Knicks · It actually turns out the Knicks screwed themselves out of getting LeBron, here's how! (page 2)

NardDogNation wrote:

Uptown wrote:Knicks never had a shot at Lebron!! Lebron, Wade and Melo had been talking about teaming up since 2006 or 2007. LeBron and Wade signed similar deals that allowed them to be free agents at the same time in 2010. Melo wanted his money, so instead of signing a 3 yr deal, he singed for 5 yrs so he was out. Enter Bosh.

Wade was in Riley's ear, and he was able to free up cap space to sign 3 max FA's! The Bulls were the dark horse, not the Knicks. Even if the Knicks had a 1% chance, they signed Amare who was damaged goods and someone who LeBron wasn't looking to team up with.

...LeBron, Wade and Bosh had discussions about teaming up but not with a specific franchise in mind; a fact being reaffirmed through Nick Fridell, Bill Simmons and others. Had the Knicks been run properly and had any vision, they could've had those 3 max spots freed up by that 2010 offseason.

The Bulls were no darkhorse because of the subtle hostility Rose and Noah had to LeBron/other stars and because they did not have 3 max spots to offer. I also think the Knicks had more appeal because it was a bigger stage but neutral ground; whereas the Heat were percieved to be Wade's franchise.

The Bulls were in the discussion because they were Wade's home team. Wade talked about why the Bulls lost out to the Heat...

https://www.espn.com/blog/chicago/bulls/...

"Chris Bosh effect," Wade said, explaining why he and LeBron James didn't sign with the Bulls in 2010. "Had the opportunity for us three to play together and we both separately really wanted to play with Chris Bosh. So it was going to be kind of a sense where Chicago wanted two players, they could have got two players. It probably was going to be LeBron and Chris or me and Chris, right? It kind of was moreso that effect, that they could only do two. And Miami was able to get all three of us. And we really wanted to play together at that moment once we found out it could be a thing. So instead of it being me, LeBron and Derrick Rose, it's going to be a tough one. So we decided to pick what we thought was better from a basketball standpoint."

Notice Wade said "We". We was him, LeBron and Bosh, meaning they had a pact to play toegther. We didn't have 3 max slots meaning we never had a shot.

Uptown wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Uptown wrote:Knicks never had a shot at Lebron!! Lebron, Wade and Melo had been talking about teaming up since 2006 or 2007. LeBron and Wade signed similar deals that allowed them to be free agents at the same time in 2010. Melo wanted his money, so instead of signing a 3 yr deal, he singed for 5 yrs so he was out. Enter Bosh.

Wade was in Riley's ear, and he was able to free up cap space to sign 3 max FA's! The Bulls were the dark horse, not the Knicks. Even if the Knicks had a 1% chance, they signed Amare who was damaged goods and someone who LeBron wasn't looking to team up with.

...LeBron, Wade and Bosh had discussions about teaming up but not with a specific franchise in mind; a fact being reaffirmed through Nick Fridell, Bill Simmons and others. Had the Knicks been run properly and had any vision, they could've had those 3 max spots freed up by that 2010 offseason.

The Bulls were no darkhorse because of the subtle hostility Rose and Noah had to LeBron/other stars and because they did not have 3 max spots to offer. I also think the Knicks had more appeal because it was a bigger stage but neutral ground; whereas the Heat were percieved to be Wade's franchise.

The Bulls were in the discussion because they were Wade's home team. Wade talked about why the Bulls lost out to the Heat...

https://www.espn.com/blog/chicago/bulls/...

"Chris Bosh effect," Wade said, explaining why he and LeBron James didn't sign with the Bulls in 2010. "Had the opportunity for us three to play together and we both separately really wanted to play with Chris Bosh. So it was going to be kind of a sense where Chicago wanted two players, they could have got two players. It probably was going to be LeBron and Chris or me and Chris, right? It kind of was moreso that effect, that they could only do two. And Miami was able to get all three of us. And we really wanted to play together at that moment once we found out it could be a thing. So instead of it being me, LeBron and Derrick Rose, it's going to be a tough one. So we decided to pick what we thought was better from a basketball standpoint."

Notice Wade said "We". We was him, LeBron and Bosh, meaning they had a pact to play toegther. We didn't have 3 max slots meaning we never had a shot.

If we did have 3 max spots, we would've had a shot and been favored. We didn't have 3 max spots because we mishandled the situation.

