GustavBahler wrote:Thats rough. Contact injury, bad luck. For those who say KP isnt a top 25 player because he isnt "all-star caliber". You make an all-star team, you're All-Star caliber.
I'd put KP in the 20's. Hard to say where because he doesnt go on very long stretches, where he's injury free. Has to keep working himself back into the rotation, the swing of things.
I guess the only way to do this is to list the players (in no order):
1) Lebron
2) Kawhi
3) Durant
4) Curry
5) Jokic
6) Giannis
7) Harden
8) Anthony Davis
9) Luka
10) Lillard
11) Chris Paul
12) Embiid
13) Jimmy Butler
14) Jason Tatum
15) Randle
16) Klay Thompson (healthy)
17) Paul George
18) Devin Booker
19) Kyrie Irving
20) Tre Young
21) Zion Williamson
22) Brandon Ingram
23) Donovan Mitchell
24) Bradley Beal
25) Ja Morant
26) Zach Lavine
27) Nikola Vučević
28) Russel Westbrook
29) Jaylen Brown
30) Ben Simmons
31) Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
32) Karl Anthony Towns
33) Bam Adebayo
Who on this list do you put KP ahead of?
Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Thats rough. Contact injury, bad luck. For those who say KP isnt a top 25 player because he isnt "all-star caliber". You make an all-star team, you're All-Star caliber.
I'd put KP in the 20's. Hard to say where because he doesnt go on very long stretches, where he's injury free. Has to keep working himself back into the rotation, the swing of things.
I guess the only way to do this is to list the players (in no order):1) Lebron
2) Kawhi
3) Durant
4) Curry
5) Jokic
6) Giannis
7) Harden
8) Anthony Davis
9) Luka
10) Lillard
11) Chris Paul
12) Embiid
13) Jimmy Butler
14) Jason Tatum
15) Randle
16) Klay Thompson (healthy)
17) Paul George
18) Devin Booker
19) Kyrie Irving
20) Tre Young
21) Zion Williamson
22) Brandon Ingram
23) Donovan Mitchell
24) Bradley Beal
25) Ja Morant
26) Zach Lavine
27) Nikola Vučević
28) Russel Westbrook
29) Jaylen Brown
30) Ben Simmons
31) Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
32) Karl Anthony Towns
Who on this list do you put KP ahead of?
I already did it. KP is more skilled than several players on this list. The numbers dont tell the whole story. KP's injuries have prevented that.
Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Thats rough. Contact injury, bad luck. For those who say KP isnt a top 25 player because he isnt "all-star caliber". You make an all-star team, you're All-Star caliber.
I'd put KP in the 20's. Hard to say where because he doesnt go on very long stretches, where he's injury free. Has to keep working himself back into the rotation, the swing of things.
I guess the only way to do this is to list the players (in no order):1) Lebron
2) Kawhi
3) Durant
4) Curry
5) Jokic
6) Giannis
7) Harden
8) Anthony Davis
9) Luka
10) Lillard
11) Chris Paul
12) Embiid
13) Jimmy Butler
14) Jason Tatum
15) Randle
16) Klay Thompson (healthy)
17) Paul George
18) Devin Booker
19) Kyrie Irving
20) Tre Young
21) Zion Williamson
22) Brandon Ingram
23) Donovan Mitchell
24) Bradley Beal
25) Ja Morant
26) Zach Lavine
27) Nikola Vučević
28) Russel Westbrook
29) Jaylen Brown
30) Ben Simmons
31) Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
32) Karl Anthony Towns
Who on this list do you put KP ahead of?
You can make a case for him towards the bottom -- if he's on the court.
BTW I put RJ ahead of him.
GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Thats rough. Contact injury, bad luck. For those who say KP isnt a top 25 player because he isnt "all-star caliber". You make an all-star team, you're All-Star caliber.
I'd put KP in the 20's. Hard to say where because he doesnt go on very long stretches, where he's injury free. Has to keep working himself back into the rotation, the swing of things.
I guess the only way to do this is to list the players (in no order):1) Lebron
2) Kawhi
3) Durant
4) Curry
5) Jokic
6) Giannis
7) Harden
8) Anthony Davis
9) Luka
10) Lillard
11) Chris Paul
12) Embiid
13) Jimmy Butler
14) Jason Tatum
15) Randle
16) Klay Thompson (healthy)
17) Paul George
18) Devin Booker
19) Kyrie Irving
20) Tre Young
21) Zion Williamson
22) Brandon Ingram
23) Donovan Mitchell
24) Bradley Beal
25) Ja Morant
26) Zach Lavine
27) Nikola Vučević
28) Russel Westbrook
29) Jaylen Brown
30) Ben Simmons
31) Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
32) Karl Anthony Towns
Who on this list do you put KP ahead of?
