Knicks · The Atlantic: What NBA scouts and the numbers say about Knicks guard Frank Ntilikina’s future (page 1)
https://theathletic.com/1786104/2020/05/...
Scout’s Take
NBA scout: I like him a lot. It just seems like he’s never gotten a fair shake in New York because they expected something different … He’s one of the best point guard defenders in the league … I think he can still be a starter. You pair him with a Luka (Doncic) almost.Western Conference scout: I’m a Frank fan. I think he has a role in the league. He’s a versatile defender. He needs to be put in position where he can succeed. You can’t start him at the point and expect All-Star production, which is what the fans want … I almost feel like he’s going to be your fourth or fifth guy in whatever lineup you put out there but he’s going to keep everyone connected … Glue guy … What’s his position? More of a three that can defend and handle the ball, not high level shooter … Can defend the two but has issues offensively … He has a role in the league … Maybe as bench guy on a really good team and provides value as a defender … On a bad team where expectations are a little unrealistic it’s almost like he’s set up for failure or to not meet expectations … If Knicks move him or let him walk, teams will take a chance … If he could make a corner 3 then I could see him as a 3-and-D guy … Maybe his role moving forward is a high-level defender off the bench that you can stick him in the corner. That could be his calling … Depends on coach and system to find the right place to play.
He does have age on his side granted, and personally I’d love to see him develop into a part of our starting backcourt. Is he best at point? Can he substantially develop his perimeter offence this off season to become a 2 / 3&D? I hope on both accounts.
That said I do hope we draft / trade for yet another PG of the future tho...
His progress in his 3rd year stack up against guys like Kyle Lowry, Kemba Walker, Goran Dragic and Spencer Dinwiddie, even though he's two to three years younger. Those guys turned out to be pretty good players and I think Frank will be too.
ccinflushing wrote:I think Frank's progressing fine given his injury/team situation. I don't think Fizdale did him any favours, with his wack line-up and rotations and general lack of structure or accountability. Frank has improved his core strength and his handles, as well his playmaking skills. His reads on offense has gotten a lot better and he's generally making the right decisions quicker. He's getting to his spots and is less hesitant about shooting, which has helped his percentage.His progress in his 3rd year stack up against guys like Kyle Lowry, Kemba Walker, Goran Dragic and Spencer Dinwiddie, even though he's two to three years younger. Those guys turned out to be pretty good players and I think Frank will be too.
This is the guy I expect to show up when the next season starts. He's ready...
He's exactly the kind of player we need here. Lock him up, draft the BPA (Pg or otherwise) and just keep working on these kids.
The Video was his finest game. He executed much of what he has been attempting for a good bit of the season.
Potential is as a 3 postion "Igudala" type player eventually. He can play PG and defend it. If he can keep improving the shot he can play.
As a reminder........We are not accustomed to drafting players and thus the past of "we never properly develop players" is true due to inept practices, management impatience, and and a lack of opportunities with blue chip prospects. RJ and KP have been just two we have taken in the top 5.
The residule of changing GM/Presidents/Coaches as frequently as we do is not conducive and its a vicious cycle. KP was a foundational piece and trajic the way it ended and its doubtful the trade returns us a high enough pick to replace him. Back to square one is RJ Barrett who at age 19 really has been exceptional!
Not a Phenom mind you, but a solid blue chip 19 year old.
As for Frank, If that video was a kid in NCAA playing like that most of you would be enticed. Thing is we have 2.5 years of very uneven moments that taint it.
Thus we instead hang our hopes on "Haliburton" and others. Fact is there are no guarantee they will be better than Frank.
"In Leon we Trust......"
fishmike wrote:you extend him to play the Marcus Smart role. Downside is he's a very good 30mpg bench player who covers you at backup PG and in line ups where his defense is impacting the game. Upside is he continues growing into Fiba Frank and is our starting PG for the next decade.He's exactly the kind of player we need here. Lock him up, draft the BPA (Pg or otherwise) and just keep working on these kids.
He has improved. He is a very high character kid with a great work ethic. Even if he maxes out as a good rotation player he is worth signing and keeping.
I took a look at his stats because I remember he started taking some of the technical free throws towards the end of this season. He raised his free throw shooting percentage by 12 percent. All of his shooting percentages went up. Seems like keeper.
Just seeing a lot of Rodman recently. There was an era where defense was a thing.
GT2AM wrote:I get it. it's not even. Because Defense has to be a full team effort and 1 player can go off and take over a game on Offense.
Just seeing a lot of Rodman recently. There was an era where defense was a thing.
Yeah 90’s Knicks lockdown D!! Personally I’m rooting for Frankie to display a level of consistency that has been absent in his career thus far. Defence aside of course. I see him as an integral part of this roster, but unfortunately not yet the all star PG I crave...
