smackeddog wrote:Can he play PF, or is he definitely a C?
I think he can cross to the 4. These guys are all 4-5s anyway/- most of them
Nalod@ 7/24/2020 7:58 AM
Drills against nobody is intoxicating. I hope they can put these kids in a bubble and work them out and combine them.
ankurk@ 7/24/2020 8:10 AM
agree 100% much higher ceiling than mitch makes mitch tradeable if the right opportunity comes along. until then wiseman/robinson 4/5
NYKBocker@ 7/24/2020 8:35 AM
The problem with bigs nowadays is that they can't cover the perimeter because they are slow footed. If Wiseman can cover the perimeter then Mitch and Wiseman can be a formidable twin towers alignment. Our defense can be extended all the way to the 3 point line without taking away our paint intimidation. They can then punish the other team in the paint if our guards can play the pick and roll right.
Nalod@ 7/24/2020 8:35 AM
ankurk wrote:agree 100% much higher ceiling than mitch makes mitch tradeable if the right opportunity comes along. until then wiseman/robinson 4/5
No problem developing both at the same time. you go with best player available. Only player really untouchable is RJ. Not based on merit but intrigue and upside.
franco12@ 7/24/2020 8:37 AM
I'm not sold on taking him #1. I might go Ball, headaches and all.
The kid looks like a great athlete - but the thing I am worried about - I saw this in a video posted here on one of your other Wiseman is awesome threads- he just doesn't seem to have the grace of movement. Bad hands. Link below talks about heavy feet and bad hips and passing. I think Mitchell has more upside and fit. Our biggest need is PG. We get the first pick, I might pick Ball and hope he can develop and answer my questions about PG for the franchise:
Ball Barrett Robinson
Those are my big three, high impact skill players. Fill that roster out with grinders, guys that can defend, rebound and shoot the open three at a high percentage, and that is a team I think projects out to be a top team in the east as they mature and if they develop.
I am trying to figure out what people see fundamentally in Wiseman that they think he is more talented than someone like Mitch? Help me understand this. I get that he is more muscular.
Mitch is a twitch fast athlete. Hand control grabbing lobs is high. He has demonstrated that he is a defensive player of the year kind of talent. Endless motor.
Mitch does lack fundamentals, late bloomer cause of lack of playing. Zero demonstrated shot. Seems like a worker but really can't tell.
Wiseman has a long way to go to, just like Mitch.
What would convince anyone that Wiseman would be a better big in the NBA than say Onyeka Okongwu, outside of being taller?
SupremeCommander@ 7/24/2020 10:25 AM
martin wrote:I am trying to figure out what people see fundamentally in Wiseman that they think he is more talented than someone like Mitch? Help me understand this. I get that he is more muscular.
Mitch is a twitch fast athlete. Hand control grabbing lobs is high. He has demonstrated that he is a defensive player of the year kind of talent. Endless motor.
Mitch does lack fundamentals, late bloomer cause of lack of playing. Zero demonstrated shot. Seems like a worker but really can't tell.
Wiseman has a long way to go to, just like Mitch.
What would convince anyone that Wiseman would be a better big in the NBA than say Onyeka Okongwu, outside of being taller?
Wiseman is a higher end guy than Mitch IMO... I think we are so bad that positions and roster is irrelevant. You take the BPA and go from there. Wiseman was my preseason #1 overall. He was with Penny Hardaway through AAU and came to Memphis and stayed with him. He knows how to play and I think is more complete than Mitch, even though they bring similar stats to the table. I really like how Wiseman seeks out contact and bangs down low. It reminds me of Pat or Zo. I wish we had the tournament to evaluate some of these guys. I will say Wiseman is a bluechip type of guy but we all know this is a guard's league these days. My biggest issue with Wiseman is it is kinda like drafting a RB or WR #1 overall
martin@ 7/24/2020 10:29 AM
SupremeCommander wrote:
martin wrote:I am trying to figure out what people see fundamentally in Wiseman that they think he is more talented than someone like Mitch? Help me understand this. I get that he is more muscular.