I already did it. KP is more skilled than several players on this list. The numbers dont tell the whole story. KP's injuries have prevented that.
Now it looks like the question is being changed. Is the question "who is more skilled" or "who is the better player?" If it's about "skill" or "talent" you may need to put Anthony Edwards on the list, but who cares? To me, what matters is "
who are the best players."
Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Thats rough. Contact injury, bad luck. For those who say KP isnt a top 25 player because he isnt "all-star caliber". You make an all-star team, you're All-Star caliber.
I'd put KP in the 20's. Hard to say where because he doesnt go on very long stretches, where he's injury free. Has to keep working himself back into the rotation, the swing of things.
I guess the only way to do this is to list the players (in no order):1) Lebron
2) Kawhi
3) Durant
4) Curry
5) Jokic
6) Giannis
7) Harden
8) Anthony Davis
9) Luka
10) Lillard
11) Chris Paul
12) Embiid
13) Jimmy Butler
14) Jason Tatum
15) Randle
16) Klay Thompson (healthy)
17) Paul George
18) Devin Booker
19) Kyrie Irving
20) Tre Young
21) Zion Williamson
22) Brandon Ingram
23) Donovan Mitchell
24) Bradley Beal
25) Ja Morant
26) Zach Lavine
27) Nikola Vučević
28) Russel Westbrook
29) Jaylen Brown
30) Ben Simmons
31) Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
32) Karl Anthony Towns
Who on this list do you put KP ahead of?
I already did it. KP is more skilled than several players on this list. The numbers dont tell the whole story. KP's injuries have prevented that.
Now it looks like the question is being changed. Is the question "who is more skilled" or "who is the better player?" If it's about "skill" or "talent" you may need to put Anthony Edwards on the list, but who cares? To me, what matters is "who are the best players."
This subject started upthread. Made it clear from my first comment, I was talking about skillset, not production. Why I said it was hard to rank him because KP isnt on the court long enough to get a decent sample size. A lot of time spent getting back into a rhythm.
GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Thats rough. Contact injury, bad luck. For those who say KP isnt a top 25 player because he isnt "all-star caliber". You make an all-star team, you're All-Star caliber.
I'd put KP in the 20's. Hard to say where because he doesnt go on very long stretches, where he's injury free. Has to keep working himself back into the rotation, the swing of things.
I guess the only way to do this is to list the players (in no order):1) Lebron
2) Kawhi
3) Durant
4) Curry
5) Jokic
6) Giannis
7) Harden
8) Anthony Davis
9) Luka
10) Lillard
11) Chris Paul
12) Embiid
13) Jimmy Butler
14) Jason Tatum
15) Randle
16) Klay Thompson (healthy)
17) Paul George
18) Devin Booker
19) Kyrie Irving
20) Tre Young
21) Zion Williamson
22) Brandon Ingram
23) Donovan Mitchell
24) Bradley Beal
25) Ja Morant
26) Zach Lavine
27) Nikola Vučević
28) Russel Westbrook
29) Jaylen Brown
30) Ben Simmons
31) Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
32) Karl Anthony Towns
Who on this list do you put KP ahead of?
I already did it. KP is more skilled than several players on this list. The numbers dont tell the whole story. KP's injuries have prevented that.
Now it looks like the question is being changed. Is the question "who is more skilled" or "who is the better player?" If it's about "skill" or "talent" you may need to put Anthony Edwards on the list, but who cares? To me, what matters is "who are the best players."
This subject started upthread. Made it clear from my first comment, I was talking about skillset, not production. Why I said it was hard to rank him because KP isnt on the court long enough to get a decent sample size. A lot of time spent getting back into a rhythm.
Skill-wise and what he may have the "potential" to produce on any given night, I might agree. I just don't think it matters much if it stays in the tank or if the potential is frequently sitting on the bench hurt.
So I would hope you would agree that he's not one of the top 30 players in the league.
Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Thats rough. Contact injury, bad luck. For those who say KP isnt a top 25 player because he isnt "all-star caliber". You make an all-star team, you're All-Star caliber.
I'd put KP in the 20's. Hard to say where because he doesnt go on very long stretches, where he's injury free. Has to keep working himself back into the rotation, the swing of things.
