Knicks · Sources: Knicks to begin coaching search with Tom Thibodeau the top candidate per shams and realgm (page 2)
Uptown wrote:Atkinson would be a good choice for developmental purposes, but did any of y'all watch any nyet games? I'll admit, I only watched when they played the Knicks and a hand full of games when Kyrie was healthy but Atkinson's offense was uninspiring! They pretty much ran a 5-out set and jacked-up a ton of quick 3's. They did run some PNR and drive and kicks but there wasn't much innovation at all. My views are limited, though.He's also a MDA disciple and one of the biggest complaints I had with MDA was his lack of in game adjustments, and pre-game adjustments...I have heard some nyet fans complain about this but I cant confirm myself do to no watching them enough...I say all that to say, Atkinson is not without his own warts...
I agree. I didn't watch them much(grey court is awful) but your observation is the same as mine. I think the safe move is to go with Miller for another year.
Chandler wrote:if the Knicks wanted my advice I would be thinking about a developmental coach (no that doesn't mean playing youngsters just for the sake of playing them). I just don't see Thibs in such a role. ANd i love Miller but not sure whether that's his thing. We need to build a base of talent through wise drafting and better developmentOne interesting thing, to me at least, is if you look at NBA champions over the past 10 years plus the head coaches enjoyed huge success as rookie coaches. Of course, they had stacked teams, but they didn't flub up their situations.
Up here in Boston, the announcers used to be fond of saying that a good coach can (1) win games or (2) develop talent. A great coach can do both. Oddly, they used to consider Bill Fitch good for development, and KC Jones good for winning titles!
Obviously we would all prefer a great coach. I don't think we're going to find one that's available with NBA HC experience (our last best chance was Budenholzer). Maybe there's one from college ranks -- but seems those are risky boom or bust.
So based on the above I would urge a developmental coach and continuing to build the base of talent.
You make some good points, but who is this developmental coach that you would hire?
Thibs got that Larry Brow thing. He gonna come in, build it up, then you blow him out. Larry knew this. He told them up front. Only Isiah did not understand what he is about.
Thibs did a great job in Chicago but he did not dial it back like ever. In he got them to the playoffs then the yoot got tired of his act. If Thibs can taper it a bit he’ll be great. If not, They all know it up front. Give him a 4 or 5 year deal. He won’t last it. Who cares, not your money. Seriously, you guys go to work and 10 years later your the same guy? Same knowledge? Same skills? Is it on Thibs that DRose was MVP, then got hurt? Or Noah partied out? Jimmy butler got great? No credit for the good, just the bad end? Only coach in the league without a bad ending is Spro, Brad Stevens, Kerr and Pop. Kerr sucked as GM. His cred was good role player on great teams, stupid GM and now HOF bound cuz the GSW gig.
I’m not gonna wig out on Thibs. He will elevate the team to the next level. After that we fire his ass?
I like Atkinson and Miller a lot. I have no issues with any of the three.
NYKBocker wrote:I would be happy with Atkinson or Miller
How about Atkinson AND Miller (as Main assistant coach)?
I’m fine with either Thibs, JVG or Atkinson, though am open to whoever. If we’re drafting a PG, and building with youth, then Atkinson really looks like the best fit- might even help us get Joe Harris, if you want to go down that route.
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smackeddog wrote:I am in the same boat. Atkinson or Miller would be fine. Thibs I wouldn't be pissed. Who I really want is JVG. I love that dude and his civic. However, I don't think he is even in the running.NYKBocker wrote:I would be happy with Atkinson or MillerHow about Atkinson AND Miller (as Main assistant coach)?I'm fine with either Thibs, JVG or Atkinson, though am open to whoever. If we're drafting a PG, and building with youth, then Atkinson really looks like the best fit- might even help us get Joe Harris, if you want to go down that route.
BillTheButcher wrote:As a Knicks fan who grew up on the 90s Knicks, I might just lose faith and that is saying something since we have not really won since then if we go with Thibs. The guy had his moments but the game as it is played today has passed him by, I am sick of hiring all these damn retreads.Go with Atkinson for god sake or just keep Miller.