Knickfury11 wrote:GT2AM wrote:I get it. it's not even. Because Defense has to be a full team effort and 1 player can go off and take over a game on Offense.
Just seeing a lot of Rodman recently. There was an era where defense was a thing.Yeah 90’s Knicks lockdown D!! Personally I’m rooting for Frankie to display a level of consistency that has been absent in his career thus far. Defence aside of course. I see him as an integral part of this roster, but unfortunately not yet the all star PG I crave...
He probably will never be an All Star PG. And the Knicks seem to still be searching for their "PG of the Future".
In the last few games of the season they were playing Ntilikina off the ball alot, and that might be his future. But at the end of the Rockets game it came down to a one-on-one one possession game, an MVP in his prime against Frankie's D. We know how it ended. Question is; how should it be appreciated and valued?
Min 20.9 FG %44.7 3P% 38.1 FT% 84.6 RB 1.6 AST 3.3 STL 1.0 PF 2.6 TO 1.0 PTS 8.7
He has essentially turned himself into our best PG by far. If we cannot draft Ball, we need to draft the BPA. I don't want to reach for a PG unless the team really believes the guy is going to be a noticeable improvement over Frank. Now if the BPA is a pg, that is fine, but we need to get the BPA, regardless of position.
TheGame wrote:In the last 10 games for the Knicks, Frank's stat line is:Min 20.9 FG %44.7 3P% 38.1 FT% 84.6 RB 1.6 AST 3.3 STL 1.0 PF 2.6 TO 1.0 PTS 8.7
He has essentially turned himself into our best PG by far. If we cannot draft Ball, we need to draft the BPA. I don't want to reach for a PG unless the team really believes the guy is going to be a noticeable improvement over Frank. Now if the BPA is a pg, that is fine, but we need to get the BPA, regardless of position.
Agree Frankie is our best PG, but look who we have as a like for like comparison! Lol... For me he’s the best defensive guard in the league, with only Derrick White, Matisse Thybulle, Kris Dunn coming close. His defensive qualities far overshadow his playmaking and offensive game though. But if he can raise his offensive game to the standard shown in his last games and continue this consistently? ( for this I’m praying) He will be valued as a “2 way player” at a very high premium.
If Ball / Haliburton/ Cole are not available to us, then I’d like to see us draft quality wings and perimeter shooting ( Nesmith and Bey come to mind ). Pursue Vanvleet etc in FA. I’m fine with BPA but we do need to implement a long term strategy to assemble a competitive roster.
Knickfury11 wrote:TheGame wrote:In the last 10 games for the Knicks, Frank's stat line is:Min 20.9 FG %44.7 3P% 38.1 FT% 84.6 RB 1.6 AST 3.3 STL 1.0 PF 2.6 TO 1.0 PTS 8.7
He has essentially turned himself into our best PG by far. If we cannot draft Ball, we need to draft the BPA. I don't want to reach for a PG unless the team really believes the guy is going to be a noticeable improvement over Frank. Now if the BPA is a pg, that is fine, but we need to get the BPA, regardless of position.
Agree Frankie is our best PG, but look who we have as a like for like comparison! Lol... For me he’s the best defensive guard in the league, with only Derrick White, Matisse Thybulle, Kris Dunn coming close. His defensive qualities far overshadow his playmaking and offensive game though. But if he can raise his offensive game to the standard shown in his last games and continue this consistently? ( for this I’m praying) He will be valued as a “2 way player” at a very high premium.
If Ball / Haliburton/ Cole are not available to us, then I’d like to see us draft quality wings and perimeter shooting ( Nesmith and Bey come to mind ). Pursue Vanvleet etc in FA. I’m fine with BPA but we do need to implement a long term strategy to assemble a competitive roster.
Feel like I am there. Right now Franks seems like a good secondary or complimentary guard for a high level team, or perhaps a solid cog off bench. Just not enough playmaking and breakdown ability. I don't watch Toronto enough to really know the dynamics but Lowery/VanFleet seem to do well together with the other guys in the lineup, whereas VanFleet as the lone starter/guard focal point for a team probably wouldn't work. Frank and someone else would need to be paired in the same way. Realistically Frank would need to get his 3pt shooting to the high 30% range for him to be a quality starter next to someone like Ball/Haliburton.
martin wrote:Knickfury11 wrote:TheGame wrote:In the last 10 games for the Knicks, Frank's stat line is:Min 20.9 FG %44.7 3P% 38.1 FT% 84.6 RB 1.6 AST 3.3 STL 1.0 PF 2.6 TO 1.0 PTS 8.7
He has essentially turned himself into our best PG by far. If we cannot draft Ball, we need to draft the BPA. I don't want to reach for a PG unless the team really believes the guy is going to be a noticeable improvement over Frank. Now if the BPA is a pg, that is fine, but we need to get the BPA, regardless of position.