I guess the only way to do this is to list the players (in no order):1) Lebron
2) Kawhi
3) Durant
4) Curry
5) Jokic
6) Giannis
7) Harden
8) Anthony Davis
9) Luka
10) Lillard
11) Chris Paul
12) Embiid
13) Jimmy Butler
14) Jason Tatum
15) Randle
16) Klay Thompson (healthy)
17) Paul George
18) Devin Booker
19) Kyrie Irving
20) Tre Young
21) Zion Williamson
22) Brandon Ingram
23) Donovan Mitchell
24) Bradley Beal
25) Ja Morant
26) Zach Lavine
27) Nikola Vučević
28) Russel Westbrook
29) Jaylen Brown
30) Ben Simmons
31) Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
32) Karl Anthony Towns
Who on this list do you put KP ahead of?
I already did it. KP is more skilled than several players on this list. The numbers dont tell the whole story. KP's injuries have prevented that.
Now it looks like the question is being changed. Is the question "who is more skilled" or "who is the better player?" If it's about "skill" or "talent" you may need to put Anthony Edwards on the list, but who cares? To me, what matters is "who are the best players."
This subject started upthread. Made it clear from my first comment, I was talking about skillset, not production. Why I said it was hard to rank him because KP isnt on the court long enough to get a decent sample size. A lot of time spent getting back into a rhythm.
Skill-wise and what he may have the "potential" to produce on any given night, I might agree. I just don't think it matters much of it stays in the tank or if the potential is frequently sitting on the bench hurt.So I would hope you would agree that he's not one of the top 30 players in the league.
By your metric no, by mine yes.
He just had a ankle injury, boy that's bad for him but good for our pick I guess. hope he gets well.
GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Thats rough. Contact injury, bad luck. For those who say KP isnt a top 25 player because he isnt "all-star caliber". You make an all-star team, you're All-Star caliber.
I'd put KP in the 20's. Hard to say where because he doesnt go on very long stretches, where he's injury free. Has to keep working himself back into the rotation, the swing of things.
I guess the only way to do this is to list the players (in no order):1) Lebron
2) Kawhi
3) Durant
4) Curry
5) Jokic
6) Giannis
7) Harden
8) Anthony Davis
9) Luka
10) Lillard
11) Chris Paul
12) Embiid
13) Jimmy Butler
14) Jason Tatum
15) Randle
16) Klay Thompson (healthy)
17) Paul George
18) Devin Booker
19) Kyrie Irving
20) Tre Young
21) Zion Williamson
22) Brandon Ingram
23) Donovan Mitchell
24) Bradley Beal
25) Ja Morant
26) Zach Lavine
27) Nikola Vučević
28) Russel Westbrook
29) Jaylen Brown
30) Ben Simmons
31) Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
32) Karl Anthony Towns
Who on this list do you put KP ahead of?
I already did it. KP is more skilled than several players on this list. The numbers dont tell the whole story. KP's injuries have prevented that.
Now it looks like the question is being changed. Is the question "who is more skilled" or "who is the better player?" If it's about "skill" or "talent" you may need to put Anthony Edwards on the list, but who cares? To me, what matters is "who are the best players."
This subject started upthread. Made it clear from my first comment, I was talking about skillset, not production. Why I said it was hard to rank him because KP isnt on the court long enough to get a decent sample size. A lot of time spent getting back into a rhythm.
Skill-wise and what he may have the "potential" to produce on any given night, I might agree. I just don't think it matters much of it stays in the tank or if the potential is frequently sitting on the bench hurt.So I would hope you would agree that he's not one of the top 30 players in the league.
By your metric no, by mine yes.
I'll make it super easy. How about KP being in the top 30 of unrealized potential in the league? Top 5 even? He might even make it in to the Hall of Fame of players who could have been the leagues top players if not for injuries. Right up there with the great Greg Oden and such. Truly top players. But not in NBA, not in the fantasy league. The world definitely needs a new category to have him be a leader of. Too much of a unicorn 🦄 for the reality
ramtour420 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Thats rough. Contact injury, bad luck. For those who say KP isnt a top 25 player because he isnt "all-star caliber". You make an all-star team, you're All-Star caliber.
I'd put KP in the 20's. Hard to say where because he doesnt go on very long stretches, where he's injury free. Has to keep working himself back into the rotation, the swing of things.