As a big 90's Knicks fan, what would you think about JVG being the HC? I was a huge fan when he was here (I even preferred him over Riley) but I have no idea sure if the game might've passed him by too. I wouldn't think so because he's a smart guy and he's been announcing for years so he probably has an understanding of the way the game is played these days. I'd definitely take my chances on him but it doesn't seem like it's going to happen. Not sure if he necessarily wants to come back but I got that impression.
Unless Rose lands two legit stars in their prime, and they want a more familiar face, Id like to see Miller get a real shot.
smackeddog wrote:I would have liked Quin Snyder, but unfortunately he signed an extension in 2019
Snyder is an excellent coach...very innovative and his teams are always prepared...
Uptown wrote:Chandler wrote:if the Knicks wanted my advice I would be thinking about a developmental coach (no that doesn't mean playing youngsters just for the sake of playing them). I just don't see Thibs in such a role. ANd i love Miller but not sure whether that's his thing. We need to build a base of talent through wise drafting and better developmentOne interesting thing, to me at least, is if you look at NBA champions over the past 10 years plus the head coaches enjoyed huge success as rookie coaches. Of course, they had stacked teams, but they didn't flub up their situations.
Up here in Boston, the announcers used to be fond of saying that a good coach can (1) win games or (2) develop talent. A great coach can do both. Oddly, they used to consider Bill Fitch good for development, and KC Jones good for winning titles!
Obviously we would all prefer a great coach. I don't think we're going to find one that's available with NBA HC experience (our last best chance was Budenholzer). Maybe there's one from college ranks -- but seems those are risky boom or bust.
So based on the above I would urge a developmental coach and continuing to build the base of talent.
You make some good points, but who is this developmental coach that you would hire?
i don't have a clear view on that. Atkinson is probably a better choice than Thibs under this criteria but i agree with other posts that his offense seems to be first open three (playing the odds). So some guys may get higher stats with that, but is it the right kind of development that would lead to sustained and significant success??? I have my doubts
i do feel Thibs would be the wrong pick though
Nalod wrote:Really think coaches don’t learn, grow or evolve?Thibs got that Larry Brow thing. He gonna come in, build it up, then you blow him out. Larry knew this. He told them up front. Only Isiah did not understand what he is about.
Thibs did a great job in Chicago but he did not dial it back like ever. In he got them to the playoffs then the yoot got tired of his act. If Thibs can taper it a bit he’ll be great. If not, They all know it up front. Give him a 4 or 5 year deal. He won’t last it. Who cares, not your money. Seriously, you guys go to work and 10 years later your the same guy? Same knowledge? Same skills? Is it on Thibs that DRose was MVP, then got hurt? Or Noah partied out? Jimmy butler got great? No credit for the good, just the bad end? Only coach in the league without a bad ending is Spro, Brad Stevens, Kerr and Pop. Kerr sucked as GM. His cred was good role player on great teams, stupid GM and now HOF bound cuz the GSW gig.
I’m not gonna wig out on Thibs. He will elevate the team to the next level. After that we fire his ass?
I like Atkinson and Miller a lot. I have no issues with any of the three.
At some level I could care less whether the players liked him. FWIW i think many of the best ones Rose, Butler did because they were all about winning
the issues are he overplays players leading to injuries and under-performance. It's shortsighted
Also until the league levels the playing field better for defense why would you hire Thibs?
"Ball don't lie!"
Chandler wrote:Uptown wrote:Chandler wrote:if the Knicks wanted my advice I would be thinking about a developmental coach (no that doesn't mean playing youngsters just for the sake of playing them). I just don't see Thibs in such a role. ANd i love Miller but not sure whether that's his thing. We need to build a base of talent through wise drafting and better developmentOne interesting thing, to me at least, is if you look at NBA champions over the past 10 years plus the head coaches enjoyed huge success as rookie coaches. Of course, they had stacked teams, but they didn't flub up their situations.