Mitch is a twitch fast athlete. Hand control grabbing lobs is high. He has demonstrated that he is a defensive player of the year kind of talent. Endless motor.
Mitch does lack fundamentals, late bloomer cause of lack of playing. Zero demonstrated shot. Seems like a worker but really can't tell.
Wiseman has a long way to go to, just like Mitch.
What would convince anyone that Wiseman would be a better big in the NBA than say Onyeka Okongwu, outside of being taller?
Wiseman is a higher end guy than Mitch IMO... I think we are so bad that positions and roster is irrelevant. You take the BPA and go from there. Wiseman was my preseason #1 overall. He was with Penny Hardaway through AAU and came to Memphis and stayed with him. He knows how to play and I think is more complete than Mitch, even though they bring similar stats to the table. I really like how Wiseman seeks out contact and bangs down low. It reminds me of Pat or Zo. I wish we had the tournament to evaluate some of these guys. I will say Wiseman is a bluechip type of guy but we all know this is a guard's league these days. My biggest issue with Wiseman is it is kinda like drafting a RB or WR #1 overall
So that's what I'm trying to understand. How is he a higher end guy? He likes contact and...?
Uptown@ 7/24/2020 10:55 AM
martin wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
martin wrote:I am trying to figure out what people see fundamentally in Wiseman that they think he is more talented than someone like Mitch? Help me understand this. I get that he is more muscular.
Mitch is a twitch fast athlete. Hand control grabbing lobs is high. He has demonstrated that he is a defensive player of the year kind of talent. Endless motor.
Mitch does lack fundamentals, late bloomer cause of lack of playing. Zero demonstrated shot. Seems like a worker but really can't tell.
Wiseman has a long way to go to, just like Mitch.
What would convince anyone that Wiseman would be a better big in the NBA than say Onyeka Okongwu, outside of being taller?
Wiseman is a higher end guy than Mitch IMO... I think we are so bad that positions and roster is irrelevant. You take the BPA and go from there. Wiseman was my preseason #1 overall. He was with Penny Hardaway through AAU and came to Memphis and stayed with him. He knows how to play and I think is more complete than Mitch, even though they bring similar stats to the table. I really like how Wiseman seeks out contact and bangs down low. It reminds me of Pat or Zo. I wish we had the tournament to evaluate some of these guys. I will say Wiseman is a bluechip type of guy but we all know this is a guard's league these days. My biggest issue with Wiseman is it is kinda like drafting a RB or WR #1 overall
So that's what I'm trying to understand. How is he a higher end guy? He likes contact and...?
The outside shooting, ball handling and offensive moves we watch Mitch perform in summer instagram vids is what Wiseman does in actual games and then some. Its a big jump taking what you learn in training to the actual game. A jump Mitch hasn't made yet and in all honesty, we are not sure he will ever make. Wiseman has already made that jump. Of course, Wiseman still needs a lot more polish but he is a full notch ahead of Mitch on the offensive side of the ball.
Mitch gets his strictly on PNR lobs and put backs. You can legit, throw the ball to Wiseman in the post and he can get you a bucket with his back to the basket or facing up. He's also a threat to get the defender in foul trouble. Mitch is not at this level just yet. With that said, I like Mitch and what he brings to table. I'm not looking to move him, but we are so void of talent, if Wiseman is on the board when he pick, it will be difficult to pass him up...
GustavBahler@ 7/24/2020 10:56 AM
ankurk wrote:agree 100% much higher ceiling than mitch makes mitch tradeable if the right opportunity comes along. until then wiseman/robinson 4/5
Dont know how you can come to this conclusion from that workout clip. Mitch isnt built like Embid, or some of the other bigs. Isnt as fast as Giannis. What Mitch does have, which many bigs dont have at his level, is anticipation. On both ends of the court. Thats how he's able to put on those block parties. How he knows where to be for the monster jam, moving without the ball.
Mitch has set records, gotten the league's attention, in relatively little PT. Cant believe so many posters want to move on to the next shiny object.
