Fuck it, I'm going with the guy who wants to be here and has the jersey on his back
One thing I forgot to mention is Randle's start to the season is somewhat reminiscent of Porzingis' start in 2017/18 which considering his age was probably the height of his career to this point.
When was the last time Porzingis played? Is he still in the league?
The thing is KP wanted to be here, but wanted to be in a winning environment with a franchise that had better direction even more.
As much as you like where you work, if the company has a high turnover and a dysfunctional management, your going to look for a new job
You think for one minute that if KP was here now he would be requesting a trade?
knicks1248 wrote:The thing is KP wanted to be here, but wanted to be in a winning environment with a franchise that had better direction even more.As much as you like where you work, if the company has a high turnover and a dysfunctional management, your going to look for job
You think for one minute that if KP was here now he would be requesting a trade?
Definitely not. Knicks needed to fail bad enough to get headed in the right direction and get the right people here. But Porzingis with injuries, his brother's menacing, his off the court issues of fights at a club and rape allegations, his growing ego, and his distancing from teammates, he became part of the problem it seems. A lot of the issues that are coming to a head with Harden in Houston were happening in NY with Porzingis, only worse when you consider he's not as good of a player and the injuries.
I was thinking about starting a KP trade reconsidered thread -- you know, "the worst trade ever." Of course the pants wetting and clowning were centered around that "all we got" was DSJ who does seem pretty awful, but was also the guy many of the same trade critics screamed we should have taken over Frank. But moving on from that.
Wasn't the cap room to sign Randle created by jettisoning KP? And since Randle's contract is roughly $10 million a year less, couldn't you argue that the cap space allowed us to also sign Marcus Morris Sr. who was flipped for the #1 that brought the much loved Immanuel Quickley? Or at least contributed the signings of other FAs which seem to be paying off this year? Happy to hear the arguments. Oh, and this is all before this year's unprotected #1 we got or the 2013 pick.
Lastly, despite my disdain for KP, I may have to rate him very slightly higher when he's healthy. So my answer is Randle all day. Bonus -- Randle doesn't seem to be a giant douche.
KnickDanger wrote:I was thinking about starting a KP trade reconsidered thread -- you know, "the worst trade ever." Of course the pants wetting and clowning were centered around that "all we got" was DSJ who does seem pretty awful, but was also the guy many of the same trade critics screamed we should have taken over Frank. But moving on from that.Wasn't the cap room to sign Randle created by jettisoning KP? And since Randle's contract is roughly $10 million a year less, couldn't you argue that the cap space allowed us to also sign Marcus Morris Sr. who was flipped for the #1 that brought the much loved Immanuel Quickley? Or at least contributed the signings of other FAs which seem to be paying off this year? Happy to hear the arguments. Oh, and this is all before this year's unprotected #1 we got or the 2013 pick.
Lastly, despite my disdain for KP, I may have to rate him very slightly higher when he's healthy. So my answer is Randle all day. Bonus -- Randle doesn't seem to be a giant douche.
You're absolutely right. You can argue that the trade led to Randle and Quickley, plus the 2 picks that still haven't been conveyed yet. When you think about it that way it's a good trade.
Knixkik wrote:KnickDanger wrote:I was thinking about starting a KP trade reconsidered thread -- you know, "the worst trade ever." Of course the pants wetting and clowning were centered around that "all we got" was DSJ who does seem pretty awful, but was also the guy many of the same trade critics screamed we should have taken over Frank. But moving on from that.Wasn't the cap room to sign Randle created by jettisoning KP? And since Randle's contract is roughly $10 million a year less, couldn't you argue that the cap space allowed us to also sign Marcus Morris Sr. who was flipped for the #1 that brought the much loved Immanuel Quickley? Or at least contributed the signings of other FAs which seem to be paying off this year? Happy to hear the arguments. Oh, and this is all before this year's unprotected #1 we got or the 2013 pick.
Lastly, despite my disdain for KP, I may have to rate him very slightly higher when he's healthy. So my answer is Randle all day. Bonus -- Randle doesn't seem to be a giant douche.
You're absolutely right. You can argue that the trade led to Randle and Quickley, plus the 2 picks that still haven't been conveyed yet. When you think about it that way it's a good trade.