Agree Frankie is our best PG, but look who we have as a like for like comparison! Lol... For me he’s the best defensive guard in the league, with only Derrick White, Matisse Thybulle, Kris Dunn coming close. His defensive qualities far overshadow his playmaking and offensive game though. But if he can raise his offensive game to the standard shown in his last games and continue this consistently? ( for this I’m praying) He will be valued as a “2 way player” at a very high premium.
If Ball / Haliburton/ Cole are not available to us, then I’d like to see us draft quality wings and perimeter shooting ( Nesmith and Bey come to mind ). Pursue Vanvleet etc in FA. I’m fine with BPA but we do need to implement a long term strategy to assemble a competitive roster.
Feel like I am there. Right now Franks seems like a good secondary or complimentary guard for a high level team, or perhaps a solid cog off bench. Just not enough playmaking and breakdown ability. I don't watch Toronto enough to really know the dynamics but Lowery/VanFleet seem to do well together with the other guys in the lineup, whereas VanFleet as the lone starter/guard focal point for a team probably wouldn't work. Frank and someone else would need to be paired in the same way. Realistically Frank would need to get his 3pt shooting to the high 30% range for him to be a quality starter next to someone like Ball/Haliburton.
Yes I agree Martin, finding the “right” backcourt partner for Frankie is crucial not only for his own individual development but for the progression of this franchise.
I don’t see Vanvleet being detrimental to the backcourt or team chemistry. Would he be as effective as he is in TOR alongside an Allstar guard in Lowry? Debatable. Personally I’m high on Vanvleet his age, skill set and intangibles.
Sangfroid wrote:ccinflushing wrote:I think Frank's progressing fine given his injury/team situation. I don't think Fizdale did him any favours, with his wack line-up and rotations and general lack of structure or accountability. Frank has improved his core strength and his handles, as well his playmaking skills. His reads on offense has gotten a lot better and he's generally making the right decisions quicker. He's getting to his spots and is less hesitant about shooting, which has helped his percentage.His progress in his 3rd year stack up against guys like Kyle Lowry, Kemba Walker, Goran Dragic and Spencer Dinwiddie, even though he's two to three years younger. Those guys turned out to be pretty good players and I think Frank will be too.
This is the guy I expect to show up when the next season starts. He's ready...
To have as rough a start as he has had while, with the amount of pressure and expectations he has had placed on him in this market. To fight through all that and work his way up. Shows a level of mental toughness and focus. He were to continue this trajectory(from the last 2 months of gms he played) and have a strong season next yr. Sky is the limit for his confidence, and NY will end up having crafted a diamond.
Knickfury11 wrote:martin wrote:Knickfury11 wrote:TheGame wrote:In the last 10 games for the Knicks, Frank's stat line is:Min 20.9 FG %44.7 3P% 38.1 FT% 84.6 RB 1.6 AST 3.3 STL 1.0 PF 2.6 TO 1.0 PTS 8.7
He has essentially turned himself into our best PG by far. If we cannot draft Ball, we need to draft the BPA. I don't want to reach for a PG unless the team really believes the guy is going to be a noticeable improvement over Frank. Now if the BPA is a pg, that is fine, but we need to get the BPA, regardless of position.
Agree Frankie is our best PG, but look who we have as a like for like comparison! Lol... For me he’s the best defensive guard in the league, with only Derrick White, Matisse Thybulle, Kris Dunn coming close. His defensive qualities far overshadow his playmaking and offensive game though. But if he can raise his offensive game to the standard shown in his last games and continue this consistently? ( for this I’m praying) He will be valued as a “2 way player” at a very high premium.
If Ball / Haliburton/ Cole are not available to us, then I’d like to see us draft quality wings and perimeter shooting ( Nesmith and Bey come to mind ). Pursue Vanvleet etc in FA. I’m fine with BPA but we do need to implement a long term strategy to assemble a competitive roster.
Feel like I am there. Right now Franks seems like a good secondary or complimentary guard for a high level team, or perhaps a solid cog off bench. Just not enough playmaking and breakdown ability. I don't watch Toronto enough to really know the dynamics but Lowery/VanFleet seem to do well together with the other guys in the lineup, whereas VanFleet as the lone starter/guard focal point for a team probably wouldn't work. Frank and someone else would need to be paired in the same way. Realistically Frank would need to get his 3pt shooting to the high 30% range for him to be a quality starter next to someone like Ball/Haliburton.
Yes I agree Martin, finding the “right” backcourt partner for Frankie is crucial not only for his own individual development but for the progression of this franchise.
I don’t see Vanvleet being detrimental to the backcourt or team chemistry. Would he be as effective as he is in TOR alongside an Allstar guard in Lowry? Debatable. Personally I’m high on Vanvleet his age, skill set and intangibles.
