterson fast.
If saw his last 10 games in league play in college you started to see the potential. The problem is his back. The problem is his oblique. The problem is his core. The problem is he has his man body.
As a fan I looking at him an in the last three years he has morphed into a large person:
Has he grown from young Steve Francis into Marshon Lynch? This kid at 21 is not the same. Some players get fat, some get injured, some get hurt, and some grow to be Marcus Smart! Shyt happens.
The far away look has me concerned. Kid looks miserable. Like he is watching his dream fade away.
knicks1248 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Knixkik wrote:franco12 wrote:I don't see how DSjr can be on our roster next year. Trade him or release him.
We should be able to get a second rounder for him. Build up the cupboard anyway possible.
How many 2nd rounders are better than DSJ..not many, and despite his down falls (had 7 steals last night), he's still better than frank.
DSJ needs better leadership around him, and he needs to be around players who take winning serious.
I blame the franchise for most of the reason our young guys are below avg players and super inconsistent.
We have no system, the young players have no role (other than Payton and Randle) has had 3 coaches(Rick, fizdale, miller), and he has played with about 28 different players in the last 12 months, and not to mention family death, and minor injuries.
can't single out DSJ when the entire young crop looks like trash on most nights
Frank had 14 points (4-of-5 from 3-point range), six rebounds, four assists, four steals and three blocks against the Mavericks. Plus, we actually won that game. No need to cherry pick stats to crap on Frank. They've both been disappointments. I hope DSJ balls out the rest of the season, but let's not sugar coat things. The effort night to night has not come close to his athletic potential. Even when Marbury was having bad nights, you could tell he still had that eff it mentality. It might have led to some horrid shooting nights, but he wanted to win. Now, DSJ wasn't close to the prospect Marbury was. Marbury made Drew Barry look like a pro prospect at Georgia Tech. That's how much of a force he was in his lone season in college. DSJ wasn't that type of player at NC State.
Dude that was almost 2 months ago...lol, he has a solid game one or twice a month, and i only single out frank because they are both PG.
I hope you can at least agree that the development is just about non existent over the last 10 yrs..
Marbury is born and raised in Coney Island, DSJ is from slow ass North Carolina, and frank isn't even from this country, mentalities are completely different.
Michael Jordan is from NC and Kobe grew up in Italy. I wouldn't link a player's mentality to where he grew up. The development hasn't been as good as I would liked. You're right, the front office, coaching staff etc. resets every other year and it hasn't been conducive to development. I think we're going to see the same thing with the next regime, but I'm hoping I'm wrong.
BigDaddyG wrote:knicks1248 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Knixkik wrote:franco12 wrote:I don't see how DSjr can be on our roster next year. Trade him or release him.
We should be able to get a second rounder for him. Build up the cupboard anyway possible.
How many 2nd rounders are better than DSJ..not many, and despite his down falls (had 7 steals last night), he's still better than frank.
DSJ needs better leadership around him, and he needs to be around players who take winning serious.
I blame the franchise for most of the reason our young guys are below avg players and super inconsistent.
We have no system, the young players have no role (other than Payton and Randle) has had 3 coaches(Rick, fizdale, miller), and he has played with about 28 different players in the last 12 months, and not to mention family death, and minor injuries.
can't single out DSJ when the entire young crop looks like trash on most nights
Frank had 14 points (4-of-5 from 3-point range), six rebounds, four assists, four steals and three blocks against the Mavericks. Plus, we actually won that game. No need to cherry pick stats to crap on Frank. They've both been disappointments. I hope DSJ balls out the rest of the season, but let's not sugar coat things. The effort night to night has not come close to his athletic potential. Even when Marbury was having bad nights, you could tell he still had that eff it mentality. It might have led to some horrid shooting nights, but he wanted to win. Now, DSJ wasn't close to the prospect Marbury was. Marbury made Drew Barry look like a pro prospect at Georgia Tech. That's how much of a force he was in his lone season in college. DSJ wasn't that type of player at NC State.
Dude that was almost 2 months ago...lol, he has a solid game one or twice a month, and i only single out frank because they are both PG.
I hope you can at least agree that the development is just about non existent over the last 10 yrs..
Marbury is born and raised in Coney Island, DSJ is from slow ass North Carolina, and frank isn't even from this country, mentalities are completely different.