NardDogNation wrote:

Uptown wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Uptown wrote:Knicks never had a shot at Lebron!! Lebron, Wade and Melo had been talking about teaming up since 2006 or 2007. LeBron and Wade signed similar deals that allowed them to be free agents at the same time in 2010. Melo wanted his money, so instead of signing a 3 yr deal, he singed for 5 yrs so he was out. Enter Bosh.

Wade was in Riley's ear, and he was able to free up cap space to sign 3 max FA's! The Bulls were the dark horse, not the Knicks. Even if the Knicks had a 1% chance, they signed Amare who was damaged goods and someone who LeBron wasn't looking to team up with.

...LeBron, Wade and Bosh had discussions about teaming up but not with a specific franchise in mind; a fact being reaffirmed through Nick Fridell, Bill Simmons and others. Had the Knicks been run properly and had any vision, they could've had those 3 max spots freed up by that 2010 offseason.

The Bulls were no darkhorse because of the subtle hostility Rose and Noah had to LeBron/other stars and because they did not have 3 max spots to offer. I also think the Knicks had more appeal because it was a bigger stage but neutral ground; whereas the Heat were percieved to be Wade's franchise.

The Bulls were in the discussion because they were Wade's home team. Wade talked about why the Bulls lost out to the Heat...

https://www.espn.com/blog/chicago/bulls/...

"Chris Bosh effect," Wade said, explaining why he and LeBron James didn't sign with the Bulls in 2010. "Had the opportunity for us three to play together and we both separately really wanted to play with Chris Bosh. So it was going to be kind of a sense where Chicago wanted two players, they could have got two players. It probably was going to be LeBron and Chris or me and Chris, right? It kind of was moreso that effect, that they could only do two. And Miami was able to get all three of us. And we really wanted to play together at that moment once we found out it could be a thing. So instead of it being me, LeBron and Derrick Rose, it's going to be a tough one. So we decided to pick what we thought was better from a basketball standpoint."

Notice Wade said "We". We was him, LeBron and Bosh, meaning they had a pact to play toegther. We didn't have 3 max slots meaning we never had a shot.

If we did have 3 max spots, we would've had a shot and been favored. We didn't have 3 max spots because we mishandled the situation.

Opening up 3 max slots is extremely difficult. One of the reasons why I believe the Heat was able to do it is because Riley had Intel from Wade. Intel that the other teams didn't have access to.

Uptown wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Uptown wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Uptown wrote:Knicks never had a shot at Lebron!! Lebron, Wade and Melo had been talking about teaming up since 2006 or 2007. LeBron and Wade signed similar deals that allowed them to be free agents at the same time in 2010. Melo wanted his money, so instead of signing a 3 yr deal, he singed for 5 yrs so he was out. Enter Bosh.

Wade was in Riley's ear, and he was able to free up cap space to sign 3 max FA's! The Bulls were the dark horse, not the Knicks. Even if the Knicks had a 1% chance, they signed Amare who was damaged goods and someone who LeBron wasn't looking to team up with.

...LeBron, Wade and Bosh had discussions about teaming up but not with a specific franchise in mind; a fact being reaffirmed through Nick Fridell, Bill Simmons and others. Had the Knicks been run properly and had any vision, they could've had those 3 max spots freed up by that 2010 offseason.

The Bulls were no darkhorse because of the subtle hostility Rose and Noah had to LeBron/other stars and because they did not have 3 max spots to offer. I also think the Knicks had more appeal because it was a bigger stage but neutral ground; whereas the Heat were percieved to be Wade's franchise.

The Bulls were in the discussion because they were Wade's home team. Wade talked about why the Bulls lost out to the Heat...

https://www.espn.com/blog/chicago/bulls/...

"Chris Bosh effect," Wade said, explaining why he and LeBron James didn't sign with the Bulls in 2010. "Had the opportunity for us three to play together and we both separately really wanted to play with Chris Bosh. So it was going to be kind of a sense where Chicago wanted two players, they could have got two players. It probably was going to be LeBron and Chris or me and Chris, right? It kind of was moreso that effect, that they could only do two. And Miami was able to get all three of us. And we really wanted to play together at that moment once we found out it could be a thing. So instead of it being me, LeBron and Derrick Rose, it's going to be a tough one. So we decided to pick what we thought was better from a basketball standpoint."

