Knicks · The Miami Heat Model of Team Building for the Knicks (page 5)
djsunyc wrote:the bubble is it's own alternate reality. i'm not sure how much you can truly evaluate what's going on there.the chip counts - there should be no asterisks but i don't know how you can compare this to every other nba season.
Miami sorta has home court advantage
Knixkik wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Miami is going to win championshipI know LeBron and Davis are great
But the cumulative parts on Miami are better
Also ban is mvp of playoffsWith Butler, Bam, and Dragic they really have 3 stars right now. And Herro is becoming at least a system star. Robinson and Crowder have served their purpose as elite role players. It really is the complete team. Honestly i'm very jealous of what they've done and much prefer a squad like this to one where superstars join forces. Obviously Butler and Dragic aren't home grown talents but it feels like a home grown squad in terms of the way their talents have come together. We all want to add superstars but my best case/pipedream scenario is that Barrett's worth ethic combined with our player development staff can turn him into 95% of the player Butler is and we can build a team with their methodology in mind. Develop Robinson to be an anchor like Bam (the offense is a stretch), maybe sign VanVleet as our version of Dragic, and find our own Herro, Robinson, and Crowder thru the draft and smart moves. But who knows. I'll dream.
Van fleet is not Dragic
You could simply sign Dragic?
Nesmith is this years Herro
BRIGGS wrote:Knixkik wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Miami is going to win championshipI know LeBron and Davis are great
But the cumulative parts on Miami are better
Also ban is mvp of playoffsWith Butler, Bam, and Dragic they really have 3 stars right now. And Herro is becoming at least a system star. Robinson and Crowder have served their purpose as elite role players. It really is the complete team. Honestly i'm very jealous of what they've done and much prefer a squad like this to one where superstars join forces. Obviously Butler and Dragic aren't home grown talents but it feels like a home grown squad in terms of the way their talents have come together. We all want to add superstars but my best case/pipedream scenario is that Barrett's worth ethic combined with our player development staff can turn him into 95% of the player Butler is and we can build a team with their methodology in mind. Develop Robinson to be an anchor like Bam (the offense is a stretch), maybe sign VanVleet as our version of Dragic, and find our own Herro, Robinson, and Crowder thru the draft and smart moves. But who knows. I'll dream.
Van fleet is not Dragic
You could simply sign Dragic?
Nesmith is this years Herro
Nesmith could be you’re right. FVV is better at 26 than Dragic was. It’s about projecting out a bit.
BRIGGS wrote:Knixkik wrote:BRIGGS wrote:Miami is going to win championshipI know LeBron and Davis are great
But the cumulative parts on Miami are better
Also ban is mvp of playoffsWith Butler, Bam, and Dragic they really have 3 stars right now. And Herro is becoming at least a system star. Robinson and Crowder have served their purpose as elite role players. It really is the complete team. Honestly i'm very jealous of what they've done and much prefer a squad like this to one where superstars join forces. Obviously Butler and Dragic aren't home grown talents but it feels like a home grown squad in terms of the way their talents have come together. We all want to add superstars but my best case/pipedream scenario is that Barrett's worth ethic combined with our player development staff can turn him into 95% of the player Butler is and we can build a team with their methodology in mind. Develop Robinson to be an anchor like Bam (the offense is a stretch), maybe sign VanVleet as our version of Dragic, and find our own Herro, Robinson, and Crowder thru the draft and smart moves. But who knows. I'll dream.
Van fleet is not Dragic
You could simply sign Dragic?
Nesmith is this years Herro
Briggs I thought about this a bit. I like Nesmith and he could be the best shooter in the draft , but he’s not this years Herro. Nesmith has had opportunity to showcase his ability so much that his numbers probably weren’t sustainable. Thinking of guys like Herro is trying to find someone who is sort of hiding in plain sight. It’s easy to point to other Kentucky guys over the years like booker and Murray. Maxey definitely fits because he’s probably better than he had opportunity to show this year. Vassell is another guy who because of the Florida state system of spreading opportunity around, Vassell really was relegated to a lower usage than he would have most places. This hiding in plain sight will typically be a younger player who sort of Has to pay their dues but will be gone before their opportunity comes. Nesmith is a good player no doubt, but we saw him at his absolute best for 14 games with a system built around him, so scouts should have a better feel for him as a player at the next level. Someone like Maxey we don’t have a clue about him at the next level. Similar to Donavan Mitchell in that sense as well. Mitchell falls into that Herro category. He came into the league and no one really knew what he was as a player in the nba. Maxey sort of falls into that unknown.