I guess the only way to do this is to list the players (in no order):1) Lebron
2) Kawhi
3) Durant
4) Curry
5) Jokic
6) Giannis
7) Harden
8) Anthony Davis
9) Luka
10) Lillard
11) Chris Paul
12) Embiid
13) Jimmy Butler
14) Jason Tatum
15) Randle
16) Klay Thompson (healthy)
17) Paul George
18) Devin Booker
19) Kyrie Irving
20) Tre Young
21) Zion Williamson
22) Brandon Ingram
23) Donovan Mitchell
24) Bradley Beal
25) Ja Morant
26) Zach Lavine
27) Nikola Vučević
28) Russel Westbrook
29) Jaylen Brown
30) Ben Simmons
31) Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
32) Karl Anthony Towns
Who on this list do you put KP ahead of?
I already did it. KP is more skilled than several players on this list. The numbers dont tell the whole story. KP's injuries have prevented that.
Now it looks like the question is being changed. Is the question "who is more skilled" or "who is the better player?" If it's about "skill" or "talent" you may need to put Anthony Edwards on the list, but who cares? To me, what matters is "who are the best players."
This subject started upthread. Made it clear from my first comment, I was talking about skillset, not production. Why I said it was hard to rank him because KP isnt on the court long enough to get a decent sample size. A lot of time spent getting back into a rhythm.
Skill-wise and what he may have the "potential" to produce on any given night, I might agree. I just don't think it matters much of it stays in the tank or if the potential is frequently sitting on the bench hurt.So I would hope you would agree that he's not one of the top 30 players in the league.
By your metric no, by mine yes.
I'll make it super easy. How about KP being in the top 30 of unrealized potential in the league? Top 5 even? He might even make it in to the Hall of Fame of players who could have been the leagues top players if not for injuries. Right up there with the great Greg Oden and such. Truly top players. But not in NBA, not in the fantasy league. The world definitely needs a new category to have him be a leader of. Too much of a unicorn 🦄 for the reality
The thing about potential is you can project someone to be as great as you want them to me and nobody can dispute it because there's no way to disprove it. Andrea Bargnani had an incredible combination of size and skill potential. What did it ultimately result in? So to me, who cares where KP ranks in terms of his skill potential with regard to who are the best players in the league? I only care about where is he ultimately going to land in terms of results on the floor. Where is he going to rank among current players? I don't see how anyone can objectively consider him one of the top 25 players in the league right now. What he could "potentially" become is an entirely different discussion.
ramtour420 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Thats rough. Contact injury, bad luck. For those who say KP isnt a top 25 player because he isnt "all-star caliber". You make an all-star team, you're All-Star caliber.
I'd put KP in the 20's. Hard to say where because he doesnt go on very long stretches, where he's injury free. Has to keep working himself back into the rotation, the swing of things.
I guess the only way to do this is to list the players (in no order):1) Lebron
2) Kawhi
3) Durant
4) Curry
5) Jokic
6) Giannis
7) Harden
8) Anthony Davis
9) Luka
10) Lillard
11) Chris Paul
12) Embiid
13) Jimmy Butler
14) Jason Tatum
15) Randle
16) Klay Thompson (healthy)
17) Paul George
18) Devin Booker
19) Kyrie Irving
20) Tre Young
21) Zion Williamson
22) Brandon Ingram
23) Donovan Mitchell
24) Bradley Beal
25) Ja Morant
26) Zach Lavine
27) Nikola Vučević
28) Russel Westbrook
29) Jaylen Brown
30) Ben Simmons
31) Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
32) Karl Anthony Towns
Who on this list do you put KP ahead of?
I already did it. KP is more skilled than several players on this list. The numbers dont tell the whole story. KP's injuries have prevented that.
Now it looks like the question is being changed. Is the question "who is more skilled" or "who is the better player?" If it's about "skill" or "talent" you may need to put Anthony Edwards on the list, but who cares? To me, what matters is "who are the best players."
This subject started upthread. Made it clear from my first comment, I was talking about skillset, not production. Why I said it was hard to rank him because KP isnt on the court long enough to get a decent sample size. A lot of time spent getting back into a rhythm.
Skill-wise and what he may have the "potential" to produce on any given night, I might agree. I just don't think it matters much of it stays in the tank or if the potential is frequently sitting on the bench hurt.So I would hope you would agree that he's not one of the top 30 players in the league.
By your metric no, by mine yes.
I'll make it super easy. How about KP being in the top 30 of unrealized potential in the league? Top 5 even? He might even make it in to the Hall of Fame of players who could have been the leagues top players if not for injuries. Right up there with the great Greg Oden and such. Truly top players. But not in NBA, not in the fantasy league. The world definitely needs a new category to have him be a leader of. Too much of a unicorn 🦄 for the reality
What a pissy little comment. I dont know how long it takes you to figure out how good a player is, To project how far they can take that talent, you need to get an extended look. Difficult if they have trouble staying healthy. Doesnt mean that you cant see that they already have definable skills. Maybe you cant IDK.
