He didn’t really give a lot of insight today imo. Kind of avoided some questions but I’m happy to have any Knicks content
Nalod@ 9/26/2020 10:23 AM
Love the smile when Berman comes on. They have some history.
Jimbo5@ 9/26/2020 9:42 PM
Is Thibs downplaying his opinion on Frank so as not to put too much pressure on him? I don't see too much love for frank. Right after the hire i thought Frank is the no brainer Thibs-type player in the current roster. Is Thibs distancing himself, setting up a future trade scenario involving Frank? I was hopeful that Thibs and Frank will hit it off. Not much news on that, im still hopeful.
unstopaball12@ 9/26/2020 11:52 PM
One good thing about this OTA bubble is that the new coaches can see the players first hand and get a better feel If they will fit or not moving forward. This should give us the best draft possible.
Tbh, the more I see videos of thibs guard play, the more I see him liking DSJ over Frank. He likes attacking scoring point guards(rose, agustin and Robinson in Chicago and trading rubio then signing Teague in minny.
I think if we keep Frank he will be used more as a utility player and needs to become more consistent with his corner 3s in order to flourish under thibs.
One last thing, what I like about this unique off-season is players will be developed the way our staff sees their roles next year. It will be easier to plug them and see their development when the sesson rolls on. I remember watching a podcast of arenas and he said the problem with players, they go to the off-season and train a certain way and when they get back to training camp, they are used a different way.
Jimbo5@ 9/28/2020 1:17 AM
It seems like the knicks are not set on drafting a PG, there were reports saying that the FO is seriously look at Isaac Okoro, but looking at the recent mock drafts, Okoro might be gone when the knicks is time to pick. What if the knicks pick Okongwu.
How realistic and workable is it to build a team with 5 good defensive guys and 5 good offensive players?
Defensive 5
C- Mitch PF- okongwu SF- iggy SG- RJ PG- Frank
Offensive 5
C- PF- Randle SF- knox SG- PG- DSJ
martin@ 9/28/2020 10:26 AM
Jimbo5 wrote:It seems like the knicks are not set on drafting a PG, there were reports saying that the FO is seriously look at Isaac Okoro, but looking at the recent mock drafts, Okoro might be gone when the knicks is time to pick. What if the knicks pick Okongwu.
How realistic and workable is it to build a team with 5 good defensive guys and 5 good offensive players?
Defensive 5
C- Mitch PF- okongwu SF- iggy SG- RJ PG- Frank
Offensive 5
C- PF- Randle SF- knox SG- PG- DSJ
If anywhere, Iggy should be on the Offensive 5 team
Chandler@ 9/28/2020 10:52 AM
Jimbo5 wrote:It seems like the knicks are not set on drafting a PG, there were reports saying that the FO is seriously look at Isaac Okoro, but looking at the recent mock drafts, Okoro might be gone when the knicks is time to pick. What if the knicks pick Okongwu.
How realistic and workable is it to build a team with 5 good defensive guys and 5 good offensive players?
Defensive 5
C- Mitch PF- okongwu SF- iggy SG- RJ PG- Frank
Offensive 5
C- PF- Randle SF- knox SG- PG- DSJ
offensive is a bit of a double entendre here
martin@ 9/28/2020 11:40 AM
Chandler wrote:
Jimbo5 wrote:It seems like the knicks are not set on drafting a PG, there were reports saying that the FO is seriously look at Isaac Okoro, but looking at the recent mock drafts, Okoro might be gone when the knicks is time to pick. What if the knicks pick Okongwu.
How realistic and workable is it to build a team with 5 good defensive guys and 5 good offensive players?
Defensive 5
C- Mitch PF- okongwu SF- iggy SG- RJ PG- Frank
Offensive 5
C- PF- Randle SF- knox SG- PG- DSJ
offensive is a bit of a double entendre here
haha
GustavBahler@ 9/28/2020 12:01 PM
unstopaball12 wrote:One good thing about this OTA bubble is that the new coaches can see the players first hand and get a better feel If they will fit or not moving forward. This should give us the best draft possible.
Tbh, the more I see videos of thibs guard play, the more I see him liking DSJ over Frank. He likes attacking scoring point guards(rose, agustin and Robinson in Chicago and trading rubio then signing Teague in minny.
I think if we keep Frank he will be used more as a utility player and needs to become more consistent with his corner 3s in order to flourish under thibs.
One last thing, what I like about this unique off-season is players will be developed the way our staff sees their roles next year. It will be easier to plug them and see their development when the sesson rolls on. I remember watching a podcast of arenas and he said the problem with players, they go to the off-season and train a certain way and when they get back to training camp, they are used a different way.
Agree. When Thibs was in Chicago, he used to have Rose flanked by teammates as he moved the ball upcourt to dish to, if he didnt have the lane. Made it easier for Rose to find a teammate.