TripleThreat wrote:
Yeah I saw this a couple weeks ago. If Philly is that bad then I really don't want to know what we are doing
TPercy wrote:TripleThreat wrote:Yeah I saw this a couple weeks ago. If Philly is that bad then I really don't want to know what we are doing
Comes across as very likeable
smackeddog wrote:TPercy wrote:TripleThreat wrote:Yeah I saw this a couple weeks ago. If Philly is that bad then I really don't want to know what we are doing
Comes across as very likeable
For sure and given his success w/ Miami it makes you think about how bad Philly and Minni were
TPercy wrote:smackeddog wrote:TPercy wrote:TripleThreat wrote:Yeah I saw this a couple weeks ago. If Philly is that bad then I really don't want to know what we are doing
Comes across as very likeable
For sure and given his success w/ Miami it makes you think about how bad Philly and Minni were
The success of Butler makes Simmons, Embiid, and especially Towns and Wiggins all look bad. Towns and Wiggins apparently don’t take the game serious and Butler just ran out of patience. For all we know Thibs probably wanted to trade Towns because you know he would take Butler over Towns, but ownership would have never signed off on it.
Knixkik wrote:TPercy wrote:smackeddog wrote:TPercy wrote:TripleThreat wrote:Yeah I saw this a couple weeks ago. If Philly is that bad then I really don't want to know what we are doing
Comes across as very likeable
For sure and given his success w/ Miami it makes you think about how bad Philly and Minni were
The success of Butler makes Simmons, Embiid, and especially Towns and Wiggins all look bad. Towns and Wiggins apparently don’t take the game serious and Butler just ran out of patience. For all we know Thibs probably wanted to trade Towns because you know he would take Butler over Towns, but ownership would have never signed off on it.
I think it's the same thing with a lot of young guys who come in the league...some players cant take tough coaching
The part he said about the film session (when he played in philly) and no one said a word, they just watch film and went to the practice floor and he walk out scratching his head like.. WTF was the purpose of that....That was hilarious...I just could imaging Fizdales meeting were like that
The fans and FO that kept supporting the tank, never realize the impact it would have on their youth and their development and the culture.
One of the differences in philly's tank yrs, they got super stars out of the process, we got young role players that were 4/5 yrs away from being avg role players.
I just hope Thibs and his staff bring that same tough, hard nose in your face coaching that brings out the best
knicks1248 wrote:Knixkik wrote:TPercy wrote:smackeddog wrote:TPercy wrote:TripleThreat wrote:Yeah I saw this a couple weeks ago. If Philly is that bad then I really don't want to know what we are doing
Comes across as very likeable
For sure and given his success w/ Miami it makes you think about how bad Philly and Minni were
The success of Butler makes Simmons, Embiid, and especially Towns and Wiggins all look bad. Towns and Wiggins apparently don’t take the game serious and Butler just ran out of patience. For all we know Thibs probably wanted to trade Towns because you know he would take Butler over Towns, but ownership would have never signed off on it.
I think it's the same thing with a lot of young guys who come in the league...some players cant take tough coaching
The part he said about the film session (when he played in philly) and no one said a word, they just watch film and went to the practice floor and he walk out scratching his head like.. WTF was the purpose of that....That was hilarious...I just could imaging Fizdales meeting were like that
The fans and FO that kept supporting the tank, never realize the impact it would have on their youth and their development and the culture.
One of the differences in philly's tank yrs, they got super stars out of the process, we got young role players that were 4/5 yrs away from being avg role players.