Michael Jordan is from NC and Kobe grew up in Italy. I wouldn't link a player's mentality to where he grew up. The development hasn't been as good as I would liked. You're right, the front office, coaching staff etc. resets every other year and it hasn't been conducive to development. I think we're going to see the same thing with the next regime, but I'm hoping I'm wrong.
Are you kidding me?
The same thing that Phil and mills were doing?
Bad to sub par Drafting
Demanding your coaches run the triangle
Over paying for role players
Signing the wrong role players
Building unbalance rosters
Hiring in experience coaches
Having a roster full of mediocre young players that can't shoot
Having a roster full of mediocre vets that do the same thing
Building zero relationship with the players (especially your best players)
Rebooting your roster every 6 month
Barely every using your own g league affiliate
Changing coaches every 14 months
Bad trades.
forced trades
waiving every other player who wants out.
The last 6 yrs were worse then the Layden and Thomas era combined.
knicks1248 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:knicks1248 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Knixkik wrote:franco12 wrote:I don't see how DSjr can be on our roster next year. Trade him or release him.
We should be able to get a second rounder for him. Build up the cupboard anyway possible.
How many 2nd rounders are better than DSJ..not many, and despite his down falls (had 7 steals last night), he's still better than frank.
DSJ needs better leadership around him, and he needs to be around players who take winning serious.
I blame the franchise for most of the reason our young guys are below avg players and super inconsistent.
We have no system, the young players have no role (other than Payton and Randle) has had 3 coaches(Rick, fizdale, miller), and he has played with about 28 different players in the last 12 months, and not to mention family death, and minor injuries.
can't single out DSJ when the entire young crop looks like trash on most nights
Frank had 14 points (4-of-5 from 3-point range), six rebounds, four assists, four steals and three blocks against the Mavericks. Plus, we actually won that game. No need to cherry pick stats to crap on Frank. They've both been disappointments. I hope DSJ balls out the rest of the season, but let's not sugar coat things. The effort night to night has not come close to his athletic potential. Even when Marbury was having bad nights, you could tell he still had that eff it mentality. It might have led to some horrid shooting nights, but he wanted to win. Now, DSJ wasn't close to the prospect Marbury was. Marbury made Drew Barry look like a pro prospect at Georgia Tech. That's how much of a force he was in his lone season in college. DSJ wasn't that type of player at NC State.
Dude that was almost 2 months ago...lol, he has a solid game one or twice a month, and i only single out frank because they are both PG.
I hope you can at least agree that the development is just about non existent over the last 10 yrs..
Marbury is born and raised in Coney Island, DSJ is from slow ass North Carolina, and frank isn't even from this country, mentalities are completely different.
Michael Jordan is from NC and Kobe grew up in Italy. I wouldn't link a player's mentality to where he grew up. The development hasn't been as good as I would liked. You're right, the front office, coaching staff etc. resets every other year and it hasn't been conducive to development. I think we're going to see the same thing with the next regime, but I'm hoping I'm wrong.
Are you kidding me?
The same thing that Phil and mills were doing?
Bad to sub par Drafting
Demanding your coaches run the triangle
Over paying for role players
Signing the wrong role players
Building unbalance rosters
Hiring in experience coaches
Having a roster full of mediocre young players that can't shoot
Having a roster full of mediocre vets that do the same thing
Building zero relationship with the players (especially your best players)
Rebooting your roster every 6 month
Barely every using your own g league affiliate
Changing coaches every 14 months
Bad trades.
forced trades
waiving every other player who wants out.
The last 6 yrs were worse then the Layden and Thomas era combined.
So far there are some similarities. Hiring a guy that has no experience in the job he will be doing. Possibly putting an msg lifer in place as second in command. Possibly choosing a coach because you have a relationship with him and not because he is the most qualified. Houston getting the gm job and Thibs getting the coaching job would be business as usual for the Knicks. Right now Houston and Thibs are just rumored to be getting those positions. Berman also said Houst had already been promoted so maybe there is nothing to it. I don’t think it’s a stretch to worry that it will be business as usual. Let’s hope this time things are different.