Greg Oden wasnt nearly as skilled as KP. He was an old school big. Couldnt drain the 3, take guards off the dribble. Defend guards. Porzingis has skills, how much better he will get depends on his health. If my stating that upsets you, thats your problem.
GustavBahler wrote:ramtour420 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Thats rough. Contact injury, bad luck. For those who say KP isnt a top 25 player because he isnt "all-star caliber". You make an all-star team, you're All-Star caliber.
I'd put KP in the 20's. Hard to say where because he doesnt go on very long stretches, where he's injury free. Has to keep working himself back into the rotation, the swing of things.
I guess the only way to do this is to list the players (in no order):1) Lebron
2) Kawhi
3) Durant
4) Curry
5) Jokic
6) Giannis
7) Harden
8) Anthony Davis
9) Luka
10) Lillard
11) Chris Paul
12) Embiid
13) Jimmy Butler
14) Jason Tatum
15) Randle
16) Klay Thompson (healthy)
17) Paul George
18) Devin Booker
19) Kyrie Irving
20) Tre Young
21) Zion Williamson
22) Brandon Ingram
23) Donovan Mitchell
24) Bradley Beal
25) Ja Morant
26) Zach Lavine
27) Nikola Vučević
28) Russel Westbrook
29) Jaylen Brown
30) Ben Simmons
31) Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
32) Karl Anthony Towns
Who on this list do you put KP ahead of?
I already did it. KP is more skilled than several players on this list. The numbers dont tell the whole story. KP's injuries have prevented that.
Now it looks like the question is being changed. Is the question "who is more skilled" or "who is the better player?" If it's about "skill" or "talent" you may need to put Anthony Edwards on the list, but who cares? To me, what matters is "who are the best players."
This subject started upthread. Made it clear from my first comment, I was talking about skillset, not production. Why I said it was hard to rank him because KP isnt on the court long enough to get a decent sample size. A lot of time spent getting back into a rhythm.
Skill-wise and what he may have the "potential" to produce on any given night, I might agree. I just don't think it matters much of it stays in the tank or if the potential is frequently sitting on the bench hurt.So I would hope you would agree that he's not one of the top 30 players in the league.
By your metric no, by mine yes.
I'll make it super easy. How about KP being in the top 30 of unrealized potential in the league? Top 5 even? He might even make it in to the Hall of Fame of players who could have been the leagues top players if not for injuries. Right up there with the great Greg Oden and such. Truly top players. But not in NBA, not in the fantasy league. The world definitely needs a new category to have him be a leader of. Too much of a unicorn 🦄 for the reality
What a pissy little comment. I dont know how long it takes you to figure out how good a player is, To project how far they can take that talent, you need to get an extended look. Difficult if they have trouble staying healthy. Doesnt mean that you cant see that they already have definable skills. Maybe you cant IDK.
Greg Oden wasnt nearly as skilled as KP. He was an old school big. Couldnt drain the 3, take guards off the dribble. Defend guards. Porzingis has skills, how much better he will get depends on his health. If my stating that upsets you, thats your problem.
But it's not just health with KP. If we were talking about Embiid I would accept that. KP, so far in his career, has questions about his heart, has questions about whether or not he's soft, and has questions about how he impacts the overall team performance. If you substitute Randle or Embiid for KP would Philly or the Knicks be where we are now? It's more than health with KP with regard to his status among the league's best.
Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Thats rough. Contact injury, bad luck. For those who say KP isnt a top 25 player because he isnt "all-star caliber". You make an all-star team, you're All-Star caliber.
I'd put KP in the 20's. Hard to say where because he doesnt go on very long stretches, where he's injury free. Has to keep working himself back into the rotation, the swing of things.
I guess the only way to do this is to list the players (in no order):1) Lebron
2) Kawhi
3) Durant
4) Curry
5) Jokic
6) Giannis
7) Harden
8) Anthony Davis
9) Luka
10) Lillard
11) Chris Paul
12) Embiid
13) Jimmy Butler
14) Jason Tatum
15) Randle
16) Klay Thompson (healthy)
17) Paul George
18) Devin Booker
19) Kyrie Irving
20) Tre Young
21) Zion Williamson
22) Brandon Ingram
23) Donovan Mitchell
24) Bradley Beal
25) Ja Morant
26) Zach Lavine
27) Nikola Vučević
28) Russel Westbrook
29) Jaylen Brown
30) Ben Simmons
31) Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
32) Karl Anthony Towns
33) Bam Adebayo
Who on this list do you put KP ahead of?