I just hope Thibs and his staff bring that same tough, hard nose in your face coaching that brings out the best
It's nice that Barrett, who is currently the default face of the franchise, is closer to Butler in term of personality than he is Town or Wiggins. Thibs clearly needs his young players to have the mental makeup for the tough love or it won't matter no matter how talented they are or how strong the vet presence is. We saw it in Minnesota. Look at how Miami is winning right now and remember that Butler had Towns as his sidekick. Butler willed them to the playoffs, but it didn't matter, he knew those young players weren't going anywhere and they weren't going to help him accomplish what he's accomplishing in Miami, championship or not.
They struck gold with Wade had the assets to trade for Shaq
They draft bad as well. They drafted Beas........They did the Whiteside deal. Gave Juwan Howard a record deal only to have stern slap it down and penalize them. Did them a favor actually
Most years outside of the Heatles were hit and miss. Not taking anything away but their success is based on the consistent that is an owner who does not panic when Riles fucks up, and he has, and in turn lets them grow. Same thing with Spoelstra. He let him grow. Riles had the juice to keep a young Lebron from killing his coach and in turn It all worked out.
How long will it take here? I don’t know.
Toronto did a nice job with Masai but he also had some nice assets to build on as well.
Fans have it bad for DOlan and Dolan needs to have thick skin.
I promote patience with the any GM/President even in failure. When pressed they make mistakes.
Phil sucked, but maybe if he made a good deal for KP, we’d be further along? Perhaps.
I think Mills was phuched from day one and he did little to help himself.
Riles was coach and president for a long time in Miami. He build enough cred as a coach to get the gig. Others followed, but few were able to do duel role well. It was a great fad for a while. Bud had it in ATL, Stan Van Grundy in Detroit, Doc rivers, Isiah, and others.
If Leon is to succeed he has to deliver a tangible result inside of three years. If not fans will continue to punish Dolan and he will have to make another move to placate the fan base.
“Godfather” Riley build something special over a long time. We celebrate this unlikely trip to the finals but we can’t really say this is a model.
Leon will have his own path. I think Thibs was a good choice to install an urgency. Fish and Fiz were good ideas but we don’t have the patience for that.
Nalod wrote:Miami has been doing the same thing basically for a very long time.
They struck gold with Wade had the assets to trade for Shaq
They draft bad as well. They drafted Beas........They did the Whiteside deal. Gave Juwan Howard a record deal only to have stern slap it down and penalize them. Did them a favor actually
Most years outside of the Heatles were hit and miss. Not taking anything away but their success is based on the consistent that is an owner who does not panic when Riles fucks up, and he has, and in turn lets them grow. Same thing with Spoelstra. He let him grow. Riles had the juice to keep a young Lebron from killing his coach and in turn It all worked out.
How long will it take here? I don’t know.
Toronto did a nice job with Masai but he also had some nice assets to build on as well.
Fans have it bad for DOlan and Dolan needs to have thick skin.
I promote patience with the any GM/President even in failure. When pressed they make mistakes.
Phil sucked, but maybe if he made a good deal for KP, we’d be further along? Perhaps.
I think Mills was phuched from day one and he did little to help himself.
Riles was coach and president for a long time in Miami. He build enough cred as a coach to get the gig. Others followed, but few were able to do duel role well. It was a great fad for a while. Bud had it in ATL, Stan Van Grundy in Detroit, Doc rivers, Isiah, and others.
If Leon is to succeed he has to deliver a tangible result inside of three years. If not fans will continue to punish Dolan and he will have to make another move to placate the fan base.
“Godfather” Riley build something special over a long time. We celebrate this unlikely trip to the finals but we can’t really say this is a model.
Leon will have his own path. I think Thibs was a good choice to install an urgency. Fish and Fiz were good ideas but we don’t have the patience for that.
Pat Riley is a genius. We as Knicks fans know he was phenomenal here. If Dolan gives him evenjust 1% ownership of MSG in 1995 the past 20 years are completely different
Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Miami has been doing the same thing basically for a very long time.
They struck gold with Wade had the assets to trade for Shaq
They draft bad as well. They drafted Beas........They did the Whiteside deal. Gave Juwan Howard a record deal only to have stern slap it down and penalize them. Did them a favor actually
Most years outside of the Heatles were hit and miss. Not taking anything away but their success is based on the consistent that is an owner who does not panic when Riles fucks up, and he has, and in turn lets them grow. Same thing with Spoelstra. He let him grow. Riles had the juice to keep a young Lebron from killing his coach and in turn It all worked out.