Rose was, has been, a much better penetrator, over the years But I believe Smith jr has the ability to be a better distributor. DSJr can almost get to the rim at will. When he's feeling it. If Thibs can settle him down. Get DSJr to make better decisions. The front office wont have to sign an overpriced PG, or deplete the roster to trade for one. So lets hope it works.
I believe Thibs respects Frank, as a player, his character. All Frank needs is a little more offense, and he could be one of the most coveted role players in the league. Especially by contenders.
knicks1248@ 9/28/2020 4:33 PM
Best thibs quote
“Obviously, player development is critical,’’ Thibodeau said. “But also, you can’t lose sight of the team development. So it’s not only the challenge of the player bringing the best out of himself, but also how does he bring the best out of the team? And the team has to be very high. It’s got to be at the top of the checklist. Everyone has to sacrifice for the good of the team. Winning is the most important thing. That’s why you’re here.”
How do you develop players by tanking, the question i always pose to the FO
Two coaches that I admire greatly once said "you can NEVER EVER develop players in a losing environment" (Popovich, Belichick) because it takes much longer to get rid of bad habits then it is to learn winning habits.. When I look at Frank, Knox, Mitch, and DSJ, this is a perfect example.
If you think a couple of OTA's is going to change that
Nalod@ 9/28/2020 10:22 PM
Mitch basically came from high school but knox was out of KU with Cal, RJ a Duke with Coach K, frank was a big part of the team that went to the finals for his French team in Strasburg, and Dennis sort of did came in to a difficult situation at NC State. Its easy to say “We gotta win to win.....”. That PHil could bring that I had a lot to do with bringing in Fish. PHil won. Fish won but fish could not coach the triangle and PHil could not will it upon them. That shit was a religion with Tex Winter and Jordan ate it up. IN LA, he had a group in place to mold. Knicks were shyt and Melo was not having it. From there there was no alpha as Mills was not it. Kerr was the first choice and while He would have not survived his spinal issue he was the “teacher” who might have had a the leadership to at least start something. This current roster is the hangover from last season. Get thru the draft thru free agency it starts to come together. Trades? Move picks? I don’t know what is possible or the price that would be paid to get to respectable street. 1248 is correct but what’s the “Big Bang” that gets it going?
knicks1248@ 9/29/2020 7:33 AM
Young guys are should be learning how to win from vets, not just coaches
Knixkik@ 9/29/2020 10:30 AM
knicks1248 wrote:Best thibs quote
“Obviously, player development is critical,’’ Thibodeau said. “But also, you can’t lose sight of the team development. So it’s not only the challenge of the player bringing the best out of himself, but also how does he bring the best out of the team? And the team has to be very high. It’s got to be at the top of the checklist. Everyone has to sacrifice for the good of the team. Winning is the most important thing. That’s why you’re here.”
How do you develop players by tanking, the question i always pose to the FO
Two coaches that I admire greatly once said "you can NEVER EVER develop players in a losing environment" (Popovich, Belichick) because it takes much longer to get rid of bad habits then it is to learn winning habits.. When I look at Frank, Knox, Mitch, and DSJ, this is a perfect example.
If you think a couple of OTA's is going to change that
There will be no gap year this year. They will make moves for Chris Paul or FVV, and possibly Gallinari. And if they win 35-40 games for the next couple of years, they will rely on drafting like Miami (Herro at 13 and Bam at 14) to build up their foundation of young building blocks.
knicks1248@ 9/29/2020 10:44 AM
Knixkik wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Best thibs quote
“Obviously, player development is critical,’’ Thibodeau said. “But also, you can’t lose sight of the team development. So it’s not only the challenge of the player bringing the best out of himself, but also how does he bring the best out of the team? And the team has to be very high. It’s got to be at the top of the checklist. Everyone has to sacrifice for the good of the team. Winning is the most important thing. That’s why you’re here.”
How do you develop players by tanking, the question i always pose to the FO
Two coaches that I admire greatly once said "you can NEVER EVER develop players in a losing environment" (Popovich, Belichick) because it takes much longer to get rid of bad habits then it is to learn winning habits.. When I look at Frank, Knox, Mitch, and DSJ, this is a perfect example.
If you think a couple of OTA's is going to change that
There will be no gap year this year. They will make moves for Chris Paul or FVV, and possibly Gallinari. And if they win 35-40 games for the next couple of years, they will rely on drafting like Miami (Herro at 13 and Bam at 14) to build up their foundation of young building blocks.
So basically your saying the FO and coaching staff is only good enough to build a 35 to 40 win team.
What are you basing that on?
