Knicks · Way Too Early 21/22 Roster Planning (page 1)

21/22 Under Contract

Quickley/Rivers
Barrett
Knox
Randle/Toppin
Robinson

Brazdeikus (team option)

72mm of cap space.
2 mid-first round picks.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-kni...

Thing is, this is the last year before Robinson and Randle start costing real money. To some extent, this cap space feels like it is a use it or lose it situation in 21/22.

Cap holds on Burks, Payton, Bullock and Noel are quite reasonable. Using a sign and trade for any acquisitions, they could go over the cap and keep these guys and probably still stay under the luxury tax.

There is probably a moment where you have to look at Kawhi Leonard and Jrue Holiday. Not a ton of other guys out there. Probably some room to make trades in FA as well, with all the draft picks stocked up.

Who do you believe in? After 7 games this season, what do you project your 21/22 roster to be. Assume the 1st rounders are 12 and 20 (solely a guess using today’s records for NY and Dallas.

We should resign Noel. Having two high level shot blockers gives us an advantage. Maybe Kawhi decides he wants to talk to the Knicks this time around. With what we have, plus the draft picks, we would probably be the best situation for him, especially if Quickley proves to be a starting caliber point guard.

EwingsGlass wrote:21/22 Under Contract

Quickley/Rivers
Barrett
Knox
Randle/Toppin
Robinson

Brazdeikus (team option)

72mm of cap space.
2 mid-first round picks.

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-kni...

Thing is, this is the last year before Robinson and Randle start costing real money. To some extent, this cap space feels like it is a use it or lose it situation in 21/22.

Cap holds on Burks, Payton, Bullock and Noel are quite reasonable. Using a sign and trade for any acquisitions, they could go over the cap and keep these guys and probably still stay under the luxury tax.

There is probably a moment where you have to look at Kawhi Leonard and Jrue Holiday. Not a ton of other guys out there. Probably some room to make trades in FA as well, with all the draft picks stocked up.

Who do you believe in? After 7 games this season, what do you project your 21/22 roster to be. Assume the 1st rounders are 12 and 20 (solely a guess using today’s records for NY and Dallas.

C Robinson
PF Randle
SF Barrett
SG Burks
PG Quickley

I'm resigning Burks for 1 year again but obviously he gets an increase. We can't lose a guy who brings shooting, playmaking and a good vet presence.

Rivers coming back on his team option is a no-brainer. And i'd like to see us use our 2 1st round picks on a wing that can shoot and a lead guard, both of which would come off the bench. Noel can be resigned too for 1 year as he is a solid insurance plan.

I don't really see any obvious free agents to sign that will be huge difference makers this upcoming summer. Lonzo Ball is always a possibility, but why pay him big money to play ahead of Quickley, Burks, Rivers, and 1st round picks? Would he be a big upgrade? I'm not sure.

Starters: Robinson, Randle, Barrett, Burks, Quickley

Rotation players: Toppin, Rivers, Knox, Noel, plus 1 first round pick (Moody, Bouknight, or Cam Thomas are 3 in the 10-15 range to keep an eye on that can shoot and make plays)

Remaining roster: the other 1st round pick (Jared Butler, Dosunmu, and Nix are 3 PGs to keep an eye on in the 15-22 range), 2 second round picks, Brazdeikis, and maybe 2 reclamation type or vet free agents (Snell, Monk, Valentine, Exum, Ish Smith, Lyles). All of these guys are either CAA clients, are kentucky guys, or have Utah ties.

So something like

C Robinson/Noel/Bassey (2nd round pick)
PF Randle/Toppin/Brazdeikis
SF Barrett/Knox/Snell
SG Burks/Moody (1st round pick)/Monk
PG Quickley/Rivers/Butler (1st round pick)

2-way player: Other 2nd round pick, and Harper

Knicks dont need to scrounge the scrap heap.

The have 5 FRPS in the next 3 years and a 1000 2nd rounders. They are in a GREAT shape to add good players via the draft. I expect them to focus on BPA like Miami or Tor does. Guys like Herro, Bam, Siakam, OG and FVV. Just load your roster up with guys who can play and get after it.

Give me 8-9 young athletic 2-way guys to go to war with under Thibs.

The long term fit of Randle Mitch and Barrett is one to think about because right now I think we definitely need more shooting to really improve us offensively.