The other major criticism has been that we didn't use the cap room for KD and Kyrie (who weren't coming here). Personally, I'd rather have Randle, IQ, Rivers, Burks, Noel, even Payton than those two cap choking divas. Just me.
KnickDanger wrote:I was thinking about starting a KP trade reconsidered thread -- you know, "the worst trade ever." Of course the pants wetting and clowning were centered around that "all we got" was DSJ who does seem pretty awful, but was also the guy many of the same trade critics screamed we should have taken over Frank. But moving on from that.Wasn't the cap room to sign Randle created by jettisoning KP? And since Randle's contract is roughly $10 million a year less, couldn't you argue that the cap space allowed us to also sign Marcus Morris Sr. who was flipped for the #1 that brought the much loved Immanuel Quickley? Or at least contributed the signings of other FAs which seem to be paying off this year? Happy to hear the arguments. Oh, and this is all before this year's unprotected #1 we got or the 2013 pick.
Lastly, despite my disdain for KP, I may have to rate him very slightly higher when he's healthy. So my answer is Randle all day. Bonus -- Randle doesn't seem to be a giant douche.
No, we can't do any of that because it doesn't fit the lol Knicks narrative.
Availability is the best ability.
Knixkik wrote:knicks1248 wrote:The thing is KP wanted to be here, but wanted to be in a winning environment with a franchise that had better direction even more.As much as you like where you work, if the company has a high turnover and a dysfunctional management, your going to look for job
You think for one minute that if KP was here now he would be requesting a trade?
Definitely not. Knicks needed to fail bad enough to get headed in the right direction and get the right people here. But Porzingis with injuries, his brother's menacing, his off the court issues of fights at a club and rape allegations, his growing ego, and his distancing from teammates, he became part of the problem it seems. A lot of the issues that are coming to a head with Harden in Houston were happening in NY with Porzingis, only worse when you consider he's not as good of a player and the injuries.
Why are we not hearing Nothing about that since he's been in Dallas. I can't remember a single Knick fan (other than myself and a couple others) that had any concerns about KP's injuries, and was flat out willing to give him the MAX despite his fatigue concerns and his injuries. Then he asked for a trade, and all of a sudden he's an ass hole, who's his injury prone
Even when his brother clearly stated a yr prior that they would not be signing any extension until they see progress, the knicks respond with a TANK mentality, and most knick fans thought that was tough talk and figure no rookie is going to turned down a max contract. I indicated KP was not no AAU player that grew up in a poor environment.
The Fans that blame kp for leaving more than they blame the front office for forcing his hand are ridiculous, because he was the 4th player that wanted out from under that regime that could attract a single all star in 7 yrs
knicks1248 wrote:Knixkik wrote:knicks1248 wrote:The thing is KP wanted to be here, but wanted to be in a winning environment with a franchise that had better direction even more.As much as you like where you work, if the company has a high turnover and a dysfunctional management, your going to look for job
You think for one minute that if KP was here now he would be requesting a trade?
Definitely not. Knicks needed to fail bad enough to get headed in the right direction and get the right people here. But Porzingis with injuries, his brother's menacing, his off the court issues of fights at a club and rape allegations, his growing ego, and his distancing from teammates, he became part of the problem it seems. A lot of the issues that are coming to a head with Harden in Houston were happening in NY with Porzingis, only worse when you consider he's not as good of a player and the injuries.
Why are we not hearing Nothing about that since he's been in Dallas. I can't remember a single Knick fan (other than myself and a couple others) that had any concerns about KP's injuries, and was flat out willing to give him the MAX despite his fatigue concerns and his injuries. Then he asked for a trade, and all of a sudden he's an ass hole, who's his injury prone
Even when his brother clearly stated a yr prior that they would not be signing any extension until they see progress, the knicks respond with a TANK mentality, and most knick fans thought that was tough talk and figure no rookie is going to turned down a max contract. I indicated KP was not no AAU player that grew up in a poor environment.
The Fans that blame kp for leaving more than they blame the front office for forcing his hand are ridiculous, because he was the 4th player that wanted out from under that regime that could attract a single all star in 7 yrs
A lot of false narratives here. You said you wouldn’t give KP max due to injury history true. But people were saying he would get max regardless. And guess what if he doesn’t demand a trade he gets max from the Knicks just like he did with Dallas. It wasn’t about that he wasn’t an injury concern. It was that whoever had him pretty much had no choice. KPs main beef with the Knicks was more due to the FO not immediately throwing the bag at him. And the fact that we were all clamoring for Zion who played PF and he didn’t really wanna play Center.