How long will it take here? I don’t know.
Toronto did a nice job with Masai but he also had some nice assets to build on as well.
Fans have it bad for DOlan and Dolan needs to have thick skin.
I promote patience with the any GM/President even in failure. When pressed they make mistakes.
Phil sucked, but maybe if he made a good deal for KP, we’d be further along? Perhaps.
I think Mills was phuched from day one and he did little to help himself.
Riles was coach and president for a long time in Miami. He build enough cred as a coach to get the gig. Others followed, but few were able to do duel role well. It was a great fad for a while. Bud had it in ATL, Stan Van Grundy in Detroit, Doc rivers, Isiah, and others.
If Leon is to succeed he has to deliver a tangible result inside of three years. If not fans will continue to punish Dolan and he will have to make another move to placate the fan base.
“Godfather” Riley build something special over a long time. We celebrate this unlikely trip to the finals but we can’t really say this is a model.
Leon will have his own path. I think Thibs was a good choice to install an urgency. Fish and Fiz were good ideas but we don’t have the patience for that.Pat Riley is a genius. We as Knicks fans know he was phenomenal here. If Dolan gives him evenjust 1% ownership of MSG in 1995 the past 20 years are completely different
True. Riley is a genius. But the Lakers seem to have a better model. As did Riley years back. Get the best players on the planet and you get a chip. As good as it was to see Miami excel with a lack of top names, they will still be forgotten with all the many other teams that did not have enough.
HofstraBBall wrote:Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Miami has been doing the same thing basically for a very long time.
They struck gold with Wade had the assets to trade for Shaq
They draft bad as well. They drafted Beas........They did the Whiteside deal. Gave Juwan Howard a record deal only to have stern slap it down and penalize them. Did them a favor actually
Most years outside of the Heatles were hit and miss. Not taking anything away but their success is based on the consistent that is an owner who does not panic when Riles fucks up, and he has, and in turn lets them grow. Same thing with Spoelstra. He let him grow. Riles had the juice to keep a young Lebron from killing his coach and in turn It all worked out.
How long will it take here? I don’t know.
Toronto did a nice job with Masai but he also had some nice assets to build on as well.
Fans have it bad for DOlan and Dolan needs to have thick skin.
I promote patience with the any GM/President even in failure. When pressed they make mistakes.
Phil sucked, but maybe if he made a good deal for KP, we’d be further along? Perhaps.
I think Mills was phuched from day one and he did little to help himself.
Riles was coach and president for a long time in Miami. He build enough cred as a coach to get the gig. Others followed, but few were able to do duel role well. It was a great fad for a while. Bud had it in ATL, Stan Van Grundy in Detroit, Doc rivers, Isiah, and others.
If Leon is to succeed he has to deliver a tangible result inside of three years. If not fans will continue to punish Dolan and he will have to make another move to placate the fan base.
“Godfather” Riley build something special over a long time. We celebrate this unlikely trip to the finals but we can’t really say this is a model.
Leon will have his own path. I think Thibs was a good choice to install an urgency. Fish and Fiz were good ideas but we don’t have the patience for that.Pat Riley is a genius. We as Knicks fans know he was phenomenal here. If Dolan gives him evenjust 1% ownership of MSG in 1995 the past 20 years are completely different
True. Riley is a genius. But the Lakers seem to have a better model. As did Riley years back. Get the best players on the planet and you get a chip. As good as it was to see Miami excel with a lack of top names, they will still be forgotten with all the many other teams that did not have enough.
It is amazing the Heat got this far. It will be very interesting to see how Riley and the Heat organization build upon it.
KnickDanger wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Miami has been doing the same thing basically for a very long time.
They struck gold with Wade had the assets to trade for Shaq
They draft bad as well. They drafted Beas........They did the Whiteside deal. Gave Juwan Howard a record deal only to have stern slap it down and penalize them. Did them a favor actually
Most years outside of the Heatles were hit and miss. Not taking anything away but their success is based on the consistent that is an owner who does not panic when Riles fucks up, and he has, and in turn lets them grow. Same thing with Spoelstra. He let him grow. Riles had the juice to keep a young Lebron from killing his coach and in turn It all worked out.