TheGame wrote:We should resign Noel. Having two high level shot blockers gives us an advantage. Maybe Kawhi decides he wants to talk to the Knicks this time around. With what we have, plus the draft picks, we would probably be the best situation for him, especially if Quickley proves to be a starting caliber point guard.

I would think there’s a much higher probability that kawhi takes at least more of an interest this time around. Would he really leave LA though and playing alongside George etc?

I think at some point you need to start consolidating some of your assets into better players. You can't play 15 people, and you can't have 25 on the roster (with all the draft picks).
I agree it is always good to keep your draft picks for insurance and cheap production, but at some point you have start making 2-for-1 or 3-for-1 trades to get more power on the floor.
And luckily, since our roster is in good shape, not having to try to dump unreasonable contracts, we should be able to sit down at the table with other teams on a fair footing
instead of having to give up assets to rid ourselves of bad contracts -- meaning we should be able to trade reasonable contracts for reasonable contracts.

Panos wrote:I think at some point you need to start consolidating some of your assets into better players. You can't play 15 people, and you can't have 25 on the roster (with all the draft picks).
I agree it is always good to keep your draft picks for insurance and cheap production, but at some point you have start making 2-for-1 or 3-for-1 trades to get more power on the floor.
And luckily, since our roster is in good shape, not having to try to dump unreasonable contracts, we should be able to sit down at the table with other teams on a fair footing
instead of having to give up assets to rid ourselves of bad contracts -- meaning we should be able to trade reasonable contracts for reasonable contracts.

I keep looking up and down rosters wondering who the next guy to force a trade or become available and I am not sure I want much part in those deals.

Lilliard?
Gordan Hayward?
Olidipo?
Booker?
Kemba?
John Wall?
Westbrook?

There's just not a ton of choices that either make sense or are very desirable. Keep the picks and use this staff to keep developing guys. Things always change but we have a lot of flexibility and a legit prospect/rotation guy at every position with IQ/RJ/Knox/Obi/Mitch. Lets develop a squad that defends every night and build those guys up (until Booker demands a trader here)

Most likely we have pretty much the same roster next season with a couple changes (Frank, DSJ both gone and replaced with next year’s draft picks)

TheGame wrote:We should resign Noel. Having two high level shot blockers gives us an advantage. Maybe Kawhi decides he wants to talk to the Knicks this time around. With what we have, plus the draft picks, we would probably be the best situation for him, especially if Quickley proves to be a starting caliber point guard.

Kawhi is a west coast guy

A more realistic option is sign Andre Drummond and use Mitch, Randle, picks in a package to get James Harden or Giannis

We should also try to go hard after Dinwidde

fishmike wrote:Knicks dont need to scrounge the scrap heap.

The have 5 FRPS in the next 3 years and a 1000 2nd rounders. They are in a GREAT shape to add good players via the draft. I expect them to focus on BPA like Miami or Tor does. Guys like Herro, Bam, Siakam, OG and FVV. Just load your roster up with guys who can play and get after it.

Give me 8-9 young athletic 2-way guys to go to war with under Thibs.

There is an efficiency aspect to using cap space wisely to be able to go over the cap with quality players. If you trade Randle and Robinson, you can skip this 21/22 FA again, but to the extent that Robinson will earn quite a bit more than 1.9mm in 22/23, its a missed opportunity to fill in the roster while the young guys are still on their rookie contracts.

Said differently, the Knicks are playing with 50% less payroll than other "over the cap" teams, before even approaching the Vet Min discount players that boost teams from a value/dollar standpoint.

Philc1 wrote:

TheGame wrote:We should resign Noel. Having two high level shot blockers gives us an advantage. Maybe Kawhi decides he wants to talk to the Knicks this time around. With what we have, plus the draft picks, we would probably be the best situation for him, especially if Quickley proves to be a starting caliber point guard.

Kawhi is a west coast guy

A more realistic option is sign Andre Drummond and use Mitch, Randle, picks in a package to get James Harden or Giannis

We should also try to go hard after Dinwidde

Ew on both scenarios. Giannis ain't going anywhere soon, Harden will be traded within the year and no way the Knicks are going to trade for him. Dinwiddle? When he has an eFG% above 50%, let us know and then we can talk.

Next year's draft is heavy on wings and I think Knicks will hopefully get 2 top level guys

TPercy wrote:The long term fit of Randle Mitch and Barrett is one to think about because right now I think we definitely need more shooting to really improve us offensively.