Nalod@ 9/29/2020 1:35 PM
knicks1248 wrote:Young guys are should be learning how to win from vets, not just coaches
Knicks have had vets the last few years. Look at each roster. Not “stars”. Leadership starts at the top. Dolan is not it. Phil and his rosters had vets. Melo, Joachim, DRose, etc etc. Fish himself was a leader who thought would translate to the bench. Etc etc.......... Its not from a lack of trying, its a lack of execution. Everything that has happened until now does not matter. What matters is going forward.
Knixkik@ 9/29/2020 2:11 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Best thibs quote
“Obviously, player development is critical,’’ Thibodeau said. “But also, you can’t lose sight of the team development. So it’s not only the challenge of the player bringing the best out of himself, but also how does he bring the best out of the team? And the team has to be very high. It’s got to be at the top of the checklist. Everyone has to sacrifice for the good of the team. Winning is the most important thing. That’s why you’re here.”
How do you develop players by tanking, the question i always pose to the FO
Two coaches that I admire greatly once said "you can NEVER EVER develop players in a losing environment" (Popovich, Belichick) because it takes much longer to get rid of bad habits then it is to learn winning habits.. When I look at Frank, Knox, Mitch, and DSJ, this is a perfect example.
If you think a couple of OTA's is going to change that
There will be no gap year this year. They will make moves for Chris Paul or FVV, and possibly Gallinari. And if they win 35-40 games for the next couple of years, they will rely on drafting like Miami (Herro at 13 and Bam at 14) to build up their foundation of young building blocks.
So basically your saying the FO and coaching staff is only good enough to build a 35 to 40 win team.
What are you basing that on?
I'm just guessing we get better in the next couple of years (let's say 35 wins next year and 40 the following year) without knowing who will be on our team. I don't see us transforming to a 50 win team right away, again without knowing who's on the team. Without knowing anything about our roster over the next couple years, what's a reasonable projection for you? You don't think 35-40 wins is fair?
knicks1248@ 9/29/2020 3:06 PM
Knixkik wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Best thibs quote
“Obviously, player development is critical,’’ Thibodeau said. “But also, you can’t lose sight of the team development. So it’s not only the challenge of the player bringing the best out of himself, but also how does he bring the best out of the team? And the team has to be very high. It’s got to be at the top of the checklist. Everyone has to sacrifice for the good of the team. Winning is the most important thing. That’s why you’re here.”
How do you develop players by tanking, the question i always pose to the FO
Two coaches that I admire greatly once said "you can NEVER EVER develop players in a losing environment" (Popovich, Belichick) because it takes much longer to get rid of bad habits then it is to learn winning habits.. When I look at Frank, Knox, Mitch, and DSJ, this is a perfect example.
If you think a couple of OTA's is going to change that
There will be no gap year this year. They will make moves for Chris Paul or FVV, and possibly Gallinari. And if they win 35-40 games for the next couple of years, they will rely on drafting like Miami (Herro at 13 and Bam at 14) to build up their foundation of young building blocks.
So basically your saying the FO and coaching staff is only good enough to build a 35 to 40 win team.
What are you basing that on?
I'm just guessing we get better in the next couple of years (let's say 35 wins next year and 40 the following year) without knowing who will be on our team. I don't see us transforming to a 50 win team right away, again without knowing who's on the team. Without knowing anything about our roster over the next couple years, what's a reasonable projection for you? You don't think 35-40 wins is fair?
42-46 wins should be the target next season, especially with the flexibility the knicks have. If you want to saddle the roster with young players trying to figure it out, then expect to win 30/35 games, but that amounts to a possible 50 losses, not good for development as we have witness over and over
Lock on to 3 Quality building blocks, surround them with Veterans who want to win and take winning seriously every single game. Thats what good teams do, thats how good development works.
We have too many young players that have too many question marks and are just not that good, to add 3 more to the list in a weak ass draft..is that the route your suggesting?
Knixkik@ 9/29/2020 3:23 PM
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Best thibs quote
“Obviously, player development is critical,’’ Thibodeau said. “But also, you can’t lose sight of the team development. So it’s not only the challenge of the player bringing the best out of himself, but also how does he bring the best out of the team? And the team has to be very high. It’s got to be at the top of the checklist. Everyone has to sacrifice for the good of the team. Winning is the most important thing. That’s why you’re here.”
How do you develop players by tanking, the question i always pose to the FO
Two coaches that I admire greatly once said "you can NEVER EVER develop players in a losing environment" (Popovich, Belichick) because it takes much longer to get rid of bad habits then it is to learn winning habits.. When I look at Frank, Knox, Mitch, and DSJ, this is a perfect example.
If you think a couple of OTA's is going to change that
There will be no gap year this year. They will make moves for Chris Paul or FVV, and possibly Gallinari. And if they win 35-40 games for the next couple of years, they will rely on drafting like Miami (Herro at 13 and Bam at 14) to build up their foundation of young building blocks.