How long will it take here? I don’t know.
Toronto did a nice job with Masai but he also had some nice assets to build on as well.
Fans have it bad for DOlan and Dolan needs to have thick skin.
I promote patience with the any GM/President even in failure. When pressed they make mistakes.
Phil sucked, but maybe if he made a good deal for KP, we’d be further along? Perhaps.
I think Mills was phuched from day one and he did little to help himself.
Riles was coach and president for a long time in Miami. He build enough cred as a coach to get the gig. Others followed, but few were able to do duel role well. It was a great fad for a while. Bud had it in ATL, Stan Van Grundy in Detroit, Doc rivers, Isiah, and others.
If Leon is to succeed he has to deliver a tangible result inside of three years. If not fans will continue to punish Dolan and he will have to make another move to placate the fan base.
“Godfather” Riley build something special over a long time. We celebrate this unlikely trip to the finals but we can’t really say this is a model.
Leon will have his own path. I think Thibs was a good choice to install an urgency. Fish and Fiz were good ideas but we don’t have the patience for that.Pat Riley is a genius. We as Knicks fans know he was phenomenal here. If Dolan gives him evenjust 1% ownership of MSG in 1995 the past 20 years are completely different
True. Riley is a genius. But the Lakers seem to have a better model. As did Riley years back. Get the best players on the planet and you get a chip. As good as it was to see Miami excel with a lack of top names, they will still be forgotten with all the many other teams that did not have enough.
It is amazing the Heat got this far. It will be very interesting to see how Riley and the Heat organization build upon it.
Will not be surprised if they are once again the winners of a major Free agency sweepstakes.
HofstraBBall wrote:KnickDanger wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Philc1 wrote:Nalod wrote:Miami has been doing the same thing basically for a very long time.
They struck gold with Wade had the assets to trade for Shaq
They draft bad as well. They drafted Beas........They did the Whiteside deal. Gave Juwan Howard a record deal only to have stern slap it down and penalize them. Did them a favor actually
Most years outside of the Heatles were hit and miss. Not taking anything away but their success is based on the consistent that is an owner who does not panic when Riles fucks up, and he has, and in turn lets them grow. Same thing with Spoelstra. He let him grow. Riles had the juice to keep a young Lebron from killing his coach and in turn It all worked out.
How long will it take here? I don’t know.
Toronto did a nice job with Masai but he also had some nice assets to build on as well.
Fans have it bad for DOlan and Dolan needs to have thick skin.
I promote patience with the any GM/President even in failure. When pressed they make mistakes.
Phil sucked, but maybe if he made a good deal for KP, we’d be further along? Perhaps.
I think Mills was phuched from day one and he did little to help himself.
Riles was coach and president for a long time in Miami. He build enough cred as a coach to get the gig. Others followed, but few were able to do duel role well. It was a great fad for a while. Bud had it in ATL, Stan Van Grundy in Detroit, Doc rivers, Isiah, and others.
If Leon is to succeed he has to deliver a tangible result inside of three years. If not fans will continue to punish Dolan and he will have to make another move to placate the fan base.
“Godfather” Riley build something special over a long time. We celebrate this unlikely trip to the finals but we can’t really say this is a model.
Leon will have his own path. I think Thibs was a good choice to install an urgency. Fish and Fiz were good ideas but we don’t have the patience for that.Pat Riley is a genius. We as Knicks fans know he was phenomenal here. If Dolan gives him evenjust 1% ownership of MSG in 1995 the past 20 years are completely different
True. Riley is a genius. But the Lakers seem to have a better model. As did Riley years back. Get the best players on the planet and you get a chip. As good as it was to see Miami excel with a lack of top names, they will still be forgotten with all the many other teams that did not have enough.
It is amazing the Heat got this far. It will be very interesting to see how Riley and the Heat organization build upon it.
Will not be surprised if they are once again the winners of a major Free agency sweepstakes.
If Riley decides to build around Butler, given his track record, it's going to be very interesting to see how that bears upon what type of prizes Miami could actually go after in the sweepstakes.