As long as your backcourt has elite shooters it's fine. Quickley is a start. Burks is good too, but someone like Moody or Bouknight in the draft are both very good outside shooters. It's why with Quickley's proven shooting I can't imagine why he wasn't considered in the lottery.

Knixkik wrote:

TPercy wrote:The long term fit of Randle Mitch and Barrett is one to think about because right now I think we definitely need more shooting to really improve us offensively.

As long as your backcourt has elite shooters it's fine. Quickley is a start. Burks is good too, but someone like Moody or Bouknight in the draft are both very good outside shooters. It's why with Quickley's proven shooting I can't imagine why he wasn't considered in the lottery.

Questions about his ability to take the paint and finish at the NBA level. Still not sold on his ability to finish at the rim, but his floater game is special. As long as defenders have to respect his J, he'll be fine.

In today’s game there’s no Oakley, Mase or XMan to knock his ass down in the paint. I’ve see enough already to know that he can score at the rim. He will have to be respected opening the drive and dish.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

TPercy wrote:The long term fit of Randle Mitch and Barrett is one to think about because right now I think we definitely need more shooting to really improve us offensively.

As long as your backcourt has elite shooters it's fine. Quickley is a start. Burks is good too, but someone like Moody or Bouknight in the draft are both very good outside shooters. It's why with Quickley's proven shooting I can't imagine why he wasn't considered in the lottery.

Questions about his ability to take the paint and finish at the NBA level. Still not sold on his ability to finish at the rim, but his floater game is special. As long as defenders have to respect his J, he'll be fine.

Both those guys are going in the lottery..... Like I really would like the Knicks to make the jump next year.

I know winning now is great, but come playoff time you will all be like me saying damn I wish we could add some really good/cheap talent to this core before it took off and became great. Perrin better be working his ass off I guess.... but jeez imagine a Cade, green, or Suggs joining this team. We would be contenders in less than 2 years.

I mean that.... if you add a third high scoring piece to this team (even a late draft pick like Bouknight or Moody) in the draft and keep RJ/Randle/Mitch and that cheap duo of rivers/quick off the bench and then go and add more talent with that cap space.....

You’re light years ahead of the league......

Forget it. We are going from here. Time to pause on drooling over lottery picks. We have enough guards that can shoot or defend, a pair of rim blockers and wings that can slash. We have to imagine for now but imagine if Obi is a borderline all star talent. We are going to the playoffs boys and are going to make some noise there. It’s hard for us to think this way I know.

Dupe wrote:In today’s game there’s no Oakley, Mase or XMan to knock his ass down in the paint. I’ve see enough already to know that he can score at the rim. He will have to be respected opening the drive and dish.

No, but there are hyper athletic big man like Mitch and, I guess, Noel. Finishing is what seperates the guys from the elites. We'll see.

Dupe wrote:Forget it. We are going from here. Time to pause on drooling over lottery picks. We have enough guards that can shoot or defend, a pair of rim blockers and wings that can slash. We have to imagine for now but imagine if Obi is a borderline all star talent. We are going to the playoffs boys and are going to make some noise there. It’s hard for us to think this way I know.

You are saying this after 4 regular season wins....... a record of 4-3 in the regular season not a playoff series. This is absurd.......

We a year a way from getting right. Like legit getting right for the better part of a decade. We could be 16-14 at game 30 and you all would be talking ECF.....

Like legit we are in arguably the toughest division in the league and in the grand scheme of things only just got good about two weeks ago, but it’s forget adding draft talent we need to struggle to lose in the playin game..... which is a realistic approach this season.

I mean, if you added Bouknight and Kispert in the 21 draft, you look pretty solid.

Quickley/Rivers
Barrett/Burks/Bouknight
Knox/Bullock/Kispert
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/Noel

Biggest issue with this roster is that it must spend like 60mm on 3 roster spots.

EwingsGlass wrote:I mean, if you added Bouknight and Kispert in the 21 draft, you look pretty solid.

Quickley/Rivers
Barrett/Burks/Bouknight
Knox/Bullock/Kispert
Randle/Toppin
Robinson/Noel

Biggest issue with this roster is that it must spend like 60mm on 3 roster spots.

And that's the issue Randles deal could cause. I'm glad Randle is stepping up. But realistically, what's the ceiling if Randle is the best player on the team. Eighth seed? Is that where guys want to invest cap space? I'm all for the wait and see approach. Now is the time to start working out to be prepared for all the different scenarios, but we need to see how this team continues to roll before making any substantial plans.