17) Paul George 22) Brandon Ingram 26) Zach Lavine 31) Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
If this isnt enough for you to believe that KP is skilled enough to be considered a top 30 player, dont know what else to tell you.
As a 21-year-old in 2016-17, Porzingis became one of three players in NBA history, 22 years or younger, to make 100-plus 3-pointers and block 100-plus shots in a season (Dirk Nowitzki, 2000-01; Karl-Anthony Towns, 2016-17 and 2017-18). He was named an All-Star in 2018 but did not play due to injury.Porzingis has earned Player of the Week honors twice in his career (Eastern Conference POW, Oct. 30 to Nov. 5, 2017; Western Conference POW, Feb. 24 to March 1, 2020). In 2019-20, “The Unicorn” became the fastest player to 400-plus 3-pointers made and 400-plus blocks in NBA history (233 games). He also became one of five players in league history to record at least 4,000 points, 1,500 rebounds, 400 3-pointers made and 400 blocks before his 25th birthday (LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Tracy McGrady, Towns). Porzingis has produced the only two games with at least 35 points, 10 rebounds, five blocks and five 3-pointers made in NBA history (37 points, 11 rebounds, five blocks and five 3s vs. the L.A. Lakers on Dec. 12, 2017; 38 points, 13 boards, five blocks and six 3s at Minnesota on March 1, 2020).
Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:ramtour420 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Thats rough. Contact injury, bad luck. For those who say KP isnt a top 25 player because he isnt "all-star caliber". You make an all-star team, you're All-Star caliber.
I'd put KP in the 20's. Hard to say where because he doesnt go on very long stretches, where he's injury free. Has to keep working himself back into the rotation, the swing of things.
I guess the only way to do this is to list the players (in no order):1) Lebron
2) Kawhi
3) Durant
4) Curry
5) Jokic
6) Giannis
7) Harden
8) Anthony Davis
9) Luka
10) Lillard
11) Chris Paul
12) Embiid
13) Jimmy Butler
14) Jason Tatum
15) Randle
16) Klay Thompson (healthy)
17) Paul George
18) Devin Booker
19) Kyrie Irving
20) Tre Young
21) Zion Williamson
22) Brandon Ingram
23) Donovan Mitchell
24) Bradley Beal
25) Ja Morant
26) Zach Lavine
27) Nikola Vučević
28) Russel Westbrook
29) Jaylen Brown
30) Ben Simmons
31) Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
32) Karl Anthony Towns
Who on this list do you put KP ahead of?
I already did it. KP is more skilled than several players on this list. The numbers dont tell the whole story. KP's injuries have prevented that.
Now it looks like the question is being changed. Is the question "who is more skilled" or "who is the better player?" If it's about "skill" or "talent" you may need to put Anthony Edwards on the list, but who cares? To me, what matters is "who are the best players."
This subject started upthread. Made it clear from my first comment, I was talking about skillset, not production. Why I said it was hard to rank him because KP isnt on the court long enough to get a decent sample size. A lot of time spent getting back into a rhythm.
Skill-wise and what he may have the "potential" to produce on any given night, I might agree. I just don't think it matters much of it stays in the tank or if the potential is frequently sitting on the bench hurt.So I would hope you would agree that he's not one of the top 30 players in the league.
By your metric no, by mine yes.
I'll make it super easy. How about KP being in the top 30 of unrealized potential in the league? Top 5 even? He might even make it in to the Hall of Fame of players who could have been the leagues top players if not for injuries. Right up there with the great Greg Oden and such. Truly top players. But not in NBA, not in the fantasy league. The world definitely needs a new category to have him be a leader of. Too much of a unicorn 🦄 for the reality
What a pissy little comment. I dont know how long it takes you to figure out how good a player is, To project how far they can take that talent, you need to get an extended look. Difficult if they have trouble staying healthy. Doesnt mean that you cant see that they already have definable skills. Maybe you cant IDK.
Greg Oden wasnt nearly as skilled as KP. He was an old school big. Couldnt drain the 3, take guards off the dribble. Defend guards. Porzingis has skills, how much better he will get depends on his health. If my stating that upsets you, thats your problem.
But it's not just health with KP. If we were talking about Embiid I would accept that. KP, so far in his career, has questions about his heart, has questions about whether or not he's soft, and has questions about how he impacts the overall team performance. If you substitute Randle or Embiid for KP would Philly or the Knicks be where we are now? It's more than health with KP with regard to his status among the league's best.