Notice Wade said "We". We was him, LeBron and Bosh, meaning they had a pact to play toegther. We didn't have 3 max slots meaning we never had a shot.

If we did have 3 max spots, we would've had a shot and been favored. We didn't have 3 max spots because we mishandled the situation.

Opening up 3 max slots is extremely difficult. One of the reasons why I believe the Heat was able to do it is because Riley had Intel from Wade. Intel that the other teams didn't have access to.

It's difficult if you have talent worth keeping. Eddy Curry at $11.5 million does not qualify. And the sad thing is, we reportedly had the option to straight dump him OR trade him for Chauncey Billups during the summer of 2008. Word was the Walsh passed on both opportunities because (1) Chauncey Billups was set to also be on the books during the 2010-2011 season and evidently these idiots never contemplated re-packaging him elsewhere and (2) Walsh thought he could recuperate Curry's trade value and actually get an asset back for him. The funny thing is that of Zach Randolph, Jamal Crawford, Jared Jefferies and Eddy Curry; Curry obviously held the least value and we elected to keep him the longest!

Nalod wrote:Amare signed with the cap space that could have been Lebron. Not both. Wade already in place. Big difference. Heat and Miami were best path for a chip at that moment.

We had the space for 2. Eddy Curry did us in. The Knicks bungled clearing the space

Sambakick wrote:

Nalod wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Nalod wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:The Knicks screwed themselves from the get-go with that Donnie Walsh hire. The game had clearly passed him by, with the Pacers having been on a steady, 4-season decline before Walsh got the Knicks gig. He then continued that trend of ineptitude with the Knicks, making one boneheaded decision/indecision after another with the only agenda being cap space in 2010. I seriously wonder what the strategy was: to their knees and beg for LeBron to join a depleted roster and then have him recruit a second star? I'm not surprised why he spurned that "tempting" offer.

I think that's one of the major themes for why we've sucked for so long. We've so often gone for the Donnie Walsh's of the basketball world who've had success in the distant past, rather than trying to find the new, young, cutting-edge executives that can adapt to a new world. Had a Sam Presti been at the helm back then, the LeBron pursuit would've been different.

Walsh was thrust on the knick by the league after Jimmy stood by Isiah in the aftermath of the awful seasons, trades and finally Anucha. HE resigned Isiah after anuhca. Walsh was seen at the time as reasonable.
Go back and look at the season before Lebron and look at what was happening. It was bad. Donnie was not welcome by Dolan. Dysfunction atop the knicks.

The league was pushing Jerry Colangelo, a close friend of Donald Stern. Dolan, ever-the-contrarian, went with Donnie as a compromise. It made no sense then and no sense now because I think it was widely understood that Colangelo was the better executive. Dude oversaw multiple rebuilds/retools with the Suns over the span of ~20 years, all of which had them with one of the highest winning percentages in pro sports. To be fair though, it seemed like Jerry was looking to transition out of basketball at that point and let his son- Bryan Colangelo- take the forefront. Bryan Colaneglo, by most accounts, is a fucking idiot, so we might not have fared any better with him if Jerry wasn't running the day-to-day. But I still thought Colangelo was the smarter hire given his resume and connection with elite players due to his stint with USA Basketball.

Yes, COLANGELO would have faired better. My point was Donnie did not have much autonomy and Isiah was still in Dolan’s ear. In the blame game i dont hold Donnie accountable as i would others in same role.

Donnie should've extended David Lee on a reasonable 7-8 mil contract when he got here in 2008. Then organically rebuild the team. Instead his only plan was 2010 cap space and he let DLEE price himself into a near All-Star caliber player soon to be free agent in the summer of 2010. We signed Amare in 2010 for more than twice what it would've taken to re-sign Lee in 2008. We all know what happened once we had Amare aka Star1. We HAD to get Star2.

With DLEE signed reasonably we would've been able to slow build and not falter down the Starpath. DLee, Chandler, Gallo would've been a fun team and if Melo wanted to join fine, if not fine. We would've been in a good position with draft picks not squandered.

EVERYTHING started with Walsh and his two years of cap clearing. It was unthinkable before him to even do such a thing.

Walsh also spurned Tom Thibadeaux who would've loved the job for the ill-fitting Mike D'antoni. We didn't have a D'antoni team and D'antoni couldn't adjust his style.

Donnie Walsh wasn't a bad dude. But he was the wrong guy. He started a snowball that future Knicks GMs turned into an avalanche.