If we were a contender sure he may have been willing to make some sacrifices here and there other than money. But that wasn’t his sole motivation like you try to make it out. Knicks held 500. records twice with him for the first quarter of the season before he got “tired” or injured. And the Knicks whole plan to tank for Zion was due to him set to miss the whole season. And not making a lot of the dumb decisions giving away picks are jacking up the cap has lead to a better future this current moment. All while replacing KP with Randle and Toppin.
KP has the higher ceiling and when playing well his impact is deserving of unicorn, but he cant stay on the court and the baggage is real.
Its not an easy question. Randle is more important and his positive impact on the team and franchise is trending to a really positive one.
BUT
If I am envisioning a team that can win a title and beat a team like the Lakers or whoever who plays PF for that team? KP or Randle?
So for these Knicks I take Randle. He's the pony Thibs needs to ride and he's the right guy. They have done a great job getting Randle playing this way and he's effective. He's committed to defense and sharing the ball. Randle wins this round for sure 
knicks1248 wrote:Knixkik wrote:knicks1248 wrote:The thing is KP wanted to be here, but wanted to be in a winning environment with a franchise that had better direction even more.As much as you like where you work, if the company has a high turnover and a dysfunctional management, your going to look for job
You think for one minute that if KP was here now he would be requesting a trade?
Definitely not. Knicks needed to fail bad enough to get headed in the right direction and get the right people here. But Porzingis with injuries, his brother's menacing, his off the court issues of fights at a club and rape allegations, his growing ego, and his distancing from teammates, he became part of the problem it seems. A lot of the issues that are coming to a head with Harden in Houston were happening in NY with Porzingis, only worse when you consider he's not as good of a player and the injuries.
Why are we not hearing Nothing about that since he's been in Dallas. I can't remember a single Knick fan (other than myself and a couple others) that had any concerns about KP's injuries, and was flat out willing to give him the MAX despite his fatigue concerns and his injuries. Then he asked for a trade, and all of a sudden he's an ass hole, who's his injury prone
Even when his brother clearly stated a yr prior that they would not be signing any extension until they see progress, the knicks respond with a TANK mentality, and most knick fans thought that was tough talk and figure no rookie is going to turned down a max contract. I indicated KP was not no AAU player that grew up in a poor environment.
The Fans that blame kp for leaving more than they blame the front office for forcing his hand are ridiculous, because he was the 4th player that wanted out from under that regime that could attract a single all star in 7 yrs
I'm not sure that narrative is true. The stories that leaked out indicated KP and his brother are divas. Take a deep dive into KPs brother's social media and you'll see maybe he was up his own @$$. Also, you did hear rumblings of KP being frustrated with his role in Dallas behind Luka. Not saying the Knicks are blameless, but KP is no victim. Besides it's in the past. As for who's better right now, it's Randle by default since he can actually play. KP is clearly more talented on both side of the ball and should be a HOFer if he keeps working hard. But his unwillingness to pass and make plays for his teammates and his push back against playing center makes him tough to build a sustainable winning team around him. Teaming up with Fat Luka was an ideal scenario.
If anything we can now turn the page on the Porzingis chapter knowing that it has led to something better and has in a sense worked out in our favor to some extent.
Knixkik wrote:If anything we can now turn the page on the Porzingis chapter knowing that it has led to something better and has in a sense worked out in our favor to some extent.
its worked out. We used the cap space for Randle/Morris. Morris netted us a FRP who becomes IQ. We all love that move. Randle becomes a stud at PF and looks great playing next to Mitch.
We have a squad that Thibs can coach up and nice draft assets coming in.
Randle is head over heels better then kp
UltimateKnicks board is united!!!!
fishmike wrote:Knixkik wrote:If anything we can now turn the page on the Porzingis chapter knowing that it has led to something better and has in a sense worked out in our favor to some extent.
its worked out. We used the cap space for Randle/Morris. Morris netted us a FRP who becomes IQ. We all love that move. Randle becomes a stud at PF and looks great playing next to Mitch.We have a squad that Thibs can coach up and nice draft assets coming in.
Don’t forget the Dallas picks