TheGame@ 7/24/2020 11:22 AM
I like Wiseman. I think he has the potential to be a Joel Embiid-type player. But the Knicks have needed a top-flight PG for the past 15 years, and I think Mitch is going to be a DeAndre Jordan type center next season. Ball has the potential to be the best PG we have had since Mark Jackson. I think the pick has to be Ball. The only way I draft Wiseman is if I had a trade for Mitch where we move up by trading Mitch and possibly getting Killian Hayes and a future pick. If we came out of the draft with Wiseman and Killian Hayes and a future pick, then I could get behind that move.
Uptown@ 7/24/2020 11:30 AM
TheGame wrote:I like Wiseman. I think he has the potential to be a Joel Embiid-type player. But the Knicks have needed a top-flight PG for the past 15 years, and I think Mitch is going to be a DeAndre Jordan type center next season. Ball has the potential to be the best PG we have had since Mark Jackson. I think the pick has to be Ball. The only way I draft Wiseman is if I had a trade for Mitch where we move up by trading Mitch and possibly getting Killian Hayes and a future pick. If we came out of the draft with Wiseman and Killian Hayes and a future pick, then I could get behind that move.
We need more than just a pg. The cupboard is bare. If Ball is off the board when we pick, I don't want the Knicks to settle for a PG just and leave a more talented prospect on the board because we 'need a pg'.
martin@ 7/24/2020 11:38 AM
Uptown wrote:
martin wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
martin wrote:I am trying to figure out what people see fundamentally in Wiseman that they think he is more talented than someone like Mitch? Help me understand this. I get that he is more muscular.
Mitch is a twitch fast athlete. Hand control grabbing lobs is high. He has demonstrated that he is a defensive player of the year kind of talent. Endless motor.
Mitch does lack fundamentals, late bloomer cause of lack of playing. Zero demonstrated shot. Seems like a worker but really can't tell.
Wiseman has a long way to go to, just like Mitch.
What would convince anyone that Wiseman would be a better big in the NBA than say Onyeka Okongwu, outside of being taller?
Wiseman is a higher end guy than Mitch IMO... I think we are so bad that positions and roster is irrelevant. You take the BPA and go from there. Wiseman was my preseason #1 overall. He was with Penny Hardaway through AAU and came to Memphis and stayed with him. He knows how to play and I think is more complete than Mitch, even though they bring similar stats to the table. I really like how Wiseman seeks out contact and bangs down low. It reminds me of Pat or Zo. I wish we had the tournament to evaluate some of these guys. I will say Wiseman is a bluechip type of guy but we all know this is a guard's league these days. My biggest issue with Wiseman is it is kinda like drafting a RB or WR #1 overall
So that's what I'm trying to understand. How is he a higher end guy? He likes contact and...?
The outside shooting, ball handling and offensive moves we watch Mitch perform in summer instagram vids is what Wiseman does in actual games and then some. Its a big jump taking what you learn in training to the actual game. A jump Mitch hasn't made yet and in all honesty, we are not sure he will ever make. Wiseman has already made that jump. Of course, Wiseman still needs a lot more polish but he is a full notch ahead of Mitch on the offensive side of the ball.
Mitch gets his strictly on PNR lobs and put backs. You can legit, throw the ball to Wiseman in the post and he can get you a bucket with his back to the basket or facing up. He's also a threat to get the defender in foul trouble. Mitch is not at this level just yet. With that said, I like Mitch and what he brings to table. I'm not looking to move him, but we are so void of talent, if Wiseman is on the board when he pick, it will be difficult to pass him up...
It's my understanding that Wiseman has played 3 college games? 2 again some low level teams?
