StarksEwing1 wrote:martin wrote:joec32033 wrote:martin wrote:
Mook trade. Version 2.
My guess is that they would trade both Rivers and Burks to a vet team if the right trade came up
Absolutely. Burks especially has value
Burks actually fills a legit need for this team with his three-point shooting. Rivers has become beyond redundant now.
MaTT4281 wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:MaTT4281 wrote:Sounds like it's done.I'm ok with this deal. Get DSJ out of here. Payton needs to go now.
Still dont like the move I feel it makes no sense for reasons I’ve stated earlier . If it was for another shooter I would be more ok with it but doesn’t matter now Thibs wants his guys. I’m just glad they weren’t dumb enough to trade the Detroit second rounder. Some journalists even suggested we might trade one of our guest founders. I understand the Ibicks have a bad history of reading pucks but I don’t think this FO is that dumb 😂
I don't think it's a move that needs to move the needle. It offers a little more flexibility with our guards, all while giving the coach the locker room he's looking for. I do hope this means the end to Elfrid (although I'm not confident that it does), but also hopes it means we can move one or two of our scoring wings (Burks, Bullock, Rivers) for our battle chest by the deadline.
If this means Quickley is riding pine and we're getting 40 minutes a night of Rose and Elf, I'll be pissed, but I see no reason to think that yet outside of those "same old Knicks" fans and media speculation.
. I pretty much Guarantee Rose is getting significant minutes. As for Payton I’m not sure. I doubt Thibs just casts him aside after playing him so much this year unless he is traded. I still don’t see much positives if any to do this trade. I guess at least it’s Charlottes second which should be in the mid 40’s but I felt there were better options
BigDaddyG wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:martin wrote:joec32033 wrote:martin wrote:
Mook trade. Version 2.
My guess is that they would trade both Rivers and Burks to a vet team if the right trade came up
Absolutely. Burks especially has value
Burks actually fills a legit need for this team with his three-point shooting. Rivers has become beyond redundant now.
I meant if we sell off at the deadline
Ok so this move only makes sense if he dosent play more than maybe 5-10 mins a game and everything comes out of rivers minutes. Yes it’s quite silly.
StarksEwing1 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:martin wrote:joec32033 wrote:martin wrote:
Mook trade. Version 2.
My guess is that they would trade both Rivers and Burks to a vet team if the right trade came up
Absolutely. Burks especially has value
Burks actually fills a legit need for this team with his three-point shooting. Rivers has become beyond redundant now.
I meant if we sell off at the deadline
I fear the Knicks will be buyers and there won't be any selling off at the deadline 
they'll be fighting to lose in the play-in game.
TPercy wrote:Ok so this move only makes sense if he dosent play more than maybe 5-10 mins a game and everything comes out of rivers minutes. Yes it’s quite silly.
He will play more than double that. Thibs pushed hard for this and they threw in a second rounder so he isn’t riding the pine for most of the game that’s for sure
BigDaddyG wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:martin wrote:joec32033 wrote:martin wrote:
Mook trade. Version 2.
My guess is that they would trade both Rivers and Burks to a vet team if the right trade came up
Absolutely. Burks especially has value
Burks actually fills a legit need for this team with his three-point shooting. Rivers has become beyond redundant now.
I meant if we sell off at the deadline
I fear the Knicks will be buyers and there won't be any selling off at the deadline they'll be fighting to lose in the play-in game.
You may be right. I still believe the future is the people Which is why the Rose trade makes no sense. The need to see who they will go with going forward and see if they could get some more assets for those who they want to move on from
Rose stinks. What the hell
joec32033 wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:TPercy wrote:Great!
no not great. We are giving up draft picks. If The Knicks gave Detroit their second back they got fleeced
Wow. Trade a young kid after one bad year for a 32 year old with history of knee problems. Plus we give up draft picks? First old school Knick move from Rose. It must be the water at the Garden.
I’d certainly wait for the deal to be finalized before criticizing Rose. Not a fan of “draft compensation” here.
Only thing I don’t like is the uncertainty it puts on IQs declining minutes. Could really use a SF.
True but any draft compensation is a waste for an aging back up. Totally agree about a SF. That was one of my points. Trading due to a log jam is fine. Smith was odd man out and did not have a good span here. But why trade him for yet another PG to keep the log jam going?
Exactly how many young players can one team have? You can not develop 15 young players. Not saying that this was the right trade, but 4 picks in 1 draft is a lot. If we're an older team, I would say keep them but we are so young already, I don't see the harm other than you could have possibly used the pick to trade for a better fitting vet later. Maybe.
Disagree. With the uncertainty of the draft, its always the more the better. After all it is a crap shoot. Would much rather have another chance at getting another IQ than adding an aged PG that we have already seen before.