So basically your saying the FO and coaching staff is only good enough to build a 35 to 40 win team.
What are you basing that on?
I'm just guessing we get better in the next couple of years (let's say 35 wins next year and 40 the following year) without knowing who will be on our team. I don't see us transforming to a 50 win team right away, again without knowing who's on the team. Without knowing anything about our roster over the next couple years, what's a reasonable projection for you? You don't think 35-40 wins is fair?
42-46 wins should be the target next season, especially with the flexibility the knicks have. If you want to saddle the roster with young players trying to figure it out, then expect to win 30/35 games, but that amounts to a possible 50 losses, not good for development as we have witness over and over
Lock on to 3 Quality building blocks, surround them with Veterans who want to win and take winning seriously every single game. Thats what good teams do, thats how good development works.
We have too many young players that have too many question marks and are just not that good, to add 3 more to the list in a weak ass draft..is that the route your suggesting?
That's exactly my plan. I believe if we lock into RJ, Mitch, and our 8th pick (Vassell?) than we have 3 major building blocks. Knox, Ntilikina, Smith, Brazdeikis, 27 and 38 are 6 other pieces who belong on the roster if none are moved, leaving 6 more spots on the open roster for vets. Randle (if he's not traded), Bullock, and Gibson I think are 3 relatively safe picks to come back as productive vets. So 3 more true difference making vets. Paul or FVV should be one. Then find 2 other guys on 1 year deals who can come in and fit better than most of last year's group. I don't think 42-46 wins is out of reach, but I think expecting to make the playoffs is premature until we really see who we add.
HofstraBBall@ 9/29/2020 4:26 PM
Day 5
"Randle is a Pro's Pro"
"He can do a lot of things well" (On RJ)
"He has played very well here. He has shot the ball very well" (On Knox)
knicks1248@ 9/29/2020 4:27 PM
Knixkik wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:
Knixkik wrote:
knicks1248 wrote:Best thibs quote
“Obviously, player development is critical,’’ Thibodeau said. “But also, you can’t lose sight of the team development. So it’s not only the challenge of the player bringing the best out of himself, but also how does he bring the best out of the team? And the team has to be very high. It’s got to be at the top of the checklist. Everyone has to sacrifice for the good of the team. Winning is the most important thing. That’s why you’re here.”
How do you develop players by tanking, the question i always pose to the FO
Two coaches that I admire greatly once said "you can NEVER EVER develop players in a losing environment" (Popovich, Belichick) because it takes much longer to get rid of bad habits then it is to learn winning habits.. When I look at Frank, Knox, Mitch, and DSJ, this is a perfect example.
If you think a couple of OTA's is going to change that
There will be no gap year this year. They will make moves for Chris Paul or FVV, and possibly Gallinari. And if they win 35-40 games for the next couple of years, they will rely on drafting like Miami (Herro at 13 and Bam at 14) to build up their foundation of young building blocks.
So basically your saying the FO and coaching staff is only good enough to build a 35 to 40 win team.
What are you basing that on?
I'm just guessing we get better in the next couple of years (let's say 35 wins next year and 40 the following year) without knowing who will be on our team. I don't see us transforming to a 50 win team right away, again without knowing who's on the team. Without knowing anything about our roster over the next couple years, what's a reasonable projection for you? You don't think 35-40 wins is fair?
42-46 wins should be the target next season, especially with the flexibility the knicks have. If you want to saddle the roster with young players trying to figure it out, then expect to win 30/35 games, but that amounts to a possible 50 losses, not good for development as we have witness over and over
Lock on to 3 Quality building blocks, surround them with Veterans who want to win and take winning seriously every single game. Thats what good teams do, thats how good development works.
We have too many young players that have too many question marks and are just not that good, to add 3 more to the list in a weak ass draft..is that the route your suggesting?
That's exactly my plan. I believe if we lock into RJ, Mitch, and our 8th pick (Vassell?) than we have 3 major building blocks. Knox, Ntilikina, Smith, Brazdeikis, 27 and 38 are 6 other pieces who belong on the roster if none are moved, leaving 6 more spots on the open roster for vets. Randle (if he's not traded), Bullock, and Gibson I think are 3 relatively safe picks to come back as productive vets. So 3 more true difference making vets. Paul or FVV should be one. Then find 2 other guys on 1 year deals who can come in and fit better than most of last year's group. I don't think 42-46 wins is out of reach, but I think expecting to make the playoffs is premature until we really see who we add.
One yr deals are the worst (IMO) because these are the type of players that don't really care. Just think about our previous one yr deals, none of them had a real impact, some played selfish, and none were resign the next season, which is why Mills put (player/team)options all all the players he signed last season
We definitely have to wait to see how the roster unfolds to make a honest prediction, but if you get guys that fit the system, the development is much easier than hanging on to guys who don't and hoping one day they do