It'll all be about cost of his contract. $10-15, not so bad, anything above is a no-go for me. And I don't think you can get him away from TOR at that price range.
fishmike wrote:you extend him to play the Marcus Smart role. Downside is he's a very good 30mpg bench player who covers you at backup PG and in line ups where his defense is impacting the game. Upside is he continues growing into Fiba Frank and is our starting PG for the next decade.He's exactly the kind of player we need here. Lock him up, draft the BPA (Pg or otherwise) and just keep working on these kids.
I absolutely love that comp. On a good team Frank will look like Smart
newyorknewyork wrote:Sangfroid wrote:ccinflushing wrote:I think Frank's progressing fine given his injury/team situation. I don't think Fizdale did him any favours, with his wack line-up and rotations and general lack of structure or accountability. Frank has improved his core strength and his handles, as well his playmaking skills. His reads on offense has gotten a lot better and he's generally making the right decisions quicker. He's getting to his spots and is less hesitant about shooting, which has helped his percentage.His progress in his 3rd year stack up against guys like Kyle Lowry, Kemba Walker, Goran Dragic and Spencer Dinwiddie, even though he's two to three years younger. Those guys turned out to be pretty good players and I think Frank will be too.
This is the guy I expect to show up when the next season starts. He's ready...
To have as rough a start as he has had while, with the amount of pressure and expectations he has had placed on him in this market. To fight through all that and work his way up. Shows a level of mental toughness and focus. He were to continue this trajectory(from the last 2 months of gms he played) and have a strong season next yr. Sky is the limit for his confidence, and NY will end up having crafted a diamond.
He really hasn't worked his way up to anything, The knicks continue to bring in PG after pg because of his lack of production.
FANS just want that feel good story because he's a good kid, but if frank was drafted by dallas and traded to the knicks there would be zero patience for him, just like there's zero patience for DSJ.
DSJ is slightly a better player then frank,(even though is attitude sucks) and he gets little to no love around here.
I like frank (on another team in a better situation with a define role), but I know that there's a 95% chance that he will continue to struggle in NY because the knicks don't have there sht together
knicks1248 wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Sangfroid wrote:ccinflushing wrote:I think Frank's progressing fine given his injury/team situation. I don't think Fizdale did him any favours, with his wack line-up and rotations and general lack of structure or accountability. Frank has improved his core strength and his handles, as well his playmaking skills. His reads on offense has gotten a lot better and he's generally making the right decisions quicker. He's getting to his spots and is less hesitant about shooting, which has helped his percentage.His progress in his 3rd year stack up against guys like Kyle Lowry, Kemba Walker, Goran Dragic and Spencer Dinwiddie, even though he's two to three years younger. Those guys turned out to be pretty good players and I think Frank will be too.
This is the guy I expect to show up when the next season starts. He's ready...
To have as rough a start as he has had while, with the amount of pressure and expectations he has had placed on him in this market. To fight through all that and work his way up. Shows a level of mental toughness and focus. He were to continue this trajectory(from the last 2 months of gms he played) and have a strong season next yr. Sky is the limit for his confidence, and NY will end up having crafted a diamond.
He really hasn't worked his way up to anything, The knicks continue to bring in PG after pg because of his lack of production.
FANS just want that feel good story because he's a good kid, but if frank was drafted by dallas and traded to the knicks there would be zero patience for him, just like there's zero patience for DSJ.DSJ is slightly a better player then frank,(even though is attitude sucks) and he gets little to no love around here.
I like frank (on another team in a better situation with a define role), but I know that there's a 95% chance that he will continue to struggle in NY because the knicks don't have there sht together
Frank came in weak physically, suspect handle, not willing to penetrate, passing up open 3s while clanking others, below average ft shooter for the few FTs he did take.
Just as the video in this thread shows, his handle is waaaaaay tighter. He is more capable and willing to penetrate into the paint. He even finished through contact over 2 defenders in one of the highlights. More decisive taking the shot. Yada yada yada. Point is you see the improvements to his offensive game. He is already strong defensively.
He has shown glimpses just like in this highlight, Fiba, vs Dallas, vs Houston etc... of him being a vital reason the game was won for his play on both sides of the ball. There is something to that for the 21 yr old. more & more its becoming when instead of if. If Knicks acquire a stud guard and he backs up the position its a win win. Would turn longtime weakness into the strength of the team.
Dennis Smith Jr had the talent to be the #1 pick in the draft when he came out. There is nobody that has stopped DSJr from coming here and solving all our PG problems for the next decade dating back to last season when he played his first Knick game. He had the talent to come in and drop 20+pts per game in a lost season and *take* the wheel. Continue to build on that and be a stud pg on the team right now & going forward.
I can't name the improvements to his game. He already was equiped with speed, quickness, mind blowing athleticism & handle coming in. So really he had to focus mostly on a jumper and defense.