HofstraBBall wrote:joec32033 wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:TPercy wrote:Great!
no not great. We are giving up draft picks. If The Knicks gave Detroit their second back they got fleeced
Wow. Trade a young kid after one bad year for a 32 year old with history of knee problems. Plus we give up draft picks? First old school Knick move from Rose. It must be the water at the Garden.
I’d certainly wait for the deal to be finalized before criticizing Rose. Not a fan of “draft compensation” here.
Only thing I don’t like is the uncertainty it puts on IQs declining minutes. Could really use a SF.
True but any draft compensation is a waste for an aging back up. Totally agree about a SF. That was one of my points. Trading due to a log jam is fine. Smith was odd man out and did not have a good span here. But why trade him for yet another PG to keep the log jam going?
Exactly how many young players can one team have? You can not develop 15 young players. Not saying that this was the right trade, but 4 picks in 1 draft is a lot. If we're an older team, I would say keep them but we are so young already, I don't see the harm other than you could have possibly used the pick to trade for a better fitting vet later. Maybe.
Disagree. With the uncertainty of the draft, its always the more the better. After all it is a crap shoot. Would much rater have another chance at getting another IQ than adding an aged PG that we have already seen before.
Exactly. The more draft picks you have the better chance you have to hit on a player. Plus rookie scale contracts is very important in a cap league
The trade for Rose might be a covert tank move. We are still the dumbest club in the league, though.
HofstraBBall wrote:joec32033 wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:StarksEwing1 wrote:TPercy wrote:Great!
no not great. We are giving up draft picks. If The Knicks gave Detroit their second back they got fleeced
Wow. Trade a young kid after one bad year for a 32 year old with history of knee problems. Plus we give up draft picks? First old school Knick move from Rose. It must be the water at the Garden.
I’d certainly wait for the deal to be finalized before criticizing Rose. Not a fan of “draft compensation” here.
Only thing I don’t like is the uncertainty it puts on IQs declining minutes. Could really use a SF.
True but any draft compensation is a waste for an aging back up. Totally agree about a SF. That was one of my points. Trading due to a log jam is fine. Smith was odd man out and did not have a good span here. But why trade him for yet another PG to keep the log jam going?
Exactly how many young players can one team have? You can not develop 15 young players. Not saying that this was the right trade, but 4 picks in 1 draft is a lot. If we're an older team, I would say keep them but we are so young already, I don't see the harm other than you could have possibly used the pick to trade for a better fitting vet later. Maybe.
Disagree. With the uncertainty of the draft, its always the more the better. After all it is a crap shoot. Would much rather have another chance at getting another IQ than adding an aged PG that we have already seen before.
To a degree I don't disagree, but I don't think you can fill 15 spots with youth and expect to develop it all to it's fullest potential.
joec32033 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Things were looking up for the Knicks, and the Rose for Rolo trade started the downward spiral. I dont get the FO amnesia
Different front office. Different coach. Different set of circumstances. Each situation is mutually exclusive.
Rose wrecked team chemistry. The idea is to avoid the mistakes of previous regimes.
GustavBahler wrote:joec32033 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Things were looking up for the Knicks, and the Rose for Rolo trade started the downward spiral. I dont get the FO amnesia
Different front office. Different coach. Different set of circumstances. Each situation is mutually exclusive.
Rose wrecked team chemistry. The idea is to avoid the mistakes of previous regimes.
Did he wreck Detroit's chemistry? Minnesota? Is it just an NY thing? Do you not think the actual makeup of the front office at the time was a contributing factor? Rose is a FA at the end of the year to boot.
Fuck you NY Knicks. Period no questions asked.
Stupid trade, usual franchise move. Why give up anything for this guy. He sucked when we had him, how sucks now. Unless you are rerouting him I don’t get the stupidity of this move.
The time machine just pulled back into the station. Who is he better than. Thibs, this is pathetic.
Gibson more minutes than Toppin? Guy can’t help himself. Stop the stupid shit.
Let’s win some games so we miss out on Steph Curry.
martin wrote:Knicksfan wrote:martin wrote:My thought is Rose is added to help IQ to learn the game. Rivers is a secondary ball handler with IQ and just get guys involved.
Maybe this will also help Obi and that unit
I’d love to think this way.
Yet the way Thibs coaches, the way he has used Quickley lately and the way he uses veterans tells me this is to use Rose as much as he wants.
Knicks playing best defense in league, overachieving with wins, and IQ is the surprise rookie this year playing 19 minutes a game.