KP was a soft b tch when he played here. Look at how aggressive Randle is on offense especially in big spots. You never had that with Doucheingis
GustavBahler wrote:If this isnt enough for you to believe that KP is skilled enough to be considered a top 30 player, dont know what else to tell you. As a 21-year-old in 2016-17, Porzingis became one of three players in NBA history, 22 years or younger, to make 100-plus 3-pointers and block 100-plus shots in a season (Dirk Nowitzki, 2000-01; Karl-Anthony Towns, 2016-17 and 2017-18). He was named an All-Star in 2018 but did not play due to injury.Porzingis has earned Player of the Week honors twice in his career (Eastern Conference POW, Oct. 30 to Nov. 5, 2017; Western Conference POW, Feb. 24 to March 1, 2020). In 2019-20, “The Unicorn” became the fastest player to 400-plus 3-pointers made and 400-plus blocks in NBA history (233 games). He also became one of five players in league history to record at least 4,000 points, 1,500 rebounds, 400 3-pointers made and 400 blocks before his 25th birthday (LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Tracy McGrady, Towns). Porzingis has produced the only two games with at least 35 points, 10 rebounds, five blocks and five 3-pointers made in NBA history (37 points, 11 rebounds, five blocks and five 3s vs. the L.A. Lakers on Dec. 12, 2017; 38 points, 13 boards, five blocks and six 3s at Minnesota on March 1, 2020).
A “top 30” player who never plays and has become a turnstile on defense
Philc1 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:If this isnt enough for you to believe that KP is skilled enough to be considered a top 30 player, dont know what else to tell you. As a 21-year-old in 2016-17, Porzingis became one of three players in NBA history, 22 years or younger, to make 100-plus 3-pointers and block 100-plus shots in a season (Dirk Nowitzki, 2000-01; Karl-Anthony Towns, 2016-17 and 2017-18). He was named an All-Star in 2018 but did not play due to injury.Porzingis has earned Player of the Week honors twice in his career (Eastern Conference POW, Oct. 30 to Nov. 5, 2017; Western Conference POW, Feb. 24 to March 1, 2020). In 2019-20, “The Unicorn” became the fastest player to 400-plus 3-pointers made and 400-plus blocks in NBA history (233 games). He also became one of five players in league history to record at least 4,000 points, 1,500 rebounds, 400 3-pointers made and 400 blocks before his 25th birthday (LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Tracy McGrady, Towns). Porzingis has produced the only two games with at least 35 points, 10 rebounds, five blocks and five 3-pointers made in NBA history (37 points, 11 rebounds, five blocks and five 3s vs. the L.A. Lakers on Dec. 12, 2017; 38 points, 13 boards, five blocks and six 3s at Minnesota on March 1, 2020).
A “top 30” player who never plays and has become a turnstile on defense
You didnt think that through. Missed all those games yet produced at a level that only a handful of future HOFers could manage, on both sides of the ball. Wasnt a fan of the way he left. Wont pretend like he never was any good. Silly.
GustavBahler wrote:ramtour420 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Welpee wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Thats rough. Contact injury, bad luck. For those who say KP isnt a top 25 player because he isnt "all-star caliber". You make an all-star team, you're All-Star caliber.
I'd put KP in the 20's. Hard to say where because he doesnt go on very long stretches, where he's injury free. Has to keep working himself back into the rotation, the swing of things.
I guess the only way to do this is to list the players (in no order):1) Lebron
2) Kawhi
3) Durant
4) Curry
5) Jokic
6) Giannis
7) Harden
8) Anthony Davis
9) Luka
10) Lillard
11) Chris Paul
12) Embiid
13) Jimmy Butler
14) Jason Tatum
15) Randle
16) Klay Thompson (healthy)
17) Paul George
18) Devin Booker
19) Kyrie Irving
20) Tre Young
21) Zion Williamson
22) Brandon Ingram
23) Donovan Mitchell
24) Bradley Beal
25) Ja Morant
26) Zach Lavine
27) Nikola Vučević
28) Russel Westbrook
29) Jaylen Brown
30) Ben Simmons
31) Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
32) Karl Anthony Towns
Who on this list do you put KP ahead of?
I already did it. KP is more skilled than several players on this list. The numbers dont tell the whole story. KP's injuries have prevented that.
Now it looks like the question is being changed. Is the question "who is more skilled" or "who is the better player?" If it's about "skill" or "talent" you may need to put Anthony Edwards on the list, but who cares? To me, what matters is "who are the best players."