Up here in Boston, the announcers used to be fond of saying that a good coach can (1) win games or (2) develop talent. A great coach can do both. Oddly, they used to consider Bill Fitch good for development, and KC Jones good for winning titles!
Obviously we would all prefer a great coach. I don't think we're going to find one that's available with NBA HC experience (our last best chance was Budenholzer). Maybe there's one from college ranks -- but seems those are risky boom or bust.
So based on the above I would urge a developmental coach and continuing to build the base of talent.
You make some good points, but who is this developmental coach that you would hire?
i don't have a clear view on that. Atkinson is probably a better choice than Thibs under this criteria but i agree with other posts that his offense seems to be first open three (playing the odds). So some guys may get higher stats with that, but is it the right kind of development that would lead to sustained and significant success??? I have my doubtsi do feel Thibs would be the wrong pick though
Why, that's like Houston basing MDA's track record on his tenure with the Knicks and Lakers and disregarding his track record with the Suns.
Thibs had more success in the NBA than not. If they were winning before he was hired by Minny or started winning after he was let go, then I could see
Atkinson had a similar scenario like JH had with the suns, One good yr as head coach and fired the next, what make him a better candidate with less experience?
knicks1248 wrote:D'Antoni had to work as an assistant in Philly to get back into coaching after his Knick/Laker runs.Chandler wrote:Uptown wrote:Chandler wrote:if the Knicks wanted my advice I would be thinking about a developmental coach (no that doesn't mean playing youngsters just for the sake of playing them). I just don't see Thibs in such a role. ANd i love Miller but not sure whether that's his thing. We need to build a base of talent through wise drafting and better developmentOne interesting thing, to me at least, is if you look at NBA champions over the past 10 years plus the head coaches enjoyed huge success as rookie coaches. Of course, they had stacked teams, but they didn't flub up their situations.
Up here in Boston, the announcers used to be fond of saying that a good coach can (1) win games or (2) develop talent. A great coach can do both. Oddly, they used to consider Bill Fitch good for development, and KC Jones good for winning titles!
Obviously we would all prefer a great coach. I don't think we're going to find one that's available with NBA HC experience (our last best chance was Budenholzer). Maybe there's one from college ranks -- but seems those are risky boom or bust.
So based on the above I would urge a developmental coach and continuing to build the base of talent.
You make some good points, but who is this developmental coach that you would hire?
i don't have a clear view on that. Atkinson is probably a better choice than Thibs under this criteria but i agree with other posts that his offense seems to be first open three (playing the odds). So some guys may get higher stats with that, but is it the right kind of development that would lead to sustained and significant success??? I have my doubtsi do feel Thibs would be the wrong pick though
Why, that's like Houston basing MDA's track record on his tenure with the Knicks and Lakers and disregarding his track record with the Suns.
Thibs had more success in the NBA than not. If they were winning before he was hired by Minny or started winning after he was let go, then I could see
Atkinson had a similar scenario like JH had with the suns, One good yr as head coach and fired the next, what make him a better candidate with less experience?
knicks1248 wrote:Chandler wrote:Uptown wrote:Chandler wrote:if the Knicks wanted my advice I would be thinking about a developmental coach (no that doesn't mean playing youngsters just for the sake of playing them). I just don't see Thibs in such a role. ANd i love Miller but not sure whether that's his thing. We need to build a base of talent through wise drafting and better developmentOne interesting thing, to me at least, is if you look at NBA champions over the past 10 years plus the head coaches enjoyed huge success as rookie coaches. Of course, they had stacked teams, but they didn't flub up their situations.
Up here in Boston, the announcers used to be fond of saying that a good coach can (1) win games or (2) develop talent. A great coach can do both. Oddly, they used to consider Bill Fitch good for development, and KC Jones good for winning titles!
Obviously we would all prefer a great coach. I don't think we're going to find one that's available with NBA HC experience (our last best chance was Budenholzer). Maybe there's one from college ranks -- but seems those are risky boom or bust.
So based on the above I would urge a developmental coach and continuing to build the base of talent.