Guess we got to complain about something.... that hasn’t even happened
Nah, not complaining to just complain. I’ve stated the reasons I’m very impressed with Thibs and our competence is all his doing. But that won’t stop me from calling out situations and patters that I don’t like. The Knox and Frank situation is really suspicious and negative for the team’s future and when you consider Thibs history with young players, it makes sense. Quick has been a great surprise, but he has had his minutes reduced lately and seems to have no margin for error out there, which sucks when you see Payton struggling yet remaining on the floor. But that is moot point as now will be the moment of truth for Thibs. With Rose, Payton and Quick, we’ll see if he keeps giving IQ consistent minutes, but his track record speaks otherwise.
Oh, and for all the kudos he deserves for those 11 wins, he has really walked himself out of more wins with his substitutions. Trusting your team enough to give other players more minutes it’s not just about developing players, but about giving fair rest to the players you rely in the most. Another track record issue from Thibs that has to be mentioned.
So while I love this competitive team, I’m not gonna just sing him praises when I see things that are fishy to me.
Rose is going to help more than NOT, your complaining about Payton can't finish around the rim.
Knicksfan wrote:martin wrote:Knicksfan wrote:martin wrote:My thought is Rose is added to help IQ to learn the game. Rivers is a secondary ball handler with IQ and just get guys involved.
Maybe this will also help Obi and that unit
I’d love to think this way.
Yet the way Thibs coaches, the way he has used Quickley lately and the way he uses veterans tells me this is to use Rose as much as he wants.
Knicks playing best defense in league, overachieving with wins, and IQ is the surprise rookie this year playing 19 minutes a game.
Guess we got to complain about something.... that hasn’t even happened
Nah, not complaining to just complain. I’ve stated the reasons I’m very impressed with Thibs and our competence is all his doing. But that won’t stop me from calling out situations and patters that I don’t like. The Knox and Frank situation is really suspicious and negative for the team’s future and when you consider Thibs history with young players, it makes sense. Quick has been a great surprise, but he has had his minutes reduced lately and seems to have no margin for error out there, which sucks when you see Payton struggling yet remaining on the floor. But that is moot point as now will be the moment of truth for Thibs. With Rose, Payton and Quick, we’ll see if he keeps giving IQ consistent minutes, but his track record speaks otherwise.
Oh, and for all the kudos he deserves for those 11 wins, he has really walked himself out of more wins with his substitutions. Trusting your team enough to give other players more minutes it’s not just about developing players, but about giving fair rest to the players you rely in the most. Another track record issue from Thibs that has to be mentioned.
So while I love this competitive team, I’m not gonna just sing him praises when I see things that are fishy to me.
This is where I am also. I’m looking for reasons in Elf’s play and his defense has been solid. Not sure if IQ is missing rotations or something, but it’s hard to tell the minute allocation except based on years of experience.
joec32033 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:joec32033 wrote:GustavBahler wrote:Things were looking up for the Knicks, and the Rose for Rolo trade started the downward spiral. I dont get the FO amnesia
Different front office. Different coach. Different set of circumstances. Each situation is mutually exclusive.
Rose wrecked team chemistry. The idea is to avoid the mistakes of previous regimes.
Did he wreck Detroit's chemistry? Minnesota? Is it just an NY thing? Do you not think the actual makeup of the front office at the time was a contributing factor? Rose is a FA at the end of the year to boot.
Did he move the needle? No. Thibs will give Rose carte blanche, and he will spend most of that time calling his own number. Rose always has and always will be a shoot first PG. Hope he stays on the bench.
Knicksfan wrote:martin wrote:Knicksfan wrote:martin wrote:My thought is Rose is added to help IQ to learn the game. Rivers is a secondary ball handler with IQ and just get guys involved.
Maybe this will also help Obi and that unit
I’d love to think this way.
Yet the way Thibs coaches, the way he has used Quickley lately and the way he uses veterans tells me this is to use Rose as much as he wants.
Knicks playing best defense in league, overachieving with wins, and IQ is the surprise rookie this year playing 19 minutes a game.
Guess we got to complain about something.... that hasn’t even happened
Nah, not complaining to just complain. I’ve stated the reasons I’m very impressed with Thibs and our competence is all his doing. But that won’t stop me from calling out situations and patters that I don’t like. The Knox and Frank situation is really suspicious and negative for the team’s future and when you consider Thibs history with young players, it makes sense. Quick has been a great surprise, but he has had his minutes reduced latelyand seems to have no margin for error out there, which sucks when you see Payton struggling yet remaining on the floor. But that is moot point as now will be the moment of truth for Thibs. With Rose, Payton and Quick, we’ll see if he keeps giving IQ consistent minutes, but his track record speaks otherwise.
Oh, and for all the kudos he deserves for those 11 wins, he has really walked himself out of more wins with his substitutions. Trusting your team enough to give other players more minutes it’s not just about developing players, but about giving fair rest to the players you rely in the most. Another track record issue from Thibs that has to be mentioned.
So while I love this competitive team, I’m not gonna just sing him praises when I see things that are fishy to me.
That literally is not happening. Go look it up.