Has he really demonstrated much beyond that?
martin@ 7/24/2020 11:38 AM
Uptown wrote:
TheGame wrote:I like Wiseman. I think he has the potential to be a Joel Embiid-type player. But the Knicks have needed a top-flight PG for the past 15 years, and I think Mitch is going to be a DeAndre Jordan type center next season. Ball has the potential to be the best PG we have had since Mark Jackson. I think the pick has to be Ball. The only way I draft Wiseman is if I had a trade for Mitch where we move up by trading Mitch and possibly getting Killian Hayes and a future pick. If we came out of the draft with Wiseman and Killian Hayes and a future pick, then I could get behind that move.
We need more than just a pg. The cupboard is bare. If Ball is off the board when we pick, I don't want the Knicks to settle for a PG just and leave a more talented prospect on the board because we 'need a pg'.
Same, BPA
Uptown@ 7/24/2020 11:55 AM
martin wrote:
Uptown wrote:
martin wrote:
SupremeCommander wrote:
martin wrote:I am trying to figure out what people see fundamentally in Wiseman that they think he is more talented than someone like Mitch? Help me understand this. I get that he is more muscular.
Mitch is a twitch fast athlete. Hand control grabbing lobs is high. He has demonstrated that he is a defensive player of the year kind of talent. Endless motor.
Mitch does lack fundamentals, late bloomer cause of lack of playing. Zero demonstrated shot. Seems like a worker but really can't tell.
Wiseman has a long way to go to, just like Mitch.
What would convince anyone that Wiseman would be a better big in the NBA than say Onyeka Okongwu, outside of being taller?
Wiseman is a higher end guy than Mitch IMO... I think we are so bad that positions and roster is irrelevant. You take the BPA and go from there. Wiseman was my preseason #1 overall. He was with Penny Hardaway through AAU and came to Memphis and stayed with him. He knows how to play and I think is more complete than Mitch, even though they bring similar stats to the table. I really like how Wiseman seeks out contact and bangs down low. It reminds me of Pat or Zo. I wish we had the tournament to evaluate some of these guys. I will say Wiseman is a bluechip type of guy but we all know this is a guard's league these days. My biggest issue with Wiseman is it is kinda like drafting a RB or WR #1 overall
So that's what I'm trying to understand. How is he a higher end guy? He likes contact and...?
The outside shooting, ball handling and offensive moves we watch Mitch perform in summer instagram vids is what Wiseman does in actual games and then some. Its a big jump taking what you learn in training to the actual game. A jump Mitch hasn't made yet and in all honesty, we are not sure he will ever make. Wiseman has already made that jump. Of course, Wiseman still needs a lot more polish but he is a full notch ahead of Mitch on the offensive side of the ball.
Mitch gets his strictly on PNR lobs and put backs. You can legit, throw the ball to Wiseman in the post and he can get you a bucket with his back to the basket or facing up. He's also a threat to get the defender in foul trouble. Mitch is not at this level just yet. With that said, I like Mitch and what he brings to table. I'm not looking to move him, but we are so void of talent, if Wiseman is on the board when he pick, it will be difficult to pass him up...
It's my understanding that Wiseman has played 3 college games? 2 again some low level teams?
Has he really demonstrated much beyond that?
It's a small sample size, agreed. But, I have seen Wiseman catch the ball in the post, square-up and knock down 12 footers. I've seen him attempt jump hooks, and he is capable of putting the ball on the floor and make himself a threat offensively. We have yet to see Mitch attempt any of these skill sets in actual games.
With that said, I like Mitch better on the defensive end. Better lateral quickness on the perimeter and better shot blocker mainly because he uses his left hand to block shots.
Uptown@ 7/24/2020 11:56 AM
Starting at the 4:45 mark, you get to see some of his potential offensively...
NYKBocker@ 7/24/2020 1:03 PM
Uptown wrote:Starting at the 4:45 mark, you get to see some of his potential offensively...
Looking at that, I see Mitch doing the same things.
BigDaddyG@ 7/24/2020 1:10 PM
BRIGGS wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Can he play PF, or is he definitely a C?
I think he can cross to the 4. These guys are all 4-5s anyway/- most of them
You haven't been paying attention. No, he hasn't shown he can guard college 4s, forget about pros. He's a center at this point, and he still has improvements to make defensively there.