Either way we wasted Lee. Should of traded him earlier maybe to get rid of Curry. Had we had the 10 million from Curry we would of had 37 million in cap space plus Chandler, Gallo, Fields

this is Lebron and his team planting a piece to try and up his marketing as there are a lot of NYers frustrated at his spurning us. He/they are trying to say I love NY; it was all Dolan's fault.

Fact of the matter is LBJ is a generational talent but he (like KD later) has made some dumb mistakes on what a lot of fans value: loyalty. His smartest move would have been to convince Bosh and later Wade to join the Cavs. LBJ was the alpha. One could say that going to MIami also had the benefit of a more functional franchise (and lower taxes) but I don't buy it. First, Lebron's style has always been that he plays GM to a large degree and attracted good talent on cheal deals from ring-chasers. Second, the guy is making so much money beyond his NBA contract that the tax savings on his NBA contract were noise.

NardDogNation wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:SAS insists this report is wrong. I believe him in this instance. I don’t think LeBron ever considered NY.

To be fair, SAS is often wrong. I don't view what he has to say as being gospel, especially given the weight of the men insisting it is true.

I agree. I don’t take everything he says serious FYI. In fact, I don’t like him as much as I did in the past.... but I still kind of side with him on this. I think it was Miami all the way.

Jmpasq wrote:

Sambakick wrote:

Nalod wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Nalod wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:The Knicks screwed themselves from the get-go with that Donnie Walsh hire. The game had clearly passed him by, with the Pacers having been on a steady, 4-season decline before Walsh got the Knicks gig. He then continued that trend of ineptitude with the Knicks, making one boneheaded decision/indecision after another with the only agenda being cap space in 2010. I seriously wonder what the strategy was: to their knees and beg for LeBron to join a depleted roster and then have him recruit a second star? I'm not surprised why he spurned that "tempting" offer.

I think that's one of the major themes for why we've sucked for so long. We've so often gone for the Donnie Walsh's of the basketball world who've had success in the distant past, rather than trying to find the new, young, cutting-edge executives that can adapt to a new world. Had a Sam Presti been at the helm back then, the LeBron pursuit would've been different.

Walsh was thrust on the knick by the league after Jimmy stood by Isiah in the aftermath of the awful seasons, trades and finally Anucha. HE resigned Isiah after anuhca. Walsh was seen at the time as reasonable.
Go back and look at the season before Lebron and look at what was happening. It was bad. Donnie was not welcome by Dolan. Dysfunction atop the knicks.

The league was pushing Jerry Colangelo, a close friend of Donald Stern. Dolan, ever-the-contrarian, went with Donnie as a compromise. It made no sense then and no sense now because I think it was widely understood that Colangelo was the better executive. Dude oversaw multiple rebuilds/retools with the Suns over the span of ~20 years, all of which had them with one of the highest winning percentages in pro sports. To be fair though, it seemed like Jerry was looking to transition out of basketball at that point and let his son- Bryan Colangelo- take the forefront. Bryan Colaneglo, by most accounts, is a fucking idiot, so we might not have fared any better with him if Jerry wasn't running the day-to-day. But I still thought Colangelo was the smarter hire given his resume and connection with elite players due to his stint with USA Basketball.

Yes, COLANGELO would have faired better. My point was Donnie did not have much autonomy and Isiah was still in Dolan’s ear. In the blame game i dont hold Donnie accountable as i would others in same role.

Donnie should've extended David Lee on a reasonable 7-8 mil contract when he got here in 2008. Then organically rebuild the team. Instead his only plan was 2010 cap space and he let DLEE price himself into a near All-Star caliber player soon to be free agent in the summer of 2010. We signed Amare in 2010 for more than twice what it would've taken to re-sign Lee in 2008. We all know what happened once we had Amare aka Star1. We HAD to get Star2.

With DLEE signed reasonably we would've been able to slow build and not falter down the Starpath. DLee, Chandler, Gallo would've been a fun team and if Melo wanted to join fine, if not fine. We would've been in a good position with draft picks not squandered.

EVERYTHING started with Walsh and his two years of cap clearing. It was unthinkable before him to even do such a thing.

Walsh also spurned Tom Thibadeaux who would've loved the job for the ill-fitting Mike D'antoni. We didn't have a D'antoni team and D'antoni couldn't adjust his style.