You make some good points, but who is this developmental coach that you would hire?
i don't have a clear view on that. Atkinson is probably a better choice than Thibs under this criteria but i agree with other posts that his offense seems to be first open three (playing the odds). So some guys may get higher stats with that, but is it the right kind of development that would lead to sustained and significant success??? I have my doubtsi do feel Thibs would be the wrong pick though
Why, that's like Houston basing MDA's track record on his tenure with the Knicks and Lakers and disregarding his track record with the Suns.
Thibs had more success in the NBA than not. If they were winning before he was hired by Minny or started winning after he was let go, then I could see
Atkinson had a similar scenario like JH had with the suns, One good yr as head coach and fired the next, what make him a better candidate with less experience?
My biggest gripes with Thibs are (1) the NBA disfavors defensive games so his biggest strength is mitigated; throw into that how many "good" players take off on defensive effort because "defensive effort" is not tracked as a statistic and thus doesn't translate as well to contract $$ as does points, rebounds etc. and (2)his (over)use of players is a concern -- akin to too many pitches for a start, too many relief appearances etc. Guys are run down by the playoffs.
Yes, he would be an improvement, as would overspending on a mid-tier FA
No, he's not the guy if you're serious about winning big in a sustained way (same is true for JVG but 10x more so)
We need to find/hire the next Budenholzer, Kerr (ironically enough both were so close to being here) or Nurse. These guys have developed players and won and had immediate impacts
Think Leons has not discussed this with him? Maybe even suggesting before he got fired as his agent to ease up?
Two owners do not define a coaches acumen. Dolan and Glen taylor. Neither has a good record running their teams. Taylor might learning to lay back a bit finally. Just because he fired Thibs don't make his issues legit.
Be it as it may, Thibs like many coaches do build in what they know. Somtimes they are to blame, sometimes not. Thibs did good in chicago then burned them out. OK, Townes and Wiggins wilted under him.
Imagine Townes and Coach Cal have talked it out. Leon and Cal are buds. Think Leon has not called Calipari and discussed what KAT and Thibs beef was about? Some of you really think your the only ones concerned about this?
Coaches are always wild cards and each team is different. He might push rj hard and he responds to Jimmy Butler like greatness. Thibs inherits a bull dog defender in Frank. That might be a great match. 21 years old and needs stability, Im rooting for frank and to get his shooting together. Frank needs stabilty. 3 coaches in three years. Thibs will be 4th. "Trade him to stability?" it will still be his 4 coach in so many years. This braintrust I trust more than fans to make the call. Im a fan. What do I know other than was it written?
Weird, If anyone could be compared to DRose its Dennsi Smith. Maybe Thibs can unlock whats in this kid? Somtimes players just out grow their bodies and what was projected of them. Dennis looks built more like a young marshon Lynch than a basketball player. It happens, players bodies change. Frank looks like he just finished puberty. Same for Knox. Don't matter what I think, its what Walt Perrin thinks!!!!
Draft. Who will Thibs want? WE don't know the lottery. I goe Wiseman, then some order of Edwards, Ball, and the Dayton Kid. Im drafting the best player, not position. If its Lamelo I propose:
1. Dolan and Oak settle their beef. Oak has to submitt to counciling but Dolan pays Oak one million a year for community service outreach other things.
2. Oak goes to some Manchurian Candidate/A Clockwork Orange type mind phuch adjustment were he is forced to watch hours of Lavar Ball rants on video while drugged. Eyes open with drops, pure torture. There is a reason for this and its where oak makes his money...........
3. Oak gets unlimited bar tab and sits next to Lavar Ball at every game and is under his supervision when in the building. Oak just stares at him and when so annoyed, just slaps him. Thibs woops Lamelo into a better Jason Kidd and Lavar shuts the phuch up. Garden is alive and Oak is loved. Dolan looks like a genius. Dolan needs this, Oak needs this and lord knows we need Lavar to be a good dad.
PhilinLA wrote:Thib's rehabilitation sounds a lot like Mike McCarthy's rehab in football. I'll believe it when I see it and not suspect it before.
He's certainly doing a full court press on the PR front