I feel sorry for Dennis - being injured and having family members die is tough no matter what age-
Marbury was a legendary talent that put up huge numbers- if Dennis had Marbury's 1st 3 yrs we'd be a different team- I still see potential in DSjr- he's going to have to earn it all over again and also be in the right spot- I hope it works out - I like his talent -
When athletes goof up, and then have a tragedy and or injury happen the media still dwells on the old mistakes and brushes over what the person has had to deal with- DSjr may have been a primadonna at some point but right now he's down. It would be nice to see his fortune turn around - I can see him evolving late like Kyle Lowry- because he realizes he has to and he can.
MS wrote:Kind of unfair to Marbury. He was an elite talent for a very long time.
He was amazing - he pulled his power card too early off the Twolves- the grass was never greener - those who remember know him and KG together would have put them both over the top- Phoenix almost beat the Spurs w Marbs and here we know the story- injured H20, Larry Brown and Eddy Curry- Pringles playing Duhon ahead of him- the end is worse than GOT season 8 but in his prime he was an all time talent.
CrushAlot wrote:knicks1248 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:knicks1248 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:knicks1248 wrote:Knixkik wrote:franco12 wrote:I don't see how DSjr can be on our roster next year. Trade him or release him.
We should be able to get a second rounder for him. Build up the cupboard anyway possible.
How many 2nd rounders are better than DSJ..not many, and despite his down falls (had 7 steals last night), he's still better than frank.
DSJ needs better leadership around him, and he needs to be around players who take winning serious.
I blame the franchise for most of the reason our young guys are below avg players and super inconsistent.
We have no system, the young players have no role (other than Payton and Randle) has had 3 coaches(Rick, fizdale, miller), and he has played with about 28 different players in the last 12 months, and not to mention family death, and minor injuries.
can't single out DSJ when the entire young crop looks like trash on most nights
Frank had 14 points (4-of-5 from 3-point range), six rebounds, four assists, four steals and three blocks against the Mavericks. Plus, we actually won that game. No need to cherry pick stats to crap on Frank. They've both been disappointments. I hope DSJ balls out the rest of the season, but let's not sugar coat things. The effort night to night has not come close to his athletic potential. Even when Marbury was having bad nights, you could tell he still had that eff it mentality. It might have led to some horrid shooting nights, but he wanted to win. Now, DSJ wasn't close to the prospect Marbury was. Marbury made Drew Barry look like a pro prospect at Georgia Tech. That's how much of a force he was in his lone season in college. DSJ wasn't that type of player at NC State.
Dude that was almost 2 months ago...lol, he has a solid game one or twice a month, and i only single out frank because they are both PG.
I hope you can at least agree that the development is just about non existent over the last 10 yrs..
Marbury is born and raised in Coney Island, DSJ is from slow ass North Carolina, and frank isn't even from this country, mentalities are completely different.
Michael Jordan is from NC and Kobe grew up in Italy. I wouldn't link a player's mentality to where he grew up. The development hasn't been as good as I would liked. You're right, the front office, coaching staff etc. resets every other year and it hasn't been conducive to development. I think we're going to see the same thing with the next regime, but I'm hoping I'm wrong.
Are you kidding me?
The same thing that Phil and mills were doing?
Bad to sub par Drafting
Demanding your coaches run the triangle
Over paying for role players
Signing the wrong role players
Building unbalance rosters
Hiring in experience coaches
Having a roster full of mediocre young players that can't shoot
Having a roster full of mediocre vets that do the same thing
Building zero relationship with the players (especially your best players)
Rebooting your roster every 6 month
Barely every using your own g league affiliate
Changing coaches every 14 months
Bad trades.
forced trades
waiving every other player who wants out.
The last 6 yrs were worse then the Layden and Thomas era combined.
So far there are some similarities. Hiring a guy that has no experience in the job he will be doing. Possibly putting an msg lifer in place as second in command. Possibly choosing a coach because you have a relationship with him and not because he is the most qualified. Houston getting the gm job and Thibs getting the coaching job would be business as usual for the Knicks. Right now Houston and Thibs are just rumored to be getting those positions. Berman also said Houst had already been promoted so maybe there is nothing to it. I don’t think it’s a stretch to worry that it will be business as usual. Let’s hope this time things are different.
A coach that has had NBA success is what we haven't had since MDA, and did people shut him down when he flopped in NY and LA.
Thibs has and Identity coming in, and the roster has a whole lot of flexibility to bring in players that fit his style.
Thibs system turned Rose into a MVP, so you never know what it can do for DSJ