Donnie Walsh wasn't a bad dude. But he was the wrong guy. He started a snowball that future Knicks GMs turned into an avalanche.

Either way we wasted Lee. Should of traded him earlier maybe to get rid of Curry. Had we had the 10 million from Curry we would of had 37 million in cap space plus Chandler, Gallo, Fields

Exactly. I still don't understand Walsh's rationale. As much as they steadily were trying to make the playoffs and avoid tanking, it was plain as day that David Lee wasn't in our long-term plans. By the 2009 trade deadline, we knew we'd only have two max contracts available and keeping David would've meant sacrificing one of those contracts. To think that LeBron would've left Cleveland to have David Lee (and some pieces) as his sidekick was assine.

Chandler wrote:i don't believe this one iota. there were a lot of reports at the time about the Knicks presenting a path to a billion dollar man.

this is Lebron and his team planting a piece to try and up his marketing as there are a lot of NYers frustrated at his spurning us. He/they are trying to say I love NY; it was all Dolan's fault.

Fact of the matter is LBJ is a generational talent but he (like KD later) has made some dumb mistakes on what a lot of fans value: loyalty. His smartest move would have been to convince Bosh and later Wade to join the Cavs. LBJ was the alpha. One could say that going to MIami also had the benefit of a more functional franchise (and lower taxes) but I don't buy it. First, Lebron's style has always been that he plays GM to a large degree and attracted good talent on cheal deals from ring-chasers. Second, the guy is making so much money beyond his NBA contract that the tax savings on his NBA contract were noise.

The Cavs were and remain an incompetent franchise. That is made worse by the fact they are also in Cleveland, which no one wants to be. Word was the Cavs actively tried pursuing Bosh during that free agency but he had no interest playing there with or without LeBron. That says a lot.

Personally, I think LeBron to NYC would've been possible had we not bungled the pursuit so badly. He had spent 2 seasons hinting at the fact directly and indirectly through contacts. What would've been the purpose of doing that if the interest was no legit?

Allanfan20 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:SAS insists this report is wrong. I believe him in this instance. I don’t think LeBron ever considered NY.

To be fair, SAS is often wrong. I don't view what he has to say as being gospel, especially given the weight of the men insisting it is true.

I agree. I don’t take everything he says serious FYI. In fact, I don’t like him as much as I did in the past.... but I still kind of side with him on this. I think it was Miami all the way.

Fair. But if it had been Miami all along, I don't think LeBron would've waited so much longer to make his announcement after Wade and Bosh. I do think the trio had tentative plans to play together but I don't think there is strong enough evidence to say definitively where.

Nalod wrote:We read long ago Lebron laughter at Walsh in his wheel chair and the presentation was laughable.

Warriors get hit hard with injuries and lose Durant

LBJ uses Klutch Sports and tampers to no end to get Anthony Davis to LA. Gets a lot of veterans and looks primed to get another ring. Then COVID19 happens.

Probably shouldn't laugh at an old man in a wheelchair. The basketball gods are merciless and don't forget

LBJ was never going to be a Knick. Never. Only Charles Barkley had the nuts to say it straight, that LBJ had decided long before the FA period before The Decision, but dragged out the process to the detriment of teams, the league and other free agents that year.

Here's who did get screwed - the entire league. The Decision triggered a labor fight that changed the modern game forever. And not all in a good way.

I'm glad LBJ is not a Knick.

TripleThreat wrote:

Nalod wrote:We read long ago Lebron laughter at Walsh in his wheel chair and the presentation was laughable.

Warriors get hit hard with injuries and lose Durant

LBJ uses Klutch Sports and tampers to no end to get Anthony Davis to LA. Gets a lot of veterans and looks primed to get another ring. Then COVID19 happens.

Probably shouldn't laugh at an old man in a wheelchair. The basketball gods are merciless and don't forget

LBJ was never going to be a Knick. Never. Only Charles Barkley had the nuts to say it straight, that LBJ had decided long before the FA period before The Decision, but dragged out the process to the detriment of teams, the league and other free agents that year.

Here's who did get screwed - the entire league. The Decision triggered a labor fight that changed the modern game forever. And not all in a good way.

I'm glad LBJ is not a Knick.

It would be beautiful if Kawhi somehow manages to deny LBJ another shot at anything in the West... Then what?

Back to Cleveland to kiss center court and wave bye bye?