This subject started upthread. Made it clear from my first comment, I was talking about skillset, not production. Why I said it was hard to rank him because KP isnt on the court long enough to get a decent sample size. A lot of time spent getting back into a rhythm.
Skill-wise and what he may have the "potential" to produce on any given night, I might agree. I just don't think it matters much of it stays in the tank or if the potential is frequently sitting on the bench hurt.So I would hope you would agree that he's not one of the top 30 players in the league.
By your metric no, by mine yes.
I'll make it super easy. How about KP being in the top 30 of unrealized potential in the league? Top 5 even? He might even make it in to the Hall of Fame of players who could have been the leagues top players if not for injuries. Right up there with the great Greg Oden and such. Truly top players. But not in NBA, not in the fantasy league. The world definitely needs a new category to have him be a leader of. Too much of a unicorn 🦄 for the reality
What a pissy little comment. I dont know how long it takes you to figure out how good a player is, To project how far they can take that talent, you need to get an extended look. Difficult if they have trouble staying healthy. Doesnt mean that you cant see that they already have definable skills. Maybe you cant IDK.
Greg Oden wasnt nearly as skilled as KP. He was an old school big. Couldnt drain the 3, take guards off the dribble. Defend guards. Porzingis has skills, how much better he will get depends on his health. If my stating that upsets you, thats your problem.
Hahaha, did I sound upset? Not even close. You calling my comments "pissy" probably means that I am not the one that has a "problem". 
Anyway, did I say something that's not true?
How about this. Special skills? Sure, he is a unicorn 🦄
Let's me ask you this, out of the top 30 centers listed who is a worse rebounder than KP? Is that crickets? Hahaha, I thought so. Riddle me this then next, out of the centers in the top 30 who shoots a lower fg% Oohhh, damn. That's cold.But I am not making this up. I am just talking about his skills right there. Maybe we should expand the list to top 50 players. Probably wouldn't help his cause, hehe. Can anyone say empty stats?
Is being available a skill? Sure it is. The guy is a bumbling wreck of assorted injuries out there. What do you think about that? Maybe we should look at how clutch he is? That's a skill too you know. In another thread we compared Melo's clutchness to that of Kobe. Let's me tell you something now, KP is not in that convo and if we did compare him I can assure you he would come up as a choker of highest order. How can I say that without even looking up the numbers? Well because KP is a little girl when compared to clutch backetball players. Is leadership a skill? So far it has not been reflected by any type of metrics. If it was, how's that working out for "Mr. This teams progress is not good enough for me"? See the sulking after Luka's game winner for the answer.
GustavBahler wrote:If this isnt enough for you to believe that KP is skilled enough to be considered a top 30 player, dont know what else to tell you. As a 21-year-old in 2016-17, Porzingis became one of three players in NBA history, 22 years or younger, to make 100-plus 3-pointers and block 100-plus shots in a season (Dirk Nowitzki, 2000-01; Karl-Anthony Towns, 2016-17 and 2017-18). He was named an All-Star in 2018 but did not play due to injury.Porzingis has earned Player of the Week honors twice in his career (Eastern Conference POW, Oct. 30 to Nov. 5, 2017; Western Conference POW, Feb. 24 to March 1, 2020). In 2019-20, “The Unicorn” became the fastest player to 400-plus 3-pointers made and 400-plus blocks in NBA history (233 games). He also became one of five players in league history to record at least 4,000 points, 1,500 rebounds, 400 3-pointers made and 400 blocks before his 25th birthday (LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Tracy McGrady, Towns). Porzingis has produced the only two games with at least 35 points, 10 rebounds, five blocks and five 3-pointers made in NBA history (37 points, 11 rebounds, five blocks and five 3s vs. the L.A. Lakers on Dec. 12, 2017; 38 points, 13 boards, five blocks and six 3s at Minnesota on March 1, 2020).
Let me give you an example of how meaningless those type of stats are. I calculated this last year so I don't know if it still applies to this year and I'm trying to do this off of memory so forgive me if I'm off.
In the history of the NBA there are only seven players who for their career averaged 18+ ppg, 6+ assists per game, shot over 47% fg, 80%+ from the free throw line: Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, Chris Paul, Steph Curry. You know who the seventh guy was...Reggie Theus!
So based on your post, we should consider Reggie Theus on the same level as Big O, Jerry West, Magic, Bird, Chris Paul and Steph Curry, right? Basically what you presented is used car salesman data. Just because technically it's true doesn't make it relevant or in its proper context.
